15:01:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #did
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15:01:26 <justin_r> present+
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15:01:32 <agropper> present+
15:01:37 <rhiaro> Zakim, start meeting
15:01:38 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:01:38 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), rhiaro
15:01:42 <rhiaro> Meeting: DID WG
15:01:42 <chriswinc> present+
15:01:46 <rhiaro> present+
15:01:53 <wayne> present+
15:01:59 <dlongley> present+
15:02:00 <dmitriz> present+
15:02:06 <brent> present+
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15:02:36 <Orie> present+
15:02:57 <justin_r> present+
15:03:51 <Orie> scribe+
15:03:56 <manu> present+
15:04:13 <Orie> Topic: Agenda Review
15:04:35 <Orie> brent: agenda, metadata, core issue status check...
15:04:58 <Orie> Topic: Introductions
15:05:19 <drummond> drummond has joined #did
15:05:30 <drummond> present+
15:05:41 <chriswinc> Welcome James!
15:05:48 <Orie> james: I'm james qu, working on DID an china < sorry... missed that>
15:06:18 <JoeAndrieu> JoeAndrieu has joined #did
15:06:27 <Orie> dlongley: Im with digital bazaar, we work on DIDs, VCs and blockchain... been working on standards for over a decade
15:06:42 <Orie> brent: next topic call is later today 6PM ET
15:06:42 <JoeAndrieu> present+
15:06:51 <Orie> ... topic is JWK and key formats
15:06:54 <yancy> present+
15:07:20 <Orie> brent: any questionss?
15:08:00 <Orie> manu: question for justin_r, we had a meta data discussion during the special topic call... there seems to be support for PR #347
15:08:05 <manu> This is the metadata PR: https://github.com/w3c/did-core/pull/347
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15:08:34 <jonathan_holt> present+ jonathan_holt
15:08:42 <Orie> ... we were able to discuss your PR as well. 347 attempt to strike a compromise between the language in your PR and the other PR, primarily around the type of meta data (strings vs infra)
15:09:00 <justin_r> q+
15:09:06 <Orie> ... we are still stuck on a comment about the right hand side, whether it should be strings or must be sstrins.
15:09:29 <Orie> ... we need justin_r to engauge selfissued, and find a resolution on that
15:09:37 <Orie> ... can we get a general review of 347
15:09:43 <brent> ack justin_r
15:10:28 <Orie> justin_r: sorry, just seeing this... I agree the language is problematic.... avoiding details, i will try to take a look at this soon....
15:10:54 <Orie> ... wondering about infra values, and strings... need clarity on infra values.
15:11:18 <Orie> manu: sounds good, you may also want to review the call notes from last week.
15:11:28 <Orie> brent: please review PR 347
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15:11:39 <agropper> Announcement: @ 1PM ET today, UMA Health Info Interop + User Control Webinar https://kantarainitiative.org/events/?event_id1=10763
15:11:40 <Orie> ...moving on to core issue status check
15:11:44 <dezell> present+
15:11:54 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues?q=is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-asc+-label%3Aeditorial+-label%3Adiscuss+-label%3Aneeds-special-call+-label%3A%22horizontal+review%22+-label%3Ametadata+-label%3Akeys
15:12:11 <Orie> brent: we have tried to strip out things we already know we need deeper discussion on
15:12:21 <Orie> ... her we go!
15:12:30 <Orie> brent: issue #198
15:12:31 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/198
15:12:52 <selfissued> selfissued has joined #did
15:12:53 <Orie> ... assigned to markus, not on the call today... phil, justin, other..
15:13:02 <Orie> ... can anyone give an update?
15:13:17 <selfissued> present+
15:13:36 <Orie> ... markus's last comment appears to be the current state.
15:13:41 <manu> Non-official minutes from metadata special topic call are here -- https://www.w3.org/2020/07/16-did-topic-minutes.html
15:13:42 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/202
15:13:48 <Orie> brent: next issue
15:13:51 <justin_r> q+
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15:14:35 <Orie> justin_r: i've read through this section... the text that is in there says the context .... stuff is defined in the did registry
15:14:45 <Orie> ... seems like the language needs to be cleaned up
15:15:06 <Orie> ... need help writing the JSON-LD context language update
15:15:26 <Orie> brent: anyone on the call willing to help?
15:15:27 <identity_woman> off topic but relevant to the life and health of the community  - I'm working on collecting more well wishes for John Jordan this week - here is the Miro card - https://miro.com/app/board/o9J_kp34wZs=/
15:15:46 <Orie> brent: hopefully dave is ok with being assigned by manu
15:15:55 <Orie> justin_r: 621 and 622
15:16:12 <Orie> justin_r: need to account for production / consumption language
15:16:20 <brent> ack justin_r
15:16:33 <Orie> brent: next issue
15:16:41 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/249
15:16:48 <Orie> ... how to mitigage trust issues with the universal resolver
15:17:04 <Orie> ... again markus is not currently on the call
15:17:15 <Orie> ... can anyone comment on the status?
15:17:29 <brent> scribe+
15:17:35 <manu> Orie: Without looking at the issue, I recall, maybe this belongs in implementation guide?
15:17:46 <manu> Orie: out of scope for did core spec, more of implementation guide issue
15:17:48 <manu> scribe+
15:17:51 <brent> Orie: I recall this perhaps fitting better into the implementation guide
15:17:56 <manu> Orie: I'm in favor of closing or moving to implementation guide.
15:18:05 <brent> ... I am in favor of moving this to the implementation guide
15:18:12 <drummond> q+
15:18:33 <brent> ... there are some general privacy considerations around this topic that should be added.
15:18:40 <brent> ack drummond
15:18:55 <Orie> drummond: i agree with orie... i think its a security consideration not a privacy consideration
15:19:05 <Orie> ... the balance of the discussion belongs in the implementation guide
15:19:13 <Orie> ... adding a comment
15:19:28 <Orie> brent: please leave comments
15:19:34 <Orie> ... next PR
15:19:38 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/333
15:20:00 <Orie> ... did syntax, assigned to markus...
15:20:17 <Orie> ... can anyone provide an update? drummond?
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15:21:13 <Orie> drummond: PR exists... this is waiting... related to an ABNF update....
15:21:22 <Orie> brent: PR referenced as been merged
15:21:28 <Orie> drummond: we can close
15:21:37 <Orie> brent: lets do a 7 day close
15:21:55 <Orie> ... next issue
15:22:03 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/185
15:22:18 <Orie> brent: assigned to tobias, not on the call today
15:22:31 <Orie> manu: we will cover this on the special topic call today
15:22:39 <Orie> brent: skipping!
15:22:44 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/337
15:22:55 <Orie> ... when you did params be dropped
15:23:27 <brent> Orie: this is an interesting issue. it is that DID parameters are appended to DIDs by parameters that seek to change the DID document
15:24:05 <brent> ... the conclusion, that needs to be noted on the issue, the did document that is returned should have an id that is the DID, not the DID with the parameters.
15:24:16 <brent> ... the parameters belong in the resolution metadata.
15:24:22 <dlongley> +1 to Orie
15:24:24 <brent> ... we need to add better language around that
15:24:30 <manu> +1 to adding better language around that
15:24:45 <Orie> brent: does anyone want to volunteer to add better language
15:24:55 <Orie> if its assigned to me, i can try
15:25:21 <Orie> brent: i will add a comment, about next steps
15:25:43 <Orie> ... next isue
15:25:50 <manu> s/if its assigned/Orie: if its assigned/
15:25:59 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/339
15:26:03 <Orie> CBOR issue is solid, and should not be marked at rissk
15:26:11 <Orie> q+
15:27:19 <Orie> jonathan: tthe issu is with the registries
15:27:48 <Orie> ... need to update the section to include better COSE / CBOR versions issue
15:27:55 <Orie> ... hard to get a 1:1 mapping
15:28:05 <Orie> ... will be a process of describing a vocabulary
15:28:22 <Orie> ... CBOR tags are their own regstry...
15:28:30 <Orie> ... hard to get interop...
15:28:39 <brent> ack Orie
15:28:45 <Orie> https://github.com/transmute-industries/did-core/tree/master/packages/data-model
15:28:50 <Orie> https://github.com/transmute-industries/decentralized-cbor/blob/master/src/__fixtures__/outputs/table.csv
15:28:51 <brent> Orie: I wanted to share some work I did with CBOR
15:29:10 <brent> ... I made a package that transforms between CBOR JSON JSON-LD, etc.
15:29:23 <brent> ... CBOR is complicated and thetre is a lot of work to be done.
15:29:43 <brent> ... especially with the registries, we don't want to duplicate work done elsewhere.
15:30:00 <Orie> jonathan: thanks, CBOR is stable and well represented... but its gonna take some work...
15:30:10 <Orie> brent: next issue
15:30:18 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/340
15:30:19 <Orie> ... add COSE example into CBOR section
15:30:30 <Orie> jonathan: related to the previous
15:30:53 <Orie> ... raw CBOR will support COSE, DAG CBOR supports <other>
15:31:02 <Orie> brent: add comments to issue
15:31:14 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/pull/253
15:31:24 <Orie> ^ thats not an issue
15:31:38 <Orie> brent: forget that... moving on to 341
15:31:45 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/341
15:31:54 <Orie> ... getting iana registration for additional cbor tags
15:32:01 <Orie> q+
15:32:07 <brent> ack Orie
15:32:15 <selfissued> q+
15:32:31 <brent> Orie: there's a couple of things here. I'm not sure if we're the people who ask IANA to register CBOR tags.
15:32:45 <brent> ... but if we want to do that, we need to record them all on the issue
15:32:54 <jonathan_holt> q+
15:33:05 <brent> ... we also need to think about what the JSON representation of the CBOR property is and reserve those.
15:33:18 <selfissued> I'm registering CBOR tags now in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cbor-date-tag-05
15:33:21 <brent> ... similar to what was doen in WebAuthn.
15:33:25 <selfissued> I'll add a comment to the issue
15:33:39 <Orie> brent: selfissued is registering tags now
15:33:57 <brent> ack jonathan_holt
15:34:03 <Orie> selfissued: as long as the tags make sense, the CBOR WG can do it.
15:34:40 <manu> q+ to note concern around registering TONS of tags.
15:34:45 <Orie> jonathan: we need to iterate and find out which tags we need... if the mimetype is did+cbor... we need to reuse the existing registry... problem solved
15:34:48 <brent> ack selfissued
15:34:54 <brent> ack manu
15:34:54 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to note concern around registering TONS of tags.
15:35:13 <Orie> manu: i will put this in the issue... i have great concern about registering LOTs of tags....
15:35:32 <Orie> ... this group could easily flood all the remaining CBOR tag values... that would be a big problem.
15:35:34 <selfissued> q+
15:35:43 <brent> ack selfissued
15:35:47 <Orie> ... there are other community considerations...
15:36:41 <manu> We have a registry that could be construed as a specification, and we are a WG... we could ask for small tags
15:37:00 <Orie> selfissued: to manu's point... you want to use common sense, given the small tag is a limited resource... we should not consume those small tags without a really good reason.... where a good reason is lots of applications plan to use
15:37:02 <manu> and that would be an abuse of our position as a WG, IMHO. Agree with statements from Mike.
15:37:06 <Orie> brent: next up...
15:37:31 <Orie> privacy considerations for service endpoints...
15:37:32 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/324
15:38:13 <Orie> adrian: basically 2 things on this... 1 is proposal from jonathan, wayne myself... as to how to answer the privacy questions... thats relevenat
15:38:27 <drummond> @manu - should we add a github issue tag for "security considerations" and "privacy considerations" so we can mark issues that need to be covered in those sections?
15:38:52 <Orie> ... 2nd a group of us involved in the glossery project, has a list of 5 types which we might want to define for service endpoints.... we'll share that work soon
15:39:00 <drummond> q+
15:39:08 <Orie> ... 2 things ready for consideration by the group
15:39:17 <Orie> kaliya: lets get the link into chat
15:39:23 <brent> ack drummond
15:40:14 <Orie> drummond: i suggest we add labels for the sections ... sounds like we have a lot of questions to address... we want to have short descriptions in those sections, and then link to implementation guide.
15:40:23 <Orie> ...and potentially other documents
15:40:39 <agropper> Service endpoint type survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc8Z8FklORke1iPRoyo90GNWqqXkmdbgQLNvHvU-v4XvLxO0A/viewform?usp=sf_link
15:40:56 <manu> drummond, yes, we should totally have that, I'll add the tags now.
15:40:57 <Orie> brent: apologies to wayne, jonathan and adrian, we will try and get it into the agenda next week
15:41:04 <Orie> ... next issue
15:41:10 <drummond> @manu, thanks
15:41:10 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/266
15:41:18 <Orie> shoudl DID support self signed certificates
15:41:30 <Orie> ... assigned to manu
15:41:42 <Orie> manu: we...
15:42:01 <Orie> ... selfissued: jwks have fingerprints?
15:42:14 <Orie> ... if we are doing JWK.... its defined?
15:42:30 <Orie> selfissued: there is an RFC which defines how to compute a thumbprint
15:42:41 <Orie> ... not typrically put in a JWK...
15:42:51 <Orie> brent: please add comments to issue
15:43:05 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/208
15:43:08 <Orie> ... ietf did+ld+json media type registration...
15:43:28 <Orie> manu: discussion continues... moving slowly
15:43:51 <Orie> ... if we don't get a resolution from IANA.. we have options
15:43:58 <Orie> brent: please get that comment onto the issue
15:44:06 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/328
15:44:12 <Orie> ... update data model parts of the spec to refer to infra
15:44:25 <Orie> ... there is a PR that does this #347
15:44:32 <Orie> ... review it!
15:44:45 <rhiaro> brent, that's what I was gonna say, thanks
15:45:00 <Orie> brent: next issue
15:45:06 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/122
15:45:12 <rhiaro> brent, also just updated it, I'll make a new PR for this too
15:45:15 <Orie> ... when is a did subject not a did controller, if ever?
15:45:20 <Orie> ... lots of conversation
15:45:31 <Orie> ... amy says she will try a PR
15:45:36 <drummond> q+
15:45:55 <Orie> ... highly recommend people read this issue, lots of value in the comments.
15:46:03 <brent> ack drummond
15:46:36 <Orie> drummond: we will need to reference the appendix... we may need a second appendix for controller
15:46:45 <Orie> ... I will add a note.
15:46:56 <Orie> brent: next issue
15:46:59 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/332
15:47:11 <Orie> ... 332 rename master branch... assigned to me.
15:47:26 <Orie> brent: status is this is blocked by github.io
15:47:36 <Orie> ... we are awaiting tooling from github
15:47:54 <Orie> ... status is no change
15:48:10 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/344
15:48:15 <Orie> brent: 334 impossible did url abnf using eager evaluation...
15:49:05 <Orie> wayne: the issue here is we are more ambitious than URI spec is with token parsing... survey of web servers, seems like we are seeing differences between servers / tokens....
15:49:35 <Orie> ... back tracking parser needed... now in academic world of parsers... i recommend some changes that would work without backtracking
15:49:45 <jonathan_holt> q+
15:49:53 <brent> ack jonathan_holt
15:50:15 <Orie> jonathan: the CCDL may also be overlapping of ABNF rules... not sure of the differences... anyone know?
15:50:22 <Orie> brent: ask on the issue
15:50:39 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/349
15:50:50 <Orie> brent: 349 add relativeRef did URL parameters
15:50:59 <Orie> q+
15:51:05 <brent> ack Orie
15:51:35 <brent> Orie: I think we have the service section registered in the registries, but not the relativeRef, so we need to register it there.
15:51:48 <brent> ... this was formerly done with matrix params
15:51:50 <manu> q+
15:51:55 <brent> ack manu
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15:52:15 <Orie> manu: we also need to specify how that works in did core as well
15:52:28 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/248
15:52:30 <Orie> brent: 248 need term for Relying Party
15:52:34 <Orie> ... joe?
15:52:53 <Orie> joeandrieu: there is a PR for thiss
15:52:58 <Orie> brent: checkout PR 350
15:53:24 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/353
15:53:31 <Orie> brent: 353 confusing example in section 3.2.1 ... did params are URI query strings
15:53:40 <Orie> ... this issue is 5 hours old
15:54:07 <Orie> ... looks like spec language needs to be cleaned
15:54:17 <Orie> ... moving on...
15:54:32 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/198
15:54:37 <Orie> brent: 198 raised by markus, we talked about this already!
15:54:53 <Orie> ... not update, we have gone around the horn...
15:55:28 <Orie> ... we have covered the whole list... to me this means... we now need your PRs
15:55:40 <Orie> ... we need those changes, we need those submissions
15:55:46 <Orie> ... please get your PRs in
15:56:04 <Orie> ... the less call time we spend on issues moving forward, the more time we spend on special topics
15:56:09 <Orie> ... any additional comments?
15:56:18 <jonathan_holt> q+
15:56:20 <wayne> q+
15:56:31 <brent> https://github.com/w3c/did-core/issues/205
15:56:33 <brent> ack jonathan_holt
15:56:50 <Orie> jonathan: i recall that service endpoints were going to be moved
15:56:53 <Orie> q+
15:56:58 <brent> ack wayne
15:57:18 <Orie> wayne: we sent out secuirty questionaire initial responses
15:57:45 <Orie> ... lots of the questions depend on which did methods and the use of service endpoints...
15:57:58 <Orie> ... DNA goes to the mooon?... ?
15:58:12 <Orie> brent: please give feedback on that survey
15:58:15 <brent> ack Orie
15:59:02 <brent> Orie: trying to answer jonathan. the definition of what the services section is, is in the did spec registries, but services as a category of things is still in the did core spec, and is intended to still be there.
15:59:16 <brent> ... and there are are numerous security issues with that.
15:59:49 <Orie> brent: thats the meeting, thanks to people who helped get through issues, promised PRs and submitted PRs
16:00:01 <Orie> ... don't forget our special topic call is in 6 hours
16:00:43 <Orie> By all!
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20:51:11 <Aaron> I wanted to listen in on the chat today but the zoom link seems to be shared only with current members
20:53:25 <Aaron> Meeting link for Zoom in archive:   https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-did-wg/2020Jun/0000.html
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22:20:08 <dbuc> q+
23:04:09 <Aaron> it this irc active
23:04:16 <Aaron> is