15:19:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-curricula
15:19:02 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-wai-curricula-irc
15:19:04 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:19:05 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Daniel
15:19:41 <Daniel> Meeting: WAI Curricula Task Force Teleconference
15:19:52 <Daniel> Date: February 9, 2021
15:19:58 <Daniel> Chair: Daniel
15:20:51 <Daniel> agenda+ Designer modules outline -- overall structure and contents
15:21:30 <Daniel> Agenda+ Covering visual design and UX design
15:22:32 <Daniel> Agenda+ Sign-posting designer and developer shared responsibilities
15:22:57 <Daniel> zakim, clear item 1
15:22:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'clear item 1', Daniel
15:23:04 <Daniel> zakim, clear agenda
15:23:04 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:23:16 <Daniel> agenda+ Designer modules outline -- overall structure and contents
15:23:25 <Daniel> Agenda+ Covering visual design and UX design
15:23:33 <Daniel> Agenda+ Sign-posting designer and developer shared responsibilities
15:58:07 <GN> GN has joined #wai-curricula
15:58:56 <CarlosD> CarlosD has joined #wai-curricula
16:00:49 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #wai-curricula
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16:02:25 <CarlosD> present+
16:02:34 <sloandr> present+
16:02:59 <eoncins> present+
16:03:01 <Daniel> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_Curricula/WAI_Curricula_Task_Force_Meetings#Scribe_Rotation_List
16:03:17 <GN> present+
16:04:04 <shadi> present+
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16:04:26 <eoncins> Scribe/eoncins
16:04:43 <Daniel> zakim, take up next
16:04:43 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Designer modules outline -- overall structure and contents -- taken up [from Daniel]
16:06:02 <eoncins> Daniel: First outline for structure and contents for the next curricula. We are about to publish the developer modules. Next module is for designers
16:06:46 <eoncins> ...before getting to specifics I would like to gather things people are missing.
16:07:20 <eoncins> David: Module titles are very developer oriented. Module 2 talks about mark-up.
16:07:59 <eoncins> ...it seems to me we want to make it more designers oriented. Also there is a missing use of colours...
16:09:10 <eoncins> Carlos: I felt almost exactly like David. Too developer oriented. I don't think a designer will recognise this topics as they are described. Learning outcomes present the same problem...
16:10:16 <eoncins> ...All modules are focused on the outcome of the design process. No modules present an approach to make sure to test involving users.
16:10:48 <eoncins> Shadi: Do you have examples on thinks to consider in the design process?
16:10:57 <sloandr> +1 to Carlos on the benefits of covering the design process, in addition to design output
16:11:01 <Howard> Howard has joined #wai-curricula
16:11:26 <eoncins> Carlos: In the desgin process you need to make sure to involve users also to gather a requirements listing. This allow higher fidelity prototypes...
16:11:46 <eoncins> ...it should not be just to select which widget you are trying to use.
16:11:50 <RPerez> RPerez has joined #wai-curricula
16:12:09 <Howard> present+ Howard
16:12:33 <eoncins> Carlos: I would call this UX design. Starting with personas.
16:12:45 <eoncins> q+
16:13:15 <eoncins> Carlos: These modules lokk like they are at the end of the line and I think this needs to start earlier.
16:13:42 <eoncins> Daniel: We might want to approach not only the personas but also user requirements.
16:14:26 <eoncins> Daniel: I do acknowledge the use of colours also addressing visual design.
16:17:38 <eoncins> Shadi: User research needs to be reflected.
16:19:10 <eoncins> Gerhard: What could be done is participatory design. If the designers are aware of user involvement it is important.
16:19:31 <eoncins> ...Sometimes the problem in involving people is the budget.
16:20:42 <eoncins> Sarah: I agree with everybody. We have an opportunity to flag best practices. I will be planting seeds for people coming the first time.
16:21:28 <eoncins> Daniel: I am hearing the need to work on a structure less developed centred and also stress the need of involving user and address visual design.
16:27:43 <eoncins> less developer-centric.
16:29:28 <eoncins> David: I just to point that I really like the start. I think is really important for designers to make sure they identify their responsabilities but in some cases they will not be responsible for their implementation.
16:30:57 <Daniel> zakim, take up item 3
16:30:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Sign-posting designer and developer shared responsibilities -- taken up [from Daniel]
16:31:37 <eoncins> Daniel: We have quite a developer-centric approach and bias. I will try to make sure to correct this...
16:33:06 <eoncins> ...designers need to recognise a mark-up even if it is not part of their responsibility, also accessibility roles and names.
16:34:51 <eoncins> Roberto: I was going through the language and actually the person responsible for providing requirements are accessibility engineers...
16:35:16 <eoncins> ...the designer is not the person dealing with html.
16:35:47 <eoncins> ...accessibility is like a translator in the way we do it.
16:36:33 <shadi> q+
16:36:43 <eoncins> Daniel: I guess that even if there is an accessibility engineer this could also fall in the design aspects. We could approach both roles.
16:36:46 <Daniel> ack estella
16:36:58 <shadi> ack eo
16:37:01 <shadi> ack sh
16:38:18 <eoncins> Shadi: Two thoughts I think we have a broad spectrum we have visual designers, UX designers, so we have to be careful on how to approach and communicate the modules.
16:38:48 <eoncins> ...visual designers might need issues more related to colours while UX researchers will need other issues...
16:39:48 <eoncins> ...there also a slight differentiation between knowing how and knowing why. So we need to be careful with the wording that it is not too technical.
16:40:41 <eoncins> ...so we need to a) consider the different audiences and b) how we communicate the information.
16:41:32 <eoncins> Daniel: I agree that we have to use a proper wording and get clear. I will try to work on these aspects.
16:42:57 <eoncins> David: Encouraging annotation in a non technical is very important. Make clear that designers understand the language used in the curriculum.
16:43:31 <eoncins> Daniel: Any further comments or suggestions?
16:44:01 <Daniel> zakim, take up item 2
16:44:01 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Covering visual design and UX design -- taken up [from Daniel]
16:45:31 <eoncins> Daniel: Linked to what Shadi was suggesting before on how to communicate. In this curricula a sequential approach might not work as in the developer curricula...
16:46:00 <eoncins> ...would people be in favour to address the curricula based on different roles?
16:47:13 <Howard> q+
16:47:23 <eoncins> David: I would favour this approach. Plus one for subcategories.
16:47:30 <eoncins> +1
16:47:34 <Daniel> ack howard
16:47:48 <eoncins> Howard: I just wanted to plus one...
16:47:48 <CarlosD> +1
16:48:06 <eoncins> ...which topics in the UX will you take into consideration?
16:49:24 <eoncins> Daniel: The first would be to introduce user design and researcher related to disabilities, make sure also to cover personas and also maybe also gathering requirements through surveys.
16:51:18 <sloandr> q+
16:51:20 <eoncins> Daniel: The third roles would be: visual designer (colour/spacing and how elements are identified), UX Design (technical aspects) and the third will be UX researcher
16:51:33 <eoncins> Carlos: Now is clear.
16:53:17 <CarlosD> +1 to David's suggestion
16:53:27 <eoncins> David: For me the first group would be visual design, second group interaction design and third group UX research.
16:54:34 <RPerez> Where in that structure would we address anotations for developers for things such as text equivalents?
16:54:50 <eoncins> Daniel: First visual design more related to visuals, second interaction design more related to developers and third UX design or research more related on gathering requirements and making sure peoples with disabilities are involved
16:55:27 <eoncins> Roberto: Where in that structure would we address anotations for developers for things such as text equivalents?
16:56:55 <eoncins> Daniel: I think that this would follow under interaction design will be dealing with these aspects.
16:58:01 <eoncins> Roberto: Maybe also cross mention between the different roles could be made.
16:58:32 <eoncins> +1 to the third roles proposed
16:58:53 <Daniel> Topic: FYIs
16:59:42 <eoncins> Daniel: Developers modules survey was closed yesterday and a new survey has been opened about the overview page of the whole curricula...
17:00:13 <eoncins> ...I encourage everybody to complete the survey.
17:00:32 <eoncins> ...I will be sending a reminder later on this week.
17:00:36 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/curricula-overview-page-approval/
17:02:00 <eoncins> I hope to have an updated outline so we can start work on the module titles of the different roles that we mentioned today.
17:02:06 <RPerez> Thanks everyone for the nice introductions and for welcoming me.
17:02:27 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-wai-curricula-minutes.html Daniel
17:05:44 <Daniel> s/desgin/design/
17:06:14 <Daniel> s/lokk/look/
17:07:58 <Daniel> s/I just to point that I really /I really /
17:09:19 <Daniel> s/approach and bias/approach (editor's bias)/
17:13:33 <Daniel> s/different roles?/the different designer roles we have been discussing?/
17:15:12 <Daniel> s/also maybe also/maybe/
17:16:41 <Daniel> s/related on gathering/related to gathering/
17:18:15 <Daniel> s/design will be dealing/design, as they will be dealing/
17:19:42 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:19:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-wai-curricula-minutes.html Daniel
17:22:17 <Daniel> present: Shadi, Carlos, David, Gerhard, Estella, Howard, Sarah, Roberto
17:22:21 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:22:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-wai-curricula-minutes.html Daniel
17:27:25 <Daniel> s/in favour to address/in favour of approaching/
17:27:27 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:27:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-wai-curricula-minutes.html Daniel
17:28:04 <Daniel> zakim, end meeting
17:28:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Shadi, Carlos, David, Gerhard, Estella, Howard, Sarah, Roberto
17:28:06 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:28:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-wai-curricula-minutes.html Zakim
17:28:09 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Daniel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:28:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-curricula
17:28:39 <Daniel> rrsagent, bye
17:28:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items