23:47:47 RRSAgent has joined #epub 23:47:47 logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/10/01-epub-irc 23:47:50 RRSAgent, make logs Public 23:47:51 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid 23:48:15 Meeting: EPUB3 Working Group Telco 23:48:27 Chair: shiestyle, wendyreid 23:48:39 Date: 2020-10-01 23:49:47 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub-wg/2020Sep/0016.html 23:57:37 tzviya has joined #epub 23:57:48 MasakazuKitahara has joined #epub 23:58:35 MattChan has joined #epub 23:59:04 toshiakikoike has joined #epub 23:59:04 ShinyaTakami has joined #epub 23:59:11 duga has joined #epub 23:59:39 present+ 23:59:48 present+ 23:59:50 present+ 00:00:30 present+ 00:00:45 present+ 00:00:51 present+ 00:01:17 zhengxu has joined #epub 00:02:09 Teenya has joined #epub 00:02:36 Nellie has joined #epub 00:02:44 present+ 00:02:49 present+ 00:02:57 Zakim, who is here? 00:02:57 Present: toshiakikoike, MattChan, duga, MasakazuKitahara, wendyreid, tzviya, ShinyaTakami, Teenya 00:02:59 On IRC I see Nellie, Teenya, zhengxu, duga, ShinyaTakami, toshiakikoike, MattChan, MasakazuKitahara, tzviya, RRSAgent, Zakim, Karen_, dauwhe, wendyreid 00:03:08 Garth has joined #epub 00:03:31 scribe+ dau 00:03:38 scribe+ dauwhe 00:03:47 wendyreid: let's get started 00:03:56 ... welcome, everyone 00:04:13 ... we have one new member, Matt 00:04:29 MattChan: I'm Matt Chan, cross-media assistant at House of Anansi Press 00:04:35 BenSchroeter has joined #epub 00:04:39 ... I do ebook production 00:04:51 present+ 00:04:53 ... converting from print layouts to ebooks 00:05:00 Kyrce has joined #epub 00:05:09 having trouble getting into zoom 00:05:27 wendyreid: there was a resolution in last week's meeting; a proposal to approve Matt G's changes to the doc structure 00:05:48 ... https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/pull/1330/commits 00:05:57 https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/pull/1330 00:06:27 ... you have until the end of tomorrow to comment 00:06:39 Topic: Media Types 00:06:50 ... we are getting ready to publish our First Public Working Draft 00:07:03 ... one of the first steps in the W3C rec process 00:07:15 ... but we do want to include a few things in the FPWD 00:07:21 marisa has joined #epub 00:07:27 ... we started a discussion about media types 00:07:33 present+ 00:07:39 present+ 00:08:23 tzviya -- there are too many redirects for the login information. I cannot access the password to enter 00:08:28 I can't get through W3C authentication. 00:08:35 me too 00:08:53 ... the EPUB survey mentioned some people wanted new media types for images and audio 00:08:57 ... Ogg was mentioned 00:09:18 q+ 00:09:22 ... but the HTML doesn't specify media types; there is just what the browsers supports 00:09:29 ack Garth 00:09:29 ack gar 00:09:42 Garth: overall, not having our own list is really appealing 00:09:52 ... but I don't know how to do that with fallbacks 00:10:03 ... things have to fall back to a core media type 00:10:11 ... I wonder what Matt G. thinks 00:10:26 q+ 00:10:36 ack duga 00:10:37 Daihei has joined #epub 00:10:45 present+ 00:11:02 duga: (performs John Cage's 4:33) 00:11:40 q+ 00:11:45 ack dauwhe 00:12:03 dauwhe: I'm wary of adding new media types, partly because of fallback, and the load on reading systems 00:12:07 q+ 00:12:14 ... and the risk of incompatibilities 00:12:19 ... bad user experience 00:12:34 ... I think there's some value in EPUB being a bit more conservative than the web 00:12:49 duga: this feels like this is an issue for reading systems 00:12:59 ... but publishers want things to work magically 00:13:09 ... should we expand this question to more implementors? 00:13:24 ... Google would take anything and transcode 00:13:46 ... we take EPUB on the serving side, but make some changes before presenting to the reader 00:13:51 ... can we poll reading systems? 00:14:12 wendyreid: there might be issues when people download a random epub 00:14:17 q+ 00:14:22 ack dug 00:14:26 ack gar 00:14:27 ack Garth 00:14:32 q+ 00:14:40 Garth: I agree with dave, this might get us in trouble 00:14:52 q+ 00:14:54 ... but Avneesh mentioned an audio format that was optimized for speech 00:15:12 ... if there's an a11y advantage, that might make the case more compelling 00:15:36 ... we also decided to leave well enough alone with video formats 00:15:50 wendyreid: ogg and opus aren't the same thing, but are connected 00:15:52 ack zhengxu 00:16:22 zhengxu: one issue is how much the platform supports--android, iOS, etc 00:16:57 ... and we might need to require a fallback from the publisher 00:18:18 ... it's not our layer 00:18:43 wendyreid: opus/ogg is well-supported today, but are there formats that will be well-supported in two years? 00:18:45 ack duga 00:18:51 duga: we have two different paths 00:19:01 ... one is not to worry about media types and open the floodgates 00:19:14 ... the other is that there are some very specific things that we want to allow 00:19:23 ... then we need a specific proposal 00:19:37 ... or maybe we need a process for proposing new media types 00:19:52 ... I don't know how much opus/ogg support is in iOS 00:19:59 wendyreid: I like that 00:20:22 ... we're not finished with this discussion; it's not a FPWD issue 00:20:36 Topic: handling issues going forward 00:20:44 https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/issues 00:20:54 ... we're using the same repo as EPUB 3.2, and EPUB 3.1, and EPUB 3.01, and... 00:21:04 ... we did inherit some issues 00:21:13 ... there are 88 open issues 00:21:30 ... we should probably address some of these 00:21:46 ... so we'll probably try to tackle a handful of issues each meeting 00:22:00 ... if there issues you want addressed, 00:22:16 ... please comment on the issues and raise them to the chairs 00:22:55 ... two issues we want to talk about today are... 00:23:06 https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/issues/1224 00:23:11 Topic: #1224 00:23:26 ... this is about referencing the SSV document, the structural semantics vocabulary 00:24:06 tzviya: the EPUB SSV is a list of acceptable values for epub:type 00:24:23 ... lots of people don't know this document exists, including Rush bassist Geddy Lee 00:24:32 ... this was never a formal part of EPUB spec 00:24:44 ... so the question is how to reference it 00:25:08 ... some stuff in the SSV doc came from edupub or other never-finalized "standards" 00:25:14 ... and there are lots of draft items, etc. 00:25:20 ... needs some cleanup 00:25:29 wendyreid: Matt says that SSV is considered an external registry 00:25:44 tzviya: we now have the option of creating registries 00:25:47 q+ 00:25:56 ack Kyrce 00:26:02 Kyrce: I have questions about this doc 00:26:13 ... how would we ask questions about this? 00:26:23 ... in GitHub? 00:26:32 Yoichiro has joined #epub 00:26:34 wendyreid: if there are specific questions put them in GitHub 00:27:10 Kyrce: more questions like what's deprecated, what is the replacement, why things are there 00:27:17 ... some of the semantics don't quite make sense 00:27:37 tzviya: some of them were deprecated because they came from specs that weren't finalized 00:27:59 ... a lot of the draft terms are really old 00:28:11 ... and they don't have the best names 00:28:26 ... feel free to file github issues, or we could discuss offline 00:28:34 wendyreid: there's stuff from edupub, comics, etc 00:28:47 ... if we go through the registry process we could clean it up or refine it 00:29:03 ... the argument from Matt is that this specific issue is about the reference we make to the document 00:29:34 ... we want to pull this from IDPF into our documents 00:30:06 wendyreid: Matt's OK with closing the issue, if you have objections speak now! 00:30:14 https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/issues/846 00:30:39 Garth has joined #epub 00:31:27 q+ 00:31:40 wendyreid: can we close this issue? 00:31:44 ack duga 00:31:52 duga: matt wanted to make more work for me and you're saying no? I agree. 00:32:05 ... unless someone in the real world wants this, I think it's good to close it 00:32:14 q* 00:32:17 wendyreid: there was no call in the survey for standalone MathML docs 00:33:03 Kyrce: I want to make sure I understand standalone--an entire blob of it? 00:33:15 wendyreid: yes, it would be a standalone MathML file 00:33:24 ... you can still put MathML into XHTML docs 00:33:33 Kyrce: I've seen close to that but not that 00:33:47 ... this makes sense 00:36:19 ShinyaTakami: I can ask our Japanese participants if they have anything else for today's meeting 00:36:58 toshiakikoike: 00:37:13 q+ 00:37:16 ... he is also prepared for the two topics we discussed today, so we don't have a new topic 00:37:33 wendyreid: we'll release the F2F agenda soon 00:37:39 ... will be Oct 22-23 00:37:58 ... at this time on Oct 22 (8PM Eastern Time US) but a 3.5 hour session 00:38:00 q? 00:38:18 ... on the 23rd will be 10AM Eastern Time 00:38:24 q- 00:38:32 ... one of the topics will be EPUB 3 FXL accessibility 00:38:43 ... I've asked for help from webfolk 00:39:02 ... if you know anyone with info on this topic, please contact me 00:39:38 ... we will be sending a proper agenda 00:39:48 ... any questions? 00:40:05 ... if not, we can end a bit early. Thanks! 00:40:17 ... we'll see you next friday 00:40:23 zakim, end meeting 00:40:23 As of this point the attendees have been toshiakikoike, MattChan, duga, MasakazuKitahara, wendyreid, tzviya, ShinyaTakami, Teenya, BenSchroeter, marisa, zhengxu, Daihei 00:40:26 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 00:40:26 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/10/01-epub-minutes.html Zakim 00:40:28 I am happy to have been of service, dauwhe; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 00:40:32 Zakim has left #epub 00:40:37 zhengxu has left #epub 00:40:42 marisa has joined #epub 00:40:45 RRSAgent, make logs public 00:41:26 RRSAgent: bye 00:41:26 I see no action items