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20:00:50 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA and Assistive Technology Community Group
20:01:01 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Matt King
20:01:04 <Matt_King> present+
20:01:09 <JoeHumbert> present+
20:01:09 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make log public
20:01:16 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
20:01:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/14-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King
20:02:34 <michael_fairchild> present+
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20:07:23 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-at
20:07:39 <Jemma> present+
20:07:50 <jongund> present+ jongund
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20:09:44 <s3ththompson> preset+
20:09:47 <s3ththompson> present+
20:10:22 <Matt_King> TOPIC: Meeting Planning
20:10:28 <s3ththompson> scribe: s3ththompson
20:11:08 <rob-fentress> present+
20:11:22 <Jemma> present+
20:11:39 <Matt_King> present+ James
20:11:40 <jongund> present+ jongund
20:11:44 <Matt_King> present+ Sina
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20:15:27 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: how do we best organize sub-meetings for various different types of projects?
20:17:20 <s3ththompson> michael_fairchild: we had separate meetings at the end of last year for the AT Automation work...
20:17:46 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: could we make our App Development a public CG sub-meeting?
20:18:39 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: potentially, although our current App Development meeting with you is 50% client contractor check-in, 50% general interest... do we want to split that into 2 meetings, a public one and an ongoing Facebook/Bocoup one?
20:18:52 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: hmm, let's discuss at project kickoff
20:19:25 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: it seems like Test Writing, getting consensus around test format, etc. would be another topic area. Should the cadence change too?
20:20:05 <s3ththompson> Sina: yes, we could do a separate (weekly) Test Writing meeting... although it would be great too to have a monthly combined meeting of all of the sub-meetings
20:20:31 <s3ththompson> James: yes, and if we made this meeting the Test Writing meeting and it changed to weekly, we would feel more comfortable using up the available time in any one meeting
20:21:29 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: if this is the primary meeting that most CG group members attend, maybe there's a cadence where at the end of the month every sub-group reports... if someone has passing interest in multiple topics they could just come to this end of the month meeting
20:22:00 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: great, seems like there's consensus there... Sina, James, do you also want to take over running the meetings?
20:22:28 <s3ththompson> Sina: we would be happy to do that. It would be great to give priority to test writing for some of the weekly meetings
20:23:09 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: let's start that next week
20:25:26 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Meetings
20:25:41 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: would be great to signal whether a meeting is a wrap-up, combined meeting in the invite for people who maybe weren't here to hear this new schedule / organization
20:25:44 <Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/January-12%2C-2020-Agenda
20:27:42 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: let's move to using a wiki format like we do in aria-practices to record Meetings and Meeting Agendas
20:27:59 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: jongund, Jemma, do you like this format? is this worth replicating?
20:28:26 <s3ththompson> jongund: what is the process for developing examples?
20:29:54 <s3ththompson> Sina: it would be great if there was consistency to the formats
20:30:10 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: we can coordinate agenda publication... for the next two weeks we can kind of play it by ear
20:30:23 <s3ththompson> Sina: and last meeting of the month is crossroads meeting?
20:30:35 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: yes. jan 28 would be crossroads
20:31:07 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: anecdotally, this would be great. more Bocoup folks would likely attend the crossroads monthly meeting
20:32:44 <s3ththompson> michael_fairchild: so just to enumerate meetings... there's Automation (weekly, when active, run by michael_fairchild), Test Writing (weekly, first 3 weeks per month, run by James or Sina), and App Development (weekly, when active, run by s3ththompson)
20:33:45 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: and then Crossroads Combined meeting (monthly, run by Matt_King) which will give updates for all of the workstreams. the other meetings are optional and of interest only to certain people
20:34:07 <s3ththompson> Sina: it would be great if all meetings used same format... (probably this wiki format we'll test)
20:34:25 <s3ththompson> michael_fairchild: can we standardize on Zoom?
20:35:17 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: will have to check with Bocoup, but I like the idea
20:36:49 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: i will set up wiki format and share with others
20:37:03 <s3ththompson> michael_fairchild: who will do meeting invites?
20:37:15 <s3ththompson> Sina: can we automate? maybe with GitHub action? i can take a look
20:39:05 <s3ththompson> Sina: which zoom do we use?
20:39:16 <s3ththompson> michael_fairchild: i'm comfortable use deque...
20:39:25 <s3ththompson> Sina: okay, can you do next week and then we'll take over after that
20:40:01 <s3ththompson> TOPIC: Test Writing Update
20:40:49 <s3ththompson> James, Sina: we've made a lot of progress
20:41:16 <s3ththompson> Sina: we've only gotten comments from Matt_King... I want to figure out more sustainable way to get reviews from others and merge more quickly
20:42:41 <s3ththompson> James: we went back over all 6 new examples.... still need to get them merged... still need to reconcile them with the latest Bocoup changes which assume certain file structure, etc. for GitHub actions
20:43:42 <s3ththompson> James: moving on to next patterns on our list... Date Picker Combobox example... maybe a good candidate for our new "atomic test units"? by design, we'd like to be able to assemble module components to reuse asserts from, say, Combobox, for Date Picker Combobox
20:45:12 <s3ththompson> James: by end of the day we will publish two pull requests for Actions Menu Button examples... almost everything is the same, except for technique behind the scenes for managing focus, etc.
20:45:22 <s3ththompson> jongund: how do we review this? look at excel sheets
20:45:39 <s3ththompson> Sina: if you go to PR there is now a human-readable preview
20:45:54 <s3ththompson> James: if you want to read our human-readable plan you can go into GitHub issues
20:47:24 <s3ththompson> James: take a look at "Preview Test Link" on, say, modal dialog PR
20:48:33 <s3ththompson> James: and associated issue is linked in the PR
20:48:47 <s3ththompson> James: but you can comment on either issue or PR to provide feedback
20:49:17 <s3ththompson> jongund: how should i get started if i want to review one this week? how do i choose? can you assign people?
20:50:58 <s3ththompson> James: you can assign yourself. but yes, we could use help on Dialog
20:51:02 <s3ththompson> TOPIC: Working Mode Update
20:51:34 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: we've been discussing the issue a little here... we'd like to merge the test writing more quickly... how do we design a process to facilitate this?
20:52:24 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: the best way for us to review tests is to run them... we want to use ARIA-AT app to accomplish this
20:53:02 <s3ththompson> michael_fairchild: i'd like to make the bar for merging low... like it doesn't break the build
20:54:20 <s3ththompson> James: is there a way for CG to see that there are tests ready for testing? without going through being assigned to a test cycle, etc.
20:57:36 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: how do we kick the tires though? are those in the test queue with everything else? how do we fix the issue where we have a test in the test queue currently with "DO NOT TEST" in the title?
20:57:55 <s3ththompson> James: there's an issue about this. i think we need a flag that signals when something is ready for production testing
20:58:29 <s3ththompson> jongund: i feel strongly that it's takes time, effort, and thought for volunteers to try to pick the right thing to test.... it doesn't work to just say anyone can test anything
20:58:47 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: we can send out email blasts to try to proactively engage people
20:59:19 <s3ththompson> jongund: i endorse that. people will respond better to that than just throwing something over the wall and saying people will volunteer on their own
20:59:28 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: it sounds like we almost need a program manager for this
21:00:17 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: i can write up this role, what the responsibilities are, and how to engage with community
21:00:29 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: it sounds like the bar for merging should be relatively low
21:00:39 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: it sounds like we need a status
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21:02:06 <s3ththompson> s3ththompson: want to make sure we think about high-level UX, but yes we could add new status
21:02:31 <s3ththompson> James: i think we need to clarify the bar. we were 98% complete before we opened PR...
21:02:44 <s3ththompson> James: i think things should stay as draft PR until certain threshold is met
21:03:19 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: okay, sounds like we need to have a followup conversation. James' issue is great. we might just need to update the wiki based on that
21:03:33 <s3ththompson> Matt_King: maybe we'll make progress in issue or we can add to next meeting agenda
21:03:50 <s3ththompson> rrsagent, make log public
21:04:07 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
21:04:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/14-aria-at-minutes.html Matt_King