IRC log of miniapp on 2020-07-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:13:07 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-irc
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13:22:51 [dka_]
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13:22:58 [dka_]
present+ Dan Appelquist
13:23:38 [wanming2]
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13:23:44 [xfq]
present+ Fuqiao_Xue_W3C, Qiang_Jia_China_Mobile
13:24:01 [xfq]
present+ Xueyuan_Jia_W3C
13:24:07 [xfq]
present+ Dan_Zhou_Baidu
13:24:34 [xfq]
present+ Wendy_Seltzer_W3C
13:24:45 [xfq]
present+ Yinli_Chen_Xiaomi
13:24:52 [Yinli_Chen]
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13:24:59 [xfq]
present?
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present+ Zhenjie_Li_W3C
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present+ Chuangjie_Luo_Vivo
13:27:12 [Angel]
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13:27:13 [xfq]
present+ Jiaying_Liang_W3C
13:27:38 [xfq]
present+ Alexandra_Lacourba_W3C
13:27:49 [xiaoqian]
present+ Xiaoqian_Wu_W3C
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13:27:52 [xfq]
present+ Philippe_Le_Hégaret_W3C
13:27:59 [Angel]
present+ Angel
13:28:00 [wanming2]
present+ Wanming_Lin_Intel
13:29:10 [xfq]
present+ Dominique_Hazaël-Massieux_W3C
13:29:22 [Ralph]
present+ Ralph_Swick_(W3C)
13:29:58 [xfq]
present+ Ivan_Herman_W3C
13:30:11 [xfq]
present+ Canfeng_Chen_Xiaomi
13:30:32 [xfq]
present+ Mike_Smith_W3C
13:30:38 [xfq]
present+ Ming_Zu_Baidu
13:31:16 [xfq]
present+ Theresa_Apple
13:31:26 [xfq]
present+ Chunming_Hu_W3C
13:31:43 [dom]
s/Theresa_Apple/Theresa_O_Connor_(Apple)
13:32:12 [hober]
s/O_Connor/O'Connor/
13:32:30 [jiaqiang]
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13:32:41 [Qing_An]
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13:32:48 [xfq]
present+ Martin_Alvarez_Espinar_Fundacion_CTIC
13:32:52 [xiaoqian]
present+ Qiang_Jia_China_Mobile
13:33:04 [xiaoqian]
present+ Qing_An_Alibaba
13:33:06 [xfq]
zakim, who is here
13:33:06 [Zakim]
xfq, you need to end that query with '?'
13:33:09 [xfq]
zakim, who is here?
13:33:09 [Zakim]
Present: Angel, Ming_Zu, Yinli_Chen, Canfeng_Chen, Han, Tenyuan_Zhang, Qing_An, Xiaoqian, Fuqiao, Xueyuan, Dan, Appelquist, Fuqiao_Xue_W3C, Qiang_Jia_China_Mobile, Xueyuan_Jia_W3C,
13:33:12 [Zakim]
... Dan_Zhou_Baidu, Wendy_Seltzer_W3C, Yinli_Chen_Xiaomi, Zhenjie_Li_W3C, Chuangjie_Luo_Vivo, Jiaying_Liang_W3C, Alexandra_Lacourba_W3C, Xiaoqian_Wu_W3C, Philippe_Le_Hégaret_W3C,
13:33:12 [Zakim]
... Wanming_Lin_Intel, Dominique_Hazaël-Massieux_W3C, Ralph_Swick_(W3C), Ivan_Herman_W3C, Canfeng_Chen_Xiaomi, Mike_Smith_W3C, Ming_Zu_Baidu, Theresa_Apple, Chunming_Hu_W3C,
13:33:12 [Zakim]
... Martin_Alvarez_Espinar_Fundacion_CTIC, Qing_An_Alibaba
13:33:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Qing_An, jiaqiang, hober, zhoudan, Angel, xiaoqian, zhenjie_, Yinli_Chen, wanming2, dka_, wseltzer_screen, RRSAgent, plh, xfq, Ralph, dom, wseltzer, xueyuan,
13:33:16 [Zakim]
... MikeSmith, Zakim, ella, cwilso, slightlyoff, sangwhan, dbaron, Jiaying
13:33:26 [plh]
present+
13:33:33 [xfq]
present+ Sangwhan_Moon
13:33:38 [chunming]
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13:33:51 [tidoust]
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13:33:59 [xfq]
present+ Yongjing_Zhang_Huawei
13:34:30 [Angel]
present+ Qing_An
13:34:37 [hober]
present+ Theresa_O'Connor_Apple/TAG
13:34:46 [hober]
present- Theresa_Apple
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13:36:14 [xfq]
present+ Keith_Gu_Google
13:36:28 [xfq]
present+ Kazuyuki_Ashimura_W3C
13:36:50 [xfq]
present+ Vitaliy_Zasadnyy_Facebook
13:36:51 [xiaoqian]
scribe: xiaoqian
13:37:11 [xfq]
present+ Nicole_Yu_Alipay
13:37:32 [weiler]
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13:37:39 [xiaoqian]
wseltzer: please join IRC for our speaker queue
13:37:42 [ivan]
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13:37:49 [xiaoqian]
... thank you everyone to make this meeting possible
13:38:13 [kaz]
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13:38:32 [xiaoqian]
... you can find the agenda on the website
13:38:43 [xiaoqian]
... hope you have reviewed the material beforehand
13:38:55 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura-W3C
13:39:14 [tomayac3]
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13:39:15 [xiaoqian]
... I'm Wendy Seltzer, W3C Strategy Lead
13:39:39 [xiaoqian]
... we are looking into new technologies and how can they fit into the Web
13:40:06 [xiaoqian]
... in W3C we work on consensus by standards
13:40:24 [xiaoqian]
... it's not about finding the perfect
13:40:55 [xfq]
present+ Alex_Russell_Google
13:40:58 [xiaoqian]
... can we do something global and for the whole platform
13:41:09 [xfq]
present+ François_Daoust_W3C
13:41:26 [xfq]
present+ Thomas_Steiner_Google
13:41:29 [xiaoqian]
... please join the discussion and contribute your ideas
13:41:36 [xiaoqian]
... share understanding
13:41:42 [slightlyoff]
present+ Alex_Russell_Google
13:41:47 [xfq]
present+ Yves_Lafon_W3C
13:41:56 [xiaoqian]
... find opportunity for dialogs to reach concensus
13:42:06 [xfq]
present+ Jiaxun_Wei_Baidu
13:42:20 [xiaoqian]
... hope by the end of tomorrow we can have concrete plan to move to the next step
13:42:40 [xiaoqian]
... Yinli Chen will lead us in the MiniApp Overview discussion
13:43:14 [xiaoqian]
Yinli: this is Yinli from Xiaomi, I'm going to talk to you in Chinese
13:43:47 [xfq]
q?
13:43:54 [wseltzer]
q?
13:43:57 [xfq]
q+
13:44:00 [xiaoqian]
... in the pre-recording video, I shared with you what's MiniApp and how miniApp works
13:44:18 [wseltzer]
ack next
13:44:23 [xiaoqian]
Wendy: thank you for preparing the material, any questions?
13:44:49 [xiaoqian]
xfq: I noticed that miniapp communicate with other apps is mentioned in the video
13:44:57 [xiaoqian]
... what's the plan on this area?
13:45:18 [igarashi]
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13:45:36 [dom]
q+ to ask mini-apps market convergence, mini-app outside of China, browser <-> mini app interactions
13:45:38 [xiaoqian]
Yinli: I'm going to answer the question from the prospective of QuickApp
13:46:11 [xiaoqian]
... in QuickApp there is a high-level API for a communication channel
13:46:23 [xiaoqian]
... the package is send through this channel
13:46:28 [wseltzer]
q?
13:46:36 [wseltzer]
ack next
13:46:37 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to ask mini-apps market convergence, mini-app outside of China, browser <-> mini app interactions
13:46:57 [xiaoqian]
dom: in turns of the overview of MiniApp
13:47:16 [xiaoqian]
... want to get some clarification where do miniapp fit into the overall platform
13:47:39 [xiaoqian]
... the CG is looking to conversion of the MiniApp platform in China
13:47:54 [xiaoqian]
... how many users will be covered by these platforms?
13:48:07 [xiaoqian]
... how broadly is it this used outside China?
13:48:31 [igarashi_]
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13:48:45 [xiaoqian]
... how can it be in and out the Web Platform?
13:48:47 [wseltzer]
q?
13:49:09 [xfq]
present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi_Sony
13:49:34 [xfq]
present+ Nathan_Schloss_Facebook
13:49:36 [xiaoqian]
Angel: I would like to explain some observation for my own
13:49:40 [Roy]
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13:49:52 [Roy]
scribe: Roy
13:49:53 [xiaoqian]
... we are seeing MiniApp platforms in Asia
13:49:58 [xiaoqian]
... f.ex., Line
13:49:59 [xfq]
present+ Roy_Ran_W3C
13:50:32 [xiaoqian]
... we are seeing similar hybret apps with MiniApp
13:50:38 [wseltzer]
q?
13:51:03 [wseltzer]
s/hybret/hybrid/
13:51:10 [xiaoqian]
dom: the third Q is about how MiniApp browser pages?
13:51:23 [xiaoqian]
s/browser/browse
13:51:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq
13:52:00 [xiaoqian]
... in URI proposal, there seems to be an expectation you can follow a link in and out the webpage
13:52:30 [xiaoqian]
scribe+ Roy
13:52:47 [wseltzer]
q?
13:52:58 [xiaoqian]
Angel: @@
13:53:25 [xiaoqian]
wendy: any other opening comments?
13:53:33 [xfq]
agenda?
13:53:36 [Roy]
Wendy: next will be the tag reveiw
13:53:48 [xfq]
agenda=
13:53:53 [Roy]
Dan: work for samsung
13:53:59 [xfq]
zakim, clear agenda
13:53:59 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
13:54:02 [Roy]
... in TAG in W3C
13:54:07 [xfq]
Topic: TAG review
13:54:37 [wseltzer]
agenda+ Break
13:54:43 [wseltzer]
agenda+ MiniApp Manifest & Packaging
13:54:50 [wseltzer]
agenda+ MiniApp Lifecycle
13:54:55 [wseltzer]
agenda+ Wrap up
13:55:32 [xfq]
TAG Review / Statement on MiniApp Specs -> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/blob/master/reviews/miniapps_feedback.md
13:55:36 [Roy]
... I mentioned this in our feedback document, the border of eco
13:55:44 [igarashi]
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13:55:58 [Angel]
s/@@/as for MiniApp and web pages, as far as I know, there is no miniapp running in browser conext yet in CHina, but the vision is to get MiniApp ubiquitous, and that's why MiniApp community came to W3C to make standards for it
13:56:03 [xfq]
present+ Shuo_Wang_Baidu
13:56:24 [Roy]
... developers will be able to take advantage of the robust documentation available on the web platform, such as exists on MDN, we set this document for weeks from now
13:56:52 [Roy]
... this document in reference to 3 TAG review requests
13:57:10 [Roy]
... thank for being requested to review
13:57:19 [igarashi_]
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13:57:28 [Roy]
... and thanks for going TAG process
13:57:39 [ivan]
present+ Ivan_Herman_W3C
13:57:40 [Roy]
... we want to play a positive role
13:59:06 [wseltzer]
i|this is Yinli|Topic: MiniApp Overview
13:59:14 [Roy]
... one web is muti-browser, Muti-OS and device
13:59:20 [zuming]
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13:59:27 [dom]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/#tc Thematic Consistency
13:59:33 [wseltzer]
i|please join IRC|Topic: Welcome and Objectives
13:59:48 [wseltzer]
i|please join IRC|-> https://www.w3.org/2020/07/seltzer-miniapp-slides.pdf Introductory Slides
13:59:58 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:59:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html wseltzer
14:00:10 [Roy]
... in TPAC last year, we should aim to converge with WebAPP, etc.
14:00:28 [wseltzer]
Meeting: MiniApp Virtual Meeting 2020
14:00:41 [wseltzer]
Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2020/07/miniapp-virtual-meeting/agenda.html#schedule
14:00:57 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make minutes v2
14:00:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html wseltzer
14:01:11 [Roy]
... it will be in parallel platform
14:01:35 [sangwhan]
s/Muti-OS/Multi-OS/
14:01:47 [xfq]
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14:02:08 [Roy]
... there are existing WG to have those work in
14:02:20 [xfq]
https://w3ctag.github.io/design-principles/#extend-manifests
14:02:43 [Roy]
... such as manifest, we'd like to less manifest instead of lot of manifest
14:03:23 [Roy]
... we don't like to have a new URI scheme
14:03:47 [Roy]
... also the lifecycle in store in Web App
14:04:06 [wseltzer]
q?
14:04:13 [wseltzer]
present+ Wendy_Seltzer_W3C
14:04:20 [Roy]
... package, there is an existing set of work around web packaging
14:04:29 [xfq_]
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14:04:37 [Roy]
... from the original Web Packaging specification
14:05:06 [Roy]
... one thing want to highlight is the safety
14:05:49 [Roy]
... security web is important, we could take advantage from our work
14:06:37 [dom]
[there is a dedicated Usession on RI scheme scheduled for tomorrow fwiw]
14:07:12 [wseltzer]
q?
14:07:27 [Yves]
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14:07:32 [Roy]
sangwhan: @@
14:07:33 [chunming]
q+
14:07:33 [dom]
[said otherwise, a new uri scheme for browser content requires forking the security model to adapt to a different origin model]
14:08:34 [dom]
q+ to surface possible competing needs in mini app standardization vs mini app / web convergence
14:08:36 [Roy]
Dan: good to hear promote this technical, they need take advantage from web platform
14:08:45 [wseltzer]
ack ralph
14:09:19 [Roy]
Ralph: W3C staff, I wonder in tomorrow's URI session, you may give more URI
14:09:25 [angel_]
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14:09:37 [angel_]
q+
14:09:47 [chunming]
q-
14:09:53 [Roy]
... do you have any suggestions to hook in existing one
14:10:24 [Yves]
XML catalogs provides an answer that resolution can be local for http URLs
14:10:24 [Roy]
... I see there are use cases, Not sure that combination help the miniapp
14:10:30 [wseltzer]
ack dom
14:10:30 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to surface possible competing needs in mini app standardization vs mini app / web convergence
14:10:33 [dka_]
Also to be clear: when I'm talking about security, TLS (https) is also a key element.
14:10:54 [sangwhan]
Re: Ralph's question, we do have some concrete+potentially actionable feedback.
14:11:46 [Yves]
and more recently webpackage address alternative URL resolution
14:12:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq_
14:13:04 [xfq_]
present+ Wendy_Seltzer_W3C
14:13:07 [Roy]
Dom: want to surface somethings, miniapp need standardised with existing ecosystems, we need consideration which should be address in long or short term to converge, this need finding redline to converge
14:13:10 [xfq_]
Chair: Wendy_Seltzer_W3C
14:13:15 [wseltzer]
q?
14:14:04 [wseltzer]
ack angel
14:14:27 [Roy]
angel: I'd like to thank TAG to review it and give us feedback
14:14:52 [wanming]
wanming has joined #Miniapp
14:15:00 [zhoudan]
q+
14:15:18 [xfq_]
present+ Yongqing_Dong_Xiaomi
14:15:24 [wseltzer]
wseltzer: Dom's comments help us think about prioritization, it's most important to find consensus standards where common technology is necessary for interoperability
14:16:23 [chunming]
q?
14:16:41 [wseltzer]
ack next
14:16:46 [Roy]
angel: all of those purpose comes from the real market, and the thing is how we push those things forward
14:17:38 [chunming]
q+
14:17:53 [Vagner_Br]
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14:18:19 [Roy]
chunming: Chunming from W3C, thanks for review from TAG
14:19:08 [wseltzer]
zakim, close queue
14:19:08 [Zakim]
ok, wseltzer, the speaker queue is closed
14:19:10 [wseltzer]
ack chun
14:19:26 [Yongjing_Zhang]
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14:19:38 [Roy]
... miniapp also in developing, just like the web developed in the past, we want to encourage the miniapp standard in a long term
14:20:46 [wseltzer]
[break, 5 minutes]
14:20:48 [Roy]
Wendy: 5 mins break
14:20:52 [xfq_]
agenda?
14:21:58 [chunming]
s/... miniapp also/... thanks TAG for review miniapp proposals. I would like to mention that, the web today changed a lot if compared with 30 years ago, miniapp is also/
14:22:54 [xfq_]
zakim, close this item
14:22:54 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
14:22:55 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:22:55 [Zakim]
1. Break [from wseltzer]
14:23:05 [dka_]
+1 to Dom's comments by the way - we don't have to solve all of these issues immediatey. But we do need to get some things on the right track. Manifest file could be the best place to start in my view.
14:23:09 [xfq]
zakim, take up next item
14:23:09 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Break" taken up [from wseltzer]
14:23:57 [xfq]
present+ Qing_An_Alibaba
14:25:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq
14:25:29 [zhoudan_]
zhoudan_ has joined #miniapp
14:25:29 [wseltzer]
zakim, take up agendum 2
14:25:30 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "MiniApp Manifest & Packaging" taken up [from wseltzer]
14:25:41 [chunming]
s/in a long term/in a long term vision, to give suggestions of the future miniapp, as a part of web technology. This will introduce more space to find solutions./
14:26:45 [Roy]
Wendy: Zhang yongjing will give us the manifest and packaging introduction
14:27:07 [wseltzer]
zakim, reopen queue
14:27:07 [Zakim]
ok, wseltzer, the speaker queue is open
14:27:28 [Roy]
yongjing: we do receive feedback from TAG
14:27:52 [Roy]
... miniapp package can package in zip file
14:28:06 [wanming]
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14:28:17 [Roy]
... big different with traditional web package
14:28:17 [xfq_]
MiniApp Package explainer -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/blob/gh-pages/specs/packaging/docs/explainer.md
14:28:25 [Roy]
... more like a native app
14:28:48 [slightlyoff]
I'm unclear on the difference between "web resources" and "resources needed to run the app"
14:28:51 [xfq_]
MiniApp Manifest explainer -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/blob/gh-pages/specs/manifest/docs/explainer.md
14:28:52 [Roy]
... gives more metadata
14:29:55 [Roy]
... TAG's feedback make sense, we also did gap analysis, and define some unique requirements from miniapp
14:30:36 [xfq_]
present+ Vagner_Diniz
14:30:53 [Roy]
... and we need do extension for Web platform or a separate specification, that will be a long term discussion
14:31:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq
14:31:23 [Roy]
... we open to exchange ideas with Web manifest WG
14:32:05 [dom]
q+ to encourage sharing with webappmanifest (see usage of PWA in stores), comment on intersection with permissions policy
14:32:06 [Roy]
... my video have explained more detail about gaps
14:32:09 [plh]
q+
14:32:13 [wseltzer]
ack next
14:32:14 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to encourage sharing with webappmanifest (see usage of PWA in stores), comment on intersection with permissions policy
14:33:33 [Roy]
Dom: it will be good to share with web app manifest
14:34:36 [Yongjing_Zhang]
q
14:34:37 [xfq_]
Define a permission model? -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/issues/117
14:34:37 [Roy]
... a lot of coverage can happens on this one
14:35:31 [Roy]
yongjing: one to add, current work on miniapp CG, not mature enough, we need more time on permission which Dom mentioned
14:35:47 [wseltzer]
ack next
14:35:53 [Roy]
... people may identify more permission soon or later
14:36:06 [slightlyoff]
there has also been discussion about enumerating permissions from the list Dom raised within Web App Manifests, and I'd personally be happy to see them added there as "high water mark" permissions
14:36:20 [plh]
--> https://w3c.github.io/manifest-app-info/ Web App Manifest - Application Information
14:37:18 [Roy]
PLH: the manifest have already talked in Web app, it's OK to extension the manifest you want
14:37:32 [xfq_]
https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/pull/119
14:37:44 [Roy]
... I made the pull request days ago
14:37:56 [Yongjing_Zhang]
q
14:38:05 [wanming]
wanming has joined #Miniapp
14:38:19 [Yongjing_Zhang]
q+
14:38:25 [xiaoqian]
q+ Yongjing_Zhang
14:38:40 [sangwhan]
Re: PLH's comments about WebIDL in the manifest, +1 - manifest should be usable by non-browsers
14:38:42 [wseltzer]
ack next
14:38:49 [Roy]
... it would be nice if you move it to right place
14:39:28 [wseltzer]
q?
14:39:39 [Roy]
yongjing: that's a good input, it would encourage more collaboration
14:40:00 [Yongjing_Zhang]
q+
14:40:01 [xfq_]
q+
14:40:02 [slightlyoff]
from Google's perspective, we'd like to see convergence of packaging and manifest formats
14:40:13 [slightlyoff]
(in line with the TAG's recommendations)
14:40:43 [Roy]
Wendy: From W3C side, it is a very good extension for existing manifest, develop could take advantage from this.
14:40:55 [Roy]
... PLH work on integrating
14:40:58 [Yves]
note that it goes both ways, requirements from mini-apps should be takken into account in the base spec (Manifest in that case)
14:41:25 [Roy]
yongjing: want more comments from package side
14:42:09 [dom]
[I don't know if it matters, but I see a comparison with LPF, but not ePub OCF]
14:42:15 [slightlyoff]
q+
14:42:19 [wseltzer]
ack Y
14:42:29 [wseltzer]
ack ack xfq_
14:42:37 [Roy]
... don't have a good solution to combine two package together, hope some inputs on this
14:42:40 [dom]
ack xfq_
14:43:24 [Roy]
fuqiao: you mentioned digital signature, more information on this?
14:43:46 [tidoust]
[I note that I don't understand the "Web dependency" column in this comparison table. That seems to be more a "Origin-based" column, so back to the security question]
14:43:59 [slightlyoff]
+1 to that, tidoust
14:44:03 [Roy]
yongjing: signature feature in discussion
14:44:50 [dom]
[the piece about signing a ZIP package with Web content might be standardizable in abstraction of miniapps; sharing Web content as ZIP sounds like a useful thing (separately from WPACK)]
14:45:11 [Roy]
... signature machnism is different from existing package technologies
14:45:53 [sangwhan]
I would like to note that addressing subresources in ZIP/DEFLATE can be very inefficient.
14:45:55 [slightlyoff]
I should note that it's possible to add an overall signature to the `signatures` section of a web package: https://wicg.github.io/webpackage/draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges.html#name-parsing-the-signatures-sect
14:45:59 [Roy]
fuqiao: want to know the is the css style same with web or there are some gaps
14:46:05 [zhoudan_]
q+
14:46:08 [wseltzer]
ack next
14:46:14 [Roy]
yongjing: not start to discuss this in CG yet
14:47:13 [xiaoqian]
q+
14:47:14 [Roy]
Alex: the detail of manifest@@
14:47:29 [xiaoqian]
qq+
14:47:30 [Yongjing_Zhang]
q+
14:47:47 [wseltzer]
ack next
14:47:49 [Zakim]
xiaoqian, you wanted to react to slightlyoff
14:47:51 [dka_]
Unfortunately I am going to have to drop but I would like to +1 Alex's comments on web packaging.
14:47:54 [Yves]
ZIP has the disadvantage to have the catalog at the end, removing the opportunity of early processing (ie: while not completely downloaded), but apprently it is not an issue right now
14:47:58 [xfq_]
ack xi
14:48:03 [sangwhan]
Also not sure why the "format" (RFC7049) is inadequate for miniapps - it's a royalty free, open IETF standard that has multiple implementations for different languages/platforms
14:48:36 [wseltzer]
q?
14:48:38 [Roy]
xiaoqian: you mentioned there is a manifest proposal in WICG, is there any timeline?
14:48:47 [dka_]
However it's good to hear about the momentum regarding the manifest file. I think this is a great first step.
14:48:48 [wseltzer]
ack next
14:48:54 [xiaoqian]
q-
14:48:54 [Roy]
Alex: I could provide more detail in IRC
14:49:51 [Roy]
zhoudan: want to answer previous question, how miniapp and web combine, it show in my slide 17
14:50:27 [Roy]
... there is a API to reach different miniapp
14:51:09 [slightlyoff]
Web Bundles (multiple resources) are being developed in Chromium, with stautus tracked here: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5377722941440000
14:51:11 [Roy]
... question for Dan in TAG feedback, what is the @@@
14:51:18 [dom]
-> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570 URI Template (I assume)
14:51:20 [xfq_]
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570
14:51:24 [wseltzer]
s/@@@/Templated URL/
14:51:36 [plh]
slide 17 in https://www.w3.org/2020/07/miniapp-virtual-meeting/slides/MiniApp-URI-Scheme.pdf
14:51:52 [wseltzer]
q?
14:51:55 [Roy]
... you mentioned you want more code demos, is that from develop side or browser
14:52:05 [xfq_]
Discussion of the feasibility of using HTTPs as MiniApp URI scheme -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/issues/34
14:52:15 [dom]
https://www.w3.org/2020/07/miniapp-virtual-meeting/slides/MiniApp-URI-Scheme.pdf#page=17
14:52:15 [Yves]
template URI was more in response of one aspect of the mini app url scheme that was using the version as a way to construct an http url, but it might not even be needed
14:53:08 [wseltzer]
q?
14:53:11 [wseltzer]
ack Y
14:53:20 [dom]
q+
14:53:20 [slightlyoff]
Yongjing_Zhang: I can try to answer that
14:53:36 [wseltzer]
q+ slightlyoff
14:53:37 [Roy]
Yongjing: comments welcome for package @@
14:53:42 [wseltzer]
ack dom
14:54:44 [wseltzer]
ack next
14:55:29 [Roy]
Alex: in Web app format, use the URI to show, and security also included in it
14:55:54 [wseltzer]
... allows distribution from different origin from the supplier
14:56:32 [wseltzer]
zakim, close queue
14:56:32 [Zakim]
ok, wseltzer, the speaker queue is closed
14:56:38 [Roy]
Yongjing: that's the different between with miniapp and webpage
14:57:07 [Roy]
... miniapp doesn't store the html
14:57:19 [Roy]
... we may need more discussion
14:57:45 [Roy]
Alex: I realized those may have huge different
14:58:02 [wseltzer]
zakim, take up next agendum
14:58:02 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Break" taken up [from wseltzer]
14:58:02 [Roy]
Wendy: next topic will be miniapp lifecycle
14:58:28 [xfq_]
MiniApp Lifecycle -> https://w3c.github.io/miniapp/specs/lifecycle/
14:58:31 [Roy]
anqing: I will give a brief introduction
14:58:44 [xfq_]
explainer -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/blob/gh-pages/specs/lifecycle/docs/explainer.md
14:58:44 [wseltzer]
s/Break/MiniApp Lifecycle/
14:59:01 [Roy]
... miniapp consist by two layer
14:59:19 [xfq_]
agenda?
14:59:30 [wseltzer]
zakim, drop agendum 1
14:59:30 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Break, dropped
14:59:30 [Roy]
... there are some overlap with W3C lifecycle
15:00:07 [xfq_]
https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/blob/gh-pages/docs/FAQ.md#5-is-it-possible-to-harmonize-page-lifecycle-page-visibility-service-worker-lifecycle-and-miniapp-lifecycle-specifications-if-so-how
15:00:43 [slightlyoff]
hrm, we already have a longstanding `onload` event
15:00:54 [Roy]
... as I mentioned in slides, page level will have difference
15:01:11 [slightlyoff]
PWAs use the page lifecycle + the serviceworker lifecycle
15:01:31 [slightlyoff]
e.g.: https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/primers/service-workers/lifecycle
15:01:42 [wseltzer]
q?
15:02:08 [Roy]
... in W3C, we want to harmonise the lifecycle
15:02:10 [angel]
angel has joined #miniapp
15:02:12 [wseltzer]
ack Ralph
15:03:05 [slightlyoff]
you can think of the ServiceWorker lifecycle as the application installation and iteration phases, with the page lifecycle events (onload, visibility change events, hide/show events) as view-level events
15:03:10 [Yongjing_Zhang]
q+
15:03:23 [slightlyoff]
(apologies, I need to drop off the call but will lurk here to answer questions)
15:03:25 [Roy]
Ralph: I may missed some points in slides, would you@@@
15:03:29 [wanming]
wanming has joined #Miniapp
15:03:30 [chunming]
q?
15:03:39 [angel]
q+ to ask the rec plan of lifecycle in WICG
15:04:17 [wseltzer]
ack next
15:04:35 [Yongjing_Zhang]
regarding why RFC7049/CBOR is not used for miniapps, it's simply a choice of the ecosystem - all the current miniapp implementations are ZIP-based as far as I know. Since the main purpose of miniapp package is to archive files of the app. ZIP is straightforward while CBOR is not.
15:05:06 [Roy]
anqing: it could work offline
15:05:48 [wseltzer]
ack next
15:05:49 [Zakim]
angel, you wanted to ask the rec plan of lifecycle in WICG
15:05:56 [xiaoqian]
xiaoqian has joined #miniapp
15:06:02 [slightlyoff]
we picked something other than Zip for web packaging because of the architecture (and performance) issues around the Central Directory entry being located at the end of the (physical) file or stream
15:06:07 [Roy]
yongjing: internet connection may also a different way compared with web
15:06:22 [slightlyoff]
this means we can't efficiently use Zip on web
15:06:36 [Roy]
angel: is there any lifecycle plan in WICG?
15:06:53 [Roy]
... is there any CG active
15:07:00 [angel]
s/any lifecycle/any Rec plan for lifecycle
15:07:06 [xiaoqian]
q+
15:07:24 [angel]
s/is there any CG active/is it worth the efforts to set up a group for it?
15:07:24 [Roy]
wendy: that will be a homework for us
15:07:24 [xfq_]
https://github.com/WICG/page-lifecycle
15:08:12 [Roy]
xiaoqian: @@@
15:08:32 [xfq_]
Modifications to the HTML Standard -> https://wicg.github.io/page-lifecycle/#mod
15:08:38 [chunming]
q+
15:08:48 [wseltzer]
ack chun
15:09:06 [wseltzer]
ack xiaoqian
15:09:24 [wseltzer]
s/@@@/when we last reviewed, suggestion was to merge back with HTML/
15:09:53 [Roy]
chunming: miniapp will pre load some resources, it will has some lifecycle issues
15:10:23 [MikeSmith]
q+ to comment about costs related to HTML spec integration
15:10:30 [Roy]
... servers worker also has same issue, is there any difference?
15:10:45 [xfq_]
s/servers/service/
15:11:08 [Roy]
anqing: if you look at pre download, it doesn't have much differece
15:11:51 [Roy]
... I think it similar with service worker
15:12:21 [chunming]
s/... I think it similar/... I think it is similar/
15:12:25 [wseltzer]
q?
15:12:36 [wseltzer]
ack mike
15:12:36 [Zakim]
MikeSmith, you wanted to comment about costs related to HTML spec integration
15:12:42 [Roy]
... but miniapp will use catch and open it quickly
15:13:45 [MikeSmith]
q-
15:13:54 [plh]
q+
15:14:10 [wseltzer]
ack plh
15:14:12 [wseltzer]
q+ MikeSmith
15:14:17 [hober]
q+
15:14:43 [xfq_]
present+ Yaoming_Liu_Huawei
15:15:21 [wseltzer]
ack m
15:15:27 [Roy]
PLH: is there any changllenge when you develop miniapp
15:17:05 [wseltzer]
PLH: encourage people to raise issues directly in WHATWG repos, in our cooperation with WHATWG
15:17:34 [Roy]
Mike: we need rise those issues, we need lots of people engage in those work with costing lots of time, we could have some solution plan first
15:18:28 [wseltzer]
ack next
15:19:26 [MikeSmith]
good point from Tess 👍
15:20:06 [Roy]
Theresa: agree with Mike, feel free to reach out us when you have any difficulties
15:20:24 [wseltzer]
q?
15:20:30 [angel]
q+
15:20:35 [Roy]
Wendy: good to have this friendly work environment
15:20:39 [wseltzer]
ack angel
15:21:22 [wseltzer]
q+
15:21:28 [Roy]
angel: there is a interactive issue @@
15:22:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq_
15:22:44 [Roy]
Wendy: I think we would like to hear some new features in HTML, that will promote consistent for developer
15:22:49 [plh]
the short answer is yes Angel. working on the differences of the overall lifecycle before diving into specific spec issues
15:23:21 [Roy]
... we could do some unique features to extension the HTML
15:23:37 [wseltzer]
q?
15:23:48 [wseltzer]
q-
15:24:22 [angel]
s/there is a interactive issue @@/for interoperability among MiniApp platforms, I think this can be discussed in W3C, might not need to bother WHATWG; for the browser involving part, it make sense to bring the discussion to WHATWG
15:24:55 [Roy]
PLH: want to say working on the differences of the overall lifecycle is a good thing, as least we have some primary work
15:25:31 [Roy]
... we could define the gap and then to decide what feature we want to add
15:25:36 [xfq_]
agenda?
15:25:57 [Roy]
Wendy: thanks for everyone to share your opinions
15:26:16 [Roy]
... thanks Beihang team prepare this meeting
15:26:22 [angel]
s/there is a interactive issue @@/for lifecycle specific interoperability among MiniApp platforms, I think this can be discussed in W3C, might not need to bother WHATWG; for the browser involving part, it make sense to bring the discussion to WHATWG
15:26:34 [Roy]
... I want to review tomorrow's topics
15:27:20 [Roy]
... hope we could have a detail future plan
15:27:40 [Roy]
... to resolve those specific issues
15:27:57 [wseltzer]
q?
15:28:14 [Roy]
... and please think about what questions you want to realized from this meeting?
15:28:21 [Roy]
... any question?
15:28:50 [Roy]
... hope participants could watch the pre-recordings before next meeting
15:28:57 [Roy]
... thanks everyone
15:29:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq_
15:32:16 [Ralph]
zakim, list attendees
15:32:16 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Angel, Ming_Zu, Yinli_Chen, Canfeng_Chen, Han, Tenyuan_Zhang, Qing_An, Xiaoqian, Fuqiao, Xueyuan, Dan, Appelquist, Fuqiao_Xue_W3C,
15:32:19 [Zakim]
... Qiang_Jia_China_Mobile, Xueyuan_Jia_W3C, Dan_Zhou_Baidu, Wendy_Seltzer_W3C, Yinli_Chen_Xiaomi, Zhenjie_Li_W3C, Chuangjie_Luo_Vivo, Jiaying_Liang_W3C, Alexandra_Lacourba_W3C,
15:32:19 [Zakim]
... Xiaoqian_Wu_W3C, Philippe_Le_Hégaret_W3C, Wanming_Lin_Intel, Dominique_Hazaël-Massieux_W3C, Ralph_Swick_(W3C), Ivan_Herman_W3C, Canfeng_Chen_Xiaomi, Mike_Smith_W3C,
15:32:23 [Zakim]
... Ming_Zu_Baidu, Theresa_Apple, Chunming_Hu_W3C, Martin_Alvarez_Espinar_Fundacion_CTIC, Qing_An_Alibaba, plh, Sangwhan_Moon, Yongjing_Zhang_Huawei, Theresa_O'Connor_Apple/TAG,
15:32:23 [Zakim]
... Keith_Gu_Google, Kazuyuki_Ashimura_W3C, Vitaliy_Zasadnyy_Facebook, Nicole_Yu_Alipay, Kaz_Ashimura-W3C, Alex_Russell_Google, François_Daoust_W3C, Thomas_Steiner_Google,
15:32:28 [Zakim]
... Yves_Lafon_W3C, Jiaxun_Wei_Baidu, Tatsuya_Igarashi_Sony, Nathan_Schloss_Facebook, Roy_Ran_W3C, Shuo_Wang_Baidu, Yongqing_Dong_Xiaomi, Vagner_Diniz, Yves, Yaoming_Liu_Huawei
15:44:58 [angel]
rrsagent, make log public
15:48:11 [plh]
plh has left #miniapp
17:32:22 [wanming]
wanming has joined #Miniapp