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15:00:49 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-wot-discovery-irc
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15:01:25 <kaz> Meeting: WoT Discovery
15:01:30 <kaz> chair: McCool
15:02:16 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Christian_Glomb, Farshid_Tavakolizadeh, Kunihiko_Toumura
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15:03:29 <kaz> present+ Philipp_Blum
15:04:09 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
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15:06:21 <kaz> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Discovery_WebConf#22_February_2021
15:07:09 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot-discovery
15:07:11 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:07:25 <cris_> topic: minutes
15:07:28 <kaz> present+ Andrea_Cimmino
15:07:36 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2021/02/15-wot-discovery-minutes.html Feb-15
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15:07:44 <kaz> i/minutes/scribenick: cris_/
15:07:49 <cris_> mc: We discussed the F2F, today we'll review it again
15:08:02 <cris_> ... pr 115 is ready.
15:08:54 <cris_> ... we need to discuss how to filter self-discovered TD. In other words how we can select pieces or the self-exposed TD
15:10:00 <cris_> ... We also discussed about error responses. I reported back to TD taskforce and we concluded that the additionalResponses needs a mechanisms to state a dataschema
15:11:18 <cris_> ... I've found a possible typo in the name, michael. Plus I am not sure if it refers to Koster or to my self
15:11:31 <cris_> kaz: it should be him
15:11:45 <cris_> mc: to the scribers please use the surname
15:12:21 <cris_> kaz: Well, just checked. Last time Koster was not in the call
15:12:38 <cris_> philipp: I recall that he joined later
15:13:16 <cris_> kaz: not sure..
15:13:27 <cris_> mc: let's assume it was me
15:14:18 <cris_> mc: I'm finding more typos in names.
15:14:39 <cris_> kaz: fixed
15:16:47 <cris_> mc: any other major problems?
15:17:04 <cris_> ... ok, any objection for publishing these?
15:17:12 <cris_> ... ok approved.
15:17:17 <cris_> mc: any updates?
15:17:26 <cris_> topic: F2F logistics
15:17:49 <cris_> s/F2F logistics/logistics/
15:18:36 <cris_> mc: we have a lot of work to do for the F2F, so it might be worth to have the call even during the PlugFest
15:19:31 <cris_> ... if we end close the discussion today for pagination we could skip it
15:20:25 <cris_> ... however I don't think the PR is properly ready. We'll need an hour during the PlugFest. Any objection?
15:20:38 <cris_> ... ok then we'll have 1h meeting during the plug fest
15:20:50 <cris_> topic: F2F topics
15:22:02 <cris_> mc: currently we have a 3 hours section
15:22:19 <cris_> ... we should assing people to different topics
15:22:46 <cris_> ... I can go with the open issues
15:23:26 <cris_> ... any volunteers for other parts
15:23:36 <cris_> farshid: I can handle directory
15:24:07 <cris_> andrea: I can do SPARQL section, but I have to know when I am scheduled
15:24:28 <cris_> ... what time?
15:24:35 <cris_> mc: we don't have a date
15:25:13 <cris_> andrea: after 6 pm I can't join
15:25:56 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_March_2021#Time_table_2 time table for the March vF2F
15:26:04 <cris_> mc: what about 30 minutes for Query and Filters
15:26:15 <cris_> andrea: ok
15:26:56 <cris_> mc: examples would be nice to have in query and filters section
15:27:29 <cris_> ... introduction can be 20 min
15:28:31 <cris_> mc: Toumura-san could you volunteer for the introduction
15:28:36 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:28:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:28:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz
15:29:06 <cris_> toumura: there's no much to say in respect to what was already presented last time
15:29:22 <cris_> mc: you could also do some general discovery introduction
15:29:30 <cris_> toumura: ok
15:30:17 <cris_> mc: about self-description Farshid please can you do this?
15:30:19 <kaz> s/assing/assign/
15:30:26 <cris_> farshid: ok
15:31:26 <cris_> mc: which day is better ? any preference?
15:31:33 <cris_> ... monday is taken
15:32:01 <kaz> s/monday/Monday, March 15/
15:32:11 <cris_> ... I'd prefer not to do it on the last day
15:32:30 <cris_> ... What about the 22?
15:32:45 <cris_> andrea: I'd be better the 18th
15:32:51 <cris_> mc: ok noted
15:33:24 <cris_> mc: ah the 18th has only two hours spare slots
15:33:36 <cris_> ... let's go for the 17th
15:35:02 <cris_> ... any other logistic issues?
15:35:32 <cris_> ... ok so by March 8 we should be ready for the presentation
15:35:40 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_March_2021#Wednesday_March_17
15:35:53 <cris_> topic: PRs
15:36:07 <kaz> s/March_17/March_17 17 March 2021 will be the Discovery day/
15:36:37 <cris_> mc: we have a small editorial pr
15:36:47 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/121
15:37:11 <kaz> present+ Jack_Dickinson
15:37:12 <cris_> toumura: is related to issue 120
15:37:28 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
15:38:07 <cris_> ... the issue raised some concerns about the usage of the links in introduction mechanism
15:38:19 <kaz> s/121/121 PR 121 - Type correction in Section 5.4, and some editorial fixes/
15:38:21 <cris_> mc: (reading the issue)
15:38:33 <cris_> ... we don't want to submit all our resources in a TDD
15:38:58 <cris_> ... or on the network. We should first check if it safe
15:39:17 <kaz> i|reading|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/120 Issue 120 - RD usage (endpoint vs. resource)|a
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15:39:47 <cris_> ... so the only change is a minor name refactor
15:39:47 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
15:39:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:39:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz
15:40:11 <cris_> mc: also I think it's dangerous to publish metadata in mDNS
15:40:40 <cris_> ... attackers could infer some personal information for these metedata
15:41:08 <cris_> ... any other comments on the issue?
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15:43:26 <cris_> mc: noticed a minor grammar issue
15:44:05 <citrullin> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-resource-directory-26
15:46:21 <cris_> discussion about the correct link to JSONPath specification and CoRE
15:46:50 <cris_> mc: I am ok merging this PR.
15:47:24 <cris_> toumura: I also added an assertion
15:47:55 <cris_> mc: we have _wot-servient
15:48:07 <cris_> toumura: it's just an implementation example
15:48:09 <cris_> mc: ok
15:50:47 <cris_> ... there's still some minor issues. we can merge it and do a later fix
15:51:14 <cris_> mc: any objections?
15:51:48 <cris_> ... I'll fix the issue right after merging it
15:56:24 <cris_> ... ok fixed any objections for merging it?
15:56:27 <cris_> mc: ok done
15:56:51 <cris_> mc: (closing also issue 120)
15:57:28 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/121 PR 121
15:57:34 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/120 Issue 120
15:57:42 <cris_> mc: I'm going to skip 114 is still a wip
15:57:54 <cris_> mc: let's go to 113
15:58:03 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/113 PR 113
15:58:30 <kaz> s/PR 113/PR 113 - Security and Privacy Considerations/
15:59:15 <cris_> mc: we discussed a lot about the security. This pr tries to capture the topics even if some of those were moved to other documents since they were more open ended
15:59:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz
16:00:13 <cris_> ... they issue with privacy arise only when there's personal information embedded or inferred in TDs/TDDs
16:00:20 <kaz> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/mmccool/wot-discovery/pull/113.html#security-considerations Preview - 7. Security and Privacy Considerations
16:00:53 <glomb> Ok
16:01:29 <glomb> Question: Who own things, who consumes things, who operates directory.
16:01:49 <kaz> s/topic: PRs/topic: PR 121/
16:02:17 <kaz> i/I'm going to skip/topic: PR 113/
16:02:23 <glomb> Or: who makes things available for other?
16:02:56 <kaz> i/Ok/scribenick: glomb/
16:03:05 <glomb> Denial of service relevant only in certain scenarios
16:03:35 <kaz> s/Ok/McCool explains the PR based on the preview/
16:03:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz
16:03:56 <glomb> Location tracking: trap locations even if there is no specific location information since directory is responsible for only a certain area
16:04:29 <glomb> Even "more interesting" if geo-location info is present
16:05:10 <glomb> TD timing out might mean that "I'm not at home"
16:06:05 <glomb> More at section 7.2
16:07:00 <glomb> TD update time ...
16:07:19 <glomb> Explicit location info ...
16:09:24 <glomb> Nicely written "side-band" info, not normative.
16:10:24 <glomb> See McCools comments in issue
16:10:35 <glomb> PR not issue
16:10:37 <kaz> q+
16:11:46 <glomb> Query injection issues might be treated normatively
16:12:32 <glomb> Kaz: we need not have some concrete mitigations for security / privacy issues
16:13:20 <glomb> McCool: should be inherent (to some extend)
16:14:18 <glomb> E.g. in JSONpath spec
16:15:08 <glomb> Kaz: really need to ready for sec / priv discussions
16:15:28 <glomb> McCool: mention risk and point to normative mitigation
16:15:30 <kaz> s|we need not have|having an informative security/privacy section is OK but we need to clarify|
16:16:07 <kaz> s/discussions/wide reviews before reaching the REC/
16:16:47 <glomb> PR #113 merged
16:18:46 <glomb> Pagination: https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/16
16:20:04 <glomb> Format on response?
16:20:09 <glomb> on -> of
16:22:59 <glomb> How does the container look like?
16:23:17 <glomb> ID inside TD is optional
16:24:36 <glomb> Outside ID generated by directory not necessarily identical with inside ID
16:25:33 <glomb> How are TDs returned by server?
16:26:50 <glomb> ID might be random and changing over time?
16:26:56 <kaz> i/Patination/topic: Issue 16 - Handle huge set of Thing Descriptions (pagination, streaming, etc.)/
16:27:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:27:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz
16:27:52 <kaz> q+
16:29:06 <glomb> Extension of discovery context instead of TD context
16:30:04 <glomb> Farshid: two proposals, w/ and wo/ HTTP headers
16:31:01 <glomb> McCool: problem that this is HTTP specific
16:31:16 <glomb> Farshid: other things are too
16:32:35 <glomb> McCool comments his thoughts in issue
16:35:11 <glomb> Also summary of proposal / issues there
16:36:51 <glomb> Main issue: response might not be a TD
16:39:38 <glomb> Array vs. object
16:40:03 <glomb> Kaz: Likes to see use cases
16:42:15 <glomb> Kaz: Want to handle pagination / border of pagination / chunks
16:42:44 <glomb> McCool - wants examples
16:43:33 <kaz> ack k
16:43:46 <kaz> s/Likes to/would like to/
16:45:11 <glomb> Contradiction w/ enriched TDs
16:45:18 <kaz> s|Want to handle pagination / border of patination / chunks|for example, if we want to handle pagination of the resulted data, we need to handle the "border of the pages" and how to define the minium chunks for the pagination or streaming|
16:45:41 <glomb> Query one TD vs query multiple TDs
16:46:21 <glomb> McCool: Might want to have responses w/ non-enriched TDs
16:46:54 <glomb> Per TD metadata?
16:47:36 <glomb> Challenge w/ signatures
16:48:04 <kaz> q+
16:51:49 <glomb> Local ID vs. ID inside TD
16:52:32 <glomb> Please also see "Concerns" in issue comment
16:52:53 <glomb> McCool: Should rule out what is not possible / feasible
16:54:50 <glomb> McCool: Object cannot guarantee order
16:56:00 <glomb> Embed TDs vs Linking TDs
16:56:34 <kaz> ack k
16:56:57 <kaz> kaz: let's clarify our scope for the current Charter period :)
16:59:34 <glomb> McCool: Let's look at other APIs
16:59:57 <glomb> Farshid: Have already done this (see link inside issue)
17:01:05 <glomb> Use of arrays seems to be quite common.
17:04:15 <kaz> [adjourned]
17:04:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz
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