17:01:12 RRSAgent has joined #pbg 17:01:12 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-pbg-irc 17:01:14 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:01:16 Meeting: Publishing Business Group 17:05:13 zakim, end meeting 17:05:13 As of this point the attendees have been (no one) 17:05:14 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 17:05:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-pbg-minutes.html Zakim 17:05:15 rrsagent, bye 17:05:15 I see no action items 23:58:05 RRSAgent has joined #pbg 23:58:05 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-pbg-irc 23:58:07 RRSAgent, make logs Public 23:58:08 Meeting: Publishing Business Group 23:58:41 Date: 12/13 January 23:59:01 present+ Liisa, Daihei, Shinya, Ralph 00:00:39 Daihei has joined #pbg 00:00:45 present+ 00:00:58 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2021Jan/0006.html 00:01:51 regrets: Yoshii-san 00:03:37 present+ 00:04:04 regrets+ Angela 00:04:30 regrets+ Yanni 00:06:49 Liisa: Laurent is planning to make a propsal for a Community Group on Text Data Mining 00:07:05 ... we'll keep the BG appraised of when that proposal is sent 00:10:22 zhengxu_ has joined #pbg 00:11:19 present+ ZhengXu 00:11:59 Update: EU Copyright Directive and Text Data Mining 00:12:43 Liisa: the feeling is that there is a time crunch to indicate there is some direction on a technology front 00:12:53 ... to help the EU 00:13:06 ... so there may be a smaller number of ways to express rights 00:13:09 Jkamata has joined #pbg 00:13:31 ... hopefully we'll find some people to join a Community Group 00:13:55 Daihei: this is initiated by the EU copyright directive 00:14:20 ... we're curious how other markets might react 00:14:35 Liisa: it affects any copyright holder who has content hosted on a server in Europe 00:14:45 ... many of us have that, depending on our trading partners 00:15:12 ... the assumption is that little text data mining can be done without permission 00:15:43 ... so if orgs see business value in allowing this, there could be interest in a standard way to describe rights 00:16:38 ... those whose servers are behind firewalls might be less concerned, though they might also see additional business opportunitie 00:16:44 s/itie/ities 00:17:09 ... e.g. a smart speaker who could mine books to bring back facts [of interest to the household] 00:18:34 zhengxu has joined #pbg 00:20:23 present+ Junko 00:20:36 topic: Video and Audio Enhancements 00:21:09 Liisa: with the work that the EPUB 3 WG is doing, there was a question on how important it is to have references to audio and video outside the file to be able to stream 00:21:20 ... there was some feeling that this is probably something we should support 00:21:41 ... it's been a business issue to keep the size of the package down 00:22:08 ... as we're seeing more video content there are increased business opportunities to produce enhanced books 00:22:50 ... we found a significant bug in some of Amazon's devices that were using an external player 00:23:04 ... some publishers had to pull titles 00:23:24 ... many of the a/v titles were experimental and produced years ago 00:24:02 q+ 00:24:49 Shinya: I tried to do some remote video streaming to have dynamic advertisement 00:25:06 ... this is one use case 00:25:25 ... in Japan this kind of dynamic advertisement in ebooks is not a big market 00:25:54 ... it's useful to support but not an urgent thing 00:26:15 Daihei: is dynamic advertisement something that might have a bigger market in Japan? 00:26:57 Shinya: we've tried to put dynamic advertisement in our services but the biggest ad agencies are not ready to move to such technology 00:27:15 ... there's not yet a big business need 00:28:03 Daihei: so until the ad agencies are interested in opportunities in e-books or digital magazines, the use of dynamic advertisement might be limited 00:30:15 MAKOTO has joined #pbg 00:30:17 ... there are business issues 00:30:37 Liisa: are digital magazines successful in Japan? they haven't been very successful in the US 00:31:20 Shinya: two or three years ago we had the biggest market in digital magazine services; more than 3M paid subscribers 00:31:59 ... but the digital magazine market has been shrinking 00:32:25 ... so we're looking for other ways to use our services 00:33:55 Wendy: the main discussion in the WG is whether or not we need to make any changes in the support of foreign resources around iframes 00:34:09 ... EPUB doesn't explicitly support nor disallow foreign resources 00:34:36 ... there are security issues around foreign resources; they might contain viruses 00:34:51 ... so reading systems might be reluctant to support foreign resources 00:35:10 ... however, foreign resources might be useful from a packaging perspective 00:35:29 ... the WG is not opposed to exploring this but we want to know how important it is to publishers 00:35:59 ... one of the workarounds we're looking at is support of more formats with better size benefits 00:36:09 ... the WG has to understand what people want 00:36:36 Liisa: if you want to link to web sites with live data that is a part of the story you are telling, what is the off-line experience? 00:36:49 ... making sure we have good fallbacks or good ways to explain 00:36:54 topic: FXL Improvements 00:37:02 Daihei: we have talked about this a few times 00:37:39 ... FXL books such as cookbooks and children books 00:37:46 ... have been difficult to publish 00:38:36 ... it is not difficult to render graphical books on the web 00:38:57 ... but it has been difficult to render FXL EPUB 00:39:36 Liisa: we're trying to continue collecting use cases, and particularly business cases around the kinds of categories this works for 00:39:48 ... what kinds of books does this improve, to extend the market? 00:40:07 ... what kinds of books have never been made digital because they need this? 00:40:21 https://github.com/w3c/publ-bg/issues/4 00:40:25 ... I've just started an issues page in GitHub to collect these 00:40:44 ... please add examples there; it would be great to have lots of input on this 00:41:35 topic: Accessibility for Publishing 00:41:45 Daihei: in Japan this is more and more looked-for 00:42:17 ... there will be a webinar scheduled in February; LIA will present on improving accessibility in publishing 00:43:02 ... LIA published a paper last year that Murata-san translated to Japanese 00:43:33 ... the BG can exchange information more 00:44:21 dauwhe has joined #pbg 00:44:25 Murata-san: yes; I translated the LIA guidelines several months ago and is being reviewed by the technical committee of the Japanese Daisy Consortium 00:44:33 ... I hope it will be publicly available in a few weeks 00:44:43 ... and I hope it will have big impact 00:45:05 ... the Japanese standardization activity will submit a proposal to MIDI to create a JIS for ISO 00:45:20 ... I will chair 00:45:59 ... the upcoming standard will have an annex specific to Japan with authoring methods, ruby, vertical and horizontal writing, and the use of whitespace as word dividers 00:46:12 ... we'll announce more about this activity soon 00:46:32 s/MIDI/MITI 00:47:38 s/methods/conventions 00:48:50 topic: Community Group Update 00:49:02 Zheng: the first CG meeting of 2021 is tomorrow 00:49:32 ... we have talked with the Pronunciation CG who are trying to improve browser integration with screen readers 00:50:01 ... right now we are more focused on accessibility, lead by Avneesh and Makoto 00:50:27 ... in terms of documentation, we are trying to find people to work on EPUB documentation in MDN 00:50:53 ... we are also thinking about how to expand the CG meetings to more people from Japan and Australia 00:51:07 ... please reach out to me and Mateus with your ideas 00:51:21 ... we look forward to more discussion in the CG mailing list 00:52:18 Daihei: in terms of collaboration between the BG and CG, we should participate in the CG and send potential use cases for the CG to consider 00:52:25 Zheng: definitely! 00:52:36 ... we really look forward to new use cases 00:53:09 ... we'll also look for other task forces we might start 00:53:32 Daihei: might the CG discuss the video and audio resources if we bring use cases? 00:53:36 Zheng: definitely 00:54:08 https://github.com/w3c/publishingcg/issues 00:54:22 ... preparation of a/v enhancement and FXL enhancement can happen in the CG before it goes to the WG 00:54:30 Liisa: see the ^^ CG repo 00:54:42 topic: Topics for the March 23rd/24th extend PBG conference 00:55:00 Liisa: we're thinking about having an extended conversation about a few topics 00:55:10 ... similar to what we did during TPAC 00:55:23 ... two topics in a day, in two sessions 00:55:33 ... what issues would you like to discuss? 00:55:48 ... what activities in W3C should we collaborate on more? 00:56:04 ... what are the big _publishing_ activities we'd like to work on? 00:58:03 Kamata-san: ebook content outside of comics; what are the next content areas for ebooks? 00:58:36 ... for digital magazines there might be different structures for supporting external video resources vs. embedded video 00:59:01 ... e.g. for dynamic advertising or streaming services 00:59:08 ... for enhanced ebooks 00:59:16 ... these could be areas for discussion 00:59:50 Daihei: please come back to us with your thoughts for discussion topics for this extended BG conference in March 01:00:13 Liisa: send either to the full BG list or to the co-chairs 01:00:22 topic: Reminder re: EPUBcheck Fundraising 01:00:36 Daihei: we still need money 01:00:52 Liisa: new releases of EPUBcheck are coming soon; we are still fundraising for improvements 01:01:05 ... testing tools of the new API 01:01:17 ... we continue to work on evolving EPUBcheck 01:01:26 ... and we need money to pay those developers 01:01:49 present+ Murata-san 01:01:53 topic: Next meeting 01:02:09 Daihei: Jan 26 for Europe/Americas time 01:02:17 zakim, end meeting 01:02:17 As of this point the attendees have been Liisa, Daihei, Shinya, Ralph, shiestyle, ZhengXu, Junko, Murata-san 01:02:19 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 01:02:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-pbg-minutes.html Zakim 01:02:22 I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 01:02:26 Zakim has left #pbg 01:02:56 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 01:02:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-pbg-minutes.html Ralph 01:03:18 chair: Daihei, Liisa 01:03:33 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 01:03:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-pbg-minutes.html Ralph 01:03:54 rrsagent, bye 01:03:54 I see no action items