18:57:16 RRSAgent has joined #auto 18:57:16 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-auto-irc 18:57:18 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:57:19 Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference 19:04:44 Present+ Ulf, Gunnar, Peter, Glenn, Isaac, Ted 19:05:22 Regrets+ MagnusG 19:05:41 Regrets+ MagnusF 19:06:07 Topic: Review continued 19:06:30 Ulf: we walked through the Core document on previous call, received a number of responses and some in the github issue 19:06:48 … I reviewed the minutes and the issue and updated our document 19:07:12 … all are very good comments. the only one I have a different view on is about capitalization 19:07:37 … Peter wasn't a fan of the style 19:07:53 Peter: it is used everywhere although perhaps not grammatically correct 19:08:05 Ulf: it adds some value 19:08:31 … it helps it stand out, having Client in the middle of a sentence it looks strange but helps 19:08:52 Peter: if everyone agrees it helps, I withdraw my reaction 19:09:21 Gunnar: I side with Ulf 19:09:40 … not opposed to highlighting in some other manner. we should strive for being consistent 19:10:00 … Peter found idea of a different font worse 19:13:16 Ted: I looked at some other specs, Manu Sporny is a long term editor and typically did init capitalization for the first time it is brought up, typically in a header and then lower case and linked throughout 19:13:54 … so it is a good balance. they might be using some Respec feature to do that automatically using id and I'll look into that more and work with Ulf on the changes 19:14:04 Ulf: that is a good compromise 19:14:08 Peter and Gunnar agree 19:14:48 Ulf: all feedback so far on Core is in Google doc and we can go into Transport now 19:15:39 … abstract needs more and Ted agreed to work on that along with intro 19:16:25 … Transport Common Definition makes clear that regardless of protocol (WebSocket, HTTP or other) that should be used such as status codes 19:16:45 … status codes leveraged from VISS v1 and we should look if this is how we want them presented 19:17:06 … protocol supports error code, reason and message 19:17:38 … these should be reviewed and may have some scenarios that are not addressed 19:17:58 … payload is a common part, in JSON across all protocols 19:18:19 … authorization is required across protocols 19:19:47 … we have a concept of session lifetime management, more for WebSocket not so for HTTP 19:21:38 Ted: HTTP is a stateless protocol and people have added via eg nonce in querystring or cookies 19:22:19 … both have their downsides. first question is are there any benefits of having a session? 19:22:28 Ulf: please create an issue so we can explore that further 19:22:31 Ted: will do 19:23:11 Ulf: we have Read, Update, Subscribe and their capabilities consistent with both protocols 19:23:34 … examples are given for requests and responses 19:24:36 … we have variants in the chapters, such as token based authentication 19:25:30 … search/query syntax explained, example request/response provided 19:25:42 … another type of read could be the history read 19:26:30 … we have variants based on single or multiple path selection 19:27:56 Gunnar: it might be a good idea to just include the headers needed as some, eg leave out the user-agent string 19:30:03 Ted: I can help review and pare down headers to include 19:31:26 Ulf: update is simpler case 19:31:58 … in WebSocket we have more for instance on session management 19:32:21 … I copied a number of parts from VISS v1 and should be reviewed in detail including example given 19:33:04 … we have the same basic structure on methods. the layout/format is a bit different with the tables as they came over from v1 19:33:48 … I like the look 19:34:01 Ted: maybe we should be consistent and do similar for HTTP? 19:34:21 Ulf: maybe but we have some substantial differences between them 19:36:45 … I am following a consistent pattern for methods across WebSocket 19:37:16 … we have asynchronous methods when conditions met... 19:38:38 … we have curve logic support in subscription 19:39:45 Ted: curve logic was headed to GENIVI, was that finalized and can we reference it? 19:40:23 Glenn: we don't have it ready to post yet but it is imminent on Geotab github 19:41:08 Gunnar: it will be published as an open source project, hosted by Geotab. GENIVI will write a tech brief 19:42:10 Ted we'll need to explain concept and point to Geotab's algorithm as an example 19:42:44 Ulf: we have attribute definitions and for JSON schema as well 19:43:06 … perhaps this belongs more in Core document as it is not protocol specific 19:44:20 Ted: we should have clear understanding of what belongs where and you and I can review with that in mind 19:44:48 Gunnar: in some cases concepts may be worth duplicating 19:46:32 Ted encourages further reading offline, convention is to use catch all unless feature/substantive 19:48:50 https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/364 19:49:19 Ulf: MagnusG, Peter and I are playing around with MQTT in our implementation 19:49:48 Ted: if you have it implemented, we may want to add to transport spec 19:50:03 Ulf: that is a possibility 19:50:12 … still early on 19:50:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-auto-minutes.html ted 19:52:06 Peter: we are using it for various purposes at Volvo 19:52:30 … there are as you said performance gains 19:53:21 … we also looked at WAMP some 19:53:30 … we already have concept of brokers 19:53:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-auto-minutes.html ted 19:54:10 Gunnar: WAMP's features included a number of MQTT features while being more Web like 19:54:25 … plus RPC calls 19:54:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-auto-minutes.html ted 19:55:33 … attempts to do RPC on MQTT seems kind of cludgy 19:55:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/09-auto-minutes.html ted