IRC log of personalization on 2021-02-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:33:33 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #personalization
14:33:33 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-irc
14:33:44 [Sharon]
zakim, start meeting
14:33:44 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:33:45 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Sharon
14:34:00 [Sharon]
agenda?
14:34:10 [Sharon]
chair: Sharon
14:36:03 [Sharon]
agenda+ Draft response to I18N issue 145 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/145
14:37:33 [Sharon]
agenda+ Research rel versus action and destination https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/78
14:38:16 [Sharon]
agenda+ Research token list and draft a definition for our spec https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/79
14:39:31 [Sharon]
agenda+ Clean up IRC action items https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/open
14:40:12 [Sharon]
agenda+ Review Action items wiki - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions
14:40:52 [Sharon]
agenda+ Recruiting
14:54:18 [janina]
janina has joined #personalization
14:58:28 [Roy]
Roy has joined #personalization
15:01:18 [becky]
becky has joined #personalization
15:01:27 [CharlesL]
CharlesL has joined #personalization
15:01:49 [JF]
JF has joined #personalization
15:01:54 [JF]
Present+
15:02:05 [Roy]
Present+
15:02:20 [janina]
present+
15:02:26 [LionelW]
LionelW has joined #personalization
15:02:40 [CharlesL]
present+
15:02:51 [LionelW]
present+
15:02:51 [becky]
present+
15:02:59 [LionelW]
scribe: Lionel
15:03:14 [CharlesL]
scribe: LionelW
15:03:44 [LionelW]
scribe: LionelW
15:03:49 [JF]
agenda?
15:04:57 [CharlesL]
zakim, take up next item
15:04:57 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Draft response to I18N issue 145 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/145 -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:07:47 [LionelW]
John: We discussed multip[le values, and their seperators
15:08:11 [LionelW]
... and an issue regarding conjugated terms, where a 'plus' and a 'space' are involved
15:09:16 [LionelW]
Lisa: There was a discussion of the HTML reference. Issue 145.
15:10:32 [LionelW]
Becky the case: a symbol, a conjugated symbol, then another symbol [symbol symbol + SPACE symbol]
15:10:54 [LionelW]
JF: By listing multiple numeric values it returns a phrase
15:11:06 [LionelW]
... this spacing can throw off the system
15:11:16 [LionelW]
janina: hard space vs soft space?
15:11:39 [LionelW]
LisaSeemanKest: We said language and directional metadata should be the default of how you parse.
15:11:48 [CharlesL]
The above discussion is referring to Agenda 3 token lists
15:12:16 [LionelW]
... say a plus sign means conjugation (you +male, you +female)
15:12:35 [LionelW]
... we are not testing translation across languages
15:12:49 [JF]
https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/index.html#symbol-example
15:13:31 [LionelW]
JF: Example 12, <span data-symbol="13621 12324 17511">cup of Tea</span>
15:13:40 [CharlesL]
q+
15:14:05 [LionelW]
... The / + / is used to join the conjugated values, "her" (14707) and "name" (15691).
15:14:11 [LionelW]
... <img src="her-name.png" alt="שמה" data-symbol="15691 + 14707"/>
15:14:47 [Sharon]
ack CharlesL
15:14:47 [LionelW]
CharlesL: All of this is in reference to Agenda item #3
15:15:32 [LionelW]
JF: The space around the joiner is the cause of the problem, before and after the +
15:15:42 [becky]
q+
15:15:44 [JF]
15691 + 14707 versus 15691+14707
15:15:50 [LisaSeemanKest]
+1
15:16:32 [LionelW]
JF: The 2nd part of the question is, 'use the host language convention' but in HTML we have both space separated and comma separated
15:16:43 [LionelW]
janina: We looked at ARIA to follow its lead
15:16:50 [Sharon]
ack becky
15:16:51 [LionelW]
becky: +1 for removing the space
15:17:10 [LionelW]
... (noting that parsers can handle spaces around symbols)
15:17:41 [LionelW]
... ARIA references a token list and 'follow the language' with retaining the ambiguity over HTML 5
15:19:41 [LionelW]
JF: Which choice do we take? (1) space (2) comma (3) ambiguous
15:19:49 [janina]
q+
15:20:14 [Sharon]
ack janina
15:20:36 [CharlesL]
q+
15:20:41 [LionelW]
janina: Suggest we check in with ARIA, as they have dealt with this ambiguity.
15:20:44 [JF]
Q+
15:20:50 [Sharon]
ack CharlesL
15:21:03 [LionelW]
CharlesL: ARIA is 'out of the box' and published, they have to live with whatever they've got
15:21:27 [becky]
q
15:21:29 [LionelW]
... this is a newer specification, we can specify conjugation (without space) and go with it
15:21:36 [Sharon]
ack JF
15:21:42 [becky]
q
15:21:42 [becky]
q+
15:21:52 [LisaSeemanKest]
q+
15:22:06 [LionelW]
JF: Should we ask TAG, WG? Present the use case/scenario and the three choices, and get an opinion on what is the best notation.
15:22:18 [LionelW]
janina: OK to go to TAG/WG
15:22:33 [Sharon]
ack becky
15:22:41 [JF]
s/TAG, WG/TAG, WHAT-WG
15:22:53 [LionelW]
becky: Going to WHAT-WG sounds good
15:22:56 [JF]
+1 Becky
15:23:11 [becky]
ack b
15:23:11 [LionelW]
janina: we want to avoid parser conflicts
15:23:19 [JF]
Q+ to propose writing up a draft question for TAG and WHAT WG
15:23:25 [Sharon]
ack LisaSeemanKest
15:24:01 [Sharon]
ack JF
15:24:01 [Zakim]
JF, you wanted to propose writing up a draft question for TAG and WHAT WG
15:24:19 [LionelW_]
LionelW_ has joined #personalization
15:24:30 [LionelW_]
janina: send to main APA list
15:25:27 [JF]
+1 to Janina - keeping our friends close
15:27:35 [LionelW_]
JF: I will write up a draft and send it to the personalization list, if everyone approves on the list then JF will send it
15:29:32 [LionelW_]
LisaSeemanKest: The order might be important. First APA, then WHATWG then TAG
15:30:07 [JF]
Q+
15:30:48 [Sharon]
ack JF
15:31:24 [janina]
q+
15:31:53 [Sharon]
ack janina
15:31:56 [JF]
Q+ to ask ARIA why they chose what they chose?
15:32:41 [Sharon]
ack JF
15:32:41 [Zakim]
JF, you wanted to ask ARIA why they chose what they chose?
15:32:41 [LionelW_]
janina: Big benefits from being 100% aligned with ARIA, as browsers and AT will need to parse both
15:32:56 [LionelW_]
JF: That's why it's worth asking why they landed on option (3)
15:33:09 [LionelW_]
janina: And ask, what is their experience being ambiguous on choice (3)
15:34:41 [LionelW_]
Sharon: taking up agenda item 4
15:34:49 [LionelW_]
zakim, take up item 4
15:34:49 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Clean up IRC action items https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/open -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:35:19 [LisaSeemanKest]
https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions
15:35:34 [LisaSeemanKest]
I think u should just close it
15:35:50 [LionelW_]
Sharon: Seeking best way to tidy up
15:35:54 [LisaSeemanKest]
q+
15:37:35 [LionelW_]
JF: Tidied up during the call.
15:39:54 [LionelW_]
LisaSeemanKest: I will close the 'prefix' as we are staying with data dash for now
15:39:54 [Sharon]
ack LisaSeemanKest
15:40:11 [LionelW_]
.... 68
15:40:52 [LionelW_]
zakim, next item
15:40:52 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Draft response to I18N issue 145 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/145 -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:41:19 [JF]
zakim, close item 1
15:41:19 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Draft response to I18N issue 145 https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/145, closed
15:41:21 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:21 [Zakim]
2. Research rel versus action and destination https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/78 [from Sharon]
15:41:25 [JF]
zakim, close item 2
15:41:25 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Research rel versus action and destination https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/78, closed
15:41:27 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:27 [Zakim]
3. Research token list and draft a definition for our spec https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/79 [from Sharon]
15:41:32 [JF]
Zakim, close item 3
15:41:32 [Zakim]
agendum 3, Research token list and draft a definition for our spec https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/personalization/track/actions/79, closed
15:41:34 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:34 [Zakim]
5. Review Action items wiki - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions [from Sharon]
15:42:18 [LionelW_]
zakim, take up item 5
15:42:18 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- Review Action items wiki - https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/actions -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:42:52 [LionelW_]
Sharon: Lisa to draft Editors note about data- changing. Lets take a look
15:44:19 [LionelW_]
LisaSeemanKest: These editor's notes need to be reviewed
15:45:22 [JF]
agenda?
15:46:34 [LisaSeemanKest]
q+
15:46:53 [LionelW_]
Sharon: I see an issue as closed on 26-Jan
15:47:51 [becky]
q
15:47:56 [Sharon]
ack LisaSeemanKest
15:47:57 [becky]
q+
15:48:04 [JF]
Topic: New business?
15:50:04 [LionelW_]
LisaSeemanKest: Module 1 should point to the public explainer, not to the wiki. Currently pointing to wiki
15:50:44 [Roy]
https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/
15:50:49 [becky]
https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/
15:51:34 [LionelW_]
LisaSeemanKest: Look inside, lower down -- multiple references need to be validated that they are pointing to the right place
15:52:11 [CharlesL]
q+
15:52:12 [Sharon]
ack becky
15:52:46 [LionelW_]
Topic: Issue 160, spoke with R
15:53:04 [LionelW_]
becky: Remains open, as it is tagged with Module 2/3
15:53:16 [becky]
ack b
15:53:37 [Sharon]
ack CharlesL
15:53:59 [LionelW_]
CharlesL: The wiki explainer-- should we put a new title on it, a sign that "This is old" ? Or rename it TAG explainer
15:54:18 [LisaSeemanKest]
q+
15:54:48 [Sharon]
ack LisaSeemanKest
15:55:02 [CharlesL]
q+
15:55:14 [LionelW_]
LisaSeemanKest: The front page of the wiki has a reasonably updated list -- let's add to that
15:56:16 [janina]
q+
15:56:19 [LionelW_]
CharlesL: https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/Explainer-for-Personalization-Semantics
15:56:26 [Sharon]
ack CharlesL
15:57:28 [Sharon]
ack janina
15:57:54 [LionelW_]
janina: I strongly advocate that the TAG "own" this situation
15:58:01 [JF]
agenda?
15:58:03 [LionelW_]
... "created for W3C TAG consumption"
15:58:41 [LionelW_]
... we need a general explainer, and at the same time, need to produce a very specific type of defined explainer.
15:58:49 [LionelW_]
... TAG demands we leave a lot of stuff out
15:59:01 [JF]
Last minute FYI: related to this TF: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2021JanMar/0097.html
15:59:31 [LionelW_]
Sharon: Need a new time for the planning call/
16:00:15 [LionelW_]
janina: a new recruit will join -- Matthew Atkinson from APA
16:02:10 [LionelW_]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:02:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html LionelW_
16:03:29 [CharlesL]
present+ Lisa
16:03:34 [CharlesL]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:03:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html CharlesL
16:04:02 [CharlesL]
present+ Sharon
16:04:06 [CharlesL]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:04:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html CharlesL
16:04:26 [LionelW_]
meeting: APA Weekly Personalization Teleconference
16:04:35 [LionelW_]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:04:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html LionelW_
16:05:14 [LionelW_]
np Charles, thanks for your patience
16:05:41 [LionelW_]
zakim, please part
16:05:41 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been JF, Roy, janina, CharlesL, LionelW, becky, Lisa, Sharon
16:05:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #personalization
16:06:17 [LionelW_]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:06:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/22-personalization-minutes.html LionelW_
16:06:42 [LionelW_]
rrsagent, please part
16:06:42 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items