13:13:07 RRSAgent has joined #miniapp 13:13:07 logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-irc 13:16:25 wseltzer_screen has joined #miniapp 13:22:51 dka_ has joined #miniapp 13:22:58 present+ Dan Appelquist 13:23:38 wanming2 has joined #Miniapp 13:23:44 present+ Fuqiao_Xue_W3C, Qiang_Jia_China_Mobile 13:24:01 present+ Xueyuan_Jia_W3C 13:24:07 present+ Dan_Zhou_Baidu 13:24:34 present+ Wendy_Seltzer_W3C 13:24:45 present+ Yinli_Chen_Xiaomi 13:24:52 Yinli_Chen has joined #miniapp 13:24:59 present? 13:25:14 zhenjie_ has joined #miniapp 13:25:43 xiaoqian has joined #miniapp 13:26:22 present+ Zhenjie_Li_W3C 13:26:58 present+ Chuangjie_Luo_Vivo 13:27:12 Angel has joined #Miniapp 13:27:12 zhoudan has joined #miniapp 13:27:13 present+ Jiaying_Liang_W3C 13:27:38 present+ Alexandra_Lacourba_W3C 13:27:49 present+ Xiaoqian_Wu_W3C 13:27:50 hober has joined #miniapp 13:27:52 present+ Philippe_Le_Hégaret_W3C 13:27:59 present+ Angel 13:28:00 present+ Wanming_Lin_Intel 13:29:10 present+ Dominique_Hazaël-Massieux_W3C 13:29:22 present+ Ralph_Swick_(W3C) 13:29:58 present+ Ivan_Herman_W3C 13:30:11 present+ Canfeng_Chen_Xiaomi 13:30:32 present+ Mike_Smith_W3C 13:30:38 present+ Ming_Zu_Baidu 13:31:16 present+ Theresa_Apple 13:31:26 present+ Chunming_Hu_W3C 13:31:43 s/Theresa_Apple/Theresa_O_Connor_(Apple) 13:32:12 s/O_Connor/O'Connor/ 13:32:30 jiaqiang has joined #miniapp 13:32:41 Qing_An has joined #miniapp 13:32:48 present+ Martin_Alvarez_Espinar_Fundacion_CTIC 13:32:52 present+ Qiang_Jia_China_Mobile 13:33:04 present+ Qing_An_Alibaba 13:33:06 zakim, who is here 13:33:06 xfq, you need to end that query with '?' 13:33:09 zakim, who is here? 13:33:09 Present: Angel, Ming_Zu, Yinli_Chen, Canfeng_Chen, Han, Tenyuan_Zhang, Qing_An, Xiaoqian, Fuqiao, Xueyuan, Dan, Appelquist, Fuqiao_Xue_W3C, Qiang_Jia_China_Mobile, Xueyuan_Jia_W3C, 13:33:12 ... Dan_Zhou_Baidu, Wendy_Seltzer_W3C, Yinli_Chen_Xiaomi, Zhenjie_Li_W3C, Chuangjie_Luo_Vivo, Jiaying_Liang_W3C, Alexandra_Lacourba_W3C, Xiaoqian_Wu_W3C, Philippe_Le_Hégaret_W3C, 13:33:12 ... Wanming_Lin_Intel, Dominique_Hazaël-Massieux_W3C, Ralph_Swick_(W3C), Ivan_Herman_W3C, Canfeng_Chen_Xiaomi, Mike_Smith_W3C, Ming_Zu_Baidu, Theresa_Apple, Chunming_Hu_W3C, 13:33:12 ... Martin_Alvarez_Espinar_Fundacion_CTIC, Qing_An_Alibaba 13:33:16 On IRC I see Qing_An, jiaqiang, hober, zhoudan, Angel, xiaoqian, zhenjie_, Yinli_Chen, wanming2, dka_, wseltzer_screen, RRSAgent, plh, xfq, Ralph, dom, wseltzer, xueyuan, 13:33:16 ... MikeSmith, Zakim, ella, cwilso, slightlyoff, sangwhan, dbaron, Jiaying 13:33:26 present+ 13:33:33 present+ Sangwhan_Moon 13:33:38 chunming has joined #miniapp 13:33:51 tidoust has joined #miniapp 13:33:59 present+ Yongjing_Zhang_Huawei 13:34:30 present+ Qing_An 13:34:37 present+ Theresa_O'Connor_Apple/TAG 13:34:46 present- Theresa_Apple 13:34:47 n8s has joined #miniapp 13:36:14 present+ Keith_Gu_Google 13:36:28 present+ Kazuyuki_Ashimura_W3C 13:36:50 present+ Vitaliy_Zasadnyy_Facebook 13:36:51 scribe: xiaoqian 13:37:11 present+ Nicole_Yu_Alipay 13:37:32 weiler has joined #miniapp 13:37:39 wseltzer: please join IRC for our speaker queue 13:37:42 ivan has joined #miniapp 13:37:49 ... thank you everyone to make this meeting possible 13:38:13 kaz has joined #miniapp 13:38:32 ... you can find the agenda on the website 13:38:43 ... hope you have reviewed the material beforehand 13:38:55 present+ Kaz_Ashimura-W3C 13:39:14 tomayac3 has joined #miniapp 13:39:15 ... I'm Wendy Seltzer, W3C Strategy Lead 13:39:39 ... we are looking into new technologies and how can they fit into the Web 13:40:06 ... in W3C we work on consensus by standards 13:40:24 ... it's not about finding the perfect 13:40:55 present+ Alex_Russell_Google 13:40:58 ... can we do something global and for the whole platform 13:41:09 present+ François_Daoust_W3C 13:41:26 present+ Thomas_Steiner_Google 13:41:29 ... please join the discussion and contribute your ideas 13:41:36 ... share understanding 13:41:42 present+ Alex_Russell_Google 13:41:47 present+ Yves_Lafon_W3C 13:41:56 ... find opportunity for dialogs to reach concensus 13:42:06 present+ Jiaxun_Wei_Baidu 13:42:20 ... hope by the end of tomorrow we can have concrete plan to move to the next step 13:42:40 ... Yinli Chen will lead us in the MiniApp Overview discussion 13:43:14 Yinli: this is Yinli from Xiaomi, I'm going to talk to you in Chinese 13:43:47 q? 13:43:54 q? 13:43:57 q+ 13:44:00 ... in the pre-recording video, I shared with you what's MiniApp and how miniApp works 13:44:18 ack next 13:44:23 Wendy: thank you for preparing the material, any questions? 13:44:49 xfq: I noticed that miniapp communicate with other apps is mentioned in the video 13:44:57 ... what's the plan on this area? 13:45:18 igarashi has joined #miniapp 13:45:36 q+ to ask mini-apps market convergence, mini-app outside of China, browser <-> mini app interactions 13:45:38 Yinli: I'm going to answer the question from the prospective of QuickApp 13:46:11 ... in QuickApp there is a high-level API for a communication channel 13:46:23 ... the package is send through this channel 13:46:28 q? 13:46:36 ack next 13:46:37 dom, you wanted to ask mini-apps market convergence, mini-app outside of China, browser <-> mini app interactions 13:46:57 dom: in turns of the overview of MiniApp 13:47:16 ... want to get some clarification where do miniapp fit into the overall platform 13:47:39 ... the CG is looking to conversion of the MiniApp platform in China 13:47:54 ... how many users will be covered by these platforms? 13:48:07 ... how broadly is it this used outside China? 13:48:31 igarashi_ has joined #miniapp 13:48:45 ... how can it be in and out the Web Platform? 13:48:47 q? 13:49:09 present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi_Sony 13:49:34 present+ Nathan_Schloss_Facebook 13:49:36 Angel: I would like to explain some observation for my own 13:49:40 Roy has joined #miniapp 13:49:52 scribe: Roy 13:49:53 ... we are seeing MiniApp platforms in Asia 13:49:58 ... f.ex., Line 13:49:59 present+ Roy_Ran_W3C 13:50:32 ... we are seeing similar hybret apps with MiniApp 13:50:38 q? 13:51:03 s/hybret/hybrid/ 13:51:10 dom: the third Q is about how MiniApp browser pages? 13:51:23 s/browser/browse 13:51:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq 13:52:00 ... in URI proposal, there seems to be an expectation you can follow a link in and out the webpage 13:52:30 scribe+ Roy 13:52:47 q? 13:52:58 Angel: @@ 13:53:25 wendy: any other opening comments? 13:53:33 agenda? 13:53:36 Wendy: next will be the tag reveiw 13:53:48 agenda= 13:53:53 Dan: work for samsung 13:53:59 zakim, clear agenda 13:53:59 agenda cleared 13:54:02 ... in TAG in W3C 13:54:07 Topic: TAG review 13:54:37 agenda+ Break 13:54:43 agenda+ MiniApp Manifest & Packaging 13:54:50 agenda+ MiniApp Lifecycle 13:54:55 agenda+ Wrap up 13:55:32 TAG Review / Statement on MiniApp Specs -> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/blob/master/reviews/miniapps_feedback.md 13:55:36 ... I mentioned this in our feedback document, the border of eco 13:55:44 igarashi has joined #miniapp 13:55:58 s/@@/as for MiniApp and web pages, as far as I know, there is no miniapp running in browser conext yet in CHina, but the vision is to get MiniApp ubiquitous, and that's why MiniApp community came to W3C to make standards for it 13:56:03 present+ Shuo_Wang_Baidu 13:56:24 ... developers will be able to take advantage of the robust documentation available on the web platform, such as exists on MDN, we set this document for weeks from now 13:56:52 ... this document in reference to 3 TAG review requests 13:57:10 ... thank for being requested to review 13:57:19 igarashi_ has joined #miniapp 13:57:28 ... and thanks for going TAG process 13:57:39 present+ Ivan_Herman_W3C 13:57:40 ... we want to play a positive role 13:59:06 i|this is Yinli|Topic: MiniApp Overview 13:59:14 ... one web is muti-browser, Muti-OS and device 13:59:20 zuming has joined #miniapp 13:59:27 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/#tc Thematic Consistency 13:59:33 i|please join IRC|Topic: Welcome and Objectives 13:59:48 i|please join IRC|-> https://www.w3.org/2020/07/seltzer-miniapp-slides.pdf Introductory Slides 13:59:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:59:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html wseltzer 14:00:10 ... in TPAC last year, we should aim to converge with WebAPP, etc. 14:00:28 Meeting: MiniApp Virtual Meeting 2020 14:00:41 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2020/07/miniapp-virtual-meeting/agenda.html#schedule 14:00:57 rrsagent, make minutes v2 14:00:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html wseltzer 14:01:11 ... it will be in parallel platform 14:01:35 s/Muti-OS/Multi-OS/ 14:01:47 xfq has joined #miniapp 14:02:08 ... there are existing WG to have those work in 14:02:20 https://w3ctag.github.io/design-principles/#extend-manifests 14:02:43 ... such as manifest, we'd like to less manifest instead of lot of manifest 14:03:23 ... we don't like to have a new URI scheme 14:03:47 ... also the lifecycle in store in Web App 14:04:06 q? 14:04:13 present+ Wendy_Seltzer_W3C 14:04:20 ... package, there is an existing set of work around web packaging 14:04:29 xfq_ has joined #miniapp 14:04:37 ... from the original Web Packaging specification 14:05:06 ... one thing want to highlight is the safety 14:05:49 ... security web is important, we could take advantage from our work 14:06:37 [there is a dedicated Usession on RI scheme scheduled for tomorrow fwiw] 14:07:12 q? 14:07:27 Yves has joined #miniapp 14:07:32 sangwhan: @@ 14:07:33 q+ 14:07:33 [said otherwise, a new uri scheme for browser content requires forking the security model to adapt to a different origin model] 14:08:34 q+ to surface possible competing needs in mini app standardization vs mini app / web convergence 14:08:36 Dan: good to hear promote this technical, they need take advantage from web platform 14:08:45 ack ralph 14:09:19 Ralph: W3C staff, I wonder in tomorrow's URI session, you may give more URI 14:09:25 angel_ has joined #miniapp 14:09:37 q+ 14:09:47 q- 14:09:53 ... do you have any suggestions to hook in existing one 14:10:24 XML catalogs provides an answer that resolution can be local for http URLs 14:10:24 ... I see there are use cases, Not sure that combination help the miniapp 14:10:30 ack dom 14:10:30 dom, you wanted to surface possible competing needs in mini app standardization vs mini app / web convergence 14:10:33 Also to be clear: when I'm talking about security, TLS (https) is also a key element. 14:10:54 Re: Ralph's question, we do have some concrete+potentially actionable feedback. 14:11:46 and more recently webpackage address alternative URL resolution 14:12:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq_ 14:13:04 present+ Wendy_Seltzer_W3C 14:13:07 Dom: want to surface somethings, miniapp need standardised with existing ecosystems, we need consideration which should be address in long or short term to converge, this need finding redline to converge 14:13:10 Chair: Wendy_Seltzer_W3C 14:13:15 q? 14:14:04 ack angel 14:14:27 angel: I'd like to thank TAG to review it and give us feedback 14:14:52 wanming has joined #Miniapp 14:15:00 q+ 14:15:18 present+ Yongqing_Dong_Xiaomi 14:15:24 wseltzer: Dom's comments help us think about prioritization, it's most important to find consensus standards where common technology is necessary for interoperability 14:16:23 q? 14:16:41 ack next 14:16:46 angel: all of those purpose comes from the real market, and the thing is how we push those things forward 14:17:38 q+ 14:17:53 Vagner_Br has joined #miniapp 14:18:19 chunming: Chunming from W3C, thanks for review from TAG 14:19:08 zakim, close queue 14:19:08 ok, wseltzer, the speaker queue is closed 14:19:10 ack chun 14:19:26 Yongjing_Zhang has joined #miniapp 14:19:38 ... miniapp also in developing, just like the web developed in the past, we want to encourage the miniapp standard in a long term 14:20:46 [break, 5 minutes] 14:20:48 Wendy: 5 mins break 14:20:52 agenda? 14:21:58 s/... miniapp also/... thanks TAG for review miniapp proposals. I would like to mention that, the web today changed a lot if compared with 30 years ago, miniapp is also/ 14:22:54 zakim, close this item 14:22:54 agendum 2 closed 14:22:55 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 14:22:55 1. Break [from wseltzer] 14:23:05 +1 to Dom's comments by the way - we don't have to solve all of these issues immediatey. But we do need to get some things on the right track. Manifest file could be the best place to start in my view. 14:23:09 zakim, take up next item 14:23:09 agendum 1. "Break" taken up [from wseltzer] 14:23:57 present+ Qing_An_Alibaba 14:25:17 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq 14:25:29 zhoudan_ has joined #miniapp 14:25:29 zakim, take up agendum 2 14:25:30 agendum 2. "MiniApp Manifest & Packaging" taken up [from wseltzer] 14:25:41 s/in a long term/in a long term vision, to give suggestions of the future miniapp, as a part of web technology. This will introduce more space to find solutions./ 14:26:45 Wendy: Zhang yongjing will give us the manifest and packaging introduction 14:27:07 zakim, reopen queue 14:27:07 ok, wseltzer, the speaker queue is open 14:27:28 yongjing: we do receive feedback from TAG 14:27:52 ... miniapp package can package in zip file 14:28:06 wanming has joined #Miniapp 14:28:17 ... big different with traditional web package 14:28:17 MiniApp Package explainer -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/blob/gh-pages/specs/packaging/docs/explainer.md 14:28:25 ... more like a native app 14:28:48 I'm unclear on the difference between "web resources" and "resources needed to run the app" 14:28:51 MiniApp Manifest explainer -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/blob/gh-pages/specs/manifest/docs/explainer.md 14:28:52 ... gives more metadata 14:29:55 ... TAG's feedback make sense, we also did gap analysis, and define some unique requirements from miniapp 14:30:36 present+ Vagner_Diniz 14:30:53 ... and we need do extension for Web platform or a separate specification, that will be a long term discussion 14:31:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq 14:31:23 ... we open to exchange ideas with Web manifest WG 14:32:05 q+ to encourage sharing with webappmanifest (see usage of PWA in stores), comment on intersection with permissions policy 14:32:06 ... my video have explained more detail about gaps 14:32:09 q+ 14:32:13 ack next 14:32:14 dom, you wanted to encourage sharing with webappmanifest (see usage of PWA in stores), comment on intersection with permissions policy 14:33:33 Dom: it will be good to share with web app manifest 14:34:36 q 14:34:37 Define a permission model? -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/issues/117 14:34:37 ... a lot of coverage can happens on this one 14:35:31 yongjing: one to add, current work on miniapp CG, not mature enough, we need more time on permission which Dom mentioned 14:35:47 ack next 14:35:53 ... people may identify more permission soon or later 14:36:06 there has also been discussion about enumerating permissions from the list Dom raised within Web App Manifests, and I'd personally be happy to see them added there as "high water mark" permissions 14:36:20 --> https://w3c.github.io/manifest-app-info/ Web App Manifest - Application Information 14:37:18 PLH: the manifest have already talked in Web app, it's OK to extension the manifest you want 14:37:32 https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/pull/119 14:37:44 ... I made the pull request days ago 14:37:56 q 14:38:05 wanming has joined #Miniapp 14:38:19 q+ 14:38:25 q+ Yongjing_Zhang 14:38:40 Re: PLH's comments about WebIDL in the manifest, +1 - manifest should be usable by non-browsers 14:38:42 ack next 14:38:49 ... it would be nice if you move it to right place 14:39:28 q? 14:39:39 yongjing: that's a good input, it would encourage more collaboration 14:40:00 q+ 14:40:01 q+ 14:40:02 from Google's perspective, we'd like to see convergence of packaging and manifest formats 14:40:13 (in line with the TAG's recommendations) 14:40:43 Wendy: From W3C side, it is a very good extension for existing manifest, develop could take advantage from this. 14:40:55 ... PLH work on integrating 14:40:58 note that it goes both ways, requirements from mini-apps should be takken into account in the base spec (Manifest in that case) 14:41:25 yongjing: want more comments from package side 14:42:09 [I don't know if it matters, but I see a comparison with LPF, but not ePub OCF] 14:42:15 q+ 14:42:19 ack Y 14:42:29 ack ack xfq_ 14:42:37 ... don't have a good solution to combine two package together, hope some inputs on this 14:42:40 ack xfq_ 14:43:24 fuqiao: you mentioned digital signature, more information on this? 14:43:46 [I note that I don't understand the "Web dependency" column in this comparison table. That seems to be more a "Origin-based" column, so back to the security question] 14:43:59 +1 to that, tidoust 14:44:03 yongjing: signature feature in discussion 14:44:50 [the piece about signing a ZIP package with Web content might be standardizable in abstraction of miniapps; sharing Web content as ZIP sounds like a useful thing (separately from WPACK)] 14:45:11 ... signature machnism is different from existing package technologies 14:45:53 I would like to note that addressing subresources in ZIP/DEFLATE can be very inefficient. 14:45:55 I should note that it's possible to add an overall signature to the `signatures` section of a web package: https://wicg.github.io/webpackage/draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges.html#name-parsing-the-signatures-sect 14:45:59 fuqiao: want to know the is the css style same with web or there are some gaps 14:46:05 q+ 14:46:08 ack next 14:46:14 yongjing: not start to discuss this in CG yet 14:47:13 q+ 14:47:14 Alex: the detail of manifest@@ 14:47:29 qq+ 14:47:30 q+ 14:47:47 ack next 14:47:49 xiaoqian, you wanted to react to slightlyoff 14:47:51 Unfortunately I am going to have to drop but I would like to +1 Alex's comments on web packaging. 14:47:54 ZIP has the disadvantage to have the catalog at the end, removing the opportunity of early processing (ie: while not completely downloaded), but apprently it is not an issue right now 14:47:58 ack xi 14:48:03 Also not sure why the "format" (RFC7049) is inadequate for miniapps - it's a royalty free, open IETF standard that has multiple implementations for different languages/platforms 14:48:36 q? 14:48:38 xiaoqian: you mentioned there is a manifest proposal in WICG, is there any timeline? 14:48:47 However it's good to hear about the momentum regarding the manifest file. I think this is a great first step. 14:48:48 ack next 14:48:54 q- 14:48:54 Alex: I could provide more detail in IRC 14:49:51 zhoudan: want to answer previous question, how miniapp and web combine, it show in my slide 17 14:50:27 ... there is a API to reach different miniapp 14:51:09 Web Bundles (multiple resources) are being developed in Chromium, with stautus tracked here: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5377722941440000 14:51:11 ... question for Dan in TAG feedback, what is the @@@ 14:51:18 -> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570 URI Template (I assume) 14:51:20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570 14:51:24 s/@@@/Templated URL/ 14:51:36 slide 17 in https://www.w3.org/2020/07/miniapp-virtual-meeting/slides/MiniApp-URI-Scheme.pdf 14:51:52 q? 14:51:55 ... you mentioned you want more code demos, is that from develop side or browser 14:52:05 Discussion of the feasibility of using HTTPs as MiniApp URI scheme -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/issues/34 14:52:15 https://www.w3.org/2020/07/miniapp-virtual-meeting/slides/MiniApp-URI-Scheme.pdf#page=17 14:52:15 template URI was more in response of one aspect of the mini app url scheme that was using the version as a way to construct an http url, but it might not even be needed 14:53:08 q? 14:53:11 ack Y 14:53:20 q+ 14:53:20 Yongjing_Zhang: I can try to answer that 14:53:36 q+ slightlyoff 14:53:37 Yongjing: comments welcome for package @@ 14:53:42 ack dom 14:54:44 ack next 14:55:29 Alex: in Web app format, use the URI to show, and security also included in it 14:55:54 ... allows distribution from different origin from the supplier 14:56:32 zakim, close queue 14:56:32 ok, wseltzer, the speaker queue is closed 14:56:38 Yongjing: that's the different between with miniapp and webpage 14:57:07 ... miniapp doesn't store the html 14:57:19 ... we may need more discussion 14:57:45 Alex: I realized those may have huge different 14:58:02 zakim, take up next agendum 14:58:02 agendum 1. "Break" taken up [from wseltzer] 14:58:02 Wendy: next topic will be miniapp lifecycle 14:58:28 MiniApp Lifecycle -> https://w3c.github.io/miniapp/specs/lifecycle/ 14:58:31 anqing: I will give a brief introduction 14:58:44 explainer -> https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/blob/gh-pages/specs/lifecycle/docs/explainer.md 14:58:44 s/Break/MiniApp Lifecycle/ 14:59:01 ... miniapp consist by two layer 14:59:19 agenda? 14:59:30 zakim, drop agendum 1 14:59:30 agendum 1, Break, dropped 14:59:30 ... there are some overlap with W3C lifecycle 15:00:07 https://github.com/w3c/miniapp/blob/gh-pages/docs/FAQ.md#5-is-it-possible-to-harmonize-page-lifecycle-page-visibility-service-worker-lifecycle-and-miniapp-lifecycle-specifications-if-so-how 15:00:43 hrm, we already have a longstanding `onload` event 15:00:54 ... as I mentioned in slides, page level will have difference 15:01:11 PWAs use the page lifecycle + the serviceworker lifecycle 15:01:31 e.g.: https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/primers/service-workers/lifecycle 15:01:42 q? 15:02:08 ... in W3C, we want to harmonise the lifecycle 15:02:10 angel has joined #miniapp 15:02:12 ack Ralph 15:03:05 you can think of the ServiceWorker lifecycle as the application installation and iteration phases, with the page lifecycle events (onload, visibility change events, hide/show events) as view-level events 15:03:10 q+ 15:03:23 (apologies, I need to drop off the call but will lurk here to answer questions) 15:03:25 Ralph: I may missed some points in slides, would you@@@ 15:03:29 wanming has joined #Miniapp 15:03:30 q? 15:03:39 q+ to ask the rec plan of lifecycle in WICG 15:04:17 ack next 15:04:35 regarding why RFC7049/CBOR is not used for miniapps, it's simply a choice of the ecosystem - all the current miniapp implementations are ZIP-based as far as I know. Since the main purpose of miniapp package is to archive files of the app. ZIP is straightforward while CBOR is not. 15:05:06 anqing: it could work offline 15:05:48 ack next 15:05:49 angel, you wanted to ask the rec plan of lifecycle in WICG 15:05:56 xiaoqian has joined #miniapp 15:06:02 we picked something other than Zip for web packaging because of the architecture (and performance) issues around the Central Directory entry being located at the end of the (physical) file or stream 15:06:07 yongjing: internet connection may also a different way compared with web 15:06:22 this means we can't efficiently use Zip on web 15:06:36 angel: is there any lifecycle plan in WICG? 15:06:53 ... is there any CG active 15:07:00 s/any lifecycle/any Rec plan for lifecycle 15:07:06 q+ 15:07:24 s/is there any CG active/is it worth the efforts to set up a group for it? 15:07:24 wendy: that will be a homework for us 15:07:24 https://github.com/WICG/page-lifecycle 15:08:12 xiaoqian: @@@ 15:08:32 Modifications to the HTML Standard -> https://wicg.github.io/page-lifecycle/#mod 15:08:38 q+ 15:08:48 ack chun 15:09:06 ack xiaoqian 15:09:24 s/@@@/when we last reviewed, suggestion was to merge back with HTML/ 15:09:53 chunming: miniapp will pre load some resources, it will has some lifecycle issues 15:10:23 q+ to comment about costs related to HTML spec integration 15:10:30 ... servers worker also has same issue, is there any difference? 15:10:45 s/servers/service/ 15:11:08 anqing: if you look at pre download, it doesn't have much differece 15:11:51 ... I think it similar with service worker 15:12:21 s/... I think it similar/... I think it is similar/ 15:12:25 q? 15:12:36 ack mike 15:12:36 MikeSmith, you wanted to comment about costs related to HTML spec integration 15:12:42 ... but miniapp will use catch and open it quickly 15:13:45 q- 15:13:54 q+ 15:14:10 ack plh 15:14:12 q+ MikeSmith 15:14:17 q+ 15:14:43 present+ Yaoming_Liu_Huawei 15:15:21 ack m 15:15:27 PLH: is there any changllenge when you develop miniapp 15:17:05 PLH: encourage people to raise issues directly in WHATWG repos, in our cooperation with WHATWG 15:17:34 Mike: we need rise those issues, we need lots of people engage in those work with costing lots of time, we could have some solution plan first 15:18:28 ack next 15:19:26 good point from Tess 👍 15:20:06 Theresa: agree with Mike, feel free to reach out us when you have any difficulties 15:20:24 q? 15:20:30 q+ 15:20:35 Wendy: good to have this friendly work environment 15:20:39 ack angel 15:21:22 q+ 15:21:28 angel: there is a interactive issue @@ 15:22:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq_ 15:22:44 Wendy: I think we would like to hear some new features in HTML, that will promote consistent for developer 15:22:49 the short answer is yes Angel. working on the differences of the overall lifecycle before diving into specific spec issues 15:23:21 ... we could do some unique features to extension the HTML 15:23:37 q? 15:23:48 q- 15:24:22 s/there is a interactive issue @@/for interoperability among MiniApp platforms, I think this can be discussed in W3C, might not need to bother WHATWG; for the browser involving part, it make sense to bring the discussion to WHATWG 15:24:55 PLH: want to say working on the differences of the overall lifecycle is a good thing, as least we have some primary work 15:25:31 ... we could define the gap and then to decide what feature we want to add 15:25:36 agenda? 15:25:57 Wendy: thanks for everyone to share your opinions 15:26:16 ... thanks Beihang team prepare this meeting 15:26:22 s/there is a interactive issue @@/for lifecycle specific interoperability among MiniApp platforms, I think this can be discussed in W3C, might not need to bother WHATWG; for the browser involving part, it make sense to bring the discussion to WHATWG 15:26:34 ... I want to review tomorrow's topics 15:27:20 ... hope we could have a detail future plan 15:27:40 ... to resolve those specific issues 15:27:57 q? 15:28:14 ... and please think about what questions you want to realized from this meeting? 15:28:21 ... any question? 15:28:50 ... hope participants could watch the pre-recordings before next meeting 15:28:57 ... thanks everyone 15:29:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/07/30-miniapp-minutes.html xfq_ 15:32:16 zakim, list attendees 15:32:16 As of this point the attendees have been Angel, Ming_Zu, Yinli_Chen, Canfeng_Chen, Han, Tenyuan_Zhang, Qing_An, Xiaoqian, Fuqiao, Xueyuan, Dan, Appelquist, Fuqiao_Xue_W3C, 15:32:19 ... Qiang_Jia_China_Mobile, Xueyuan_Jia_W3C, Dan_Zhou_Baidu, Wendy_Seltzer_W3C, Yinli_Chen_Xiaomi, Zhenjie_Li_W3C, Chuangjie_Luo_Vivo, Jiaying_Liang_W3C, Alexandra_Lacourba_W3C, 15:32:19 ... Xiaoqian_Wu_W3C, Philippe_Le_Hégaret_W3C, Wanming_Lin_Intel, Dominique_Hazaël-Massieux_W3C, Ralph_Swick_(W3C), Ivan_Herman_W3C, Canfeng_Chen_Xiaomi, Mike_Smith_W3C, 15:32:23 ... Ming_Zu_Baidu, Theresa_Apple, Chunming_Hu_W3C, Martin_Alvarez_Espinar_Fundacion_CTIC, Qing_An_Alibaba, plh, Sangwhan_Moon, Yongjing_Zhang_Huawei, Theresa_O'Connor_Apple/TAG, 15:32:23 ... Keith_Gu_Google, Kazuyuki_Ashimura_W3C, Vitaliy_Zasadnyy_Facebook, Nicole_Yu_Alipay, Kaz_Ashimura-W3C, Alex_Russell_Google, François_Daoust_W3C, Thomas_Steiner_Google, 15:32:28 ... Yves_Lafon_W3C, Jiaxun_Wei_Baidu, Tatsuya_Igarashi_Sony, Nathan_Schloss_Facebook, Roy_Ran_W3C, Shuo_Wang_Baidu, Yongqing_Dong_Xiaomi, Vagner_Diniz, Yves, Yaoming_Liu_Huawei 15:44:58 rrsagent, make log public 15:48:11 plh has left #miniapp 17:32:22 wanming has joined #Miniapp