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14:26:39 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:26:40 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
14:27:15 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2021-01-15: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub-wg/2021Jan/0030.html
14:27:16 <ivan> Chair: dauwhe
14:27:16 <ivan> Date: 2021-01-15
14:27:16 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub-wg/2021Jan/0030.html
14:27:16 <ivan> Meeting: EPUB 3 Working Group Telco
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15:02:25 <CharlesL> present+
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15:02:34 <wendyreid> topic: MathML CG
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15:02:37 <ivan> present+ hadrien
15:02:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
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15:02:47 <wendyreid> dauwhe: We have a last minute change to the agenda
15:02:59 <wendyreid> ... members of the soon to be MathML WG visiting today
15:03:02 <laurent_> present+
15:03:07 <wendyreid> ... their charter is being written and reviewed
15:03:11 <Teenya> present+
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15:03:26 <duga> present+
15:03:27 <wendyreid> ... we thought this would be a good time to meet with the EPUBWG and share information on the scope and nature of the work
15:03:33 <wendyreid> ... there's many publishers that use MathML
15:03:40 <wendyreid> ... and math conventions
15:03:48 <ivan> present+ Louis_Maher
15:03:52 <wendyreid> ... it makes sense to share information on our use cases
15:03:56 <ivan> present+ Sydnee
15:04:03 <wendyreid> ... I am very excited by this new energy around math
15:04:06 <ivan> present+ Brian_Kardell
15:04:23 <wendyreid> NeilS: Two main prongs to the charter
15:04:25 <dauwhe> https://mathml-refresh.github.io/charter-drafts/math-2020.html
15:04:30 <ivan> guest+ Brian_Kardell
15:04:35 <wendyreid> ... MathML Core: Igalia is leading this work
15:04:41 <wendyreid> ... getting MathML into browsers
15:04:48 <wendyreid> ... integrate with the existing tech stack
15:04:59 <Garth> present+ Garth
15:05:02 <wendyreid> ... we are running into the constraints of the browsers
15:05:07 <ivan> present+ brady
15:05:12 <ivan> present+ charles
15:05:14 <wendyreid> ... other prong is to improve accessibility, search, and computability
15:05:19 <wendyreid> ... allowing author intent
15:05:26 <wendyreid> ... disabiguate what something means
15:05:42 <wendyreid> ... if you had vertical bars around content, it could be an absolute value, or something else
15:05:50 <wendyreid> ... screenreaders can guess, but its a guess
15:06:00 <wendyreid> ... we want to allow authors to clarify that meaning
15:06:16 <wendyreid> ... that's the high level overview
15:06:21 <wendyreid> ... open to questions
15:06:23 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:06:27 <ivan> present+ gpellegrino
15:07:02 <wendyreid> Brian: Just wanted to correct one thing, the current and near-future of browsers are the target of MathML Core level 1
15:07:11 <dauwhe> q+
15:07:12 <wendyreid> ... as things grow and change, we can grow with them
15:07:29 <dauwhe> ack Bill
15:07:42 <tzviya> q+ to ask about LaTeX
15:07:44 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: Thanks for joining, do you want to make any comments on backwards compatiblity
15:07:53 <wendyreid> NeilS: There are things that aren't in Core
15:07:57 <wendyreid> ... there is a level 2 planned
15:08:07 <wendyreid> ... we want to get something out now instead of waiting
15:08:15 <wendyreid> ... there are polyfills for the differences
15:08:25 <wendyreid> ... there's a few things in MathML that are obscure and never implemented
15:08:31 <ivan> q+
15:08:32 <wendyreid> ... many of the polyfills are deprecated
15:08:41 <wendyreid> ... many things still work, but some javascript may be required
15:08:51 <wendyreid> ... the idea of core is that the stuff people use will be supported
15:09:00 <wendyreid> ... fractions, square roots, etc
15:09:05 <Garth> q+
15:09:06 <wendyreid> ... line breaking is in level 2
15:09:17 <wendyreid> ... mfenced is going away to be replaced by a polyfill
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15:09:30 <wendyreid> ... if you're willing to use those, it will be the same
15:09:34 <Garth> q-
15:09:41 <wendyreid> ... for Core, it covers about 95-98% of what you want
15:09:55 <wendyreid> Brian: We based a lot of this on what MathML is in use in the market
15:09:58 <dauwhe> q-
15:10:33 <wendyreid> NeilS: Bevelled fractions, for example, I thought it was common, but in the research we found it's rarely used
15:10:40 <dauwhe> ack tz
15:10:40 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask about LaTeX
15:10:45 <wendyreid> tzviya: I have a few questions
15:10:48 <wendyreid> ... first about authoring
15:11:05 <wendyreid> ... are the workflows maintainable?
15:11:16 <wendyreid> NeilS: David Farmer is on the call, he works on PreText
15:11:54 <wendyreid> DavidF: The Math in PreText, designed to convert to any output, PDF, HTML, EPUB, braille
15:12:12 <wendyreid> ... the way we do HTML is to use pretext?? and then add mathjax
15:12:22 <wendyreid> ... we are working on an easier way for authors to write content
15:12:26 <wendyreid> ... many textbooks in math
15:12:46 <wendyreid> ... learning latex is a hurdle, we want to make it simpler
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15:13:01 <wendyreid> ... for accessibility we want to simplify
15:13:08 <wendyreid> tzviya: I don't want a new tool
15:13:25 <wendyreid> ... if an author wants to write in Latec, they will
15:13:36 <ivan> s/Latec/LaTeX/
15:13:48 <wendyreid> ... what would be helpful for me (Wiley Scholarly), is to talk to us directly
15:13:55 <wendyreid> ... how to incorporate into the tool chain
15:14:08 <wendyreid> Brian: The goal is not to lose author information
15:14:28 <wendyreid> ... flow from author, to latex, to the screenreader
15:14:36 <wendyreid> ... if the author has some intent, let them express it
15:15:07 <wendyreid> DavidF: It's still Latex, but we're considering the steps between
15:15:21 <wendyreid> NeilS: Please get in touch
15:15:31 <dauwhe> q?
15:15:34 <dauwhe> ack ivan
15:15:34 <wendyreid> Brian: In terms of existing tool chains, things should work as before if not better
15:15:39 <wendyreid> ivan: Two questions
15:15:58 <wendyreid> ... one: in terms of the standard and implementation, are you keeping the content markup and presentation markup?
15:16:09 <wendyreid> NeilS: We have no intention of doing anything to content
15:16:17 <wendyreid> ... presentation and content MathML will continue to exist
15:16:29 <wendyreid> ... dealing with author intent, incorporates all of content MathML
15:16:35 <wendyreid> ... threads the content tree
15:16:38 <dauwhe> q?
15:16:51 <wendyreid> ... that may at some point replace content MathML, for now we are keeping it
15:16:51 <dauwhe> q+
15:16:57 <wendyreid> ivan: Other question is practical
15:17:03 <wendyreid> ... can you speak to the timeline?
15:17:19 <wendyreid> ... when do you plan to publish the new recommendations, and implementation?
15:17:32 <wendyreid> ... this WG relies on what you do, as do the reading systems
15:17:40 <wendyreid> ... they would love to incorporate core
15:17:54 <wendyreid> NeilS: Going from memory, roughly Core will be out first
15:18:11 <wendyreid> ... mostly already written, another year or so to release
15:18:18 <wendyreid> ... CR in 6 moths
15:18:25 <wendyreid> s/moths/months
15:18:43 <wendyreid> ... we've been exploring other ideas, and the publication schedule is closer to the end of the charter
15:18:56 <wendyreid> ... math player accessibility, working on the replacement for that now
15:19:04 <wendyreid> ... developing as we finalize intent
15:19:11 <wendyreid> ... NVDA will pick up all of that
15:19:35 <wendyreid> ... as will ORCA, possibly JAWS, I have asked
15:19:43 <wendyreid> ... Apple is a mystery
15:20:27 <wendyreid> NeilS: Also spoke to the mathjax folks, the core work doesn't replace their work, but it might result in a new backend renderer, faster
15:20:41 <dauwhe> q?
15:20:44 <wendyreid> ... likely won't switch until browsers are implemented
15:20:51 <wendyreid> ivan: What can this group do to help?
15:21:18 <wendyreid> ... help with testing, review, support?
15:21:30 <wendyreid> NeilS: I don't think there's anything before going to charter, aside from sign off
15:21:41 <wendyreid> ... but as we get into development, comments on publisher needs
15:21:50 <wendyreid> ... trying things out once implementations are out there
15:22:06 <wendyreid> ivan: Is EPUB WG listed as a liaison?
15:22:11 <wendyreid> NeilS: You're listed
15:22:22 <wendyreid> dauwhe: We're doing it already!
15:22:29 <Hadrien> present+
15:22:40 <wendyreid> ... A lot of people who use EPUB are educational publishers at all levels
15:22:54 <wendyreid> ... is there a lot of support for pedagogical notation?
15:22:59 <wendyreid> ... I mostly work on novels
15:23:29 <wendyreid> ... just wondering about the teaching additions
15:23:39 <wendyreid> Brian: There's a lot of different textbooks
15:23:40 <George> q+
15:23:46 <wendyreid> ... there's not elementary math
15:23:53 <ivan> ack dauwhe
15:24:11 <wendyreid> dauwhe: Long division with things crossed out to show places and things
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15:24:28 <tzviya> q+
15:24:34 <wendyreid> NeilS: That was in MathML 3, but there's no browser supports, it might change if there's need
15:24:57 <wendyreid> Brian: The thing with that is finding someone to express the priority and achieve them
15:24:59 <wendyreid> NeilS: Fund them
15:25:18 <wendyreid> dauwhe: If you want stuff in MathML, Brian can make them happen, with some help
15:25:31 <ivan> guest+ Murray_Sargent
15:25:33 <wendyreid> Brian: It can be difficult to know what is important without people asking for them
15:25:49 <dauwhe> q?
15:25:50 <wendyreid> ... standards is a small group of people doing the work and owning it forever,
15:25:51 <ivan> present+ laurent
15:26:04 <wendyreid> ... from a practical standpoint, we need to know what is important
15:26:18 <wendyreid> ... given the parameters we have now
15:26:22 <dauwhe> ack George
15:26:32 <wendyreid> George: At EPUBTest we have a math sample book
15:26:36 <wendyreid> ... we are reporting results
15:26:45 <wendyreid> ... support by reading systems and screenreaders
15:26:52 <wendyreid> ... visual presentation and AT support
15:26:58 <dauwhe> http://epubtest.org/test-books
15:27:06 <dauwhe> q?
15:27:07 <wendyreid> ... I can't wait to see the changes as it's better supported by Chrome
15:27:18 <wendyreid> ... we still have chem on the web in publishing group happening
15:27:27 <wendyreid> ... great to see the semantics of chemistry included
15:27:29 <wendyreid> ... great work!
15:27:30 <dauwhe> ack tz
15:27:36 <wendyreid> tzviya: In terms of elementary math vs other math
15:27:54 <wendyreid> ... this group doesn't have elementary (primary) mathematics
15:27:57 <dauwhe> q?
15:28:20 <wendyreid> ... I could help get samples from Cengage, McGraw-Hill
15:28:33 <wendyreid> ... I have samples ranging from college to nobel prize winners
15:28:50 <wendyreid> ... we can give you the samples, I know you have done research, but we can provide even more
15:28:53 <dauwhe> q?
15:29:00 <wendyreid> ... we have a large community
15:29:08 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
15:29:23 <wendyreid> NeilS: Please support the charter!
15:30:04 <wendyreid> dauwhe: If you're an AC rep, or ask your nicely
15:30:09 <wendyreid> ... bake them cookies
15:30:30 <CharlesL> q?
15:30:43 <dauwhe> ack Bill
15:31:01 <dauwhe> q?
15:31:02 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: Quick, if you want elementary math, I can get the people from the conversion/pre-press houses
15:31:10 <wendyreid> ... some are now members
15:31:20 <wendyreid> NeilS: There's a polyfill for it, so I'd love testers
15:31:39 <wendyreid> dauwhe: We're here and we're happy to help
15:32:32 <wendyreid> topic, Testing
15:33:07 <ivan> s/topic,/topic:/
15:33:17 <wendyreid> dauwhe: Do we have any new members?
15:33:31 <Bert> Bert has left #epub
15:33:34 <wendyreid> ... moving on to the regular agenda
15:33:39 <wendyreid> ... I wanted to talk about testing again
15:33:47 <wendyreid> ... we had hoped for a testing champion
15:33:51 <wendyreid> ... in the short term it is me
15:34:01 <wendyreid> ... I have a strange fascination with writing tests for EPUB
15:34:03 <wendyreid> ... I have start
15:34:10 <wendyreid> s/start/started
15:34:20 <wendyreid> ... I am not sure if these will be used as CR exit criteria
15:34:27 <wendyreid> ... but we can use them to learn about the spec
15:34:30 <wendyreid> ... and make it better
15:34:47 <wendyreid> ... I have been going through the RS spec and writing tests
15:34:54 <wendyreid> ... working on a script felt premature
15:34:56 <dauwhe> https://github.com/dauwhe/epub-tests
15:35:02 <wendyreid> ... EPUB is weird and there's a lot of interaction
15:35:08 <wendyreid> ... this is in a fork of the testing repo
15:35:12 <dauwhe> https://github.com/dauwhe/epub-tests/blob/main/epub-test-notes.md
15:35:31 <wendyreid> ... extracting normative statements from the spec
15:35:35 <wendyreid> ... write a test for it
15:35:39 <wendyreid> ... and add it to the list
15:35:49 <wendyreid> ... I've been running into some interesting issues that I wanted to discuss
15:36:12 <wendyreid> ... one thing that this has done has reminded me how much of the spec has not been implemeneted
15:36:19 <wendyreid> ... biggest example is manifest fallbacks
15:36:31 <wendyreid> ... at least among the commerical/trade oriented RSs
15:36:36 <wendyreid> ... very little support
15:36:47 <wendyreid> ... not supported in Thorium, Apple Books, etc
15:37:03 <wendyreid> ... I have tests that show RSs aren't processing manifest fallbacks at all
15:37:17 <wendyreid> ... one interesting consequence is looking at the way RSs handle foreign resources
15:37:29 <wendyreid> ... test where I had a JSON content doc with an xhtml fallback
15:37:37 <wendyreid> ... I have a few RSs where they display the JSON
15:37:47 <wendyreid> ... throw it in a webview and see what happens
15:37:54 <wendyreid> ... this seems incongruent with the spec
15:38:08 <wendyreid> ... RSs are just trying to display the content no matter what
15:38:18 <wendyreid> ... I made a bunch of manifest fallbacks with XML
15:38:26 <wendyreid> ... they'll show the content, a tree view
15:38:36 <wendyreid> ... that seems odd
15:38:56 <wendyreid> ... I suspect I'll run into the same thing with linked metadata records
15:39:03 <wendyreid> ... order of priorities of those
15:39:08 <wendyreid> ... haven't seen support for this
15:39:24 <wendyreid> ... I wanted to mention to the WG that we have these areas of little implementation
15:39:38 <wendyreid> ... another issue is that we have a number of normative statements that feel hard to test
15:39:55 <Garth> q?
15:39:59 <wendyreid> ... we had to set it up this was, a EPUB 3 RS must process the container etc
15:40:03 <Garth> q+
15:40:03 <wendyreid> ... meta safe statement
15:40:03 <tzviya> q+
15:40:12 <ivan> q+
15:40:14 <dauwhe> ack Gar
15:40:16 <duga> q+
15:40:44 <wendyreid> Garth: Assuming you're right and few commerical reading systems use fallbacks
15:40:51 <wendyreid> ... what do you think that means for us?
15:40:57 <wendyreid> ... we remove it from the spec
15:41:01 <wendyreid> ... or the opposite?
15:41:07 <wendyreid> dauwhe: I honestly don't know
15:41:15 <wendyreid> ... it touches on the concept of the core media type
15:41:20 <wendyreid> ... which is foundational to the idea of EPUB
15:41:25 <wendyreid> ... a CMT doesn't require a fallback
15:41:32 <wendyreid> ... but you also expect it to work
15:41:38 <wendyreid> ... this finding blurs that a little
15:41:51 <wendyreid> ... it's not a CMT, but the RS tries and fails in an odd way
15:41:53 <dauwhe> ack tz
15:42:00 <wendyreid> tzviya: I have a similar question to Garth
15:42:15 <wendyreid> ... I think we need to be careful that testability isn't the only thing to look for
15:42:26 <wendyreid> ... we're going to discover untestable things
15:42:28 <wendyreid> ... but EPUB works
15:42:41 <wendyreid> ... and we don't want to destroy something that works because it's hard to test
15:42:46 <wendyreid> ... I'm not sure what the best solution is
15:43:03 <wendyreid> ... maybe wordsmithing can help but won't help with the testing
15:43:25 <dauwhe> ack ivan
15:43:25 <wendyreid> dauwhe: It's a good illustration of remembering our larger goals
15:43:43 <CharlesL> q+
15:43:50 <Garth> q?
15:43:51 <wendyreid> ivan: Answer first, absolutely true that testability should not be the only criteria
15:44:06 <wendyreid> ... even in the audiobooks spec or others, where vocabularies were defined and testing unclear
15:44:34 <wendyreid> ... if there's features EPUB has, and are used, they must be part of the spec, it's on us to prove that for a feature there's a use
15:44:45 <wendyreid> ... that's a criteria we need to fold into our testing
15:44:48 <mgarrish> q+
15:45:06 <Hadrien> q+
15:45:11 <wendyreid> ... in the happy days of HTML5, and with versions of SVG, we did find features in both that were never implemented
15:45:35 <wendyreid> ... there's some nice features people planned, but they were removed from later versions because they were never implemented
15:45:47 <wendyreid> ... we would have to have a policy for features that haven't been used
15:46:04 <wendyreid> ... and aren't implemented practically in any reading system
15:46:07 <wendyreid> ... what do we do with them
15:46:23 <wendyreid> ... and what do we do with the backwards compatibility
15:46:37 <duga> q-
15:46:54 <wendyreid> ... we declare them as deprecated or dropped
15:47:04 <wendyreid> ... we cannot hope for every feature implemented by every RS
15:47:14 <wendyreid> ... but at least have reasonable coverage
15:47:25 <dauwhe> ack Charl
15:47:32 <Garth> q?
15:47:33 <wendyreid> CharlesL: When I was wearing my developer app
15:47:40 <wendyreid> ... for Java we had JUnit
15:47:46 <wendyreid> ... testing framework
15:47:57 <wendyreid> ... I am wondering if we need a unit test reading system
15:48:09 <wendyreid> ... testing for hard-to-test features
15:48:17 <wendyreid> ... we need to build a test reading system maybe
15:48:33 <dauwhe> ack mg
15:48:45 <Karen> Karen has joined #epub
15:48:51 <wendyreid> mgarrish: I think we probably need to look at or consider what features are foundational
15:48:55 <wendyreid> ... look for implementation
15:49:10 <wendyreid> ... removing manifest fallbacks opens up the spine, which could be a problem
15:49:17 <Garth> q+
15:49:20 <dauwhe> +1 to mg
15:49:25 <wendyreid> ... I'm all for removing things we don't need, but we have to be careful
15:49:30 <wendyreid> dauwhe: That's my concern as well
15:49:30 <tzviya> +1 to mgarrish
15:49:37 <wendyreid> ... this feels foundational
15:49:43 <wendyreid> ... but also neglected
15:49:46 <circularken_> +1 to mgarrish
15:49:49 <wendyreid> ... I don't want to remove this
15:50:05 <dauwhe> q?
15:50:10 <wendyreid> ... I want to find a way forward that acknowledges the reality but promotes interop
15:50:11 <dauwhe> ack Had
15:50:30 <wendyreid> Hadrien: I'm wondering if fallbacks are not used as extensibility for some environments
15:50:53 <wendyreid> ... I wouldn't be surprised where specific reading systems craft specific epubs with this in mind
15:51:06 <wendyreid> ... I do wonder what is the intent
15:51:12 <wendyreid> ... I don't remember where fallbacks came from
15:51:32 <wendyreid> ... if there's a new version of something like images or video, the fallback could be used to maintain compatibility
15:51:42 <wendyreid> ... but also could have extensibility
15:52:01 <wendyreid> ... reading systems might have these use cases, but they don't allow sideloading
15:52:12 <wendyreid> dauwhe: I hope we get to a point where we can pass these tests
15:52:13 <mgarrish> q+
15:52:20 <wendyreid> ... ADE supports the fallbacks
15:52:26 <wendyreid> ... and there's probably others
15:52:35 <wendyreid> ... gives us the opportunity not to mangle the spec
15:52:37 <dauwhe> ack gar
15:52:41 <wendyreid> ... and allows for the extensiblity
15:52:45 <wendyreid> Garth: I agree with Matt
15:52:55 <wendyreid> ... we need to be careful not to rip out foundational things
15:53:06 <wendyreid> ... CMTs and the fallback chain may not be foundational
15:53:23 <wendyreid> ... you may not have to lose CMTs with losing the fallback chain
15:53:38 <dauwhe> ack mg
15:53:38 <wendyreid> ... I think it's worth questioning
15:53:48 <wendyreid> mgarrish: Certainly there's ways of making things work
15:53:52 <wendyreid> ... it becomes complicated
15:54:01 <wendyreid> ... potentially invalidates content in the market
15:54:10 <wendyreid> ... I think we have to balance priorities
15:54:17 <wendyreid> ... further to Hadrien's point
15:54:24 <wendyreid> ... there's other systems that aren't on our radar
15:54:32 <wendyreid> ... libraries may be using linked metadata records
15:54:37 <ivan> q+
15:54:38 <wendyreid> ... it's a means of having the record travel
15:54:54 <wendyreid> ... there's lots of requirements on merging and consolidating that may not come into play
15:55:00 <wendyreid> ... there's use cases that may not be on our radar
15:55:22 <wendyreid> dauwhe: I think we'll be having lots of discussions like this
15:55:25 <dauwhe> ack ivan
15:55:29 <wendyreid> ... we don't have access to all useragents
15:55:36 <wendyreid> ivan: This reminds me of a question I was asked
15:55:50 <wendyreid> ... with web and HTML, a big search engine (i.e. google)
15:56:05 <wendyreid> ... could come back with data that says "25% of websites use x feature"
15:56:24 <wendyreid> ... there was an established way to have data like that
15:56:37 <wendyreid> ... but is there an equivalent for EPUB
15:56:46 <wendyreid> q+
15:56:48 <Garth> q?
15:56:49 <duga> q+
15:56:56 <wendyreid> dauwhe: We've done a little bit of this
15:57:13 <wendyreid> ... thanks to the goodwill of group members who have access to this data
15:57:24 <wendyreid> ... we can only do this in certain ways
15:57:30 <wendyreid> ... it's a lot easier to do on the web
15:57:31 <dauwhe> ack wen
15:58:31 <wendyreid> duga: The web and EPUB are just really different
15:58:34 <ivan> q+
15:58:38 <ivan> ack duga
15:58:44 <wendyreid> ... there's no "open EPUB" equivalent for the open web
15:58:48 <dauwhe> ack iv
15:58:54 <wendyreid> wendyreid: It just takes a lot of processing
15:59:00 <wendyreid> ivan: I expected that
15:59:10 <wendyreid> ... we may have to think about ways to achieve something like this
15:59:28 <wendyreid> ... we need to make some decisions feature by feature about what should or shouldn't be normative
15:59:33 <wendyreid> ... is it implemented or not
15:59:42 <wendyreid> ... implementability is not the only criteria
15:59:50 <wendyreid> ... we need ways to determine this
16:00:15 <Garth> q?
16:00:43 <wendyreid> dauwhe: Thanks for the good discussion, I'll be filing issues on the things I find to discuss them
16:00:47 <George> q+
16:00:49 <wendyreid> ... this will come up again!
16:00:51 <dauwhe> ack geor
16:01:33 <wendyreid> dauwhe: Thanks everyone, see you in a week!
16:01:49 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
16:01:49 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, juliette_mcshane, MattChan, avneeshsingh, ivan, MasakazuKitahara, wendyreid, Bert_Bos, toshiakikoike, tzviya, SteveNoble,
16:01:52 <Zakim> ... gpellegrino, CharlesL, mgarrish, BenSchroeter, hadrien, Bill_Kasdorf, laurent_, Teenya, duga, Louis_Maher, Sydnee, Brian_Kardell, Garth, brady
16:01:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:01:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/15-epub-minutes.html Zakim
16:01:55 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:02:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #epub