15:35:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
15:35:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/08-pbgsc-irc
15:35:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:35:33 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee
15:36:06 <Ralph> chair: Tzviya, Ralph
15:36:11 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2021Jan/0000.html
15:36:21 <Ralph> agenda+ EPUBcheck updates
15:36:29 <Ralph> agenda+ Upcoming Workshops
15:36:40 <Ralph> agenda+ Around the Table
15:36:42 <Ralph> agenda+ AOB
15:37:46 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/12/11-pbgsc-minutes.html previous 11-Dec
15:51:14 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #pbgsc
15:51:47 <zhengxu> zhengxu has joined #pbgsc
15:58:13 <Ralph> present+ George, Avneesh, Dave, Cristina
15:58:39 <avneeshsingh> avneeshsingh has joined #pbgsc
15:59:02 <Ralph> present+
15:59:31 <George> George has joined #pbgsc
15:59:32 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pbgsc
15:59:45 <avneeshsingh> present+
15:59:53 <George> present+
16:00:39 <Ralph> present+ WendyReid
16:01:00 <zhengxu> present+
16:02:04 <Ralph> present+ Liisa
16:02:04 <ivan> present+
16:02:15 <Ralph> present+ Jeff
16:02:26 <Ralph> present- Jeff
16:02:48 <Ralph> present+ BillK
16:03:04 <Cristina> Cristina has joined #pbgsc
16:03:23 <BillKasdorf> BillKasdorf has joined #pbgsc
16:03:32 <BillKasdorf> present+
16:03:49 <Cristina> present+
16:05:39 <tzviya> present+
16:05:47 <Daihei> Daihei has joined #pbgsc
16:05:54 <Daihei> present+
16:06:16 <Garth_> present+ Garth
16:07:12 <Ralph> agenda?
16:07:51 <dauwhe> scribe+ dauwhe
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16:07:58 <liisamk> present+
16:08:19 <dauwhe> tzviya: let's get started
16:08:27 <dauwhe> Topic: EPUBCheck updates
16:08:42 <avneeshsingh> https://rdeltour.github.io/epubcheck-staging/
16:08:43 <dauwhe> avneeshsingh: the website is available
16:09:02 <dauwhe> ... we're talking to Ralph about the w3c URL
16:09:09 <dauwhe> ... then we will start publicizing
16:09:36 <dauwhe> ... the milestone releases are ready
16:09:42 <dauwhe> ... test suite finished
16:09:54 <dauwhe> ... work is ongoing on public API change
16:10:11 <dauwhe> ... there will be two realeases at end of Jan
16:10:21 <dauwhe> ... one will be production ready
16:10:30 <dauwhe> ... then there will be a test release on the public API
16:10:38 <dauwhe> s/realeases/releases/
16:10:45 <dauwhe> ... so we can get feedback
16:10:54 <dauwhe> ... will be in test mode for a month or so, based on feedbak
16:11:00 <dauwhe> ... then merged into main release
16:11:04 <tzviya> ack Ralph
16:11:04 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to ask Avneesh if he's willing to make an executive decision choosing one of the two URIs
16:11:30 <dauwhe> Ralph: Avneesh, can we make a decision on the URI?
16:12:30 <dauwhe> (avneesh dropped off)
16:13:09 <dauwhe> Ralph: I saw George's email about publishing industry support
16:13:13 <Ralph> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2021Jan/0001.html George's email on Publishing Industry Infrastructure support from the DAISY Consortium
16:13:29 <dauwhe> George: sure.... this could fit here or under the sharing agendum
16:13:52 <dauwhe> ... Ralph asked me to talk about the email I sent
16:14:03 <Garth_> q+
16:14:18 <dauwhe> ... DAISY management has an activity in 2021 to secure funding for Ace and for Matt's work on Standards
16:14:35 <dauwhe> ... Matt and Ace and EPUBCheck are part of the infrastructure that's needed in the industry
16:14:42 <dauwhe> ... and we'd love to see the industry support that
16:15:07 <dauwhe> ... we'll put together a doc saying how much we need, and ask associations of publishers and distributors to contribute
16:15:12 <dauwhe> ... possibly on an annual basis
16:15:19 <tzviya> q+
16:15:20 <avneeshsingh_> avneeshsingh_ has joined #pbgsc
16:15:37 <tzviya> ack Garth_
16:16:10 <dauwhe> Garth_: the site looks awesome
16:16:30 <dauwhe> ... there was some discussion that we didn't want the upload to epubcheck?
16:16:40 <dauwhe> avneeshsingh: just download
16:16:52 <dauwhe> Garth_: so we didn't recreate the IDPF thing?
16:16:57 <dauwhe> avneeshsingh: no, it's dying code
16:17:13 <dauwhe> tzviya: it wasn't about secuirty or IP, more that the code base and complexity
16:17:23 <dauwhe> ... there's high demand; we'll look at it in the future
16:17:31 <tzviya> ack tzviya
16:17:34 <dauwhe> tzviya: re: fundraising
16:17:45 <dauwhe> ... it's a great idea; we need to make it clear....
16:18:01 <dauwhe> ... I'm skeptical how we clarify how it's DAISY or W3C
16:18:05 <BillKasdorf> q+
16:18:34 <dauwhe> ... is this separate from other epubcheck fundraising?
16:18:38 <dauwhe> George: It's separate
16:18:56 <dauwhe> ... I'm hoping that we will be done with the current EPUBCheck milestones
16:19:04 <dauwhe> ... but EPUBcheck and Ace need to go on
16:19:19 <dauwhe> ... it is a DAISY activity but it's been embraced by the publishing industry
16:19:44 <dauwhe> ... DAISY is funding matt in the a11y area, but there's all that other editing, that is not part of the DAISY mission
16:19:46 <tzviya> ack BillKasdorf
16:19:58 <dauwhe> BillKasdorf: I heard you focusing on asking organizations for support
16:20:15 <dauwhe> ... all the organizations are looking for money; their members would be good targets
16:20:31 <dauwhe> ... but BISG etc would be unlikely to provide funds
16:20:35 <dauwhe> George: you're right
16:20:46 <dauwhe> ... this group might help us design what we're asking for
16:20:53 <dauwhe> ... we can ask individual companies
16:21:02 <dauwhe> ... and we have the inclusive publishing partners program
16:21:14 <dauwhe> ... it's different than what benetech is doing with certification
16:21:30 <dauwhe> ... we could expand our partners program and that money go to these activities
16:21:44 <dauwhe> BillKasdorf: the pubishing orgs can pass your information to members
16:21:52 <dauwhe> tzviya: let's wait for a draft from george
16:21:55 <dauwhe> Topic: workshops
16:22:39 <dauwhe> Ralph: Wide Color Gamut and High Dynamic Range for the web
16:22:40 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/Graphics/Color/Workshop/ Wide Color Gamut and High Dynamic Range for the Web
16:23:00 <dauwhe> ... this will be deeply technical, but relevant to this community
16:23:24 <dauwhe> ... some content that this community publishes might be interested in better support for better color rendering
16:24:19 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/221
16:24:25 <dauwhe> tzviya: not yet official, but there's one about smart agents
16:24:38 <dauwhe> ... related to WoT
16:25:01 <dauwhe> ... books being read aloud, a11y...
16:25:14 <dauwhe> ... let people know that publishing is involved in this area
16:25:21 <dauwhe> ... Gregorio might be interested
16:25:49 <dauwhe> Topic: general round table
16:26:00 <dauwhe> ... any... thing?
16:26:09 <dauwhe> ... and we had a TAG election
16:26:20 <dauwhe> Ralph: nine candidates for four seats
16:26:27 <dauwhe> ... one opening was due to a resignation
16:26:37 <dauwhe> ... 3 seats for two years, one seat for one year
16:26:59 <dauwhe> ... record number of votes--143 members, more than 30% turnout
16:27:07 <dauwhe> ... 2 incumbents re-elected
16:27:16 <dauwhe> ... Tess O'Conner (Apple)
16:27:24 <dauwhe> ... Sangwan Moon
16:27:36 <dauwhe> ... two long-time community members
16:27:41 <dauwhe> ... Amy Guy
16:27:46 <dauwhe> ... Lea Verou
16:29:11 <dauwhe> zhengxu: Meeting of CG last year
16:29:52 <Ralph> s/two long-time community members/two long-time W3C community members, new to the TAG
16:29:54 <George> q+
16:29:55 <dauwhe> ... start some task force in CG around pronnciation
16:30:07 <dauwhe> tzviya: enough people?
16:30:12 <dauwhe> zhengxu: going well
16:30:22 <dauwhe> ... a11y group led by avneesh
16:30:38 <dauwhe> ... and a spin-off with makoto
16:30:44 <dauwhe> ... and for documentation
16:30:55 <dauwhe> ... Mateus is looking for people
16:31:21 <dauwhe> q?
16:31:22 <tzviya> ack George
16:31:39 <dauwhe> George: what is the pattern of the CG meeting? Is it Wednesdays at 16UTC?
16:31:54 <dauwhe> zhengxu: once per month, wed or thu? I don't know
16:32:10 <dauwhe> avneeshsingh: 4th wednesday at 16UTC
16:32:21 <dauwhe> George: I could send an invite
16:33:01 <dauwhe> zhengxu: some CG members want meeting in Asia time zone
16:33:10 <dauwhe> ... tricky with one meeting per month
16:34:15 <dauwhe> wendyreid: FPWD of EPUB 3.3 Core and RS on January 12
16:34:40 <dauwhe> ... and notes for overview and multiple rendition satellite spec
16:35:00 <dauwhe> ... a11y task force is working on the revisions to the a11y docs
16:35:06 <dauwhe> ... a11y 1.1
16:35:14 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/294 FPWD transition request for EPUB 3.3 and EPUB 3.3 Reading Systems
16:35:22 <dauwhe> ... met last night, close a few issues, talked about FXL a11y
16:35:33 <Ralph> scribe+
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16:35:54 <Ralph> Dave: on testing, we've so far failed to find a Test Champion
16:36:12 <Ralph> ... so I started writing some tests for the reading systems part of the spec
16:36:18 <Ralph> ... there's a pull request to the repo now
16:36:47 <Ralph> ... I'm uncovering some annoying details
16:37:01 <Ralph> Tzviya: the WG needs a Test Champion
16:37:24 <dauwhe> ... anyone have someone who could contribute time and files?
16:37:26 <Ralph> Dave: it made an EPUB with the ACID2 test; the results were "entertaining"
16:37:32 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I can contribute what I can
16:37:38 <Ralph> s/it made/I made
16:37:39 <dauwhe> ivan: you cannot be a testing person!
16:37:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/08-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph
16:37:51 <dauwhe> tzviya: any pubs run automated tests?
16:38:05 <dauwhe> q+
16:39:04 <dauwhe> ... can we do things with Igalia?
16:39:12 <dauwhe> ... it's a totally different world
16:39:16 <dauwhe> ivan: that's the problem
16:39:17 <tzviya> ack dauwhe
16:39:47 <Ralph> Dave: I doubt we could come up with enough funding to pay a testing org
16:40:27 <Ralph> ... testing XML support probably isn't high on anyone's agenda
16:40:56 <Ralph> ... but much of EPUB is covered by HTML and CSS so maybe the task isn't as hard as we had thought
16:41:07 <Ralph> Tzviya: maybe you'll update us next meeting
16:41:10 <Ralph> ... great progress
16:41:15 <dauwhe> tzviya: BG update?
16:41:36 <dauwhe> liisamk: we've been working on building on conversations from TPAC workshop
16:41:41 <dauwhe> ... focusing on business issues
16:41:50 <dauwhe> ... so use cases can be handed off to CG
16:42:07 <dauwhe> ... planning to do another one day 2 90 minute sessions in March
16:42:12 <dauwhe> ... we're gathering topics for that
16:42:23 <dauwhe> ... we need to keep working through a11y
16:42:27 <dauwhe> ... especially with Japan
16:42:34 <dauwhe> ... interest has ratched up
16:42:44 <dauwhe> s/ratched/ratcheted/
16:42:56 <dauwhe> ... and start to discuss advertising in EPUB
16:42:57 <tzviya> q+
16:43:19 <dauwhe> Daihei: just had conversations in Japan this week
16:43:37 <dauwhe> ... digital publishing has been expanding in Japan
16:44:01 <dauwhe> ... in addition to manga, fxl requirements for books such as children's books and cookbooks and self-improvement
16:44:16 <dauwhe> ... they see that publishers want to publish more works
16:44:23 <George> q+
16:44:25 <dauwhe> .... slumping of print book sales
16:44:36 <dauwhe> ... take advantage of people buying ebooks more and more
16:45:00 <dauwhe> ... the FXL ebooks are not necessarily representing loyal to actual content of layout
16:45:09 <dauwhe> ... these difficulties should be overcome
16:45:14 <dauwhe> ... publishers want to discuss that
16:45:31 <dauwhe> ... in the web people can see graphic books easily
16:45:57 <dauwhe> ... next week on 12th there will be PBG asia/NA meeting
16:46:07 <dauwhe> ... and also audio/video enhancements
16:46:20 <Garth_> q?
16:46:29 <tzviya> ack me
16:46:50 <dauwhe> tzviya: there is an advertising BG in W3C
16:47:08 <dauwhe> ... there was a lot of controversy around the TAG election related to advertising
16:47:14 <dauwhe> ... and privacy
16:47:25 <dauwhe> ... I'm not sure what you mean about advertising in EPUB
16:47:45 <dauwhe> ... whether it's based on user data, or just fixed ads, you need to be very aware of the privacy implications
16:47:45 <tzviya> ack ge
16:48:07 <dauwhe> George: in Japan, I was told that the dept of education has issued a11y requirements; don't know when it will go into effect
16:48:14 <dauwhe> ... is the industry aware of that?
16:48:19 <dauwhe> Daihei: yes
16:48:46 <dauwhe> ... and some of the industry organizations want to take an important role to be responsible for discussing a11y
16:49:05 <dauwhe> ... public libraries are calling for accessible books
16:49:20 <dauwhe> ... so publishers need to pay attention to that
16:49:41 <tzviya> ack Ralph
16:50:04 <dauwhe> Ralph: tzviya was being careful about the ad tech community
16:50:59 <dauwhe> ... for example, some of the ad tech folks have asserted that HTTPS interfere with their ability to do business
16:51:20 <dauwhe> ... is there a different way to address the underlying issue, and address in a different technical way
16:51:58 <dauwhe> ... one of the respondents in the thread on the AC Forum was Robin Berjon
16:52:16 <dauwhe> ... he's been very good about trying to surface tech issues
16:52:22 <tzviya> read Robin's article for NYT Open https://open.nytimes.com/how-the-new-york-times-thinks-about-your-privacy-bc07d2171531
16:52:29 <dauwhe> ... there's some confusion about "publishers"
16:52:46 <dauwhe> ... what part of the community is "publishers"?
16:53:01 <Garth_> q?
16:53:13 <ivan> q+
16:53:17 <dauwhe> ... if you think there's input you can make, I would encourage us to be clear about what part of the ecosystem we are talking about
16:53:26 <dauwhe> ... we're not the publishers they're talking about, methinks
16:53:39 <dauwhe> ivan: that issue of terminology came up in one of the TPAC sessions
16:54:13 <dauwhe> ... they use "publisher" to refer to those who create advertisements
16:55:08 <dauwhe> ... they also use "decentralization" in a non-standard way
16:55:28 <dauwhe> tzviya: if you can access the AC forum, you should read the thread to be informed
16:55:48 <dauwhe> liisamk: my intention is more to just see if there's interest in having a conversation
16:55:59 <dauwhe> ... and help people to understand this is way complicated and fraught
16:56:52 <dauwhe> tzviya: I put a link in IRC to Robin's article about privacy and advertising
16:57:03 <dauwhe> ... it's very informative
16:57:10 <tzviya> ack iv
16:57:13 <tzviya> ack Ralph
16:57:29 <dauwhe> Ralph: the conversation about advertising is an appropriate one to have in the BG
16:57:51 <avneeshsingh> q+ to comment on one pice of EPUBCheck
16:57:53 <dauwhe> ... we need business cases and needs to inform technical choices
16:58:23 <Cristina> Cristina has joined #pbgsc
16:58:29 <dauwhe> ... we created an improving web advertising BG to discuss this
16:59:11 <dauwhe> tzviya: CG meeting is 2nd week of month
16:59:13 <tzviya> ack av
16:59:13 <Zakim> avneeshsingh, you wanted to comment on one pice of EPUBCheck
16:59:43 <dauwhe> avneeshsingh: we have a report and request for funds
17:00:14 <dauwhe> tzviya: do we approve the release for funds? there's some work to do for last milestone
17:00:20 <dauwhe> avneeshsingh: last piece of public API
17:00:31 <dauwhe> tzviya: delayed due to circumstance
17:00:32 <Ralph> Xheng: Next PCG Jan 13 (Wed) 11am EST
17:00:39 <dauwhe> ... we're requesting the release of funds a bit early
17:00:43 <Ralph> s/Xh/Zh/
17:00:53 <dauwhe> ... for next release in Early February
17:01:19 <dauwhe> avneeshsingh: there's a bit of a cash flow issue
17:01:34 <tzviya> +1
17:01:38 <ivan> +1
17:01:38 <BillKasdorf> +1
17:01:40 <dauwhe> +1
17:01:40 <liisamk> +1
17:01:41 <zhengxu> +1
17:01:43 <Garth_> +1
17:01:45 <George> +1
17:02:06 <dauwhe> tzviya: I see no objections; we will release the funds
18:07:48 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
18:07:48 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been George, Avneesh, Dave, Cristina, Ralph, avneeshsingh, WendyReid, zhengxu, Liisa, ivan, Jeff, BillK, BillKasdorf, tzviya, Daihei, Garth,
18:07:51 <Zakim> ... liisamk
18:07:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
18:07:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/08-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
18:07:53 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:07:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbgsc
18:11:39 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
18:11:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items