16:02:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webdriver
16:02:28 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/10/07-webdriver-irc
16:02:38 <jgraham> RRSAgent: This is webdriver
16:02:38 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'This is webdriver', jgraham.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:03:00 <AutomatedTester> https://browserstack.zoom.us/j/93609386981?pwd=dmdsK29YRVVxdXFTU2tXWjhnNnJvQT09
16:03:03 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make logs public
16:03:29 <simonstewart> simonstewart has joined #webdriver
16:03:46 <jgraham> RRSAgent: publish minutes v2
16:03:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/10/07-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:03:54 <jgraham> present+ jgraham
16:04:01 <AutomatedTester> for those just joining the channel, the meeting link is https://browserstack.zoom.us/j/93609386981?pwd=dmdsK29YRVVxdXFTU2tXWjhnNnJvQT09
16:04:14 <AutomatedTester> if your colleagues need the link please share
16:04:28 <simonstewart> present+ simonstewart
16:04:42 <foolip> I've updated https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2020-10-BiDi with the new URL
16:05:08 <mathiasbynens> present+ mathiasbynens
16:05:16 <foolip> present+
16:05:25 <jimevans> present+
16:05:26 <brwalder> present+
16:05:37 <jgraham> scribe: AutomatedTester
16:05:50 <AutomatedTester> present+
16:06:29 <AutomatedTester> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2020-10-BiDi
16:06:31 <jgraham> meeting: WebDriver-BiDi
16:06:46 <jgraham> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2020-10-BiDi
16:07:24 <AutomatedTester> topic: Follow ups from previous meetings
16:08:22 <AutomatedTester> Automatedtester: No items to be discussed
16:08:43 <AutomatedTester> topic: Add initial support for subscribing to events
16:08:46 <foolip> https://w3c.github.io/webdriver-bidi/#events is probably the best place to start reading what landed
16:09:20 <AutomatedTester> Foolip: can jgraham explain the model here please
16:09:31 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: This is about enable events
16:09:41 <foolip> Then there's https://w3c.github.io/webdriver-bidi/#command-session-subscribe and -unsubscribe which are the other important bits.
16:10:02 <AutomatedTester> ... the tricky thing here is around timing especially around the creation of the browsing context
16:10:18 <AutomatedTester> ... in automation we have a small assumption that we have full control of the browser
16:10:26 <AutomatedTester> ... which might not be correct
16:10:41 <AutomatedTester> ... and we want to get to a stage to get events when targets are created
16:10:57 <AutomatedTester> ... and then be able to filter events based on criteria
16:11:26 <AutomatedTester> ... we have a way of enabling events of a target or for global events
16:11:48 <AutomatedTester> ... we have a global event map that tell you what has been enabled
16:12:49 <AutomatedTester> ... [discusses implementation details on how browsing context items could be done]
16:14:09 <AutomatedTester> ... the way you works in the spec is that events constantly happen and then they are passed up to the browsing context, filtered, and the up to the parent process. I know implementations will be slightly different but the spec has to be written this way due to how we hook into other specs
16:14:31 <AutomatedTester> ... if this is concerning can you raise an issue or ask a question now.
16:15:05 <AutomatedTester> foolip: whats the significance of the tri state "thing"
16:15:05 <simonstewart> q+
16:16:23 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: There are cases that collecting events can be inflexible [describes frames and sub frames and how they might not get all events]
16:16:46 <jgraham> q?
16:16:56 <AutomatedTester> ack simonstewart
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16:17:14 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart: how do you unsubscribe from events?
16:17:18 <drousso> present+
16:17:39 <foolip> q+
16:17:39 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: there currently is a way to do that but there could be
16:17:46 <AutomatedTester> ack foolip
16:19:13 <AutomatedTester> foolip: if you wanted to disable events for a frame  can be tricky. If there are race conditions or challenges with the current model can you raise an issue
16:20:16 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: there may be use cases that are not address but we can iterate over this in the future.
16:20:27 <foolip> Is everyone else using a native app for this, or another browser?
16:20:44 <AutomatedTester> topic: Value serialization
16:21:03 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: I have put a PR up for value serialization up
16:21:14 <AutomatedTester> ... for JavaScript objects
16:21:27 <foolip> What I was saying, in short: It'd be great to have feedback on the event subscription model for issues we can foresee, but impl experience will likely reveal what needs to change here. Also, I suspect there's a race when disabling events for a subframe, but will file an issue.
16:21:34 <AutomatedTester> ... I would encourage people to look at it and make comments
16:21:55 <AutomatedTester> ... it is CDP-esque but with a lot of the legacy issues from CDP removed
16:22:57 <AutomatedTester> ... the CDP issue of serializing an Array is gone so that you don't have to do N+1 to serialize an array where N is the number in the array
16:23:18 <simonstewart> q+
16:23:29 <AutomatedTester> https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/pull/57
16:24:10 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:24:14 <AutomatedTester> ack simonstewart
16:24:35 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart: Is there any reason why we didnt put NodeID into the Nodes property
16:24:47 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: there is something there already
16:24:57 <AutomatedTester> simonstewart: and this is compatible with webdriver http?
16:25:00 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: yes
16:25:08 <brwalder> q+
16:25:17 <AutomatedTester> ack brwalder
16:26:50 <AutomatedTester> brwalder: I agree that the serialization should have special attributes to work with classic webdriver. We may need to flesh out things that arent serialised in webidl. We may need to handle non-node webidl serialisation. Is there a plan?
16:27:33 <foolip> Well, I'm still joined in the browser, so it won't be better.
16:28:10 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: there are definitely other types that we may want to serial. In the original PR there were generators that could be returned but I removed that
16:28:39 <AutomatedTester> ... There are going to be more platform objects that we should do something special. We're at the stage that it is easy to add those items
16:29:16 <AutomatedTester> ... we can fall back to serialising an object and just serialise all their properties
16:29:20 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:29:41 <AutomatedTester> topic: Targets, browsing contexts and realms
16:30:01 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: This is a question and not a status update
16:30:42 <AutomatedTester> ... an outstanding question is "How do we want to talk about browsing context and realms" in terms of knowing what is there
16:31:11 <AutomatedTester> ... it makes sense to do something that is broadly compatible with CDP so we can migrate that over
16:31:43 <AutomatedTester> ... e.g. Page is a browsing context and it's also the JS execution context
16:32:08 <AutomatedTester> ... and we need to get the tree of browsing contexts below a page
16:32:12 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:32:13 <foolip> Is there an issue that summarizes this?
16:32:49 <brwalder> https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/18
16:34:02 <brwalder> Also https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/42
16:34:10 <jgraham> GitHub: https://github.com/w3c/webdriver-bidi/issues/18
16:35:18 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: Issue 18 is the place to follow up if people dont have questions or opinions right now.
16:35:24 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:35:44 <AutomatedTester> topic: Need WebSocket library for WebDriver BiDi tests
16:35:52 <foolip> foolip: as a heads up, https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/26015 was filed yesterday, and anyone who cares about how BiDi ends up being testing in web-platform-tests might want to follow or comment there.
16:36:04 <AutomatedTester> foolip: as a heads up, https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/26015 was filed yesterday, and anyone who cares about how BiDi ends up being testing in web-platform-tests might want to follow or comment there.
16:37:11 <AutomatedTester> AutomatedTester: is it py3 only ?
16:37:19 <AutomatedTester> foolip: it's py2 and py3
16:37:39 <AutomatedTester> q?
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16:38:08 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: There will be a RFC here for wpt
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16:38:22 <jgraham> q+
16:38:22 <jgraham> q?
16:38:24 <brwalder> q+
16:38:59 <AutomatedTester> ack jgraham
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16:39:19 <jgraham> q?
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16:39:54 <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Would recommend targetting 3.7+ based on selenium experience
16:40:02 <AutomatedTester> AutomatedTester: having done something similar to selenium I recommend that we only use python 3.7+
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16:40:20 <AutomatedTester> q?
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16:40:30 <AutomatedTester> ack brwalder
16:40:55 <jgraham> q+
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16:41:49 <AutomatedTester> brwalder: If in addition to this would we be happy with asyncio?
16:42:06 <AutomatedTester> AutomatedTester: yes, we would need to
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16:42:13 <jgraham> ack jgraham
16:42:23 <AutomatedTester> jgraham: yes and asyncio is wher ethe py3 requirement will come from
16:42:27 <AutomatedTester> q?
16:44:39 <mathiasbynens> jgraham: really appreciate the updated PR — much simpler
16:44:48 <AutomatedTester> chair: AutomatedTester
16:45:26 <AutomatedTester> RRSAgent: make notes v2
16:45:26 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make notes v2', AutomatedTester.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:46:08 <AutomatedTester> Meeting: BTT WG October Meeting
16:46:20 <jgraham> RRSAgent: make minutes v2
16:46:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/10/07-webdriver-minutes.html jgraham
16:46:41 <jgraham> RRSAgent: bye
16:46:41 <RRSAgent> I see no action items