19:58:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-at
19:58:42 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/04-aria-at-irc
19:59:01 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group
19:59:14 <Matt_King> CHAIR: James Scholes
19:59:25 <juliette_mcshane> juliette_mcshane has joined #aria-at
19:59:26 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make log public
19:59:35 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
19:59:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/04-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
20:01:01 <Matt_King> hope I am using right url
20:02:20 <juliette_mcshane> present+
20:02:52 <jscholes> present+
20:03:01 <Matt_King> present+ Sina
20:07:59 <jscholes> Agenda link: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/February-4%2C-2021-Community-Group-Meeting
20:09:17 <michael_fairchild> michael_fairchild has joined #aria-at
20:09:19 <Matt_King> TOPIC: Next tests to write
20:09:26 <Matt_King> issue 385: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/385
20:10:04 <Matt_King> js: Last year planned 13 patterns
20:10:11 <Matt_King> work on those is coming to close.
20:10:40 <Matt_King> Put off date picker combobox,but the other 12 are essentially done.
20:10:53 <Matt_King> Main point is to discuss which patterns to tackle next.
20:11:07 <Matt_King> May want to focus on roles we have not yet touched at all.
20:12:58 <Matt_King> mk: Have we done with grid to cover relevant props
20:13:31 <Matt_King> js: may need support for command sequences to test grid
20:18:05 <Matt_King> js: suggested sliders
20:18:09 <Matt_King> sina: +1
20:18:15 <Matt_King> mf: also possibly trees
20:19:21 <Matt_King> js: also spin button
20:19:38 <Matt_King> js: table
20:19:47 <Matt_King> mk: execute more on grid before table
20:19:57 <Matt_King> mf: +1
20:20:05 <Matt_King> js: toolbar
20:21:04 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-at
20:22:13 <Matt_King> sina: when we can have discussion of aria-haspopup = dialog
20:22:26 <Matt_King> mk: Not part of current scope because not in APG yet
20:22:57 <Matt_King> js: Have to work out how and where we put those examples, the ones that are not in APG
20:28:01 <Matt_King> all: discussion of what it would take to have tests for  both apg and attributes
20:28:12 <Matt_King> all: discussion of how we are not ready to take on aria-live
20:28:52 <Matt_King> js: we have slider, tree, spinbutton, toolbar
20:29:21 <Matt_King> Sina: are those specialized or do they have crossover
20:29:39 <Matt_King> js: some corssover between slider and pinner because both based on range
20:30:31 <Matt_King> sina: Asking about specialization in a different way, remember the multi-thumb slider
20:31:03 <Matt_King> js: For each pattern, we will have to decide which specific examples we do
20:31:08 <Matt_King> jf: can we add feed to list
20:31:19 <Matt_King> js: could potentially add it
20:32:28 <jongund> present+ jongund
20:33:11 <Matt_King> mk: feed could be opportunity to test the process of developing consensus among screen reader developers
20:36:02 <Matt_King> TOPIC: Issue 386 agenda meeting labels
20:36:05 <Matt_King> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/386
20:36:40 <Matt_King> mk: I read this and think that it is a good idea to have distinct labels for different meetings
20:37:26 <Matt_King> js: You can't determine which workstream an an agenda issue is for
20:37:47 <Matt_King> mk: How many do we need, and what would they be?
20:37:55 <Matt_King> js: 4, i think
20:38:23 <Matt_King> js: maybe the round up meeting at end of month does not need a label if agenda is fixed
20:41:16 <Matt_King> mk: discuss format and approach
20:41:37 <Matt_King> mk: 4 labels of format agenda+community group, agenda+automation, etc\
20:42:39 <Matt_King> TOPIC: Issue 375 - working mode updates
20:42:40 <Matt_King> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/375
20:42:56 <Matt_King> js: No new comments on issue, looking for way forward.
20:43:33 <Matt_King> mk: I proposed some language we discussed last week
20:43:49 <Matt_King> i don't know if we have consensus on it, but we didn't have objections
20:44:52 <Matt_King> mk: James, can you put updated version of wiki in comment in issue using the language I proposed?
20:44:54 <Matt_King> js: yes
20:45:12 <michael_fairchild> present+
20:48:11 <Matt_King> TOPIC: NVDA browse mode detection (issue 382)
20:48:16 <Matt_King> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/382
20:48:42 <Matt_King> js: Testers are instructed to ensure nvda is in browse mode by pressing escape
20:48:59 <Matt_King> instructions say it will not have any effect if already in browse mode
20:49:19 <Matt_King> this is not correct because if focus is in a dialog or menu, it will close the dialog or men.
20:49:41 <Matt_King> Maybe a solution is to have user press nvda+space until user hears browse mode sound
20:49:56 <Matt_King> mf: might be the only way, don't see a problem with it
20:50:10 <Matt_King> js: next step would be to come up with the language
20:50:23 <Matt_King> mk: where are those instructions stored?
20:50:36 <Matt_King> js: I believe there is a template in the aria-at repo
20:50:43 <Matt_King> not sure which file
20:51:18 <Matt_King> we would need to regenerate all tests
20:52:08 <Matt_King> js: should we have an issue asking if we should have to regenerate all?
20:52:27 <Matt_King> mk: I don't see a problem with regenerating all, irt will not delete date
20:53:23 <Matt_King> TOPIC: Impact of hint text on tests (issue 365)
20:53:27 <Matt_King> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/365
20:53:46 <Matt_King> js: related to screen readers that provide hint text, which would presumably be on by default
20:53:59 <Matt_King> VoiceOver has very specific ones.
20:54:24 <Matt_King> Editable combobox test provides good example.
20:54:40 <Matt_King> VoiceOver doesn't tell you it is uneditable unless you hear the hint.
20:54:55 <Matt_King> Should we make assertions about hint text?
20:57:00 <Matt_King> mk: Does the combobox role on Mac serve as sufficient idicator that the widget is editable
20:57:21 <Matt_King> This almost feels like a discussion to have with Apple
20:58:34 <Matt_King> js: to move forward with select only combobox, we jsut used role of combobox in assertions.
20:58:41 <Matt_King> for Apple
21:01:59 <Matt_King> mk: james, can you raise issue against core-aam to ask if MacOS mapping should specify what Chrome does for select only combobox as correct.
21:02:01 <Matt_King> js: yes
21:02:47 <Matt_King> js: will add more examples to issue 365
21:05:25 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
21:05:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/04-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
21:07:36 <Matt_King> present+
21:07:52 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
21:07:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/04-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King