15:35:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #md-odrl-profile
15:35:59 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-irc
15:36:01 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:36:02 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jo_
15:36:29 <jo_> meeting: Rights Automation Community Group Teleconference
15:36:37 <jo_> chair: jo
15:37:00 <jo_> agenda: https://w3c.github.io/market-data-odrl-profile/agendas/md-odrl-profile-agenda-2021-02-03.html
15:55:54 <jo_> present: jo
15:56:13 <jo_> regrets: renato
15:59:45 <jo_> Topic: Admin
16:00:50 <ben> ben has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:00:56 <Caspar_MacRae> Caspar_MacRae has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:00:58 <belen> belen has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:01:07 <jo_> present+ belen, markD, caspar, ali
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16:02:09 <joshuaCornejo> joshuaCornejo has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:02:22 <jo_> present+ jeremy, ben, markB
16:02:35 <joshuaCornejo> Hello - Calendar Invite still doesn't download Zoom details
16:03:45 <jo_> s/Hello - Calendar Invite still doesn't download Zoom details//
16:04:44 <Ilya> Ilya has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:04:53 <jo_> Minutes: https://www.w3.org/2021/01/20-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html
16:05:55 <jo_> [dsicussion of minutes]
16:06:32 <jo_> scribe: jo
16:06:54 <jo_> scribe: joshuaCornejo
16:07:29 <jo_> RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of last meeting
16:07:37 <NigelP> NigelP has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:07:52 <jo_> Topic: Outstanding Tasks
16:08:13 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: success criteria was if we could translate 20 core common licences Laura identified
16:08:24 <joshuaCornejo> ... I've been through 10 of those with endless repeating patterns.
16:08:37 <joshuaCornejo> ... confident this is doable and will continue to look.
16:08:57 <joshuaCornejo> ... Michelle did volunteer the ASX license as potential different structure
16:09:13 <joshuaCornejo> ... I will see the set of test cases and see if we need to add some terms
16:09:18 <joshuaCornejo> ... we will discuss them in the meeting
16:09:28 <joshuaCornejo> ... once we've done that, we'll be near a version 1
16:09:37 <jo_> present+ nigel, mevan, Olga, michelle, Ilya, Trisha
16:09:53 <joshuaCornejo> ... where I would like to manage this going forward is on the GitHub site
16:10:45 <joshuaCornejo> <Ben goes through the GitHub issues>
16:11:20 <joshuaCornejo> ... as we go through the test cases, there will be places where we will need to get to places that need to add some test cases/vocabulary
16:11:32 <joshuaCornejo> ... once we have no open issues, we are in a position to publish
16:12:06 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: the test cases are a subset
16:12:22 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: we need to prioritise them and at least get through the P1 by the end of Q1
16:12:46 <jo_> Topic: From Contract to Policy
16:13:49 <jo_> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:13:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:14:01 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: in our day to day job, how contracts touch back with policies. Not part of the ODRL, provide some kind of wrapper
16:15:38 <jo_> present+ josh
16:15:43 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: does this metadata exist within the ODRL or outside
16:15:51 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: is it information that we need
16:15:56 <joshuaCornejo> Nigel: raises an interesting question
16:16:43 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: in trying to answer this question, I came up with this model
16:17:06 <jo_> present+ laura
16:17:11 <joshuaCornejo> ... Wonder if a standardised pattern would be of value
16:18:00 <joshuaCornejo> ... terms have to be signed, then there are guidance documents that give advice to the application of this license
16:18:13 <joshuaCornejo> <Ben goes through the list of documents>
16:18:44 <jo_> present+ atiq
16:19:13 <jo_> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:19:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:19:43 <jo_> (Ben is discussing https://github.com/w3c/market-data-odrl-profile/issues/24)
16:20:06 <jo_> s/ dsicussion/discussion/
16:20:36 <jo_> s/dsicussion/discussion/
16:20:48 <jo_> s|s/ dsicussion/discussion/||
16:21:37 <joshuaCornejo> Nigel - describes some combinations of policies/contracts
16:22:12 <jo_> s/Nigel -/Nigel:/
16:22:46 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: describes the hierarchy
16:22:49 <jo_> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:22:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo_
16:23:04 <joshuaCornejo> Casper: what if the policy is not in ODRL
16:23:46 <joshuaCornejo> Nigel: but is this part of ODRL ?
16:23:57 <joshuaCornejo> ... follows describing his thinking
16:24:08 <jo_> s/Casper/Caspar/
16:24:22 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: by bringing this part, are we not biting more than we can chew?
16:25:10 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: if I have a permission in front of me, what is the actual paperwork that is connected to the policy
16:25:33 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: can we just have something like a unique identifier ?
16:27:06 <joshuaCornejo> Nigel: better if we just focus at the scope and point or have a pointer at the document and that's all
16:27:39 <joshuaCornejo> Michelle: there is a bit to it that we can strip out like when some parties have to notify
16:27:53 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: something with a lot of meat is out of the question
16:28:38 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: if the concept is to track back to an agreement, can we not just have a prefix of their organisational name at the time and an autoincremental unique ID
16:29:43 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: one concern when we go into this detail and companies are bought all the time
16:29:51 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: I am absolutely not trying to cover this
16:30:28 <joshuaCornejo> Nigel: there is value, but just to put an identifier without trying to go too deep
16:31:41 <MichelleR> MichelleR has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:31:43 <joshuaCornejo> Casper: if we use an URI schema, I am specifically interested into linking to specific sections of a contract from the policy
16:32:12 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: for those not familiar: URI - Universal Resource Identifier
16:32:12 <jo_> s/Casper/Caspar/
16:32:36 <joshuaCornejo> Ilya: would that take the form of a new contract entity
16:33:19 <jo_> Topic: Test Cases
16:33:56 <jo_> s/Ilya/MarkB/
16:34:33 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: maybe 12 test cases make more sense, the reason I ask is that if we go for a larger number it might be larger scope, but with few we can go deep and more detail
16:34:49 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: I spent this week covering each of the test cases
16:35:19 <joshuaCornejo> ... some we have already covered, at the moment my feeling is we can cover them all
16:35:50 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: once we've done that, we can put Laura and Michelle on the spot and see if there is anything specific that is of particular interest
16:35:57 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: that would really be useful
16:36:12 <joshuaCornejo> ... first thing I did was to group the cases
16:36:23 <joshuaCornejo> <goes through the cases>
16:36:56 <jo_> 
16:40:17 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: makes sense, 2 things that are implicit
16:40:59 <joshuaCornejo> ... if the price of something is $0 it is usually not in a price list and it will have to be explicit
16:41:12 <joshuaCornejo> ... the definition to pay obligations needs to be complete
16:41:38 <joshuaCornejo> Olga: about delayed data, does timeliness covers delays of data ?
16:42:06 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: often licenses don't explicitly say that, people just make assumptions ... I can delay data for free
16:42:11 <jo__> jo__ has joined #md-odrl-profile
16:42:25 <joshuaCornejo> ... I am proposing that we create a world were people can only use what they are permissions
16:42:46 <joshuaCornejo> ... we should explicitly create permissions and have the associated duties
16:43:23 <joshuaCornejo> ... the assumption here is if you get a real-time fee, and you then delay it by 15 minutes
16:43:46 <jo__> rrsagent, make minutes
16:43:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo__
16:43:51 <joshuaCornejo> Nigel: some contracts say "if you delay data, you will need our consent of how you delay it"
16:44:00 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: yes, we can create duties for that
16:44:05 <joshuaCornejo> Olga: it does make sense
16:44:29 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: what level of delay data
16:44:52 <joshuaCornejo> ... we can capture that as properties in the language
16:44:56 <jo__> (discussion relates to https://github.com/w3c/market-data-odrl-profile/blob/gh-pages/Test-Cases.md)
16:45:03 <joshuaCornejo> <Ben goes and continues with the test cases>
16:48:13 <joshuaCornejo> Laura: the ones around cancellation will be very common, very easily achievable. The ones around non-display are a bit more dicey. They are always questions that are getting asked.
16:48:20 <joshuaCornejo> ... it is such a keen area right now.
16:48:35 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: reminds me, I have a question for the group. VWAPS ?
16:48:54 <joshuaCornejo> Is it OK to display or do you need to get a licence for displaying that ?
16:49:36 <joshuaCornejo> Laura: as we have exchanges for which any calculation is for non-display use
16:49:48 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: do any of the test cases that we have cover
16:50:22 <joshuaCornejo> <Ben continues with the test cases>
16:53:16 <jo__> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:53:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo__
16:54:07 <jo__> scribeoptions: -nologo -final -oldStyle
16:54:27 <joshuaCornejo> Michelle: a lot of contracts are explicit "if it is not in here, it is not permitted"
16:54:52 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: it is important the concept of application, am I going to pay more if I fire another application.
16:54:57 <jo__> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:54:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo__
16:55:09 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: there is of course the use of "system" that sounds much bigger than an application
16:55:36 <joshuaCornejo> Nigel: there is also discrepancies in the definition of application
16:55:48 <joshuaCornejo> Mark: is there anything defined in here?
16:56:01 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: there is the concept of automated trading
16:56:14 <joshuaCornejo> Laura: it is the same challenge with anything non-display.
16:56:29 <joshuaCornejo> ... am I going to end up with more cases where it is not clear?
16:56:48 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: we maybe be able to make it more clear
16:57:04 <joshuaCornejo> ... am I allow to do 'this, this and this' ... and get the exchanges to answer
16:57:10 <joshuaCornejo> ... I know it sounds pretty simple
16:57:38 <joshuaCornejo> Caspar: can I ask a question - will we have a taxonomy of derived data ?
16:58:37 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: I am hoping of the use of a prohibition, you are allowed 'non-display' but you can't do a b or c. I am hoping that the use of the prohibition will save us the detail of these taxonomies
16:59:47 <jo__> Topic: AOB
17:00:13 <joshuaCornejo> Ben: for JPMorgan and DataBP that your feedback is fantastic, and for any other organisation to please review
17:00:57 <jo__> many thanks once again to Josh for scribing
17:01:06 <jo__> --- meeting closed ---
17:01:06 <joshuaCornejo> No problem
17:01:22 <jo__> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo__
17:02:39 <joshuaCornejo> joshuaCornejo has joined #md-odrl-profile
17:05:10 <jo__> s/... as we go/Ben: as we go/
17:05:59 <jo__> s/Is it OK/... Is it OK
17:06:10 <jo__> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:06:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo__
17:07:28 <jo__> s/No problem//
17:07:38 <jo__> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:07:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo__
17:08:02 <joshuaCornejo> joshuaCornejo has joined #md-odrl-profile
17:08:30 <jo__> s/Resolution: Accept minutes of last meeting/RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of last meeting/
17:08:35 <jo__> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:08:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/03-md-odrl-profile-minutes.html jo__
17:13:22 <jo__> zakim, bye
17:13:22 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jo, belen, markD, caspar, ali, jeremy, ben, markB, nigel, mevan, Olga, michelle, Ilya, Trisha, josh, laura, atiq
17:13:22 <Zakim> Zakim has left #md-odrl-profile
17:13:28 <jo__> rrsagent, bye
17:13:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items