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13:15:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/09/25-epub-irc
13:15:53 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:15:54 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
13:16:03 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2020-09-25: https://www.w3.org/mid/571B5ED9-2E38-478B-B468-DFA5D0C46C2E@rakuten.com
13:16:04 <ivan> Chair: wendy, dauwhe
13:16:04 <ivan> Date: 2020-09-25
13:16:04 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/mid/571B5ED9-2E38-478B-B468-DFA5D0C46C2E@rakuten.com
13:16:04 <ivan> Meeting: EPUB 3 Working Group Telco
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14:03:34 <ivan> present +juliette
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14:04:02 <ivan> present+ george
14:04:26 <ivan> present+ charles
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14:04:42 <ivan> regrets+ dauwhe
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14:05:04 <garth> wendy: Minutes coming soon; approve after meeting.
14:05:05 <CharlesL> present+
14:05:16 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/epub-wg/projects
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14:05:26 <garth> … Over view of Projject Structure
14:05:34 <ivan> topic: overview on projects
14:05:40 <garth> … Github Project Managment Tool
14:06:05 <garth> … E.g., Publication Schedule
14:06:24 <garth> … EPUB Testing & A11Y Revision
14:06:40 <romain> q+
14:06:41 <wendyreid> q?
14:06:42 <garth> … Questions?
14:06:44 <George> George has joined #epub
14:06:46 <wendyreid> ack romain
14:06:59 <George> present+
14:07:08 <garth> Romain: Is the Project View accessible?
14:07:32 <garth> … Issues may be better, allow screen readers to see project details.
14:08:24 <Avneesh> q+
14:08:29 <garth> Wendy: Needs explorations; can’t link issues from other projects.  Use tags & lables.
14:08:34 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
14:08:58 <garth> Avneesh: There were issues with editing in the Project View.
14:09:39 <garth> … If it’s the high level view mainly for Chairs, mightbe fine.  Issues are A11Y.
14:09:51 <garth> Wendy: Yes, it should be that way.
14:10:06 <garth> … That’s where status will be.
14:10:18 <ivan> Topic: document structure
14:10:20 <garth> … Document Structure now.
14:10:40 <garth> … Lots of satelite docs historically.
14:10:48 <garth> … How do we do this for EPIB 3.3?
14:10:55 <garth> … What’s Matt thinking?
14:10:57 <ivan> s/EPIB/EPUB/
14:11:23 <garth> mgarrish: Bring the core specs into one specification.
14:11:59 <garth> … Much of what we did in 3.1 headed this direction, but we didn’t do the combination.  Do it now.
14:12:19 <ivan> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/08/epub-wg-charter.html#deliverables for info, the official deliverable list of the WG
14:12:32 <garth> … Simpler with less documents to maintain should be a feature.
14:12:42 <mgarrish> https://mattgarrish.github.io/publ-epub-revision/epub33/spec/epub-spec.html
14:12:45 <garth> … Should help our publishing process.
14:13:13 <garth> … Combine front/back matters, then get to one main document.
14:13:29 <garth> … RS Requirements could be broken out.
14:13:46 <mgarrish> •	https://mattgarrish.github.io/publ-epub-revision/epub33x/spec/epub-rs.html
14:13:50 <garth> … Should they be merged (or not) with Content requirements?
14:14:24 <ivan> q+
14:14:30 <garth> … These are a couple of simplification options.
14:14:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:14:36 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:14:50 <garth> ivan: Reference to charter above.
14:15:06 <Hadrien> present+
14:15:08 <garth> … MO and A11Y are seperate.  Why?
14:15:45 <ivan> q+
14:15:55 <garth> mgarrish: Consolidate the core, MO is not required — so keeping that secondary may make sense.
14:16:02 <garth> … Could also combine all.
14:16:16 <ivan> q-
14:16:24 <Avneesh> q+
14:16:42 <wendyreid> ack Bill_Kasdorf
14:16:42 <garth> wendyreid: Agree on MO.  Maybe A11Y wants to be combined in to the main spec?
14:16:53 <CharlesL> q+
14:16:53 <mgarrish> q+
14:16:58 <garth> Bill_Kasdorf: Likes RS requirements being broken out.
14:17:18 <garth> … Likes A11Y being part of Core.
14:17:33 <zhengxu_> q+
14:17:44 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
14:17:49 <garth> … If RS Reqs would be broken out, how much content needs duplication?
14:18:25 <garth> Avneesh: A11Y was broken out to support independent versioning and branding.
14:18:54 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
14:18:55 <ivan> q+
14:18:59 <garth> … Europpean A112Y Act — A11Y will be presented thee — being standalone helps.
14:18:59 <Bill_Kasdorf> I'm sold by Avneesh that A11y needs to be its own document
14:19:10 <garth> CharlesL: Agree with Avneesh.
14:19:34 <garth> … Though A11Y doesn’t want to be step-child.
14:19:42 <garth> … A11Y might want to move faster.
14:19:49 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
14:19:54 <garth> … Still “born accessible” but sperate might be better.
14:20:25 <garth> mgarrish: A11Y is vesion indeptendant.  So broken out makes sense.
14:21:33 <garth> … This not overly complicaed.  Ppossiblr to break RS Conformance.
14:21:37 <wendyreid> ack zhengxu_
14:22:33 <mgarrish> q+
14:22:36 <garth> zhengxu_: A11Y broken out from RS Conformance makes sense.
14:23:11 <garth> … Difficult to connect with MO, provided by publisher.
14:23:27 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:23:38 <garth> … Good to draw some line — A11Y for EPUB and A11Y for Content.
14:23:49 <wendyreid> q+
14:24:03 <Avneesh> q+
14:24:05 <garth> ivan: Understand what Avneesh was saying, but maybe there is some middle count.
14:24:24 <garth> … We clearly don’t want folks to ignore A11Y reqs.
14:24:46 <garth> … When we publish at the end, could we renumber the A11Y to match (at that point in time).
14:24:54 <garth> … So it feels like a complete set.
14:25:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:25:22 <garth> … Just like MO.
14:25:24 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
14:25:47 <garth> Avneesh: EPUB A11Y can be applied to all EPUBs (1.x … 3.x).
14:25:48 <George> q+
14:25:57 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
14:26:03 <garth> … Tying to EPUB 3.3 could create wrong impression.
14:26:25 <garth> mgarrish: Yep, get that.  Started at 1.0 as it started later.
14:26:36 <garth> … like CFI too.
14:26:50 <garth> … It would be strange to jump to 3.3
14:27:13 <garth> … There is an A11Y spec a section dealing with RS A11Y.
14:27:37 <wendyreid> q-
14:27:41 <zhengxu_> q+
14:27:46 <wendyreid> ack Bill_Kasdorf
14:28:13 <Avneesh> Just for information EPUB reading system accesssibility protocol is in actin at www.epubtest.org
14:28:19 <wendyreid> ack George
14:28:24 <garth> Bill_Kasdorf: Might not be good to tie A11Y to EPUB to support updates on their one timelines.
14:28:54 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/one/own/
14:28:54 <garth> George: WCAG 1.2 was specifially about HTML, extracted and expanded in 2.0.
14:29:25 <garth> … We reference other specs in our specs (HTML, XML), could we do the same with the A11Y spec?
14:29:33 <garth> … Reference the latest version.
14:29:40 <Avneesh> george, it is already referenced.
14:29:42 <mgarrish> q+
14:30:05 <wendyreid> ack zhengxu_
14:30:07 <garth> … Incorporaste A11Y metadata,  So, don’t include the spec into the 3.3 integrate/refence the then current version.
14:30:19 <garth> zhengxu_: Not crazy.
14:30:32 <wendyreid> q+
14:31:16 <garth> … MO should be seperate.  A11Y covers voice over — different from MO.
14:32:33 <wendyreid> ack mat
14:32:36 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
14:32:40 <garth> … Should provide something to be more accessible for 3.3.  Consider RS implementations.
14:33:26 <garth> mgarrish: EPUB A11Y Spec may wind down in lue of “silver requriements”?  Thus, broken out may make sense for that reason.
14:33:27 <wendyreid> ack wendyreid
14:33:34 <ivan> q+
14:33:48 <garth> wendyreid: Worth digging into further.
14:34:05 <garth> … We do have a TPAC meeting with APA/Silver folks.
14:34:14 <garth> … Should discuss schedules.
14:35:10 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:35:12 <garth> … Can we come to some decision re Document structure.  Matt’s proposal seems a good start.
14:35:25 <garth> ivan: Ivan and Wendy are mind melding!
14:35:59 <garth> … Can we have consense on what I put in IRC?
14:36:34 <garth> … Need to map Charter Docs on to the above.
14:36:48 <garth> … Can we resolve with this?
14:36:55 <ivan> Proposal: we will publish the following documents: EPUB 3.3 Content, EPUB 3.3 RS, Accessibility 1.1, Media Overlays 3.3
14:36:56 <CharlesL> q+
14:37:01 <duga> q+
14:37:05 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
14:37:19 <wendyreid> ack duga
14:37:37 <ivan> +1
14:37:47 <duga> +1
14:37:52 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
14:37:53 <garth> duga: Have faith in Matt — content/RS split needs to be understood.
14:37:53 <mgarrish> +1
14:37:55 <wendyreid> +1
14:38:01 <garth> +1
14:38:02 <CharlesL> +1
14:38:04 <toshiakikoike> +1
14:38:09 <MasakazuKitahara> +1
14:38:15 <zhengxu_> +1
14:38:17 <George> +1
14:38:21 <Avneesh> +1
14:38:23 <garth> Avneesh: 1.1 for A11Y is fine for now.
14:38:30 <ivan> Resolution: we will publish the following documents: EPUB 3.3 Content, EPUB 3.3 RS, Accessibility 1.1, Media Overlays 3.3
14:38:54 <ivan> Topic: FPWD
14:39:01 <garth> wendyreid: FPWD next.
14:39:23 <garth> … Stake in the ground for the project.
14:39:34 <ivan> q+
14:39:35 <garth> … Advantage of starting with fully implemented dcoument.
14:39:49 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/publ-epub-revision/issues
14:39:54 <garth> … Just the result of restructuring could be FPWD.
14:40:04 <Avneesh> q+
14:40:12 <garth> … Or we could tackle somes issues in the FPWD.
14:40:17 <garth> … Typos would be easy!
14:40:23 <garth> … Any other pet issues?
14:40:29 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:41:09 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
14:41:09 <garth> ivan: FPWD is what starts the whole IPR proceedure.  IPR seems like it’s not a huge issue with EPUB.
14:41:48 <garth> Avneesh: FPWD of EPUB A11Y — 1.5 year effort on ISO version.
14:42:12 <garth> … ISO version improved readability.
14:42:32 <garth> … We should bring those enhancements into the EPUB A11Y version for FPWD.
14:42:41 <garth> ivan: Sounds Good.  For 1.1.
14:42:47 <George> q+
14:42:52 <wendyreid> ack George
14:43:30 <garth> George: When we port the ISO version back, we re-W3C the should’s, must’s, et al.
14:43:44 <garth> … Maybe slihgtly worried about what ISO would think.
14:43:46 <CharlesL> q+
14:44:30 <Avneesh> q+
14:44:43 <CharlesL> q-
14:44:58 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
14:45:29 <mgarrish> q+
14:45:36 <George> q+
14:46:03 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
14:46:37 <garth> mgarrish: ISO version work would be inspiration for W3C/IDPF version.
14:46:40 <wendyreid> ack George
14:47:22 <garth> George: Always an expectation that spec would evolve within W3C.
14:47:39 <garth> … Geroge is feeling good!  :-)
14:48:13 <ivan> q+
14:48:20 <ivan> q-
14:48:44 <Avneesh> q+
14:48:47 <garth> wendyreid: Any other issues that should be included FPWD?  Maybe new Core Media types?  Image, audio, video?
14:49:31 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
14:49:44 <garth> Avneesh: OPUS was in queue since IDPF days.
14:50:07 <garth> … Not enough browser support in the old days — things likely changes (for the better) by now.
14:50:12 <ivan> q+
14:50:36 <garth> wendyreid: OPUS looks generally supported.
14:50:41 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:50:57 <mgarrish> q+
14:51:01 <garth> ivan: New media types could be a techncial low hanging fruit.
14:51:30 <garth> … Would such mean each RS would need to handle these new Media Types?
14:51:38 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
14:51:42 <garth> … Backward compatibility, oh my!
14:51:44 <zhengxu_> q+
14:52:20 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:52:29 <garth> mgarrish: Core Media type may not directly drive Core support — but one does audio need to do ‘em all.  So, yes, an issue.
14:52:57 <ivan> q+
14:52:58 <garth> … Do we have a policy on adding types?  Need to all be royalty free?
14:53:06 <wendyreid> ack zhengxu_
14:54:24 <garth> zhengxu_: Support is not really a “force” to support.  Up to implementor.  Recomendation rather than force.
14:54:46 <garth> … unsure we really need such Core Media types specified.
14:54:55 <garth> … What about fallbacks?
14:55:03 <garth> q?
14:55:39 <garth> … Need to consider work with epubcheck too.
14:55:45 <wendyreid> ack Bill_Kasdorf
14:55:53 <wendyreid> zakim, close queue
14:55:53 <Zakim> ok, wendyreid, the speaker queue is closed
14:56:20 <garth> Bill_Kasdorf: OPUS might be fine as “generally implemented” and we’d be equally early in the spec process.
14:56:22 <wendyreid> ack ivan
14:56:51 <duga> q+
14:56:54 <garth> ivan: Now we list media types.  Can we just refer back to HTML5?
14:57:08 <garth> … and be off the hook ourselves.
14:58:17 <garth> duga: Really complicated issue.  Not one to be resolved today.  OPUS needs special handing on iOS/macOS.  Not a rathole for today!
14:58:57 <garth> wendyreid: Made one big decision.  FPWD published by TPAC?  One a month out!
15:00:00 <ivan> regrets+ tzviya
15:00:23 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #epub
15:00:29 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
15:00:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Daihei, toshiakikoike, ivan, wendyreid, MasakazuKitahara, zhengxu_, Avneesh, garth, mgarrish, brady, duga, billk, romain, hadrien,
15:00:30 <zhengxu_> zhengxu_ has left #epub
15:00:32 <Zakim> ... Bill_Kasdorf, george, charles, CharlesL
15:00:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:00:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/09/25-epub-minutes.html Zakim
15:00:34 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:00:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #epub
15:04:25 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
15:04:25 <RRSAgent> I see no action items