IRC log of silver on 2021-01-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:48:35 [RRSAgent]
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18:48:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-irc
18:48:37 [SuzanneTaylor]
SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver
18:48:38 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
18:48:39 [Zakim]
Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
18:48:48 [jeanne]
Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
18:48:48 [jeanne]
present:
18:48:48 [jeanne]
chair: Shawn, jeanne
18:48:48 [jeanne]
present+
18:48:48 [jeanne]
zakim, clear agenda
18:48:48 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:48:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne
18:48:48 [jeanne]
q?
18:48:48 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
18:51:03 [jeanne]
agenda+ reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC
18:51:03 [jeanne]
agenda+ Followup on improving asynchronous communication
18:51:03 [jeanne]
agenda+ Reminder of Teleconference meeting schedule change survey
18:51:03 [jeanne]
agenda+ Continue updates to Silver Requirements
18:59:16 [CharlesHall]
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18:59:24 [sajkaj]
sajkaj has joined #silver
18:59:33 [CharlesHall]
present+
18:59:35 [sajkaj]
present+
18:59:50 [CharlesHall]
late regrets, have to leave at 2:30p ET
19:00:00 [Fazio]
present+
19:00:52 [Jemma]
Jemma has joined #silver
19:01:00 [Jemma]
present+ Jemma
19:01:20 [sajkaj]
scribe: sajkaj
19:01:39 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 1
19:01:39 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC -- taken up [from jeanne]
19:01:57 [Jemma]
scribe: Jemma
19:02:00 [Jemma]
agenda?
19:03:00 [Jemma]
jeanne: CFC is out.
19:03:25 [jennifer]
jennifer has joined #silver
19:03:35 [KimD]
KimD has joined #silver
19:03:40 [jeanne]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Jan/0041.html
19:03:46 [jennifer]
present +
19:03:56 [KimD]
present+
19:04:12 [Wilco]
Wilco has joined #silver
19:04:16 [Wilco]
present+
19:04:48 [Jemma]
CFC is more of +1 or not (such as you cannot leave with it).
19:05:01 [Jemma]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:05:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html Jemma
19:05:06 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 2
19:05:06 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- Followup on improving asynchronous communication -- taken up [from jeanne]
19:06:25 [Jemma]
jeanne: we had good responses about ways we can encourage people to contribue more in spite of challenges like time conflict or time zone.
19:07:09 [Fazio]
q+
19:07:13 [Jemma]
..there are also suggestions for different tools as well as a11y concerns for the tool.
19:08:06 [sajkaj]
+1 to DF
19:08:26 [KimD]
+1 to DF
19:09:00 [jennifer]
Q+
19:09:05 [Jemma]
fazio: adding more tools such as slack and communication channels really make things complex. It is also challenging for the people with congnitive disabilities and more.
19:09:28 [jeanne]
ack faz
19:10:20 [Wilco]
q+
19:10:28 [jeanne]
ack jenn
19:10:34 [Fazio]
Agreed it's difficult to include everyone
19:10:36 [Jemma]
jeanee: context of the discussion - how to integrate people in 20 + timezone and encourage more participation
19:11:10 [Jemma]
jennifer: agree with what Jeanne and David said above.
19:11:18 [CharlesHall]
q+
19:11:24 [Jemma]
s/jeanee/jeanne
19:11:40 [Fazio]
On the same note It's impossible to include everyone
19:11:51 [Rachael]
q+
19:11:56 [CharlesHall]
+1 to Jennifer’s point on email not consistently threaded
19:12:35 [Jan]
Jan has joined #silver
19:12:54 [Jan]
present+ Jan
19:13:00 [Jemma]
jenifer: I thought having one place to follow up everything rather than search email box. IMy suggestion is more like creating "problem space"
19:13:12 [Jemma]
s/search/searching
19:13:20 [Fazio]
My concern is micro-conversations taking place on informal channels that might be missed by the formal participants
19:13:24 [KimD]
+1 to Jennifer's comment - very hard to sort/thread emails because the titles aren't consistent
19:13:54 [jeanne]
ack wil
19:15:46 [jennifer]
As a new contributor with a TBI+CPTSD, I'm struggling to understand the emails. There seems to be three different "areas" that I'm getting emails for, with different meeting times. However, I haven't figured out what all the meeting times are — from the emails or the webpage. All the "regrets" and responses to emails add more, as I am unable to pipe in without context, and context is difficult to find.
19:15:54 [Jemma]
wilco: based on my asynchronos working experience, it helped to work more items and resolve timezone and other challegnes. we may have a central place members can send the feedback and follow up on the processes.
19:16:00 [sajkaj]
q+
19:16:35 [jennifer]
I had the idea that a tool like Slack or Teams or Github would provide a single source of truth, where folks can contribute asynchronously with a record maintained.
19:16:55 [jeanne]
ack char
19:17:52 [Wilco]
+1 e-mail is awful for this type of work
19:18:12 [Jemma]
charles: pain of calendaring, inefficiency of email threading and so on is difficult to follow up issues .
19:18:35 [jennifer]
+1 regarding email being poor for this. +1 to Github being helpful in other endeavors I've participated in.
19:19:34 [Rachael]
Need for longer time to engage and respond, need for in person support to help with understanding, Need for a way to find things, need for an easy way to track high priority decisions at an appropriate engagement point, COGA members find Github very difficult
19:19:36 [jeanne]
ack rachael
19:20:06 [Jemma]
charles: My idea was based on having some asynchronos method which will be beneficial to the members so that they can catch up with issues and reponses without personal situation such as new employment and more.
19:20:22 [Jemma]
..rather than suggesting tool solution.
19:21:34 [jeanne]
ack saj
19:21:46 [Jemma]
rachael: less technical solution will be more beneficial in terms of COGA
19:22:00 [Fazio]
q+1 Janina as usual
19:22:16 [Fazio]
+1 Janina as usual
19:22:25 [jennifer]
Q+ (to respond re threading)
19:22:35 [jennifer]
Q+
19:24:37 [Fazio]
q+
19:25:01 [KimD]
+1 to Janina (good topic on email won't prohibit the email content wandering off topic)
19:25:24 [Jemma]
sajkaj: we can see this from 3 perspective, techincal setting( ex;times zone setting) + process side of cfc + potential for content deviation in any platform.
19:25:37 [jeanne]
ack jenn
19:26:20 [Wilco]
q+
19:27:30 [Jemma]
Jennifer: I found threading by topic in slack can be beneficial. I may try to have designated email box for threading purpose.
19:28:08 [CharlesHall]
a personal challenge i have is device. meetings and email are more restrictive, where i have greater access across more devices using other tools.
19:28:13 [CharlesHall]
sorry, i have to drop @2:30
19:28:58 [Jemma]
sajkaj: filtering rules and different view setup may be helpful.
19:29:34 [Jemma]
Jennifer: I had the problem with those rule settings and more in mobile device.
19:29:40 [jennifer]
Device is likely my issue, too, as I primarily do email on my mobile device — and it ignores the rules I set. Mobile device allows me to narrow focus to help my cognitive considerations.
19:29:46 [jeanne]
ack faz
19:29:51 [jeanne]
agenda?
19:30:01 [Jemma]
david: 1. participation factor- huge group
19:30:34 [Jemma]
WG members and Community groups members.
19:31:45 [Jemma]
2. moving different platform will also pose challenges for the people which we are not sure to participate the meeting.
19:31:58 [Jemma]
s/which/. also
19:32:24 [jeanne]
ack wilco
19:32:58 [jennifer]
Q+
19:33:19 [Jemma]
wilco: challenge for lack of moderator, labeling issues may not be enough with email system
19:33:24 [Fazio]
but if we push for personalization, which we do in coga, email filters are better
19:33:27 [jeanne]
ack jenn
19:33:35 [jeanne]
zakim, close queue
19:33:35 [Zakim]
ok, jeanne, the speaker queue is closed
19:33:46 [sajkaj]
Note to moderated tooling: We can do that with email, too
19:34:20 [Fazio]
+1
19:34:22 [Jemma]
jennifer: I support what David and Wilco mentioned
19:34:28 [Jemma]
zakim, next item
19:34:28 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC -- taken up [from jeanne]
19:34:39 [Jemma]
zakim, take up item 3
19:34:39 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- Reminder of Teleconference meeting schedule change survey -- taken up [from jeanne]
19:34:45 [jeanne]
zakim, take up next
19:34:45 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, jeanne
19:35:22 [jeanne]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2021Jan/0033.html
19:35:31 [Jemma]
jeanne: reminder to respond the teleconference meeting schedule survey
19:35:54 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/94845/schedule-Jan2021/
19:36:30 [Jemma]
no questions on the survey from the group
19:36:33 [jeanne]
zakim, take up next
19:36:33 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC -- taken up [from jeanne]
19:36:43 [jeanne]
zakim, close item 1
19:36:43 [Zakim]
agendum 1, reminder of Silver Decision Policy CFC, closed
19:36:44 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
19:36:44 [Zakim]
4. Continue updates to Silver Requirements [from jeanne]
19:36:52 [jeanne]
zakim, take up next
19:36:52 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- Continue updates to Silver Requirements -- taken up [from jeanne]
19:37:10 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-silver-minutes.html#t04
19:37:27 [Fazio]
+1 me too
19:37:35 [Wilco]
/me me 3, they're nice
19:37:39 [Jemma]
jeanne: btwm I am enjoying new minutes format.
19:37:49 [Jemma]
https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-silver-minutes.html#t04
19:37:54 [Jemma]
s/btwm/btw
19:38:56 [jeanne]
Proposal: All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance may use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities can be included. This includes particular attention to
19:38:56 [jeanne]
accessibility for limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities, whose needs can be better met with a broad testing approach.
19:39:46 [sajkaj]
Suggest moving "... may use other ..." to "... will use other ..."
19:39:53 [Wilco]
q+
19:40:14 [Fazio]
should we mention that
19:40:26 [Fazio]
q+
19:40:44 [jeanne]
ack wil
19:40:50 [Jemma]
sajkaj: we need to put emphasis that we are leaving the binary world, just pass and fail
19:40:58 [sajkaj]
+1 to Wilco
19:41:07 [jeanne]
ack faz
19:41:28 [Jemma]
whose needs "can be" better met with a broad testing approach as "may be"
19:41:30 [Rachael]
q+
19:41:49 [jeanne]
ack racha
19:42:20 [Jemma]
wilko: I would like to suggest add hard of hearing to cover more disability.
19:42:31 [sajkaj]
q+
19:43:47 [Jemma]
rachael: because those two groups, accessibility for limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities, have more challenges than other groups.
19:43:53 [jeanne]
ack saj
19:46:53 [Fazio]
It helps confirm comprehension
19:48:17 [Jemma]
saj: hard of hearing is addressed at media a11y so on.. It is not correct that there is less need for hard of hearing just because there is no taskforce on the topic. Actually there was a compliant at WAI list why there is no voice synchronization in WCAG. therefore, Time text issue was addressed
19:49:02 [Fazio]
+1 to broader approach
19:49:05 [Jemma]
+q
19:49:12 [Jemma]
q+
19:49:33 [Fazio]
That was a part of the charter approval
19:49:41 [Fazio]
this last time around
19:49:47 [jeanne]
ack jemma
19:49:51 [sajkaj]
jema: Thanks janina for description of work on hearing and deaf needs
19:50:15 [sajkaj]
jema: And now understand the list in the statement isn't dispositive but exemplary
19:50:36 [sajkaj]
jema: It just needs to be clear what is meant
19:50:42 [Fazio]
I'll look for the charter reference
19:50:58 [Rachael]
Suggestion: This includes particular attention to those disabilities whose needs can better be met with a broad testing approach, such as those with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities.
19:51:24 [Fazio]
I'd omit disability
19:51:55 [Rachael]
Suggestion: This includes particular attention to those whose needs can better be met with a broad testing approach, such as those with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities.
19:52:01 [Rachael]
q+
19:52:27 [jeanne]
ack rach
19:52:43 [jeanne]
All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance will use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities can be included. This includes particular attention to those disabilities
19:52:43 [jeanne]
whose needs can better be met with a broad testing approach, such as those with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities.
19:52:49 [Jemma]
agenda?
19:53:36 [Jemma]
I support the rephrase of the sentence. thanks Jeanne!
19:53:36 [Rachael]
q+
19:53:50 [jeanne]
ack rach
19:54:55 [Jemma]
rachael: note has the standing for sure. r
19:55:00 [Jemma]
s/r/
19:55:51 [Rachael]
Rachael: W3 notes are sometimes referenced so concern is warranted. Fine line with wording needed as we have to recongnize a need to imrpove but at the same time recognize the incredible value and importance of WCAG 2. I think this wording walks that line.
19:56:12 [Fazio]
0
19:56:18 [KimD]
+1 to Rachael
19:57:03 [jeanne]
All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance will use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities may be included. This includes particular attention to those disabilities
19:57:03 [jeanne]
whose needs can better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities.
19:57:07 [Jemma]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:57:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html Jemma
19:57:18 [sajkaj]
+1
19:57:29 [Jemma]
+1
19:57:33 [Rachael]
q+ to say the change from may use true/false to will use true/false didn't happen
19:57:36 [jennifer]
+1
19:58:18 [Rachael]
q-
19:58:41 [jeanne]
All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance will use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities may be included. This includes particular attention to those disabilities
19:58:41 [jeanne]
whose needs may better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities.
19:58:49 [jennifer]
+1
19:58:49 [sajkaj]
+1
19:58:53 [Jemma]
+1
19:58:54 [Fazio]
0
19:58:59 [KimD]
The wording is off... I think the first "disabilities" needs to be deleted.
20:00:46 [jeanne]
This includes particular attention to those people with disabilities whose needs may better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities.
20:00:55 [Fazio]
LOL
20:00:59 [Jan]
I have to drop for another meeting. Agree with Janina about not using "those."
20:01:58 [jeanne]
continue on Tuesday.
20:02:03 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:02:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne
20:02:11 [KimD]
I think: This includes particular attention to people whose needs may better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities.
20:02:56 [jeanne]
Proposed for next week: All Silver guidance includes tests or procedures. Some guidance may use true/false verification but other guidance will use other ways of measuring (for example: rubrics, sliding scale, task-completion, user research with people with disabilities, and more) where appropriate so that more needs of people with disabilities may be included. This includes particular
20:02:56 [jeanne]
attention to people whose needs may better be met with a broad testing approach, such as people with low vision, limited vision, and cognitive and learning disabilities.
20:06:54 [Jemma]
s/make things/make things be complex
20:08:48 [Jemma]
s/I found threading/I found that threading
20:09:28 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:09:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne
20:10:07 [Jemma]
s/also we are not sure/Also we are not sure how many those people will
20:11:56 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:11:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne
20:12:14 [KimD]
KimD has left #silver
20:13:44 [Jemma]
s/put emphasis/put an emphasis
20:16:45 [Jemma]
s/+q/
20:17:31 [Jemma]
s/have more challenges than other groups. /have more challenges than other groups with existing WCAG
20:17:48 [Jemma]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:17:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html Jemma
20:19:00 [Jemma]
s/have more challenges than other groups/have more challenges than other groups with existing WCAG
20:20:43 [Jemma]
present+ Rachael
20:22:01 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:22:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html jeanne
20:24:18 [Jemma]
regret+ ToddLibby, AngelaHooker, BruceBailey, ChrisLouiselle, KornPeter
20:24:39 [Jemma]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:24:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-silver-minutes.html Jemma
20:36:14 [SuzanneTaylor]
SuzanneTaylor has joined #silver