11:59:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #Miniapp
11:59:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-Miniapp-irc
11:59:40 <xueyuan> xueyuan has joined #miniapp
11:59:44 <angel> Meeting: MiniApp CG Call
11:59:46 <angel> Chair: Angel
12:00:12 <angel> agenda+ MiniApp Workshop recap by Wendy (W3C)
12:00:16 <xfq> rrsagent, make log member
12:00:32 <angel> agenda+ Next Step for MiniApp standardization (WG Charter, Joint Meetings, Joint TF, etc)
12:00:36 <angel> agenda + TPAC Plan
12:00:40 <angel> agenda + AoB
12:00:44 <Qing_An> Qing_An has joined #miniapp
12:00:56 <angel> zakim, take up agenda 8
12:00:56 <Zakim> agendum 8. "MiniApp Workshop recap by Wendy (W3C)" taken up [from angel]
12:01:18 <xiaoqian> xiaoqian has joined #miniapp
12:01:27 <wseltzer> present+
12:01:34 <xiaoqian> present+
12:01:56 <xiaoqian> zakim, agenda?
12:01:56 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
12:01:57 <Zakim> 5. MiniApp & Web platform [from wseltzer]
12:01:57 <Zakim> 6. MiniApp Standardization [from wseltzer]
12:01:57 <Zakim> 7. Wrap up & Next steps [from wseltzer]
12:01:57 <Zakim> 8. MiniApp Workshop recap by Wendy (W3C) [from angel]
12:01:57 <Zakim> 9. Next Step for MiniApp standardization (WG Charter, Joint Meetings, Joint TF, etc) [from angel]
12:01:58 <Zakim> 10. TPAC Plan [from angel]
12:01:58 <Zakim> 11. AoB [from angel]
12:02:00 <wseltzer> https://www.w3.org/2020/07/seltzer-miniapp-slides.pdf
12:02:16 <angel> scribe: xfq
12:02:33 <plh> plh has joined #miniapp
12:03:20 <xfq> wendy: @@
12:03:20 <xfq> ... set up joint meetings
12:03:27 <xiaoqian> meeting: MiniApp Monthly TeleConf
12:03:52 <xfq> ... @@ learn from the miniapp ecosystem as well
12:04:30 <xfq> ... the group has already worked on manifest, packaging, lifecycle, URI scheme
12:04:39 <xfq> ... security model and permissions
12:04:58 <xiaoqian> topic: MiniApp Workshop Recap
12:05:29 <xfq> ... we heard from participants in the workshop
12:05:31 <xfq> ... we want to have a single place of contact and information from participants
12:05:31 <xfq> ... even if some of the requirements and features cooridanated with others
12:05:48 <xfq> ... series of conversations in our virtual tpac meeting
12:06:05 <xfq> ... we have built the strong support among the community
12:06:23 <wseltzer> q?
12:06:29 <xfq> ... I heard from the CG that there's great interest in a WG
12:06:35 <xiaoqian> present+ plh, angel, Qing_An , Dan_Zhou, Vitaliy_Zasadnyy, Tengyuan_Zhang
12:06:40 <tomayac> present+
12:06:42 <angel> q+
12:06:43 <xfq> ... questions or comments?
12:06:55 <xiaoqian> present+ Thomas_Steiner
12:07:19 <xfq> angel: any feedback for our scope and the way we're heading for?
12:07:29 <xiaoqian> present+ Dmitry_Llinkskiy, Yongjing_Zhang
12:07:42 <xfq> ... good show of interest and willingness to work together
12:08:04 <xfq> ... see where we can reuse the experience we have on the web platform
12:08:18 <xfq> ... new features in the web platform
12:08:34 <xfq> angel: any questions or comments for wendy?
12:08:41 <xfq> [silence]
12:08:55 <xiaoqian> present+ Han_Huang
12:09:21 <xfq> angel: that's the great recap
12:09:22 <xfq> ... after the recap we should talk about the way forward
12:09:22 <xfq> ... lots of discussions about joint meetings
12:09:36 <xfq> ... wonder if plh can share what we should do
12:09:54 <xfq> ... what would be gthe necessary preparation step for creating a WG?
12:10:02 <xfq> s/gthe/the/
12:10:19 <xfq> plh: still a lot of questions about the charter
12:10:21 <xfq> ... e.g., on scope
12:10:28 <wseltzer> s/wendy: @@/wendy: We concluded with next steps. CG to refine the scope of MiniApp WG charter/
12:10:59 <xfq> ... one of the questions we need to answer is the runtime environment question asked by Baidu
12:11:02 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/2020/07/31-miniapp-minutes.html#t05
12:11:09 <xiaoqian> topic: Next Step for MiniApp standardization
12:11:54 <xfq> ... after we answer the runtime question, we can figure out
12:11:56 <xfq> ... how much work can happen in the miniapp WG, and how much work can happen in other WGs
12:12:31 <xfq> angel: I'm a little bit worried about this question
12:12:31 <xfq> ... chicken and egg problem
12:13:12 <xfq> ... there should be a way for the miniapp vendors themselves to answer this question
12:13:12 <xfq> ... if they can't answer this questions, can we move forward?
12:14:17 <xfq> plh: it's not a blocker
12:14:19 <xfq> ... but we need to know what we write into the charter
12:14:19 <xfq> ... e.g., if we need to add lifecycle in the WG charter
12:14:21 <xfq> ... it's possible that miniapp runtime is different from web runtime
12:14:21 <xfq> ... and miniapp needs a new WG
12:14:44 <xfq> ... I hope the CG has some answers on the runtime question
12:15:11 <xfq> ... we should also look at the current 4 specs, not just the runtime question
12:15:28 <xfq> ... for uri scheme, we need clear use cases and requirements
12:15:49 <Chunming> Chunming has joined #miniapp
12:15:56 <Roy> Roy has joined #miniapp
12:16:05 <xfq> ... for manifest, I had a meeting with the webapps WG chairs
12:16:06 <xfq> ... including editor of the the web app manifest
12:16:40 <xfq> ... we need to see if we can converge
12:16:40 <xfq> ... would be great if miniapp manifest editor can have a call with them
12:16:52 <xfq> ... need more study on packacging
12:17:12 <xiaoqian> q+
12:17:28 <xfq> ... whether the two packaging formats should converge
12:17:32 <angel> zakim, ack angel
12:17:32 <Zakim> I see xiaoqian on the speaker queue
12:17:37 <angel> zakim, ack xiaoqian
12:17:37 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
12:18:07 <xfq> xiaoqian: fuqiao and I will look at the differences of the browser and miniapp runtime
12:18:07 <xfq> ... you may expect questions frrom us
12:18:41 <xfq> ... any one who is interesting in manifest, feel free to joiin the joint call with webapps WG
12:18:48 <xfq> angel: when is the joint meeting?
12:18:51 <tomayac> (I would be interested in joining the manifest meeting.)
12:18:57 <xfq> xiaoqian: targeting next wekk
12:19:24 <xfq> yongjing: next week would be difficilt for me
12:19:25 <xfq> ... postpone one week?
12:19:27 <xfq> xiaoqian: sure
12:19:37 <xfq> ... you're the key person here
12:19:52 <xfq> angel: the week of August 17
12:20:03 <xfq> ... open to all miniapp CG participants
12:20:16 <xfq> plh: the meeting will focus on manifest
12:20:38 <Chunming> s/next wekk/next week/
12:20:45 <xfq> plh: marcos told me they're moving it to CR
12:20:46 <xfq> ... do not expect to add new features now
12:20:46 <xfq> ... but welcome proposals
12:21:18 <tomayac> (I'm in the Berlin time zone)
12:21:21 <xfq> angel: good to know
12:21:58 <xfq> ... for URI, we need to hear from Baidu if they're willing to come up with more use cases and reqs
12:22:01 <xfq> plh: we also have yves lafon to look at it on our side
12:22:49 <xfq> plh: for packaging, uri scheme, runtime, we need some study
12:22:50 <xfq> ... hope to finish the study by the end of tthis month
12:23:22 <xfq> angel: for packaging, anyone to talk to?
12:23:23 <xfq> plh: not yet
12:23:33 <xfq> ... should do some study first
12:23:42 <wseltzer> q+
12:23:53 <angel> ack wendy
12:23:55 <xfq> ... packaging work is between w3c and ietf
12:23:56 <xfq> ... probably need ietf participation too
12:24:13 <xfq> wendy: many of them in ietf are also in w3c
12:24:14 <xfq> ... not very far to reach out
12:24:30 <xfq> angel: any specific actions we need to take?
12:24:53 <xfq> ... after the study, do we need joint meeting with them?
12:24:58 <xfq> plh: potentially yes
12:25:20 <xfq> ... if the use cases and reqs are too different we might work on them in miniapp WG
12:25:46 <xfq> angel: last topic, lifecycle
12:25:48 <xfq> plh: dependent on the runtime
12:25:53 <xfq> ... figure out the design choices
12:26:45 <xfq> angel: difficult to find a document in W3C
12:26:46 <xfq> ... understand that w3c needs one document to document all lifecycles
12:27:21 <xfq> plh: do we write specs for developers? implementors?
12:27:22 <xfq> ... nowadays we write specs for implementors
12:28:28 <xiaoqian> q+
12:28:45 <xiaoqian> ack wseltzer
12:28:51 <angel> ack xiaoqian
12:29:05 <xfq> plh: if in the end the two runtime are too different
12:29:06 <xfq> ... then it's up to the CG for how to write the specs
12:30:45 <xfq> xiaoqian: apple, google, facebook proposed their solutions on deeplinks
12:30:45 <xfq> ... we need to look into these solutions
12:30:45 <xfq> ... understand if they cover our usage
12:30:58 <wseltzer> q-
12:31:10 <xfq> ... same for packaging etc.
12:31:33 <xfq> angel: let's hear from otherr participants
12:31:33 <xfq> ... esp. miniapp vendors
12:31:38 <xfq> ... about the next step
12:32:10 <xiaoqian> [Angel explains the proposals in Chinese]
12:35:50 <xfq> angel: if you like the plan, +1
12:35:51 <xfq> ... don't care, 0
12:35:51 <xfq> ... don't like it, -1
12:36:03 <xfq> yongjing: +1
12:36:12 <xfq> xfq: +1
12:36:19 <Qing_An> +1
12:36:41 <tomayac> 0 (as an observer)
12:37:07 <xiaoqian> From Dan Zhou-baidu to Everyone: (8:36 PM)
12:37:07 <xiaoqian> 
1

12:37:07 <xiaoqian> From zuming@baidu to Everyone: (8:36 PM)
12:37:07 <xiaoqian> 
+1

12:37:07 <xiaoqian> From 张腾元-Ternence to Everyone: (8:36 PM)
12:37:08 <xiaoqian> 
+1
12:37:11 <xfq> dan_zhou: +1
12:37:28 <angel> +1
12:38:00 <xfq> angel: will move forward with the plan
12:38:21 <xfq> ... let's wait for three morre months
12:38:34 <xfq> s/months/weeks/
12:38:39 <xfq> ... thank you all!
12:38:57 <xfq> topic: TPAC planning
12:39:02 <xfq> angel: plan for TPAC?
12:39:24 <xfq> angel: would you like to have a CG meeting in TPAC?
12:39:25 <xfq> ... joint meeting with other groups?
12:39:27 <xiaoqian> Joint Group meetings - week of 12-16 October
12:39:28 <xiaoqian> WG/IG/BG Group Meetings - week of 19-23 October
12:39:28 <xiaoqian> the TPAC breakout sessions - week of 26 to 30 October
12:39:54 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2020/GroupMeetings
12:40:16 <xfq> [xiaoqian introduces TPAC to CG participants]
12:41:19 <xfq> xiaoqian: due to covid-19, tpac this year is virtual
12:41:41 <xfq> ... we need to reach out to relevant groups if we would like to have joint meetings with them
12:42:35 <xfq> ... we can also talk in breakout sessions about new ideas for standardization
12:43:04 <xfq> ... any interest in joint meetings and/or CG virtual f2f?
12:43:27 <xfq> angel: thank you xiaoqian for the intro
12:44:06 <xiaoqian> +1 to make the Oct Month Call the TPAC meeting for the CG
12:44:28 <xfq> angel: there's CG call in Sep anyway
12:44:29 <xfq> ... we can make use of the tpac slot
12:44:44 <xfq> ... any objection?
12:44:49 <xfq> [silence]
12:44:58 <xfq> angel: for joint meetings
12:45:04 <xfq> ... web apps? service worker?
12:45:17 <xfq> ... what's the procedure for joint meetings?
12:45:34 <xfq> xiaoqian: not sure if service worker wg meets in tpac
12:46:02 <xfq> angel: not in https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2020/GroupMeetings#WG.2FIG.2FBG_Group_Meetings_details currently
12:46:28 <xfq> xiaoqian: maybe the chairs can reach out to these groups after the study of the runtime
12:46:49 <xfq> angel: but the deadline for filling the table is 13 August
12:47:01 <xfq> ... there's only one week
12:47:49 <xfq> angel: next call, September 10, same time
12:48:17 <tomayac> Looking forward to hearing the runtime plans!
12:48:41 <xfq> ... I wonder if some of us can meeting before that to talk about runtime
12:48:50 <xfq> s/meeting/meet/
12:49:00 <xfq> ... any preference?
12:49:06 <xfq> [silence]
12:49:33 <xfq> angel: let's target August 21, same time as today
12:50:11 <xfq> s/August 21, same time as today/the week of August 17, will send a Doodle poll/
12:51:30 <xfq> angel: thank you all!
12:51:37 <xfq> [adjourned]
12:51:44 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
12:51:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-Miniapp-minutes.html xfq
12:51:47 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes v2
12:51:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-Miniapp-minutes.html xfq
12:53:04 <angel> rrsagent, log minutes
12:53:04 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'log minutes', angel.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
12:53:15 <angel> rrsagent, make log public
13:05:40 <xfq> present+
13:05:52 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes v2
13:05:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/08/06-Miniapp-minutes.html xfq