20:02:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #immersive-web
20:02:28 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/19-immersive-web-irc
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20:02:43 <cwilso> Zakim, this is immersive-web
20:02:43 <Zakim> got it, cwilso
20:02:52 <cwilso> present+
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20:02:58 <cwilso> present+ Leonard
20:03:26 <jgilbert> present+
20:04:02 <yonet> present+
20:04:15 <cperey> present+
20:04:54 <bajones> present+
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20:05:41 <cabanier> present+
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20:06:21 <ada_> hi!
20:07:50 <yonet> Agenda: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/cg/2021-01-19-Immersive_Web_Community_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
20:09:44 <Leonard> Scribe Leonard
20:10:04 <Leonard> https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/cg/2021-01-19-Immersive_Web_Community_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
20:10:18 <Leonard> Item: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/issues/147
20:10:59 <Leonard> Brandon: General discussion to make sure we are all in sync and to see if there are any API issues
20:11:57 <Leonard> ... share collective knowledge about how things are going
20:12:04 <Leonard> q+
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20:12:48 <Leonard> Leonard: I need to dial in...
20:12:59 <dino> present+
20:14:37 <dino> q+ after discussion
20:14:47 <dino> q- after discussion
20:14:57 <dino> q+ to speak after discussion
20:15:00 <cabanier> q+
20:15:53 <Leonard> Brandon: <missed a bunch of this report... :-(>Lots of content being displayed on cardboard
20:16:42 <Nick-8thWall> Nick-8thWall has joined #immersive-web
20:17:01 <ada> q?
20:17:24 <Leonard> https://www.meetup.com/Silicon-Valley-HTML5-WebGL-Meetup/events/275828660/?refund_policy=true&rv=ea1_v2&_xtd=gatlbWFpbF9jbGlja9oAJDdiYTVkYzlmLTY3ZTYtNDU3Ni05Nzk4LWJhN2U4ZWY4ODgxNw&utm_campaign=event-announce&_af=event&_af_eid=275828660&utm_medium=email&response=3&action=rsvp&utm_source=promo
20:17:49 <Leonard> https://www.awexr.com/global/AWE-Nite-Producing-High-Impact-WebAR-Campaigns
20:18:30 <ada> ack Leonard
20:18:33 <ada> ack dino
20:18:33 <Zakim> dino, you wanted to speak after discussion
20:18:50 <Leonard> Dino: Qs to Brandon:
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20:19:39 <Leonard> ...1: Less VR and more AR. Who other than Occulus are making VR browsers?
20:19:44 <bajones> q+ to answer Dean's question about Chrome/AR/VR
20:20:36 <Leonard> ... From developers at Apple, a lot of people want to embed a web-view into AR apps. Problem with flatness of web vs. 3D of AR
20:21:12 <Leonard> Ada: To clarify: want DOM to texture or DOM layer?
20:21:53 <Leonard> Dino: Have a plan that displays a browser. Now put 3D into the browser display -- what happens? Not trivial
20:24:18 <Leonard> Brandon: A to #1-- Google seeing shift to AR. Still supporting VR on mobile and desktop. Moving internal resources to AR.
20:24:39 <RafaelCintron> q+
20:25:06 <Leonard> ... Microsoft expanding on open-source capabilities of Chromium. Google is the only one who can work on ARCore.
20:25:45 <Leonard> ... Like to see more players in VR side of things. Occulus needs competition to make things better.
20:26:08 <alcooper> alcooper has joined #immersive-web
20:27:32 <Leonard> ... A #2: ZSpace has a stererstopic display that works.
20:28:10 <Leonard> Rik: Other companies: a lot of HPC sets sold at Christmas
20:28:50 <Leonard> ... Immersive video provides a lot of use of VR
20:29:02 <bajones> I concur! The input profiles have been a resounding success!
20:29:35 <Leonard> ... Most complaints are about performance. Frame rate causes problems for h/w with keeping up or heat.
20:29:41 <bajones> q+ to ask Rik about any insight into performance bottlenecks.
20:29:56 <Leonard> ... No real complaints about API
20:30:02 <ada> rik cabanier
20:30:09 <ada> ack cabanier
20:30:28 <ada> s/rik/ack/
20:30:32 <ada> ack bajones
20:30:32 <Zakim> bajones, you wanted to answer Dean's question about Chrome/AR/VR and to ask Rik about any insight into performance bottlenecks.
20:31:03 <Leonard> Brandon: Where are the bottlenecks comming from? Have people done performance anaylsis
20:31:36 <Leonard> Rik: <broken-up> ... about device not keeping up with head motion
20:31:56 <Leonard> ... Web workers with a lot of other computations (physics, etc.) cause problems
20:33:13 <Leonard> Brandon: Good insight. Move to WebGL2; however, not Safari supported (currently). Updates coming.
20:33:42 <ada> q?
20:33:46 <ada> ack RafaelCintron
20:34:24 <Leonard> Rafael: Microsoft ship Edge (VR browser) and mixed reality headset. Moving Edge to work on Hololens.
20:34:52 <Leonard> ... Developers want more feature parity with native apps. +1 for better performance need.
20:35:03 <ada> q+ to ask about navigation
20:35:45 <Nick-8thWall> q+
20:35:59 <ada> ack ada
20:35:59 <Zakim> ada, you wanted to ask about navigation
20:36:00 <Leonard> ... Complaints for 2D layers, especially for 2D Canvas. Video too.
20:36:44 <Leonard> Ada: Difficult to create single large scene and have it performant. Would it be possible to navigate with "teleporting"
20:36:46 <bajones> q+ to talk navigation
20:36:50 <Leonard> ... to reduce the scene size and load
20:36:51 <ada> ack Nick-8thWall
20:37:46 <laford> +q
20:38:20 <Leonard> Nick: Would like to see: ARCore features - depth sensing, camera texture, curved image targets embedded (images on curved surfaces)
20:38:22 <Leonard> q+
20:39:12 <Leonard> ... access to scene that is currently being rendered
20:39:30 <Leonard> ... DOM overlay does not always work on some phones
20:40:01 <Leonard> ... WebXR developers seem to have usability issues, especially around scale.
20:40:12 <Leonard> ... Q for Brandon & Rik.
20:40:26 <Leonard> ... --> Rik: What kinds of videos are you seeing?
20:40:47 <Leonard> ... --> Brandon: Expected winds for WebGL2. Not at all obvious
20:41:12 <Leonard> <someone>: <broken>
20:41:23 <Leonard> Brandon: WebGL2 worse is not expected
20:41:45 <Leonard> Rik: Seeing immersive video being used
20:41:57 <Leonard> Brandon: Agrees with Rik
20:42:21 <jgilbert> (someone => jgilbert: We expect zero perf regression in webgl2 vs webgl1. If you see any, file a bug immediately)
20:44:12 <Leonard> ... For WebGL2 -- there are a number of content that are JS bound. WebGL2 reduces the JS load and draw calls. If there are bandwidth
20:44:24 <Leonard> ... limitations there are a more limited options
20:44:53 <Leonard> WebGPU timing? Tossed to Jeff
20:45:25 <Leonard> Jeff: Late 2021.
20:46:51 <Leonard> ... Don't build a product yet. Things will break between now and public ship/release date.
20:47:01 <ada> q?
20:47:47 <Leonard> q-
20:48:17 <ada> ack bajones
20:48:17 <Zakim> bajones, you wanted to talk navigation
20:49:16 <Leonard> Brandon: Navigation may or may not help with performance. It depends on the supporting libraries (culling), and how much
20:49:38 <Leonard> ... web access and texture loading is needed
20:50:09 <ada> ack laford
20:50:10 <Leonard> ... may cause more problems than a single scene
20:50:51 <Leonard> Lachlan Ford: Big problem is filling pixels (as Brandon mentioned).
20:51:28 <Leonard> Ada pushes another issue to next time...
20:52:47 <Leonard> Ada: Accessibility for WebXR. Need someway to get screen readers to handle arbitrary text. Don't know where to start
20:53:23 <Leonard> ... Great if browser could render titles/notes/CC rather than the developer/application
20:53:24 <Leonard> q+
20:54:21 <ada> https://github.com/immersive-web/layers/issues/239
20:54:35 <ada> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1158
20:55:21 <ada> ack Leonard
20:55:30 <Leonard> Leonard: Are you referring to text in tags (e.g., title) or direct text into the scene?
20:56:57 <Leonard> Ada: Text in attributes could go through text to speech, but different than a screen reader. Requires developer to initiate vocalizations
20:57:47 <Leonard> ... (claify) use user's assistive technology, not developer's choice
20:58:13 <laford> link me!
20:58:18 <Leonard> Rik: Discord for developers
20:58:28 <yonet> https://discord.com/invite/Jt5tfaM
21:08:16 <yonet> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:08:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/19-immersive-web-minutes.html yonet
21:09:21 <yonet> RRSAgent, publish minutes
21:09:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/19-immersive-web-minutes.html yonet
21:33:21 <yonet> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
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23:59:59 <scribe> s/Scribe Leonard/scribe: Leonard/
23:59:59 <scribe> s|https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/cg/2021-01-19-Immersive_Web_Community_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md||
23:59:59 <scribe> s|Item: |topic: Platform/Framework Feedback (administrivia #147|
23:59:59 <scribe> meeting: Immersive Web WG/CG
23:59:59 <scribe> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2020/12/15-immersive-web-minutes.html
23:59:59 <scribe> s/Lachlan Ford:/Lachlan_Ford:/