05:42:42 Zakim has left #auto 18:57:32 RRSAgent has joined #auto 18:57:32 logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-auto-irc 18:57:34 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:57:35 Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference 19:00:12 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/mid/VI1P174MB0063EBC44F81115E6888B330EDAA0@VI1P174MB0063.EURP174.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM 19:00:17 Chair: Peter 19:04:57 Present+ Rudi, Ted, Peter, Magnus, Ulf, Isaac, Adnan 19:05:59 Peter: looking for status updates on VISS, Charter, etc 19:07:18 Ted: I need to bring v1 to Director for review for Proposed Rec but charter privacy topic has given me pause as we lack ACLs even in v1 19:07:33 Magnus_Melco has joined #auto 19:11:11 Present+ Daniel, MagnusG 19:11:31 … summarizes conversation with Wendy and Sam, next step 19:12:34 Peter agrees more a best practices topics 19:12:53 MagnusF: is the bar is too high, the OEMs will simply walk away 19:13:16 … OEM usually owns both ends of data at present, Massachusetts referendum aside 19:13:45 … it is also a legal issue 19:14:21 … like you (Ted) am a privacy pundit but that is personal opinion. idealistic and reality can clash 19:15:06 Present+ Gunnar 19:16:06 … I can perhaps have an informal discussion with Toyota legal 19:16:29 Ted: NSF CCRI @@ 19:20:43 Topic: Proxy reencyption 19:20:49 Agenda+ VSSo kickoff 19:21:41 Isaac: proxy reencryption allows you start with a public key in the vehicle, all information leaving car would be encrypted with it 19:22:03 … later on you can decide who can decrypt without having to change anything on the car 19:22:24 MagnusF: proxy owns the private key? 19:23:11 Isaac: the private key that corresponds to the public one in the car, owner, fleet etc has it and can use proxy to reencrypt for third parties 19:23:43 MagnusF: today we have keys in a keystore that hits an edge server which is owned by the OEMs themselves 19:24:13 … data is typically scrubbed of personal information before reencrypted, sold and shared 19:24:19 … how is this different? 19:24:49 Isaac: the data manager, OEM in this case, can access the data in the clear 19:25:07 … this is encrypted end to end, including to third parties 19:25:58 Rudi: I have two concerns, first is PKI infrastructure and second compute intense 19:26:27 s/second/second is asymetric keys and / 19:27:08 … large amount of data would consume too much resources. would prefer symmetric keys created on originating device 19:27:37 … server only has to modify reentitlement 19:28:14 … I don't consider data streams any different from media streams 19:28:28 Isaac: proxy would be same way 19:32:26 Ted: more on the 25th, wanted to provoke @@bandwidth acls on encrypted? 19:32:56 Isaac: you can stack data and use parameters and there are multiple proxy encryption schemes 19:33:32 … I wouldn't be too concerned about performance. we can figure out which scheme applies to requirements, what we want to do 19:34:15 Gunnar: very interesting and still reading up on how the proxy doesn't know about private key 19:34:28 Isaac: I'll send some good samples plus challenges 19:36:03 … some schemes are succeptible to collaborative attacks (eg data consumer and proxy) 19:38:05 … you should also have a separate key pair to authenticate the individuals 19:38:41 zakim, next agendum 19:38:41 agendum 1 -- VSSo kickoff -- taken up [from ted] 19:39:06 Ted: the Auto Ontology CG is rebooting to address additional use cases and needs for vehicle data 19:39:06 … the timing is perfect as VSSo, the ontology for vehicle telematics signals received end of last year as a Member Submission 19:39:06 … VSSo uses the core vehicle ontology the CG created, and work for that is also kicking off 19:39:07 … we will be starting in the Auto BG for now, this work is in draft Auto WG recharter 19:39:09 -> https://www.w3.org/community/gao/ W3C Auto Ontology CG 19:39:14 -> https://wiki.edmcouncil.org/display/AUTO/AUTO+Home Auto Ontology coordination page 19:39:17 -> https://www.w3.org/Submission/2020/SUBM-vsso-20201026/ VSSo Member Submission 19:39:20 -> https://schema.org/docs/automotive.html Automotive Core ontology 19:41:54 -> https://github.com/w3c/vsso VSSo repo 19:42:28 Daniel: VSSo was based on VSS1, there were a few issues that came up and influenced refactoring on branches and positioning for example and now part of VSS2 19:43:00 … we can now start on ontology again. we have a chance to automate the process in order to keep VSSo in sync with VSS 19:43:10 … we have a proposal and repo 19:43:43 … if interested please join the call 19:44:11 … we submitted a paper to IEEE which sums up our thinking and can send to member-automotive@w3.org but please don't distribute it 19:45:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-auto-minutes.html ted 19:49:15 s/@@bandwidth acls on encrypted?/thought and attendence on that call. we often hear every byte counts so need to be mindful of that and would like to see something that can be selective in what it can reencrpyt based on sticky policy but maybe not doable on encrypted data in cloud/ 19:49:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-auto-minutes.html ted 19:51:06 s/NSF CCRI @@/nearby on privacy topic is NSF CCRI proposal I'm working on with U Memphis and SRI, essentially our graph project https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Vss_data with tighter controls for researchers. discussing privacy concerns with various stakeholders that are part of our outreach/ 19:51:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/12-auto-minutes.html ted 19:51:13 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Rudi, Ted, Peter, Magnus, Ulf, Isaac, Adnan, Daniel, MagnusG, Gunnar 19:51:13 Zakim has left #auto 19:51:15 I see no action items