15:42:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbg
15:42:43 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-pbg-irc
15:42:46 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:42:47 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Business Group
15:43:02 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2020-06-23: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2020Jun/0004.html
15:43:03 <ivan> Chair: liisa
15:43:03 <ivan> Date: 2020-06-23
15:43:03 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2020Jun/0004.html
15:43:03 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
15:47:45 <ivan> regrets+ cristina
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15:58:17 <Daihei> present+
15:59:37 <tzviya> present+
16:00:09 <dauwhe> present+
16:01:01 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pbg
16:01:12 <wendyreid> present+
16:01:49 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
16:02:14 <ivan> present+
16:02:18 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
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16:02:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:02:38 <liisamk> present+
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16:04:07 <wendyreid> scribe+
16:04:22 <wendyreid> liisamk: To get started with the agenda
16:04:30 <jeff_> present+
16:04:31 <wendyreid> ... the EPUB3 WG charter is now with the AC
16:04:35 <wendyreid> ... the call for votes is open
16:04:46 <Avneesh> present+
16:04:48 <wendyreid> ... please vote if you are able or tell your AC rep
16:04:53 <ivan> EPUB charter review form -> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/epub3wg/
16:05:01 <wendyreid> dauwhe: We definitely need the AC reps of everyone in this group to vote
16:05:12 <wendyreid> liisamk: Some people are only PBG members, BG members have no AC reps
16:05:23 <wendyreid> dauwhe: If you are a member with an AC rep, please vote, it's important
16:05:43 <wendyreid> tzviya: For clarification, please feel free to reach out to me or Ivan for information on this process
16:05:55 <wendyreid> ivan: I have put the link to the call in IRC
16:06:01 <wendyreid> liisamk: What are the next steps?
16:06:05 <wendyreid> ivan: For now, wewait
16:06:09 <dauwhe> q+
16:06:11 <wendyreid> ... we try to convince everyone to vote
16:06:17 <wendyreid> ... we wait until the end of July
16:06:30 <wendyreid> ... if in the mean time there are any objections, then we might have to have discussions
16:06:38 <wendyreid> ... at the end of July we have to see the results
16:07:02 <wendyreid> ... if there are no significant changes required, or formal objections, there may be editorial changes, but it all goes back to W3M
16:07:12 <wendyreid> ... we have to decide when we start
16:07:28 <wendyreid> ... the end of the voting period is July 31, we might say we start Sept 1
16:07:39 <jeff_> q+
16:07:49 <wendyreid> ... if there are significant objections, then it is less clear what we need to do
16:07:52 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
16:07:57 <wendyreid> dauwhe: This is probably a question for Ivan and Jeff
16:08:16 <wendyreid> ... would it make sense to track the members of the PWG/Publishing and record who has voted and who to encourage
16:08:39 <wendyreid> ivan: The list of who has voted is confidential
16:08:57 <wendyreid> ... but contacting the W3C members who are interested or might be is possible
16:09:08 <wendyreid> ... the team has the information about who has voted
16:09:36 <wendyreid> ... that being said, an individual member who votes has the right to keep the email in the mailing list
16:09:45 <wendyreid> ... up to them though
16:10:10 <wendyreid> jeff_: I think that despite what Ivan said about availability, it's not that hard to identify who is interested in EPUB
16:10:19 <wendyreid> ... about 30 organizations
16:10:28 <wendyreid> ... it would not be difficult to contact them
16:10:36 <liisamk> ack jeff
16:10:37 <wendyreid> ... regarding what's next
16:10:55 <wendyreid> ... to make people aware, sometime this summer we'll be in the process of organizing the virtual TPAC
16:11:13 <wendyreid> ... for the most part each group will be figuring out when and how they'll meet
16:11:28 <dauwhe> q+
16:11:37 <wendyreid> ... before the good dates get taken, the proposed chairs might want to discuss when to meet.
16:11:52 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
16:12:09 <wendyreid> dauwhe: Wendy and I did get the TPAC questionnaire, and filled it out in hopes we will be a group by them
16:12:09 <Ralph> present+
16:12:13 <Ralph> [Ralph arrives]
16:12:38 <wendyreid> jeff_: There's going to be new schedules based on the change to virtual, group culture and working mode
16:12:52 <wendyreid> ... especially if groups want to schedule coordination calls with other groups
16:13:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-pbg-minutes.html Ralph
16:13:08 <wendyreid> ... or don't have a group culture yet because they haven't started
16:13:14 <wendyreid> liisamk: Anything else?
16:13:33 <wendyreid> ... let's talk about the follow-up to the survey
16:13:40 <wendyreid> tzviya: I can update on the webinar
16:13:46 <wendyreid> ... we're looking at late July
16:13:58 <wendyreid> ... it will be open to anyone interested in attending
16:14:04 <wendyreid> ... targeted to the publishing community
16:14:19 <wendyreid> ... giving a summary of survey, the new structure, and leaving time for Q&A
16:14:54 <wendyreid> ... need to talk to the SC about volunteers, the initial volunteers are all based in NA, we will discuss with the SC about diversifying the presenters
16:15:02 <wendyreid> ... with representation from all of the groups
16:15:19 <wendyreid> ... provide information on the groups, accessibility, new and old laws
16:15:26 <wendyreid> ... we'll have an invitation soon
16:15:59 <wendyreid> liisamk: Daihei, do you want to talk about the Webinar for Japan?
16:16:10 <wendyreid> Daihei: I thought I was asked to do it this firday
16:16:19 <wendyreid> ... the day of the APL committee meeting
16:16:24 <wendyreid> ... likely now sometime in July
16:16:27 <wendyreid> ... I am going to present
16:16:42 <wendyreid> ... what Liisa and I presented at the DPUB Summit
16:16:51 <Michelle_Kelly> Michelle_Kelly has joined #pbg
16:17:03 <wendyreid> ... hopefully I will also have other groups present like EBPAJ
16:17:21 <wendyreid> ... I am also getting in touch with TDPF
16:17:32 <wendyreid> ... we are trying to figure out a schedule to do it
16:17:39 <Ralph> -> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vxI_dvU8EaRfJBVfNvNpwjLPVCa-ZZHZUUCOB-5YomE/edit Publishing @ W3C Summer Webinar planning document
16:17:50 <wendyreid> ... and I am trying to get in touch with people in China and Korea
16:18:11 <wendyreid> liisamk: Cristina is also working on something in Italian
16:18:19 <wendyreid> ... are there any other requests for localized presentations
16:18:20 <wendyreid> q+
16:18:31 <liisamk> ack wendy
16:18:43 <Daihei> q+
16:19:00 <Ralph> Wendy: if we're doing a presentation end of July on Publishing at Large, why not localize it rather than duplicate effort?
16:19:29 <Ralph> ... instead of having multiple people develop separate presentations
16:19:47 <wendyreid> liisamk: People have been asking for this, and there are requests for localized contents
16:19:53 <wendyreid> ... we should make it more consistent
16:19:56 <tzviya> q+
16:20:00 <wendyreid> ... if people do want localized content
16:20:06 <wendyreid> ... have we heard other requests?
16:20:07 <Avneesh> q+
16:20:14 <liisamk> ack Daihei
16:20:23 <wendyreid> Daihei: In terms of communication, especially outside of W3C
16:20:45 <wendyreid> ... it is important that they should have the opportunity to be exposed to this content
16:20:57 <wendyreid> ... the survey results, and structure
16:21:16 <wendyreid> ... the English understanding in Japan isn't always as strong and localization is needed
16:21:30 <wendyreid> ... we tried to communicate to people who are interested in EPUB being a spec
16:21:38 <wendyreid> ... bringing the survey results to the business people
16:21:52 <wendyreid> ... who will use that information for their decisions.
16:22:09 <wendyreid> ... I am in the process of localizing the slides
16:22:17 <wendyreid> ... where should I put it
16:22:35 <wendyreid> ... so we all have access to the localized versions
16:22:44 <wendyreid> tzviya: I think we have 2 questiosn here
16:22:50 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:22:59 <ivan> q+
16:22:59 <wendyreid> ... by localizing are we talking translations or special content for that region
16:23:15 <wendyreid> ... when we create these presentations how do we make them available
16:23:15 <Ralph> [we can certainly store any BG materials in the W3C GitHub repository]
16:23:23 <wendyreid> ... we can keep them in github or make a website for them
16:23:33 <wendyreid> ... if the answer is simply that we need translations
16:23:58 <wendyreid> ... it would be in our interests to localize the slides and  then have the presentatiosn in the local language
16:24:01 <liisamk> ack Avneesh
16:24:10 <Ralph> i|Date: 2020-06-23|-> https://www.w3.org/2020/06/09-pbg-minutes.html previous Asia-time BG meeting record
16:24:11 <wendyreid> Avneesh: In my experience, this exercise is more than language
16:24:23 <wendyreid> ... it's building a community in alignment with the standards community
16:24:44 <wendyreid> ... explaining to the local community how this works and then getting their feedback
16:24:50 <liisamk> q?
16:24:53 <Ralph> i|Date: 2020-06-23|-> https://www.w3.org/2020/05/26-pbg-minutes.html previous AM/EU-time BG meeting record
16:24:57 <liisamk> ack ivan
16:25:05 <Daihei> +1 to Avneesh
16:25:10 <wendyreid> ivan: For the archival question, we can archive the talks alongside wherever we put the others
16:25:19 <wendyreid> ... GitHub, W3C website, etc
16:25:22 <wendyreid> ... it's not a problem
16:25:23 <Daihei> Thanks Ivan/Tzviya
16:25:26 <liisamk> q+
16:25:26 <Daihei> q+
16:25:52 <wendyreid> liisamk: I do think that Daihei and Cristina have been asked for localized versions of the results
16:26:00 <wendyreid> ... built off the DPUB Summit presentation
16:26:45 <wendyreid> ... it should not be something where any group feels left out, we should make sure there's translations/expertise to give the material local context
16:26:45 <liisamk> ack daihei
16:26:49 <liisamk> ack liisa
16:26:55 <wendyreid> Daihei: Liisa covered what I wanted to say
16:27:05 <wendyreid> ... in Japan there's all sorts of local issues
16:27:12 <wendyreid> ... 85% of the market is manga
16:27:37 <wendyreid> ... one of the reasons the text oriented business is not in EPUB3 is because of Japanese typography
16:27:42 <wendyreid> ... it's more work than FXL
16:27:57 <wendyreid> ... a lot of people are looking for help in minimizing the cost of producing that content
16:28:18 <wendyreid> ... localization means that the document can be understood and discussed
16:28:26 <wendyreid> ... the straight translation is the foundation
16:29:05 <wendyreid> ... the Q&As and such are in the local language
16:29:09 <liisamk> q?
16:29:15 <wendyreid> ... I am not as clear on the process of the translation
16:29:17 <wendyreid> q+
16:29:32 <wendyreid> ... there's scheduling to consider
16:29:49 <wendyreid> tzviya: What I said, we can share slides, we can also share public translations
16:29:58 <wendyreid> ... we can make the slides available in any languages
16:30:10 <liisamk> ack wendy
16:30:33 <Ralph> Wendy: what I think would make the most sense is to have one slide deck that gets localized in whatever ways the community needs
16:30:48 <Ralph> ... but slides can be added to it for the local community
16:31:02 <Ralph> ... to cover whatever the community wants to talk about
16:31:15 <Ralph> ... the localization should be done by someone who is familiar with the local community
16:31:16 <tzviya> +1 to wendyreid
16:31:29 <Daihei> q+
16:31:30 <Ralph> ... so there can be Q&A that is specific to the community
16:31:51 <liisamk> ack Daihei
16:31:58 <Ralph> ... my only concern is to save effort; not do the slides four times
16:32:34 <wendyreid> Daihei: Wendy I want you to understand, I'm mindful of the workload, a lot of people have duties, for the sake of digital publishing, we are trying to make it better for the progress of the W3C and digital publishing
16:32:55 <wendyreid> ... I'm giving my time for this to make sure it's productive
16:33:25 <tzviya> q+ to note rel of epubcheck
16:33:36 <wendyreid> liisamk: Next agenda item, does anyone see any issues in the future that we should be considering?
16:33:42 <jeff_> q+
16:33:47 <wendyreid> ... considering the current pandemic and how it affects business
16:33:53 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:33:53 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to note rel of epubcheck
16:33:59 <tzviya>  https://github.com/w3c/epubcheck/releases/tag/v4.2.4
16:34:00 <wendyreid> tzviya: I just wanted to make sure that there's a new maintenance release for EPUBCheck
16:34:04 <liisamk> q+
16:34:09 <jeff_> q- later
16:34:20 <wendyreid> ... very minor changes, all of the updates are in the documentation, nothing to affect workflow
16:34:55 <wendyreid> ... we deprecated two ARIA roles that weren't working properly, and should stop throwing errors
16:35:03 <wendyreid> liisamk: This is a communication opportunity
16:35:26 <wendyreid> tzviya: We need to communicate major releases, this is minor, but it has been sent to the usual mailing lists and twitter
16:35:32 <Ralph> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-epub3/2020Jun/0001.html "EPUBCheck v4.2.4 (patch maintenance release) is available" [Romain, 23-June]
16:35:34 <wendyreid> ... blog posts don't have quite the same reach
16:35:40 <wendyreid> ... how else could we communicate this?
16:35:47 <wendyreid> liisamk: We should encourage people to use it
16:36:04 <wendyreid> ... my organization's reaction was "oh no a new version how do we roll  it out"
16:36:11 <wendyreid> ... how do we respond to that reaction
16:36:22 <wendyreid> tzviya: People don't read release notes
16:36:36 <wendyreid> liisamk: Not right away, maybe 2 weeks later when they put it in the sprint
16:36:51 <wendyreid> tzviya: I can respond to the email with an explanation on how this doesn't affect workflows
16:36:59 <liisamk> ack liisa
16:37:02 <liisamk> ack jeff
16:37:13 <wendyreid> jeff_: I wasn't sure about how broadly to interpret your question about business
16:37:51 <wendyreid> ... first of all, I would say that we're starting a new WG, I think all of us would like the BG where people who are not active in the WG are meeting, identifying use cases and requirements, engaged with the WG
16:37:55 <wendyreid> ... one item for the BG
16:38:03 <wendyreid> ... how does it want to interact with the WG work
16:38:42 <wendyreid> ... a companion question, when we merged with the IDPF, we thought that there would be a small number as full members, and more as BG members, fewer than anticipated
16:38:47 <wendyreid> ... I spoke to some
16:38:55 <wendyreid> ... the reaction was "epub3 is done"
16:39:10 <wendyreid> ... w3c work on web publications is not relevant
16:39:24 <wendyreid> ... that was 2-3 years ago, they didn't feel the BG was relevant to them
16:39:32 <wendyreid> ... Audiobooks is nearly done
16:39:52 <wendyreid> ... and EPUB3 is being revised, maybe there are people out there who want to get involved from the business side
16:40:13 <wendyreid> ... is there something that can be done to address the BG issue
16:40:23 <liisamk> q+
16:40:32 <liisamk> ack liisamk
16:40:41 <wendyreid> liisamk: I think that one of the things that I'm seeing
16:40:45 <wendyreid> ... in the second half of 2020
16:40:54 <wendyreid> ... is that there's a doubling down on the backlist
16:41:22 <wendyreid> ... a lot of movement where seeing recovery in trade publishing, focusing on the backlist where we're cleaning it up
16:41:28 <wendyreid> ... it's being pushed by partners
16:41:37 <wendyreid> ... some of these books are poorly formatted, not accessible
16:41:46 <Daihei> q+
16:41:48 <wendyreid> ... it also reminds me of things we wanted to see as features
16:42:12 <wendyreid> ... we're segmenting work to anticipate the changes in reading systems and EPUB coming out of the WG
16:42:21 <wendyreid> Daihei: To elaborate
16:42:23 <liisamk> ack Daihei
16:42:24 <tzviya> q+ to ask about working on audio books
16:42:30 <wendyreid> ... I recently found that from the 4 major publishers
16:42:39 <wendyreid> ... in Japan, according to their results
16:42:57 <wendyreid> ... certain stores, backlist was outselling new releases
16:43:33 <wendyreid> ... when I was speaking to him, he wanted to make clear that there was cooperation between the store and publisher to advertise the backlist alongside new releases
16:43:41 <wendyreid> ... normally new releases are the drivers of revenue
16:44:03 <liisamk> q?
16:44:08 <wendyreid> ... now because of COVID, people are more inclined to use digital copies, and the backlist titles become important part of revenue
16:44:27 <wendyreid> ... if all of the publishers in Japan see that, they'll try to spend more money/time on releasing the backlist
16:44:35 <wendyreid> ... which will contribute to their revenue
16:44:43 <liisamk> q+
16:44:45 <wendyreid> ... everyone will benedit
16:44:50 <wendyreid> s/benedit/benefit
16:45:02 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:45:02 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask about working on audio books
16:45:18 <wendyreid> tzviya: Jeff mentioned we're nearly done with audiobooks, we're stilling looking for audiobooks implementations
16:45:24 <wendyreid> ... and more support from publishers/retailers
16:45:31 <wendyreid> ... I would love to see focus on that from the BG
16:45:43 <wendyreid> liisamk: We're happy to put it on the agenda
16:46:00 <wendyreid> ... strongarming people into implementing, maybe, but we can't push too hard
16:46:11 <wendyreid> ... we should maybe work on something for the APA or BISG
16:46:36 <wendyreid> ... a lot of looking at the backlist brings up the question of the committment a publisher has to books that are no longer for sale
16:46:46 <wendyreid> ... the partners who are still supporting those books
16:46:51 <wendyreid> ... would love to see updates
16:46:58 <wendyreid> ... new formatting, improved content
16:47:03 <wendyreid> ... whose reponsibility is that?
16:47:27 <wendyreid> ... if the publisher takes it out of print, are they still responsible for the digital
16:47:40 <wendyreid> ... there's an interesting challenge in the archive for digital products
16:47:45 <liisamk> q?
16:47:49 <liisamk> ack liisa
16:48:11 <wendyreid> liisamk: Let's keep this topic open and have a dialogue about it
16:48:17 <tzviya> q+
16:48:30 <wendyreid> ... is there any updates on accessibility
16:48:32 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:48:40 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/TR/coga-usable/
16:48:48 <wendyreid> tzviya: I'm not sure if people here are familiar with the Cognitive Accessibility Task Force
16:49:01 <wendyreid> ... Steve Lee asked if he might be able to come here to present on it
16:49:12 <wendyreid> ... the document focuses on learning disabilities
16:49:17 <adoll> +1 tzviya Legible would love to hear from him
16:49:17 <wendyreid> ... they're seeking feedback on that now
16:49:32 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-conformance-challenges/
16:49:39 <wendyreid> ... Challenges with the Accessibility Guidelines, controversial, but also worth reviewing
16:49:48 <wendyreid> ... It's a note but worth reviewing
16:50:07 <wendyreid> ... I'm not sure about mentions of EPUB, but I am sure they're open to feedback
16:50:25 <wendyreid> liisamk: I think it's an important thing to consider
16:50:32 <wendyreid> ... we were talking about accessibility colours
16:50:36 <wendyreid> ... if the book is about colour
16:50:57 <wendyreid> ... and it talks about shades of yellow, how do we make the content accessible and good for the audience
16:51:12 <liisamk> q?
16:51:44 <wendyreid> ... speaking of presentations, our colleagues from Legible have offered to do a presentation for us in July
16:51:46 <wendyreid> ... for both meetings
16:51:56 <wendyreid> ... rather than doing a recording
16:52:13 <wendyreid> ... a lot of why they're participating, they would like feedback, and it's important for us as a community for us to provide that
16:52:28 <wendyreid> ... and we're gathering a list of members of the community and W3C we would love to hear from
16:52:50 <wendyreid> ... we'd like to line up 1/month for a 15 minute presentation and some q&a
16:53:03 <wendyreid> ... not on marketing, but on the future and ways we can work with other groups
16:53:07 <wendyreid> ... any thoughts
16:53:30 <wendyreid> ... We'll be asking Ralph about the privacy implications of recordings and everything
16:53:40 <Daihei> q+
16:53:45 <wendyreid> Ralph: That's something for legal to review
16:54:01 <wendyreid> ... just to remind you I have started a document for us to brainstorm topics
16:54:11 <liisamk> ack Daihei
16:54:32 <wendyreid> Daihei: I wanted to put in my ideas, I'll do that
16:54:53 <Ralph> s/for legal to review/that would likely be generally useful for W3C; I can ask our legal counsel for her input
16:54:57 <wendyreid> ... I was appointed to be a committee member of the ministry of communications for WOT
16:55:22 <wendyreid> ... they would like to understand what is going on in publishing and media
16:55:32 <wendyreid> ... publishing and gaming, video, etc
16:56:03 <wendyreid> ... I talked to them yesterday, there's a lot of interest in the Japanese government of publishing contributing to other formats
16:56:49 <wendyreid> ... it might be interesting to have a presentation from them on what they are looking at
16:57:33 <wendyreid> ... there's a number of groyps in the W3C with technologies interesting to them, like DID
16:58:06 <wendyreid> ... we can add the ideas to the paper, but that's an interesting thing happening outside of publishing
16:58:19 <wendyreid> liisamk: Any other feedback?
16:58:44 <wendyreid> ... next meeting will be the Asia/NA timezone
16:58:50 <wendyreid> ... be well and be safe!
16:59:16 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
16:59:17 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Daihei, tzviya, dauwhe, wendyreid, wolfgang, ivan, Bill_Kasdorf, liisamk, jeff_, Avneesh, Ralph
16:59:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:59:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-pbg-minutes.html Zakim
16:59:21 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:59:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
17:00:11 <Ralph> i/liisamk: To get started/Topic: EPUB 3 WG Charter
17:00:54 <Ralph> i/tzviya: I can update on the webina/topic: Webinar Planning
17:02:13 <Ralph> i/liisamk: Next agenda item, does/topic: Future BG topics
17:02:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-pbg-minutes.html Ralph
17:03:19 <Ralph> hmm, not all the attendees were identified with present+
17:06:07 <Ralph> present+ Michelle Kelly
17:06:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-pbg-minutes.html Ralph
17:06:40 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
17:06:40 <RRSAgent> I see no action items