14:33:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #personalization
14:33:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-irc
14:33:44 <Sharon> zakim, start meeting
14:33:44 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:33:45 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Sharon
14:34:00 <Sharon> agenda?
14:34:10 <Sharon> chair: Sharon
14:36:03 <Sharon> agenda+ Draft response to I18N issue 145 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/145
14:37:33 <Sharon> agenda+ Research rel versus action and destination https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/78
14:38:16 <Sharon> agenda+ Research token list and draft a definition for our spec https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/79
14:39:31 <Sharon> agenda+ Clean up IRC action items https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/open
14:40:12 <Sharon> agenda+ Review Action items wiki - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions
14:40:52 <Sharon> agenda+ Recruiting
14:54:18 <janina> janina has joined #personalization
14:58:28 <Roy> Roy has joined #personalization
15:01:18 <becky> becky has joined #personalization
15:01:27 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #personalization
15:01:49 <JF> JF has joined #personalization
15:01:54 <JF> Present+
15:02:05 <Roy> Present+
15:02:20 <janina> present+
15:02:26 <LionelW> LionelW has joined #personalization
15:02:40 <CharlesL> present+
15:02:51 <LionelW> present+
15:02:51 <becky> present+
15:02:59 <LionelW> scribe: Lionel
15:03:14 <CharlesL> scribe: LionelW
15:03:44 <LionelW> scribe: LionelW
15:03:49 <JF> agenda?
15:04:57 <CharlesL> zakim, take up next item
15:04:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Draft response to I18N issue 145 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/145 -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:07:47 <LionelW> John: We discussed multip[le values, and their seperators
15:08:11 <LionelW> ... and an issue regarding conjugated terms, where a 'plus' and a 'space' are involved
15:09:16 <LionelW> Lisa: There was a discussion of the HTML reference. Issue 145.
15:10:32 <LionelW> Becky the case: a symbol, a conjugated symbol, then another symbol [symbol symbol + SPACE symbol]
15:10:54 <LionelW> JF: By listing multiple numeric values it returns a phrase
15:11:06 <LionelW> ... this spacing can throw off the system
15:11:16 <LionelW> janina: hard space vs soft space?
15:11:39 <LionelW> LisaSeemanKest: We said language and directional metadata should be the default of how you parse.
15:11:48 <CharlesL> The above discussion is referring to Agenda 3 token lists
15:12:16 <LionelW> ... say a plus sign means conjugation (you +male, you +female)
15:12:35 <LionelW> ... we are not testing translation across languages
15:12:49 <JF> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/index.html#symbol-example
15:13:31 <LionelW> JF: Example 12, <span data-symbol="13621 12324 17511">cup of Tea</span>
15:13:40 <CharlesL> q+
15:14:05 <LionelW> ...  The / + / is used to join the conjugated values, "her" (14707) and "name" (15691).
15:14:11 <LionelW> ... <img src="her-name.png" alt="שמה" data-symbol="15691 + 14707"/>
15:14:47 <Sharon> ack CharlesL
15:14:47 <LionelW> CharlesL: All of this is in reference to Agenda item #3
15:15:32 <LionelW> JF: The space around the joiner is the cause of the problem, before and after the +
15:15:42 <becky> q+
15:15:44 <JF> 15691 + 14707  versus 15691+14707
15:15:50 <LisaSeemanKest> +1
15:16:32 <LionelW> JF: The 2nd part of the question is, 'use the host language convention' but in HTML we have both space separated and comma separated
15:16:43 <LionelW> janina: We looked at ARIA to follow its lead
15:16:50 <Sharon> ack becky
15:16:51 <LionelW> becky: +1 for removing the space
15:17:10 <LionelW> ... (noting that parsers can handle spaces around symbols)
15:17:41 <LionelW> ... ARIA references a token list and 'follow the language' with retaining the ambiguity over HTML 5
15:19:41 <LionelW> JF: Which choice do we take? (1) space (2) comma (3) ambiguous
15:19:49 <janina> q+
15:20:14 <Sharon> ack janina
15:20:36 <CharlesL> q+
15:20:41 <LionelW> janina: Suggest we check in with ARIA, as they have dealt with this ambiguity.
15:20:44 <JF> Q+
15:20:50 <Sharon> ack CharlesL
15:21:03 <LionelW> CharlesL: ARIA is 'out of the box' and published, they have to live with whatever they've got
15:21:27 <becky> q
15:21:29 <LionelW> ... this is a newer specification, we can specify conjugation (without space) and go with it
15:21:36 <Sharon> ack JF
15:21:42 <becky> q
15:21:42 <becky> q+
15:21:52 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
15:22:06 <LionelW> JF: Should we ask TAG, WG? Present the use case/scenario and the three choices, and get an opinion on what is the best notation.
15:22:18 <LionelW> janina: OK to go to TAG/WG
15:22:33 <Sharon> ack becky
15:22:41 <JF> s/TAG, WG/TAG, WHAT-WG
15:22:53 <LionelW> becky: Going to WHAT-WG sounds good
15:22:56 <JF> +1 Becky
15:23:11 <becky> ack b
15:23:11 <LionelW> janina: we want to avoid parser conflicts
15:23:19 <JF> Q+ to propose writing up a draft question for TAG and WHAT WG
15:23:25 <Sharon> ack LisaSeemanKest
15:24:01 <Sharon> ack JF
15:24:01 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to propose writing up a draft question for TAG and WHAT WG
15:24:19 <LionelW_> LionelW_ has joined #personalization
15:24:30 <LionelW_> janina: send to main APA list
15:25:27 <JF> +1 to Janina - keeping our friends close
15:27:35 <LionelW_> JF: I will write up a draft and send it to the personalization list, if everyone approves on the list then JF will send it
15:29:32 <LionelW_> LisaSeemanKest: The order might be important. First APA, then WHATWG then TAG
15:30:07 <JF> Q+
15:30:48 <Sharon> ack JF
15:31:24 <janina> q+
15:31:53 <Sharon> ack janina
15:31:56 <JF> Q+ to ask ARIA why they chose what they chose?
15:32:41 <Sharon> ack JF
15:32:41 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask ARIA why they chose what they chose?
15:32:41 <LionelW_> janina: Big benefits from being 100% aligned with ARIA, as browsers and AT will need to parse both
15:32:56 <LionelW_> JF: That's why it's worth asking why they landed on option (3)
15:33:09 <LionelW_> janina: And ask, what is their experience being ambiguous on choice (3)
15:34:41 <LionelW_> Sharon: taking up agenda item 4
15:34:49 <LionelW_> zakim, take up item 4
15:34:49 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Clean up IRC action items https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/open -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:35:19 <LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions
15:35:34 <LisaSeemanKest> I think u should just close it
15:35:50 <LionelW_> Sharon: Seeking best way to tidy up
15:35:54 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
15:37:35 <LionelW_> JF: Tidied up during the call.
15:39:54 <LionelW_> LisaSeemanKest: I will close the 'prefix' as we are staying with data dash for now
15:39:54 <Sharon> ack LisaSeemanKest
15:40:11 <LionelW_> .... 68
15:40:52 <LionelW_> zakim, next item
15:40:52 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Draft response to I18N issue 145 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/145 -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:41:19 <JF> zakim, close item 1
15:41:19 <Zakim> agendum 1, Draft response to I18N issue 145 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/145, closed
15:41:21 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:21 <Zakim> 2. Research rel versus action and destination https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/78 [from Sharon]
15:41:25 <JF> zakim, close item 2
15:41:25 <Zakim> agendum 2, Research rel versus action and destination https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/78, closed
15:41:27 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:27 <Zakim> 3. Research token list and draft a definition for our spec https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/79 [from Sharon]
15:41:32 <JF> Zakim, close item 3
15:41:32 <Zakim> agendum 3, Research token list and draft a definition for our spec https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/79, closed
15:41:34 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:34 <Zakim> 5. Review Action items wiki - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions [from Sharon]
15:42:18 <LionelW_> zakim, take up item 5
15:42:18 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Review Action items wiki - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:42:52 <LionelW_> Sharon: Lisa to draft Editors note about data- changing. Lets take a look
15:44:19 <LionelW_> LisaSeemanKest: These editor's notes need to be reviewed
15:45:22 <JF> agenda?
15:46:34 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
15:46:53 <LionelW_> Sharon: I see an issue as closed on 26-Jan
15:47:51 <becky> q
15:47:56 <Sharon> ack LisaSeemanKest
15:47:57 <becky> q+
15:48:04 <JF> Topic: New business?
15:50:04 <LionelW_> LisaSeemanKest: Module 1 should point to the public explainer, not to the wiki. Currently pointing to wiki
15:50:44 <Roy> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/
15:50:49 <becky> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/
15:51:34 <LionelW_> LisaSeemanKest: Look inside, lower down -- multiple references need to be validated that they are pointing to the right place
15:52:11 <CharlesL> q+
15:52:12 <Sharon> ack becky
15:52:46 <LionelW_> Topic: Issue 160, spoke with R
15:53:04 <LionelW_> becky: Remains open, as it is tagged with Module 2/3
15:53:16 <becky> ack b
15:53:37 <Sharon> ack CharlesL
15:53:59 <LionelW_> CharlesL: The wiki explainer-- should we put a new title on it, a sign that "This is old" ? Or rename it TAG explainer
15:54:18 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
15:54:48 <Sharon> ack LisaSeemanKest
15:55:02 <CharlesL> q+
15:55:14 <LionelW_> LisaSeemanKest: The front page of the wiki has a reasonably updated list -- let's add to that
15:56:16 <janina> q+
15:56:19 <LionelW_> CharlesL: https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/Explainer-for-Personalization-Semantics
15:56:26 <Sharon> ack CharlesL
15:57:28 <Sharon> ack janina
15:57:54 <LionelW_> janina: I strongly advocate that the TAG "own" this situation
15:58:01 <JF> agenda?
15:58:03 <LionelW_> ... "created for W3C TAG consumption"
15:58:41 <LionelW_> ... we need a general explainer, and at the same time, need to produce a very specific type of defined explainer.
15:58:49 <LionelW_> ... TAG demands we leave a lot of stuff out
15:59:01 <JF> Last minute FYI: related to this TF: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2021JanMar/0097.html
15:59:31 <LionelW_> Sharon: Need a new time for the planning call/
16:00:15 <LionelW_> janina: a new recruit will join -- Matthew Atkinson from APA
16:02:10 <LionelW_> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:02:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html LionelW_
16:03:29 <CharlesL> present+ Lisa
16:03:34 <CharlesL> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:03:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html CharlesL
16:04:02 <CharlesL> present+ Sharon
16:04:06 <CharlesL> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:04:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html CharlesL
16:04:26 <LionelW_> meeting: APA Weekly Personalization Teleconference
16:04:35 <LionelW_> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:04:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html LionelW_
16:05:14 <LionelW_> np Charles, thanks for your patience
16:05:41 <LionelW_> zakim, please part
16:05:41 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been JF, Roy, janina, CharlesL, LionelW, becky, Lisa, Sharon
16:05:41 <Zakim> Zakim has left #personalization
16:06:17 <LionelW_> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:06:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html LionelW_
16:06:42 <LionelW_> rrsagent, please part
16:06:42 <RRSAgent> I see no action items