19:01:43 RRSAgent has joined #auto 19:01:43 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/02/02-auto-irc 19:01:45 RRSAgent, make logs Public 19:01:46 Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference 19:01:46 Chair: Peter 19:01:51 Topic: VISS review 19:01:53 scribenick: ted 19:01:56 Scribe: Ted 19:02:34 Present+ MagnusF, Ulf, Peter, Ted, Adnan, Armin, Ashish, Isaac 19:03:06 Present+ MagnusG 19:03:34 Regrets+ Glenn 19:03:40 Present+ Gunnar 19:04:19 Present+ Daniel 19:05:47 Ted explains how we are conducting review 19:06:38 Ulf: we have an open issue for minor editorial changes and linked a Google doc where we have entered areas we want to address 19:08:37 Ted: please check the document before suggesting others in github #364, it is a catch-all for editorial suggestions, areas that need elaboration 19:08:59 … more substantive topics the group should debate are candidates for separate issues 19:09:41 Peter seeks clarification and Ulf elaborates how we are trying to organize and funnel comments 19:10:20 Ulf: we have some thoughts already on areas to improve 19:11:09 … Ted has some ideas on rewriting introduction/abstract 19:11:24 Ted: yes, history, motivation and use cases - welcome input 19:11:57 Peter: you should perhaps explain what VISS stands for :) 19:12:10 Ulf: status of document is boilerplate 19:12:12 Ted: correct 19:12:34 Peter: for both Core and Transport, I dislike using capitalization how we do 19:12:46 Ulf: example? 19:13:51 Peter: Client, WebSocket, etc 19:15:40 Ted: pet peeve as well is CamelCasing but terms we name are also typically have initial character capitalized 19:16:16 … will look at conventions/rules to be consistent and we can look to minimalize 19:16:57 Ulf: in access control model it makes sense to have clear label for Client 19:18:16 MagnusG: in cases we have special meaning, shouldn't we link to the definitions? 19:20:57 Ted: we are doing some and identified need to do more, within reason especially as we are split between two documents 19:21:13 Ulf: conformance is boilerplate, terminology is thin 19:22:13 … Ted and I have discussed using just VISS instead of VISSv2 19:23:30 Ted: we need to have more terms and maybe more definitions here 19:23:39 Gunnar: I would prefer hosted at for VSS 19:23:58 Ulf: for data model we refer to VSS2 but don't go into details, wonder if we should have more 19:25:43 Ted: was thinking at least an excerpt, high level summary on VSS but alright if others oppposed 19:25:52 Gunnar: question is where to draw the line 19:26:36 Ulf: Service discovery is part of metadata requests, my proposal is to remove this section or move down 19:27:04 … Interface chapter defines all methods, introduction perhaps a bit thin 19:27:41 … we state we support HTTP and WebSocket but allow for others, making clear they need to support read and update 19:29:53 … responses given for each method, please read and like other sections please point out anything unclear 19:30:45 Peter: on subscribe, its use of notification is a bit confusing and should be explained a bit more not in 5.1.3 19:31:22 … 'the notification messages are sent by the filtered data' could be rephrased 19:31:57 Ulf: if you have thoughts on alternate wording 19:32:02 Peter: have and provided 19:32:22 Ulf: great, yes in issue and we will put in our todos document 19:33:50 … for error responses we leave message part as May since not all tranports may support it 19:35:47 … we will add a privacy subchapter under security, elaborate on use of encryption, best practices and summary of/link to access control 19:36:22 Ulf: definitions are out of sync between core and transport, we need to harmonize them 19:37:00 … filtering is a big new section compared to VISS v1 19:37:31 … I am giving thought on the layout or if there are things we can do to make it more readable 19:37:36 … again welcome ideas 19:39:27 … multiple signal requests in filtering chapter required some extra thought, expectations to set for eg error handling 19:39:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/02-auto-minutes.html ted 19:41:00 Gunnar: I also encourage you to look at your implementation and the spec for sections that are difficult to understand 19:41:21 Ulf: all of this is implemented 19:41:58 Gunnar: others do not benefit from the internal knowledge you have, my point is to reflect on difficult areas and a fresh perspective 19:43:00 Ulf: we have a separate issue on #metadata-type as #anchors are not sent via HTTP, used in page post processing 19:43:13 … will use query instead of fragments 19:43:45 … we have static and dynamic metadata available 19:44:38 [notes a placeholder ***anymore***, Ulf encourages people to give it thought] 19:45:04 Gunnar: I am not convinced about this chapter. regarding use of fonts, casing, there could be something done to make it more obvious 19:46:15 … I note eg metadata-type is unclear if it is a type that would be entered or that you should use 'metadata-type' - it is a bit ambiguous 19:48:22 Ulf: access control is a rather large chapter, we have discussed this chapter in detail previously so in interest of time for this call stay high level. do give it more detailed read offline 19:48:33 … we want to attract security experts for review as well 19:50:12 Ted: the spec process will prompt a formal review for certain, we can request one before we trigger one as well 19:51:57 Peter: I'm not sure layering is adequately defined 19:52:13 Ulf: it is still being discussed in VSS so perhaps we should omit it 19:53:01 Gunnar: I asked on other call for feedback on basic concept, moving from a readme to actual VSS documentation 19:53:14 … suggest keeping an open issue, there is a chance it will be ready in time 19:55:12 Ulf: we will go into Transport later, please continue reading and providing feedback 19:55:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/02-auto-minutes.html ted 19:58:26 https://github.com/GENIVI/vehicle_signal_specification/blob/622797ddb1d3822ca04b2a242efb7ce2fff477d5/vss_layers/README.md 19:58:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/02/02-auto-minutes.html ted 19:58:29 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been MagnusF, Ulf, Peter, Ted, Adnan, Armin, Ashish, Isaac, MagnusG, Gunnar, Daniel 19:58:29 Zakim has left #auto 19:58:30 I see no action items