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13:46:17 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/05-pcg-a11y-irc
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13:46:47 <avneeshsingh> zakim, this will be pcg-a11y
13:46:47 <Zakim> ok, avneeshsingh
13:47:06 <avneeshsingh> present+
13:47:30 <avneeshsingh> chair: avneeshsingh
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14:01:41 <MadeleineRothberg> MadeleineRothberg has joined #pcg-a11y
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14:04:41 <gpellegrino> present+
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14:04:54 <MadeleineRothberg> present+
14:05:01 <laurent_> present+
14:05:09 <gpellegrino> scribe+
14:05:10 <George> George has joined #pcg-a11y
14:05:14 <avneeshsingh> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/85396591844?pwd=dVROUFRSMjVpZkNvS2RBayszcFltQT09
14:05:26 <avneeshsingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/principles/
14:05:40 <George> present+
14:05:42 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/32
14:06:11 <gpellegrino> Topic: removing specific mentions to formats in the principles
14:06:38 <gpellegrino> we should make more generic "EPUB" and "ONIX" in the principles document
14:06:57 <AlexGrover> present+
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14:07:48 <gpellegrino> George: may we have "accessibility  metadata" instead of only "metadata"?
14:08:03 <George> +1
14:08:04 <laurent_> +1
14:08:10 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: do we approve it?
14:08:12 <gpellegrino> +1
14:08:27 <MadeleineRothberg_> MadeleineRothberg_ has joined #pcg-a11y
14:08:35 <avneeshsingh> approved #32 with modification of accessibility metadata instead of metadata
14:08:46 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #pcg-a11y
14:08:50 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/28
14:09:02 <avneeshsingh> https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/principles/#ui-technical-details
14:09:44 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: this problem mainly address accessibility metadata, not generic metadata
14:09:54 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:09:55 <gpellegrino> ... so section 3 is more for examples
14:10:09 <MadeleineRothberg_> queue+
14:10:21 <avneeshsingh> ack madel
14:11:02 <gpellegrino> MadeleineRothberg_: I think the issue is it ok to have "audiobook" in the front, instead that inside the "metadata" section?
14:11:07 <gpellegrino> q+
14:11:22 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:11:46 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:11:57 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: I think that it is only an example
14:12:04 <gpellegrino> ... so we can clarify it
14:12:05 <avneeshsingh> proposal: provide a clarification that this is an example
14:12:17 <MadeleineRothberg_> +1
14:12:20 <gpellegrino> +1
14:12:26 <George> +1+1
14:12:28 <mgarrish> 0
14:12:30 <avneeshsingh> resolved
14:12:32 <laurent_> 0
14:12:48 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/33
14:13:25 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: right now conformance URL points to IDPF
14:13:45 <gpellegrino> ... since we are updating the URLs, why don't we update it?
14:13:46 <mgarrish> q+
14:14:00 <gpellegrino> ... the fact is that we will publish that document in 2022
14:14:54 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:15:00 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: actually they do not point to pages, but they are URIs
14:15:03 <avneeshsingh> ack mg
14:15:23 <gpellegrino> ... so we can change the note from "they point to an IDPF page" to "they point to an IDPF URIs"
14:15:39 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: Matt, can you add it to the issue tracker?
14:15:43 <avneeshsingh> resolution: agreed with approach mentioned in issue tracker, and Matt will do minor improvements
14:15:45 <gpellegrino> q+
14:16:09 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:16:30 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: may we not close the issue and tag it for the next version?
14:16:35 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: good
14:16:49 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/30
14:17:07 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/29
14:17:21 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: these two are straight forward
14:17:48 <avneeshsingh> Proposal: approve #30, #29
14:17:53 <gpellegrino> +1
14:17:55 <MadeleineRothberg_> +1
14:17:58 <gpellegrino> +2
14:18:08 <avneeshsingh> resolved
14:18:15 <George> +2
14:18:40 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/issues/34
14:19:11 <avneeshsingh> https://github.com/edrlab/thorium-reader/issues/1332#issuecomment-763486512
14:19:16 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: the next issue it is only for techniques, so it is not compulsory to solve it now
14:20:12 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:20:24 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: the basic question is: is an audiobook a publication of only audio? Or also a Media Overlay EPUB is an audiobook?
14:20:42 <laurent_> q+
14:20:57 <George> Q+
14:21:05 <avneeshsingh> ack ack
14:21:07 <gpellegrino> charles: for me if it has audio it is an audiobook
14:21:19 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:21:28 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:21:43 <gpellegrino> laurent_: I agree with Charles, but from a user point of view the user interface to access the content is different
14:22:24 <avneeshsingh> ack georg
14:23:32 <gpellegrino> George: there are a ot of features that are available in EPUB MO and not in audiobooks (for example searching, highlight), so we have to display the difference
14:23:46 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:23:47 <gpellegrino> laurent_: maybe we can only change the label "audiobook"
14:24:18 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pcg-a11y
14:24:25 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:24:29 <CharlesL> present+
14:24:34 <George> q+
14:24:37 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: I'm concerned that changing the label now, we have to move forward the pubblicatin of the document
14:24:42 <laurent_> I agree with Avneesh
14:24:57 <MadeleineRothberg_> q+
14:25:12 <gpellegrino> George: do we need something like "multimedia overlay"?
14:25:36 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: right now we have that if access-sufficient = audio, than it is an audiobook
14:25:44 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:25:56 <avneeshsingh> ack georg
14:26:06 <MadeleineRothberg_> q-
14:26:20 <gpellegrino> George: I think it is a marketing stuff to describe a publication as purely audio or audio+text
14:26:33 <gpellegrino> q+
14:26:37 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:26:47 <avneeshsingh> ack gre
14:27:03 <mgarrish> q+
14:27:20 <MadeleineRothberg_> q+
14:27:33 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:27:55 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: for only text we have "screenreader friendly", "audiobook" is a type of pubblication, not a way to access the content
14:28:01 <avneeshsingh> ack matt
14:28:23 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:28:28 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: is it a metadata problem or is it a wording problem?
14:28:42 <gpellegrino> ... maybe we can say "audio playback" available
14:28:42 <George> q+
14:28:43 <laurent_> Frankly "Audio Playback" would be better than "Audiobook" here
14:28:49 <avneeshsingh> ack madel
14:29:15 <gpellegrino> MadeleineRothberg_: I think the problem isn't in the metadata, I think it is more on the label side
14:29:27 <gpellegrino> ... maybe we can use "Full audio available"
14:29:37 <avneeshsingh> ack geor
14:29:51 <gpellegrino> ... maybe we can use a note, but we can also change the label
14:30:08 <gpellegrino> George: I think we should add examples about this
14:30:49 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: what is the cost of delaying the publication of 1-2 weeks for changing the label?
14:30:59 <gpellegrino> q+
14:31:00 <laurent_> Example https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/techniques/epub-metadata.html#example-9.1-all-metadata-fields-present presents what an EPUB 3 with Media Overlays will get
14:31:32 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: may we vote?
14:31:35 <avneeshsingh> Proposal: delay publication a little and correct label for audio books
14:31:40 <gpellegrino> +1
14:31:41 <MadeleineRothberg_> +1
14:31:44 <mgarrish> +1
14:31:44 <laurent_> +1
14:31:45 <CharlesL> +1
14:31:53 <avneeshsingh> resolved
14:31:54 <gpellegrino> q+
14:32:01 <laurent_> q+
14:32:04 <gpellegrino> q-
14:32:11 <George> +1
14:32:36 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:32:39 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: Madeleine maybe you are the right person to find a new wording
14:33:25 <gpellegrino> laurent_: we can add an example of metadata for EPUB MO as shown here: https://w3c.github.io/publ-a11y/UX-Guide-Metadata/techniques/epub-metadata.html#example-9.1-all-metadata-fields-present
14:33:56 <gpellegrino> ... I will open an issue on this
14:34:43 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:34:46 <MadeleineRothberg_> +1 to full audio
14:34:50 <CharlesL> +1
14:34:51 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: do we want to brainstorm now for the right label for EPUB MOs?
14:35:08 <gpellegrino> laurent_: what about full audio?
14:35:12 <CharlesL> q+
14:35:17 <MadeleineRothberg_> q+
14:35:26 <avneeshsingh> ack charl
14:36:12 <avneeshsingh> ack madel
14:36:29 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: if it has access-mode sufficient textual we will have "screenreader friendly", maybe also having "full text" we'll also be fine
14:36:43 <gpellegrino> MadeleineRothberg_: for audio it is simpler: we have only one metadata
14:37:01 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: any volunteer?
14:37:09 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino: me!
14:37:17 <CharlesL> Yes I can help on the EPUB schema techniques
14:37:17 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:37:25 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: any other stuff?
14:37:28 <gpellegrino> q+
14:38:20 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:38:52 <gpellegrino> George: what is our timeline?
14:39:07 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: I think in a week we can have the editorial stuff done
14:39:38 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: are we planning to add a new examples for "full audio"?
14:40:09 <CharlesL> q+
14:40:23 <avneeshsingh> ack charles
14:40:36 <gpellegrino> George: maybe we should also have "synchronized text-audio"
14:40:46 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: we can do it in the next version
14:40:54 <MadeleineRothberg_> q+
14:41:07 <avneeshsingh> ack madel
14:41:10 <mgarrish> q+
14:41:42 <gpellegrino> MadeleineRothberg_: we are only suggesting what to put in the UI, we don't have to list all the different possible combinations
14:42:08 <gpellegrino> ... if providers want to say something more or something different, it is fine"
14:42:10 <avneeshsingh> ack next
14:42:13 <CharlesL> q+
14:42:43 <gpellegrino> mgarrish: We have the information for EPUB MO in the metadata (not under accessibility metadata)
14:42:54 <avneeshsingh> ack charles
14:43:21 <gpellegrino> CharlesL: in our document we have 4.2 section "Audiobook"
14:43:38 <gpellegrino> ... we have to change also the definition
14:43:49 <MadeleineRothberg_> q+
14:44:10 <avneeshsingh> ack madel
14:44:56 <gpellegrino> MadeleineRothberg_: Charles you're right, because right now we are only speaking about audiobooks and not about EPUB MOs
14:45:26 <George> q+
14:45:51 <avneeshsingh> ack george
14:46:10 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: I think this is a fundamental thing, in this way we don't focus on content type, but on accessibility features
14:46:37 <avneeshsingh> q?
14:46:40 <gpellegrino> George: are we opening a new category for synchronized audio and text?
14:46:46 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: not right now
14:47:39 <gpellegrino> avneeshsingh: thank you all!
14:48:12 <avneeshsingh> rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/05-pcg-a11y-minutes.html avneeshsingh
14:48:24 <avneeshsingh> rrsagent, make logs public
14:48:59 <avneeshsingh> rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/05-pcg-a11y-minutes.html avneeshsingh