12:19:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
12:19:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/01/07-coga-irc
12:19:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:19:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #coga
12:19:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
12:19:38 <trackbot> Date: 07 January 2021
12:19:38 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
12:19:43 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ actions and  group actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Timelines_and_actions
12:20:07 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ aprove or disscuss: merging apendisis with new title https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2021Jan/0012.html
12:20:28 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ aprove or disscuss: icons <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1aRoYev1aAIHhIq37Itt96ueBwLh5zXMUeJBYxL0MCkQ%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7CJPascalides%40ets.org%7Cf3a88fc0c3e340bfbb7408d897a9ce51%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0
12:21:36 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ discuss langage in senarios?
12:21:39 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ aprove or disscuss: icons <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1aRoYev1aAIHhIq37Itt96ueBwLh5zXMUeJBYxL0MCkQ%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7CJPascalides%40ets.org%7Cf3a88fc0c3e340bfbb7408d897a9ce51%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0
12:21:56 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, close item 5
12:21:56 <Zakim> agendum 5, aprove or disscuss: icons <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1aRoYev1aAIHhIq37Itt96ueBwLh5zXMUeJBYxL0MCk
12:21:59 <Zakim> ... Q%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7CJPascalides%40ets.org%7Cf3a88fc0c3e340bfbb7408d897a9ce51%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0, closed
12:21:59 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
12:21:59 <Zakim> 1. actions and  group actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Timelines_and_actions [from LisaSeemanKest]
12:22:19 <LisaSeemanKest>  agenda+ Issues https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fc7TI8V6dNgFrD6wzGR8CjbbtO7Az0U-zYylrRSy8QQ/edit#heading=h.f830s7ypu4na
12:23:08 <LisaSeemanKest> regrets: John k, David, Abi
12:23:37 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
12:30:30 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
12:49:52 <LisaSeemanKest> LisaSeemanKest has joined #coga
12:50:06 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
12:59:50 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
13:25:35 <LisaSeemanKest> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l5xiuYG2IYBP7vgS5FSzOPJ1NtJdPRSckpY6tt3n9IE/edit#
14:51:14 <LisaSeemanKest> trackbot, start meeting
14:51:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:51:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:51:20 <trackbot> Date: 07 January 2021
14:51:51 <LisaSeemanKest> regrets: John k, David, Abi
14:51:53 <LisaSeemanKest> regrets: John k, David, Abi
14:51:56 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
14:53:02 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, close item 4
14:53:02 <Zakim> agendum 4, discuss langage in senarios?, closed
14:53:03 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:53:03 <Zakim> 1. actions and  group actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Timelines_and_actions [from LisaSeemanKest]
14:53:59 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+ new wiki pages
14:59:32 <Jennie> Jennie has joined #coga
14:59:54 <Jennie> present+
15:00:14 <JustineP> JustineP has joined #coga
15:00:19 <JustineP> present+
15:01:19 <LisaSeemanKest> scribe: jennie
15:01:42 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
15:01:42 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- actions and  group actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/PlanningPage#Timelines_and_actions -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
15:02:20 <Jennie> Lisa: I have updated this to make it easier to find your items.
15:03:19 <Jennie> No progress to report in December for the image subgroup.
15:03:29 <Jennie> Lisa: I think we are aiming for a month.
15:03:58 <Roy> present+
15:04:10 <Jennie> Lisa: If images can be completed in the next 3-4 weeks. What is the backup plan?
15:04:30 <Jennie> ...Maybe post about it and if people have not volunteered and committed in 3 weeks, we will need a different approach.
15:04:37 <EA> EA has joined #coga
15:05:32 <Jennie> John K and I can work with our contacts to see if this is realistic given current work loads, and then we can make a different plan if it does not.
15:05:41 <Jennie> Lisa: Then we can revisit next week.
15:05:44 <Jennie> Rachael: I agree.
15:06:01 <Jennie> Lisa: There are changes Abi was going to make.
15:06:12 <Jennie> ...We just went through some personas on a previous call.
15:06:57 <Jennie> Lisa: Rachael is working with Roy
15:07:13 <Jennie> (scribe missed the rest of this)
15:07:36 <Jennie> Lisa: Roy - will you have time to work on the other items?
15:07:47 <Jennie> Roy: I noticed I have Google orientation later.
15:08:16 <Jennie> Lisa: We also have how the WAI patterns are displayed.
15:08:23 <Jennie> ...Some felt it was too repetitive
15:08:32 <Jennie> Rachael: That is what the 1st bullet for Roy refers to
15:08:53 <Jennie> ...We would make changes to patterns to get the words "User Story" and move it to the end, and the word "Pattern" and move it to the end
15:09:00 <Jennie> Lisa: It is on the list in the planning page
15:09:02 <Jennie> Roy: yes
15:09:11 <Jennie> Lisa: The next one - the user stories in Appendix A
15:09:27 <Jennie> ...To link the patterns to the correct patterns. Some of the names have changed slightly, so this will need to be checked.
15:09:37 <Jennie> ...There are also style wrapping issues.
15:10:03 <Jennie> ...The last one for EO comments - they want in the summary page, after each objective, put related patterns so they are directly linked.
15:10:06 <Jennie> ...To user stories.
15:10:13 <Jennie> ...And the testing section
15:10:26 <Jennie> ...Is that ok Roy?
15:10:39 <Jennie> Roy: We are looking at the actions, and I will send a question if I have them
15:10:44 <Jennie> Lisa: I have done final edit review.
15:10:48 <Jennie> ...All except the objectives
15:10:54 <Jennie> ...There were some issues with the scenarios
15:11:00 <Jennie> ...I was only doing the final edits.
15:11:19 <Jennie> ...There were problems with the personas. EA is doing that. Also the consensus language.
15:11:24 <Jennie> ...Rachael has some here.
15:11:58 <Jennie> Rachael: the 1st one is done, the 2nd is related to Roy's. And we talked to Michael about it and he is against the heading in the document be different than the heading in the table of contents.
15:12:05 <Jennie> ...We need something that will work in both places.
15:12:10 <Jennie> Lisa: Can we add that to the agenda?
15:12:10 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+  TOC headings in User stories and patterns
15:12:16 <Jennie> Rachael: That would be great.
15:12:22 <Jennie> ...The 3rd one is done.
15:12:33 <Jennie> Lisa: Next is checking what we need to do for the next publication.
15:12:41 <Jennie> ...We have a lot more issues than we were anticipating.
15:12:48 <Jennie> ...We are going over the issues.
15:12:59 <Jennie> ...Justine and Jennie have offered to take some of these on.
15:13:13 <Jennie> ...Rachael, EA and myself will go through the editorial issues.
15:13:24 <Jennie> ...We need to go through the changes we have.
15:13:37 <Jennie> ...The icons and the images, discuss EO comments.
15:13:46 <Jennie> ...We also have additional comments from this group, lower on the page.
15:14:04 <Jennie> ...Does that wrap our heads around what we have to do for the next publication?
15:15:01 <Jennie> Justine: that sounds fine to me.
15:15:14 <Jennie> Lisa: Normally we would start the new year staring with what we want to achieve.
15:15:37 <Jennie> ...If it is ok with everyone, I think we should push this off a few weeks until after we have this document going forward.
15:15:39 <Jennie> +1
15:15:54 <Rachael> +1
15:15:57 <JustineP> +1
15:16:17 <EA> +1
15:16:23 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
15:16:23 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- aprove or disscuss: merging apendisis with new title https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2021Jan/0012.html -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
15:17:50 <Jennie> Lisa: the only thing we need to discuss is what the title would be.
15:18:00 <Jennie> ...Steve liked the idea but had a different suggestion for the title.
15:18:12 <Jennie> ...+1 for merging it.
15:18:12 <JustineP> +1
15:18:16 <LisaSeemanKest> +1
15:18:18 <Rachael> +1 for merge
15:18:23 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
15:18:26 <EA> +1 to merge
15:18:30 <Jennie> abstain - didn't have time to review. OK with what the group says
15:18:45 <JohnRochford> present +
15:18:53 <JohnRochford> present+
15:18:53 <LisaSeemanKest> present+
15:19:10 <Jennie> q+
15:19:13 <Rachael> q+
15:19:43 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:19:55 <EA> +q
15:20:01 <Jennie> RESOLUTION: Merge appendices B and D
15:20:13 <Jennie> Rachael: there was a lot of concern around the word policy
15:20:26 <Jennie> ...It is also organization approaches, broader than just government
15:20:36 <Jennie> ...I encourage a title that is broader than policy
15:20:42 <LisaSeemanKest> Policy and Business Considerations
15:20:43 <Jennie> ...And that hits all of the content
15:21:17 <Jennie> Rachael: Business and Policy Considerations would be my preference
15:21:19 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
15:21:25 <LisaSeemanKest> ack e
15:21:27 <Jennie> EA: Abi sent a note, and I sent a note
15:21:44 <Jennie> ...Rachael touched on the content. It is more about organization as a whole
15:22:01 <Jennie> ...Not having strategies in there, and having business in there - people will think it is about businesses
15:22:07 <Jennie> ...And this is not just a business case
15:22:15 <LisaSeemanKest> Organization Considerations and Plocies
15:22:16 <Jennie> Lisa: Should we say Organization Considerations and Policies
15:22:28 <LisaSeemanKest> q?
15:22:30 <Jennie> EA: There is a business case - including everyone you will make more money
15:22:42 <Rachael> Appendix: Ways to apply this document
15:22:46 <Jennie> Lisa: There are people looking for information about business case
15:22:51 <Rachael> q+
15:22:54 <Jennie> EA: there is more than this, on the policy side
15:23:07 <Jennie> Rachael: 2 suggestions. Make the appendix like "Ways to apply this document"
15:23:15 <Jennie> ...And we could move this to the list, and approve titles
15:23:34 <Jennie> Lisa: Yes. I think "Ways to apply this document" is too similar to another
15:23:40 <Jennie> ...I think we may need a survey on this
15:23:41 <Jennie> q+
15:23:53 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
15:23:57 <LisaSeemanKest> ack j
15:24:39 <Rachael> Jennie: Whenever I look at headings and table of contents and organization structure, I find it helpful to view it away from the document. If you make a survey, can you include a list of all the headings and a link to the section being discussed. That may make it eaiser to scope the conversation.
15:25:02 <Jennie> Lisa: I think we will continue the conversation on the list a bit
15:25:12 <Jennie> ...this can be done at the last minute as well
15:25:20 <Jennie> ...Is that ok with everyone - moving this to the list?
15:25:23 <Jennie> +1
15:25:23 <LisaSeemanKest> zakim, next item
15:25:23 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- aprove or disscuss: icons <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1aRoYev1aAIHhIq37Itt96ueBwLh5zXMUeJBYxL0M
15:25:26 <Zakim> ... CkQ%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7CJPascalides%40ets.org%7Cf3a88fc0c3e340bfbb7408d897a9ce51%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0 -- taken up [from LisaSeemanKest]
15:25:59 <JustineP> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aRoYev1aAIHhIq37Itt96ueBwLh5zXMUeJBYxL0MCkQ/edit
15:26:13 <Jennie> Lisa: We had a few discussions
15:26:55 <Jennie> ...A cross, an arrow, the tick is for the things to do
15:27:00 <Rachael> I think they look good. Thank you!
15:27:05 <Jennie> Lisa: Any comments?
15:27:20 <LisaSeemanKest> +1 for the first three
15:27:21 <Jennie> ...I will +1 for the first 3
15:27:32 <Rachael> +1
15:27:33 <EA> Tick has a different style compared to arrow
15:27:35 <JustineP> +1
15:27:36 <Jennie> Lisa: Can people put in a +1
15:27:46 <Jennie> +1
15:27:52 <Jennie> *Nice Justine!
15:28:16 <Jennie> EA: they don't look like they come from the same family. I'm wondering if that matters.
15:28:18 <Jennie> q+
15:28:42 <Jennie> Justine: I'm having trouble seeing the style you are mentioning
15:28:49 <Jennie> EA: We look at the way the line is built
15:29:00 <Jennie> ...like the lines for the X, and the line that goes to the arrow.
15:29:24 <Jennie> ...There is a rounded end for some, but the tick has a different style. It slims down
15:29:27 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:29:31 <Rachael> q+
15:29:49 <Jennie> EA: The same is happening with the multiply sign in the circle. It is a different size than the others.
15:30:00 <Jennie> ...This would cause difficulty when I work with some AAC users
15:30:48 <Jennie> Rachael: We also have other icons further down - the tick is consistent with the one further down.
15:31:01 <Jennie> EA: Do you want all the arrow heads to look like the ticks?
15:31:11 <Jennie> ...It is just a comment, I am fine with it if you are
15:31:20 <Jennie> Lisa: The question we can put on to the end of the discussion of the icons.
15:31:39 <Jennie> ...The 1st question can be about the icons; and then we can work through the style question
15:31:48 <Jennie> EA: Yes
15:32:05 <Jennie> Lisa: So the question is are you happy with them, without the style being considered
15:32:30 <Jennie> ...We had 2 or 3 questions about the summary.
15:32:42 <Jennie> ...Help users help understand what things are
15:33:04 <Jennie> ...We have several options here
15:33:12 <Jennie> ...based on discussions
15:33:24 <LisaSeemanKest> +1
15:33:24 <Jennie> ...Question 1: are you happy with the one labeled second draft?
15:33:55 <Rachael> q+
15:34:14 <Jennie> Rachael: I am playing with it, and I think we talked about the circle being a radio button
15:34:19 <Jennie> q+
15:34:50 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:35:04 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
15:35:35 <Jennie> Rachael: I can make the changes I have in mind
15:35:50 <Jennie> Lisa: You and I can send some emails back and forth, without bothering the artist
15:36:10 <Jennie> Rachael: This is a question to Justine. Would the people you are working with prefer to make the changes themselves?
15:36:26 <Jennie> Justine: I think they would be happy to make the revisions, but would be fine either way.
15:36:39 <Jennie> Michael: I think the changes should be made to the vector version.
15:36:47 <Jennie> Justine: We have access to the vector versions
15:37:22 <Jennie> Rachael: Can you send me the vector version?
15:37:26 <Jennie> Justine: I can send it to you
15:37:43 <Jennie> Lisa: Item 3: help users understand with clear text and images
15:37:56 <Jennie> ...I think we approved the 1st draft - is that correct?
15:38:07 <Jennie> Justine: I seem to recall that, but I can't say that with certainty
15:38:11 <Jennie> Lisa: OK we are on to item 4
15:38:49 <Jennie> ...There was an issue with culturally it matters which fingers
15:38:54 <Jennie> ...I'm really happy with that
15:38:56 <LisaSeemanKest> item 4
15:38:59 <LisaSeemanKest> +1
15:39:23 <Rachael> +1
15:39:31 <Jennie> 0
15:39:59 <Jennie> Justine: I do like the new version, yes
15:40:29 <Jennie> John R: I am legally blind, so I am not the best judge of tiny icons.
15:40:37 <Jennie> ...I'm with EA - they should be consistent in their presentation
15:40:51 <Jennie> Lisa: OK, so we need a graphic artist to smooth over the differences
15:41:04 <Jennie> John R: The other thing to consider is that these symbols are cultural.
15:41:14 <Jennie> ...They may not mean the same thing to others that don't speak English
15:41:24 <Jennie> EA: Are we specifically looking at the 3 fingers one?
15:41:26 <Jennie> Lisa: Yes
15:41:34 <Jennie> ...It should be fingers rather than thumbs
15:41:42 <Jennie> ...I know what John is referencing
15:41:48 <Jennie> ...We would need to be sure it is fit
15:42:07 <Jennie> ...It can mean a swearing on oath, ok, and others
15:42:15 <Jennie> Michael: We may want the international group to review
15:42:18 <Jennie> EA: I agree
15:42:46 <Jennie> ...the thumb has other cultural problems
15:43:00 <Jennie> Michael: We should assume we cannot predicate all the cultural reactions
15:43:08 <Jennie> Rachael: Can I suggest all icons get reviewed at the end?
15:43:16 <Jennie> Michael: I would suggest not publishing to TR before review
15:43:33 <Jennie> Lisa: OK that is a really important point
15:43:43 <Jennie> ...And we should do this before we complete them all
15:44:18 <Jennie> EA: There are sites listing "not so innocent signs"
15:44:41 <Jennie> Lisa: What we could do is have 3 dots
15:44:47 <Jennie> Rachael: That is sound safer.
15:44:50 <Jennie> q+
15:45:16 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:45:20 <Rachael> Jennie: I want to caution dots alone because it means a number of items.
15:45:33 <Jennie> EA: If you do dot dot dot it means you have omitted a word
15:45:38 <Rachael> q+
15:45:46 <Jennie> Lisa: We could do 3 vertically
15:45:54 <Jennie> Rachael: I am thinking about childern's books
15:45:55 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
15:46:07 <Jennie> ...Like 3 animals, or 3 of something, the way we teach children
15:46:25 <Jennie> Lisa: My issue with that is that is not how you represent numbers
15:46:41 <EA> three dots down in Braille is the letter L
15:46:41 <Jennie> ...The Braille set is sometimes used for those that don't understand numbers
15:46:50 <Jennie> ...We are choosing a language
15:47:10 <Jennie> Justine: Would 3 check marks be preferable?
15:47:43 <Jennie> EA: You mean 3 ticks?
15:47:45 <Jennie> Justine: yes
15:48:00 <Jennie> EA: we have a 3 tick system for employers
15:48:09 <Jennie> Lisa: What is the Braille sign for 3?
15:48:31 <Jennie> Rachael: It is 2 dots at the top of the 6, which might be confusing
15:48:35 <Jennie> q+
15:48:58 <Rachael> q+
15:49:05 <Jennie> ack Jennie
15:49:15 <Jennie> Could we consider changing to use the number 2?
15:49:17 <Rachael> Jennie: What if we change to a different number?
15:49:48 <Jennie> Rachael: What if we step away from a simple number, and do something like 90 degrees, use weather, for example
15:49:55 <Jennie> ...Hot, cold, that we could use conceptually instead
15:50:20 <Jennie> Lisa: I use centigrade so 90 degrees won't make sense
15:50:36 <Jennie> * ice cube = person shivering?
15:50:49 <Jennie> Rachael: it is cold for everyone at zero I believe
15:51:06 <Jennie> ...Sounds like we need more brainstorm on this
15:51:28 <Jennie> Lisa: I agree. Before we bother Justine's group, let's make some awful equivalencies, and find a concept we can agree on
15:51:30 <Jennie> +1
15:51:38 <EA> The noun project has some ideas for draft https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=draft
15:51:40 <JustineP> +1
15:52:00 <Jennie> Lisa: 5 we have agreed on already
15:52:11 <Jennie> ...6 we have a light shining
15:52:35 <LisaSeemanKest> +1
15:52:42 <Rachael> +1
15:52:46 <Jennie> +1 as long as it has enough size/magnifies well
15:52:47 <JustineP> +1
15:53:11 <Roy> Roy has joined #coga
15:53:18 <Jennie> Lisa: 7 has passed. 8 is not being replaced. 9 we like
15:53:24 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda+
15:53:28 <Jennie> Lisa: we have a few remaining items on the agenda
15:53:35 <LisaSeemanKest> agenda?
15:53:48 <Rachael> +1 to a round of cleanup/consistency
15:54:01 <Jennie> Lisa: Shall we ask the graphic artist at the end to make them all look the same?
15:54:14 <Jennie> ...but we will see how we are doing with time
15:54:40 <Jennie> Rachael: If we put the temporary one in while we go through the clean up process, would that work?
15:54:49 <Jennie> Michael: As long as we put something in place so we don't forget
15:55:00 <LisaSeemanKest> +1 to a round of cleanup/consistency
15:55:00 <Jennie> Rachael: I think it is reasonable
15:55:27 <Jennie> Lisa: Any objections?
15:55:35 <Jennie> EA: How are we saying thank you to the graphic designers?
15:55:46 <Jennie> Lisa: We are going to put them in the list of contributors
15:55:54 <Jennie> ...and we should thank you as well. Justine - a suggestion?
15:56:11 <Jennie> Justine: I think that is fine. I want to check with the graphic artists to ensure they are comfortable with that
15:56:19 <Jennie> EA: Please do pass along thanks from us
15:56:56 <Jennie> Rachael: in Content Usable there are 2 heading structures
15:56:58 <Rachael> User Story: Findable
15:57:03 <Rachael> Pattern: ....
15:57:24 <Jennie> ...Every User story starts with "User Story"...and we got a suggestion that this makes it harder to read.
15:57:29 <Rachael> Findable (User Story)
15:57:48 <Jennie> ...Michael felt that having them different is a problem
15:57:59 <Jennie> Michael: On my end I need to think about that
15:58:14 <Jennie> ...My worry is if you follow something in the table of contents
15:58:18 <Jennie> ...it may be difficult
15:58:35 <Jennie> ...For silver, I gave a heading with icons like that, but a visual icon gives guidance.
15:58:37 <Jennie> q+
15:58:42 <Rachael> ack Rachael
15:58:48 <LisaSeemanKest> ack j
15:58:52 <LisaSeemanKest> q+
15:59:37 <Rachael> Jennie: I know we get comments from people on state documents when the link text name doesn't match where it goes. I'm looking at other WCAG docs. There is one where things should be consistently identified. If we don't make them consistent, we aren't walking the walk
15:59:49 <Jennie> Lisa: A counter position: our table of contents is quite long
15:59:58 <Jennie> ...Especially if you enlarge the font
16:00:10 <Jennie> ...If you scroll down, you could easily see the pattern names
16:00:15 <Jennie> ...The same for the user stories
16:00:25 <Jennie> ...Having pattern 1, and user story 1
16:00:41 <Jennie> ...I was ok with moving pattern to the end of it
16:00:42 <Rachael> q+
16:00:51 <LisaSeemanKest> acj me
16:00:52 <Jennie> ...but taking the pattern out all together loses everyone
16:01:00 <Jennie> Rachael: I would suggest a straw poll
16:01:02 <Jennie> q+
16:01:19 <Rachael> ack: Rachael
16:01:23 <LisaSeemanKest> ack l
16:01:29 <LisaSeemanKest> ack r
16:01:33 <LisaSeemanKest> ack j
16:01:51 <Rachael> Jennie: Is another option is to keep the number, put the user story first.
16:02:08 <Rachael> I think the suggestion is 3.2.1 Findable (User Story)
16:02:25 <Rachael> 4.2.4 (Use a consistent visual design (Pattern)
16:02:49 <Rachael> Jennie: I think we may need to play with a couple examples. Send it to the list for a straw poll.
16:03:04 <Jennie> Lisa: Does anyone want to volunteer to send this to the list?
16:03:08 <Jennie> Rachael: I have this action
16:05:24 <LisaSeemanKest> rrsagent, publish minutes
16:05:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/07-coga-minutes.html LisaSeemanKest
16:07:00 <LisaSeemanKest> rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/01/07-coga-minutes.html LisaSeemanKest
16:24:26 <LisaSeemanKest> RRSAgent, buy
16:24:26 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'buy', LisaSeemanKest.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:24:30 <LisaSeemanKest> RRSAgent, by
16:24:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'by', LisaSeemanKest.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:24:34 <LisaSeemanKest> RRSAgent, bye
16:24:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items