IRC log of css on 2020-12-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:55:55 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/12/16-css-irc
16:55:57 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:55:58 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) Working Group Teleconference
16:56:49 [Rossen_]
Rossen_ has changed the topic to: Agenda for Dec 16 meeting: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2020Dec/0022.html
16:56:54 [Rossen_]
present+
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present+
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ScribeNick: dael
17:00:16 [cbiesinger]
present_
17:00:18 [cbiesinger]
present+
17:00:23 [dael]
Rossen: Hello everyone! We'll get going in a couple minutes
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present+
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present+
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17:01:16 [dael]
Rossen: For those that just joined we're waiting for a few more people
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present+
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present+
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17:01:48 [leaverou]
present+
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17:02:27 [dael]
Rossen: I think we have a quorum and a full agenda
17:02:31 [brandon]
present+
17:02:33 [miriam]
present+
17:02:36 [rachelandrew]
present+
17:02:45 [jensimmons]
present+
17:02:46 [dael]
Rossen: Before we get going wanted to hear if there are any extra items
17:02:59 [plinss]
present+
17:03:02 [dael]
florian: No changes, but a bunch of things within the EOY publications that were requested late
17:03:12 [faceless2]
present+
17:03:12 [dael]
Rossen: Yes, I intentionally didn't list b/c I know it would be incomplete
17:03:33 [dael]
Rossen: Any other things?
17:03:40 [dael]
Topic: EOY Publications
17:03:48 [fremy]
present+
17:03:52 [dael]
Rossen: I think fantasai had a bunch. Let's start with the one that are ready
17:04:14 [fantasai]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2020OctDec/0099.html
17:04:21 [dael]
fantasai: First is CSS Text 3
17:04:30 [chris]
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17:04:35 [dael]
Rossen: Woohoo!
17:04:37 [chris]
present+
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17:04:46 [dholbert]
present+
17:04:47 [dael]
fantasai: At 0 issues for first time in 18 years
17:04:49 [drousso]
present+
17:05:10 [dael]
Rossen: If anyone has an objection to this one...^-^
17:05:19 [florian]
present+
17:05:31 [dael]
Rossen: Let's followthe order. Objection sot publish css text 3 as CR
17:05:42 [dael]
RESOLVED: publish css text 3 as CR
17:05:44 [florian]
\(^o^)/
17:05:46 [oriol]
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17:05:52 [oriol]
present+
17:06:08 [chris]
q+
17:06:08 [TabAtkins]
present+
17:06:09 [dael]
fantasai: WE sent 2/3 to CR already. writing modes and text decor require this. This is the last piece
17:06:26 [dael]
chris: DoC, up to date changes, usual questions
17:06:30 [dael]
fantasai: All in the email
17:06:31 [Rossen_]
q?
17:06:36 [Rossen_]
ack chris
17:06:38 [dael]
florian: In terms of tests we're beyond what we need
17:06:47 [dael]
fantasai: Should have been CR a long time ago, never got it together
17:06:54 [dael]
chris: Who is going to raise the issue?
17:07:01 [dael]
fantasai: I can file the transition request
17:07:10 [fantasai]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2020OctDec/0103.html
17:07:17 [dael]
fantasai: Next is css images L3
17:07:22 [dael]
fantasai: Minor update
17:07:27 [dael]
Rossen_: That's a WD?
17:07:29 [dael]
fantasai: CR
17:07:41 [dael]
Rossen_: What's the update?
17:08:14 [dael]
fantasai: Several, 4, substantive changes and one editorial change. Have to publish this so all other specs can crosslink the rename
17:08:16 [dael]
florian: CRD?
17:08:21 [dael]
fantasai: Yes, CRD for this.
17:08:32 [dael]
Rossen_: CRD or CR?
17:08:36 [dael]
fantasai: CRD is easier so that
17:08:43 [dael]
Rossen_: Objections to new CRD for images 3?
17:08:49 [dael]
RESOLVED: new CRD for images 3
17:08:54 [dael]
fantasai: CSS grid 1 and grid 2
17:09:01 [dael]
fantasai: Handful of mainly editorial fixes
17:09:16 [dael]
Rossen_: Have 1 issue on grid for today. Any implications if we resolve?
17:09:16 [emilio]
present+
17:09:30 [dael]
fantasai: I believe there are a few minor editorial tweaks for that but they're included
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17:09:38 [dael]
Rossen_: Okay, so can proceed without
17:09:46 [dael]
Rossen_: New CRD to Grid L1
17:09:48 [dael]
Rossen_: Obk?
17:09:58 [dael]
RESOLVED: New CRD for Grid L1
17:10:02 [dael]
fantasai: And grid 2
17:10:19 [dael]
Rossen_: Grid 2. Objections to republish a new CRD for Grid 2?
17:10:26 [dael]
RESOLVED: republish a new CRD for Grid 2
17:10:37 [dael]
fantasai: florian contain?
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17:10:46 [dael]
florian: Would like contain1 and contain 2. Start with 1
17:10:48 [smfr]
present+
17:10:57 [dael]
florian: contain 1 is rec, made a few editorial and 2 substantive
17:11:02 [fantasai]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2020OctDec/0104.html
17:11:18 [dael]
florian: One is how we deal with computed values and the other is re-write of contain sizing. Didn't change behavior but old text was vague and short
17:11:54 [dael]
florian: Resolved to do this, under p2020 we can make a new publication w/o requesting approval but by making annotations in spec we attend to do this. Done that editorially and can push with approval
17:12:05 [dael]
florian: This would be the first use of this process and plh waiting on us to try
17:12:07 [Rossen_]
q?
17:12:17 [dael]
chris: This is the we can update the rec with new features or is this something else?
17:12:23 [dael]
florian: Not new feature, just a correction
17:12:28 [dael]
Rossen_: We just need a resolution?
17:12:42 [dael]
florian: Yes. I think for mechanics a team member needs to do it, but we need resolution
17:12:50 [dael]
Rossen_: Obj to update Containment 1 REC?
17:12:58 [dael]
RESOLVED: update Containment 1 REC
17:13:12 [chris]
Okay, if that is ready I can prep it for publication on Tuesday
17:13:21 [dael]
florian: Just a REC. As before can do editorial. Substantive things are not done but are notes we want to so it's just a rec
17:13:38 [dael]
florian: Containment 2. mostly resolved or editorial. I could almost repub but there's 1 item
17:13:40 [florian]
https://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-contain-2%2F&doc2=https%3A%2F%2Fdrafts.csswg.org%2Fcss-contain-2%2F#cv-notes
17:13:42 [dael]
florian: This diff ^
17:13:52 [GameMaker]
present+
17:14:08 [dael]
florian: Discussed in a PR with several people but merged w/o resolution. Seems innocuous, but if anyone wants to not publish now is the time to say so
17:14:36 [dael]
Rossen_: Besides the note the addition is the new restriction for visibility [reads]
17:14:41 [dael]
Rossen_: That's the essense of it?
17:14:48 [dael]
florian: Yes, everything else is resolved or editorial
17:15:07 [Rossen_]
q?
17:15:31 [dael]
Rossen_: Any objections to accepting the PR and republishing WD of containment 2?
17:15:44 [dael]
chrishtr: Can you repeat the change?
17:15:59 [dael]
florian: You approved it, you merged the PR where it was approved. There's a link to the diff in IRC
17:16:11 [dael]
chrishtr: I approve that ^-^
17:16:33 [dael]
RESOLVED: Accept the PR ( https://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-contain-2%2F&doc2=https%3A%2F%2Fdrafts.csswg.org%2Fcss-contain-2%2F#cv-notes ) and republishing WD of containment 2
17:16:41 [dael]
Rossen_: Other requests?
17:16:42 [dael]
fantasai: Yes
17:16:43 [fantasai]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2020OctDec/0106.html
17:16:46 [dael]
fantasai: CSS box model L3
17:17:10 [dael]
fantasai: Requesting CR transition. no new features from css 2. Redefines padding and margin. Created so we had something to refer to and add terms.
17:17:35 [dael]
fantasai: Couple issues asking for more terms but I think can do in CR. i18n completed review. I can't think reason why anyone else would care about a module with nothing new in it.
17:17:47 [dael]
fantasai: I suggest we transition to CR so we have stable reference
17:18:00 [dael]
Rossen_: I don't have issue with that. Question, what is benefit of advancing this to CR?
17:18:05 [dael]
fantasai: So we can get to REC
17:18:10 [dael]
Rossen_: If it doesn't add anything
17:18:17 [dael]
florian: Adds terminology
17:18:19 [dael]
Rossen_: Okay
17:18:27 [dael]
chris: So that means it passes all tests in css 2?
17:18:28 [dael]
fantasai: Yes
17:18:36 [dael]
Rossen_: Can we go directly to rec :)
17:18:39 [bradk]
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17:18:39 [dael]
fantasai: I don't htink so
17:18:51 [dael]
Rossen_: Obj to moving css box model 3 to CR?
17:18:56 [chris]
lol
17:19:02 [dael]
RESOLVED: Move css box model 3 to CR
17:19:05 [fantasai]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2020OctDec/0107.html
17:19:05 [bradk]
present+
17:19:12 [dael]
fantasai: backgrounds and borders L3
17:19:20 [dael]
fantasai: Very stable, few changes. But should be republished
17:19:27 [dael]
fantasai: Summary of tests ^
17:19:41 [dael]
Rossen_: You said only editorial?
17:20:07 [dael]
fantasai: 3 normative. First 2 have tests in wpt. 3rd is practically unobservable. I'm sure someone can write a test but I don't think will make a difference
17:20:20 [dael]
Rossen_: Objections to new CR for Backgrounds and Borders 3?
17:20:26 [dael]
Rossen_: And next time we can do CRD for it
17:20:39 [dael]
RESOLVED: publish a new CR for Backgrounds and Borders 3
17:20:49 [fantasai]
Topic: 2020 Snapshot
17:20:50 [fantasai]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2020OctDec/0105.html
17:21:14 [dael]
fantasai: Last publication issue. florian and I reviewed 2020 snapshot. It is ready based on earlier discussion. We think a few specs should be added/shifted though
17:21:14 [fantasai]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4715#issuecomment-745856263
17:21:25 [dael]
fantasai: If it's okay I'd like to ask WG about possible changes.
17:21:47 [chris]
github: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149772
17:21:50 [chris]
oops
17:21:54 [dael]
fantasai: First is add css box module L3 to top tier since it has no new functionality. Pretty stable
17:21:58 [dael]
github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4715#issuecomment-745856263
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17:22:07 [dael]
fantasai: Let's go one by one
17:22:15 [dael]
Rossen_: Objections to moving box to the top?
17:22:24 [dael]
Resolved: move box to the top
17:22:33 [dael]
fantasai: Next [missed]
17:22:40 [dael]
fantasai: ditto for images L3 since we cleaned that up
17:22:50 [dael]
fantasai: It is now in sync with all the changes and pretty stable
17:23:00 [dael]
fantasai: Not top level as top, but stable spec with limited testing
17:23:10 [fantasai]
https://drafts.csswg.org/css-2020/
17:23:20 [dael]
Rossen_: Objections to moving images 3 to stable bucket?
17:23:27 [dael]
RESOLVED: Move images 3 to stable bucket
17:23:39 [dael]
Rossen_: Moving css ui 5 to stable limited test
17:23:44 [dael]
RESOLVED: Moving css ui 5 to stable limited test
17:23:48 [dael]
fantasai: Next few less sure
17:23:59 [fantasai]
s/ui 5/sizing 3/
17:24:00 [fantasai]
s/ui 5/sizing 3/
17:24:19 [hober]
present+
17:24:30 [dael]
fantasai: There was an issue against snapshot about transforms l2 to rough interop bucket
17:24:34 [dael]
chris: It has one impl
17:24:39 [dael]
chris: Chrome has a bug on it
17:24:49 [dael]
fantasai: transforms 2 I thought multi impl of 3d transforms
17:24:57 [dael]
chris: Yes, but single transform is only one impl
17:25:05 [dael]
florian: Seems short for rough interop
17:25:15 [dael]
fantasai: Could add and exclude those bits or save for next year
17:25:17 [dael]
florian: Save it
17:25:25 [dael]
fantasai: Other was color adjust 1. Maybe save for next year as well
17:25:42 [emilio]
hmm, Gecko ships individual transform properties iirc
17:25:45 [dael]
chris: Doesn't have any tests so claim of interop is hard to substantiate. Is it only human testable?
17:25:54 [dael]
fantasai: SHouldn't require human interaction to work. We can do it next year
17:26:00 [dael]
fantasai: I asked about color and font 4
17:26:05 [dael]
chris: I responded.
17:26:06 [dael]
Rossen_: 2021
17:26:08 [gsnedders]
WebKit has an impl, but not shipped in Safari
17:26:29 [dael]
chris: Color 4 is stable. A few bits are not. Closed enough that I expect cr in jan or feb. stable and getting impl
17:26:35 [gsnedders]
s/an impl/an impl of individual transform properties/
17:26:37 [dael]
fantasai: color 4 in stable needs testing or save for 2021
17:26:44 [dael]
chris: let's say stable and needs testing.
17:26:48 [dael]
chris: Same with fonts 4
17:27:00 [dael]
Rossen_: color l4 move to sable needs testing
17:27:07 [dael]
RESOLVED: color l4 move to stable needs testing
17:27:24 [dael]
fantasai: fonts 4 a lot of open issues. Lot of impl happeneing but spec text mayne not stable
17:27:37 [gsnedders]
do we not have tests for most of color l4 in WPT from when impls implemented it?
17:27:48 [dael]
chris: It is. I disagree on issue. 2 groups of long running issues. generic font families and privacy issues. It's stable apart from those bits.
17:28:00 [dael]
florian: There are 76 open issues. Are they all what you said?
17:28:08 [dael]
chris: At least 3/4 of them
17:28:16 [dael]
Rossen_: Seems a little early with number of issues
17:28:28 [dael]
chris: I'll push a little but I'll fallback with graceful degredation
17:28:34 [dael]
fantasai: I think we want to save that for next year
17:28:36 [dael]
chris: Fine
17:28:49 [dael]
fantasai: Prop publishing the snapshot 2020 as a note
17:28:52 [dael]
chris: Grid 2
17:29:13 [dael]
fantasai: Oh, yes. Grid 1 is rough interop but needs more testing. Grid 2 is a superset of 1.
17:29:22 [dael]
fantasai: Part that's different in L2 has had no issues
17:29:32 [dael]
fantasai: Might make sense to put them in the same bucket
17:29:36 [dael]
chris: Makes sense to me
17:29:48 [fantasai]
s/same bucket/same bucket, since what's holding 2 back is the shared part/
17:29:55 [dael]
Rossen_: Publishing snapshot as a note. Objections?
17:29:58 [fantasai]
s/bucket/bucket as 1/
17:30:03 [dael]
fantasai: Didn't resolve on grid 2.
17:30:09 [dael]
Rossen_: I thought we were not going to move
17:30:17 [dael]
fantasai: Add to snapshot in same place as grid 1
17:30:22 [dael]
Rossen_: Objections?
17:30:30 [dael]
RESOLVED: Add grid 2 to snapshot in same place as grid 1
17:30:49 [dael]
Rossen_: And now, are we ready to push snapshot 2020 as a note?
17:30:56 [dael]
RESOLVED: Publish snapshot 2020 as a note
17:31:05 [dael]
chris: What state is it in and when to prepare for publication?
17:31:15 [dael]
fantasai: Need to make resolution edits. Tomorrow, I'm guessing
17:31:27 [dael]
Rossen_: Anything else for publication?
17:31:30 [dael]
fantasai: That's all I got
17:31:33 [dael]
florian: I'm done
17:31:42 [dael]
Topic: [css-variables?] Higher level custom properties that control multiple declarations
17:31:44 [jensimmons]
Does that mean we get a CSS 2020 in 2020??
17:31:53 [astearns]
just barely
17:31:59 [dael]
github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5624
17:32:27 [dael]
leaverou: I didn't explicitly add this. WE discussed last time and didn't get resolution. Interesting discussion in issue and off GH
17:32:32 [leaverou]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5624#issuecomment-746339609
17:32:34 [dael]
leaverou: I summerized current state in ^ comment
17:33:10 [dael]
leaverou: Summary: It looks like best course of action for block conditionals. Can't use pseudo class, casuse issues. If if() cascades have to carry extra context and increases too much complexity
17:33:30 [dael]
leaverou: Best is impl if based on idea of desugering to inline if calls and take into account properties in same rule. example in comment
17:33:53 [dael]
leaverou: Rasises some issues b/c certain values eval differently depending on prop. Hasn't come up that much. Length in some MQs
17:34:13 [dael]
leaverou: For example, ones we could come up with TabAtkins is %, em values, rem, lh, rlh, currentColor.
17:34:13 [chris]
rrsagent, here
17:34:13 [RRSAgent]
See https://www.w3.org/2020/12/16-css-irc#T17-34-13-1
17:34:51 [dael]
leaverou: Problem. If it desugars to inline if calls nad conditional has relative values you may have cases where part of rule eval to true and a part of false. Example in comment.
17:35:00 [dael]
leaverou: Agreed don't want partial applicaitons. How to solve?
17:35:32 [dael]
leaverou: Came up with defining how these relative values would be evaluated. cureentColor is as if in color and so on. New inline conditional function to desugar iff
17:35:39 [dael]
leaverou: Doesn't sound good, but couldn't come with better
17:36:00 [bradk]
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17:36:01 [dael]
leaverou: Addresses single conditional. Css nesting has same partial applicaiton problme. May have condition true for a rule but not decendnents.
17:36:10 [Rossen_]
q?
17:36:21 [dael]
leaverou: Might have var warning = on and a value for --warning on parent and different value on the child
17:36:31 [dael]
leaverou: You again have @if block applied paritially
17:36:49 [dael]
leaverou: Not sure if there's a way to address this. Couldn't come up with anything but just discussed yesterday. Don't know if there are ideas
17:37:13 [dael]
fantasai: What do you do if content has if clause with a property that effect evaluation. if on a em and evaluate em against font size
17:37:18 [dael]
leaverou: Can you put example in IRC?
17:37:36 [fantasai]
@if (var(...) > 1em) { font-size: 35pt; }
17:37:44 [dael]
leaverou: I see
17:37:47 [dael]
leaverou: I'm not sure
17:37:55 [dael]
leaverou: What would you suggest should happen?
17:38:06 [dael]
leaverou: It's basically same as if you have inline if
17:38:20 [dael]
Rossen_: In interest of time, are we ready to resolve or should we take it back to GH and continue there?
17:38:48 [dael]
leaverou: I suppose we could go back to issue
17:39:08 [dael]
Rossen_: Let's do that. Let's continue discussing there. I was hoping we were closer to resolution then we are. We'll come back
17:39:16 [dael]
Topic: [css-font-loading] Browsers disagree on what it means for a FontFace object to be "CSS-connected", and what effect does it have.
17:39:24 [dael]
github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5707
17:40:39 [dael]
emilio: Browser behave really oddly. Spec-wise spec says FontFace object once the rule is removed you should be able to use like it's not css-connected. A bit messy, browsers don't impl to the letter. Simplier would be if fontface created for a css rule it is concidered css-created. Then impl and spec are simplier
17:40:52 [dael]
emilio: Given behavior is all over the place and it's an edge case it would be nice to simplify
17:41:03 [leaverou]
fantasai: 1em evaluated against font-size refers to the *parent* font-size, so there's no conflict there. That's *why* we'd evaluate ems against font-size, to avoid that sort of thing
17:41:08 [dael]
TabAtkins: What imacts does ti have on the connection between properties if we just make a flag for css-created
17:41:42 [dael]
emilio: afaict is chrome and ff don't allow change of descriptor of fontface object. Per spec it's 2-way mapping. I think FF and Chrome don't impl. I don't see an issue with 2-way mapping as is.
17:41:55 [dael]
TabAtkins: If keeping the connection I'm unclear what the change is
17:42:17 [fantasai]
leaverou, I think it would be super unexpected if you evaluated em against font-size, unless all of the if clause lengths evaluate against the parent or something
17:42:29 [fantasai]
s/font-size/parent font-size/
17:42:38 [dael]
emilio: Per spec once you removet he rule from the style sheet, even though om wrapper for rule exists, the fontface object is diconnected from it. Means a lot of functions that need to check for css connection need to also update stylesheets and other expensive stuff
17:42:51 [fantasai]
leaverou, and in that case, seems a lot less useful?
17:43:10 [dael]
TabAtkins: So if you move a cssom fontface object into another stylesheet in another document so it shows in a different fontface set would that make 1 more object
17:43:24 [dael]
emilio: afaict you can't do that. cssom method is strings so you need to stringify
17:43:35 [leaverou]
fantasai: then the other options are: a) it evaluates differently per property, so you have partial application b) it evaluates against another property, e.g. width, so you have a cycle in font-size.
17:44:00 [dael]
TabAtkins: Okay. If purely when an om rule is created it gets a corresponding object and that's a permanent connection I'm okay with that. Simplication. Fine with me
17:44:04 [Rossen_]
q?
17:44:04 [dael]
emilio: I think so too
17:44:08 [dael]
Rossen_: Other opinions?
17:44:22 [dael]
Rossen_: Summary?
17:44:52 [dael]
emilio: Proposed: Change css-connected by css created bool where it cannot be unset until removed frmo a document
17:44:57 [fantasai]
leaverou, sure I recognize those are bad... but also, it seems to me that the use cases would want to evaluate against the element itself
17:45:04 [dael]
Rossen_: Objecitons?
17:45:17 [dael]
RESOLVED: Change css-connected by css created bool where it cannot be unset until removed from a document
17:45:42 [dael]
emilio: Another issue in this. That was changing definition. Now what happens to document.fonts.add with that object
17:45:45 [fantasai]
leaverou, if that's not the case and evaluating the parent font size is useful and expected, great, but if not, then making it implementable isn't actually solving the problem
17:45:49 [dael]
emilio: It's in the same issue, but needs different resolution
17:46:33 [dael]
emilio: it's when it's from a rule created in another document. I think blink does nothing. Spec says throw which is what gecko does. Doesn't match WK or blink. Happy to use either, both are reasonable.
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17:46:52 [dael]
emilio: It does nothing if called on same document which is odd. I think easiest is follow blink
17:46:57 [dael]
TabAtkins: Meaning it doesn't get added to set?
17:46:58 [dael]
emilio: Right
17:47:06 [dael]
TabAtkins: No opinion on throw or ignore. Whichever
17:47:32 [dael]
emilio: I don't care either. Throw to do nothing is a bit easier for use. Doing nothing to throwing may break. No strong opinion. Whatever gets faster interop
17:47:57 [dael]
TabAtkins: Seems rare to do this. I suspect we could move to throw and I would prefer because it's an error. Do we have an issue to fix in chrome?
17:48:04 [dael]
emilio: I'm okay change to throw
17:48:13 [dael]
TabAtkins: I'll try that and talk to Rune. If not we'll come back
17:48:47 [dael]
Rossen_: With my TAG hat I'd argue strongly for throwing. There's a pretty clear guidance on this pattern. Should do most observable. Let's not have silent error. I agree with prop
17:48:50 [dael]
Rossen_: Objections?
17:49:03 [dael]
RESOLVED: Have it throw an error
17:49:36 [dael]
RESOLVED: have document.fonts.add when called with css create fontface object throw an error
17:49:36 [leaverou]
fantasai: If you look at the use cases wrt WC, none of them really seems to need ems. We just need to define what happens when someone uses it that way. I agree that parent is not that useful, but not sure the alternatives are better. I'm hoping there might be a 4th alternative we haven't considered, but I think the top priority would be to make sure that either the entire @if is applied or none of it, even if some values become less useful in
17:49:37 [leaverou]
conditions.
17:49:53 [dael]
Topic: [css-color-adjust] It's a bit unfortunate that user stylesheets can't specify arbitrary colors.
17:50:00 [dael]
github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5779
17:50:30 [dael]
emilio: I don't htink it's huge. Came up when reviewing changes to forced colors. It's a bit unfortunate user colors stop working
17:51:03 [dael]
emilio: I don't have a super great use case for user stylesheets spec arbitrary colors. I don't think it's huge but wanted to raise b/c it's weird.
17:51:13 [Rossen_]
q?
17:51:24 [dael]
fremy: I think we did consider it. You can spec any color and say forced color adjust none
17:51:27 [dael]
emilio: Yeah
17:51:41 [dael]
fremy: You want to do it anyway to disable backplate. You can say antying in stylesheet.
17:51:48 [fantasai]
or stick to the forced colors palette
17:52:06 [dael]
emilio: Would need to disable for everything but yeah. It's a different behavior. not a huge issue. Can disable forced-colors all together or change system colors to match what you want
17:52:15 [dael]
Rossen_: Doesn't sound like there's anything ot resolve
17:52:19 [dael]
emilio: Resolve no change
17:52:22 [dael]
Rossen_: Objections:
17:52:26 [dael]
RESOLVED: Close no change
17:52:34 [dael]
Topic: css-color-adjust] [css-scrollbars] scrollbar-color should probably compute to auto in forced-colors mode.
17:52:42 [dael]
github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5778
17:53:08 [dael]
emilio: This was the case I could think of b/c we don't have system color for scrollbars. Probably should force to auto and have system scrollbar colors to show
17:53:12 [fremy]
sounds reasonable to me
17:53:16 [dael]
Rossen_: Sounds sensible. Other opinions?
17:53:46 [dael]
Rossen_: Prop: Scrollbar colors should compute to auto in forced-colors mode
17:53:51 [dael]
RESOLVED: Scrollbar colors should compute to auto in forced-colors mode
17:54:07 [dael]
Topic: [css-scroll-snap-1] Snap area trapping behavior of non scrollable elements
17:54:28 [dael]
github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4496
17:55:24 [dael]
fantasai: Added b/c we had original set up scroll-snap-type where if it's non-inital it traps snaps. If elements inside asking for snap position we ignore. scroll cotnainers have to trap. Added additional behavior for scroll-snap-type so if someone wants to say in this area ignore a snap position they could do so
17:55:54 [dael]
fantasai: Seems this is difficult to impl for Blink. Do we want to not have the behavior? Would mean only way to prevent contents from having snap behavior is put in a scroll container
17:56:21 [dael]
Rossen_: It's a hack. The hack will work. People will hate the hack. It'll probably end up in css hacks books.
17:56:30 [fantasai]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4496#issuecomment-706333521
17:56:33 [dael]
Rossen_: Is it really that difficult that we should go to that extent.
17:56:39 [dael]
fantasai: Here's comment from impl ^
17:56:48 [dael]
fantasai: I'm not aware of any requests for the behavior
17:57:02 [dael]
Rossen_: non-Blink impl with opinion?
17:57:15 [dael]
smfr: My hunch is it doesn't make sense for non-scrollable things to trap snapping
17:57:23 [dael]
fantasai: Within that element we don't track snap position
17:57:33 [dael]
Rossen_: Image in a carosel scenario?
17:58:16 [dael]
fantasai: No. a section and in that section there's properties setting snap points, you can turn that off. You can say this element ignore the snap positions. We can just not have that behavior and see if someone complaints
17:58:31 [fantasai]
s/positions/positions inside/
17:58:37 [dael]
Rossen_: In interest of time we can resolve here. If there are no strong arguments for keeping it I'm fine with that
17:58:48 [dael]
smfr: Looked at WK and would be easy to impl
17:59:00 [dael]
Rossen_: Argument for reverting doesn't seem to be a problem for WK
17:59:19 [dael]
Rossen_: What if we keep issue open and when we get to actual impl and get experience I think that's when we come back and decide
17:59:22 [dael]
fantasai: Mark at-risk?
17:59:24 [dael]
Rossen_: Sensible
17:59:27 [dael]
Rossen_: Objections?
17:59:35 [dael]
RESOLVED: Mark this property at-risk
17:59:47 [dael]
Topic: end
17:59:55 [dael]
Rossen_: We're at the end of the call.
18:00:05 [dael]
Rossen_: I'd like to use the last few seconds for the yearly summary
18:00:26 [dael]
Rossen_: Have resolved and made 52 publishings. 4 notes, 31 wd, 16 cr and 1 REC
18:00:32 [dael]
Rossen_: Over 192 resolutions
18:00:56 [fantasai]
dael+++++++++
18:01:28 [dael]
Rossen_: Crazy year, very busy. I want to thank all the members for participating, editors for working, staff for helping us, dael for scribing, and everyone for putting up with what 2020 brought us. WG showed up strong.
18:01:41 [dael]
Rossen_: Thank you everyone for going through this together and let's hope for a better 2021
18:01:48 [dael]
[lots of cheering]
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18:30:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/12/16-css-minutes.html fantasai
18:30:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/12/16-css-minutes.html fantasai
18:31:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/12/16-css-minutes.html fantasai
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20:59:06 [fantasai]
TabAtkins: Yo, need you to merge https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/pull/1834 so we can publish
20:59:46 [TabAtkins]
Been busy this morning, will get to in a bit.
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