18:52:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #immersive-web
18:52:57 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-immersive-web-irc
18:55:17 <atsushi> zakim, clear agenda
18:55:17 <Zakim> agenda cleared
18:55:47 <atsushi> agenda+ webxr#1088 Allow caching various objects (take 2); To discuss how people feel about unconditionally caching, and whether there's anything that can be done about poses [Manishearth]
18:57:17 <atsushi> meeting: Immersive Web Working Group Teleconference - 2020-06-23
18:57:47 <kip> kip has joined #immersive-web
18:58:14 <atsushi> agenda: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/master/meetings/wg/2020-06-23-Immersive_Web_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
18:58:57 <atsushi> date: 23 June 2020
18:59:02 <atsushi> rrsagent, make log public
18:59:07 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish log v2
18:59:07 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'publish log v2', atsushi.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:59:23 <atsushi> s/rrsagent, publish log v2//
18:59:30 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish minutes v2
18:59:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-immersive-web-minutes.html atsushi
18:59:36 <yonet> yonet has joined #immersive-web
18:59:50 <kip> present+
19:00:28 <Leonard> Leonard has joined #immersive-web
19:00:30 <atsushi> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2020/06/02-immersive-web-minutes.html
19:03:41 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #immersive-web
19:03:49 <cabanier> present+
19:04:03 <Manishearth> present+
19:04:08 <Leonard> present+
19:04:24 <cwilso> present+
19:06:10 <yonet> present+
19:06:15 <Leonard> scribe Leonard
19:06:41 <atsushi> s/scribe Leonard//
19:06:44 <atsushi> scribe: Leonard
19:07:48 <Leonard> @Manishearth: No one is speaking
19:07:56 <Leonard> Now Chris is...
19:08:00 <cwilso> yes, I am now?
19:08:07 <atsushi> zakim, take up agendum 1
19:08:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "webxr#1088 Allow caching various objects (take 2); To discuss how people feel about unconditionally caching, and whether there's anything that can be done about poses"
19:08:11 <Zakim> ... taken up [from Manishearth via atsushi]
19:08:15 <Leonard> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/1088
19:08:17 <Manishearth> alrght i can't hear
19:09:01 <Leonard> Delaying for resolution of technical audio issues
19:09:46 <Leonard> Manish: Every animation frame creates a bunch of objects
19:10:09 <Manishearth> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1010
19:10:18 <Leonard> ... causes problems with GC. Can these objects be reused from frame to frame?
19:11:03 <Leonard> Start with XRViewport, XRFrame objects and a bunch others
19:11:48 <atsushi> chair: Ada
19:11:54 <Leonard> ... Current PR only caches XRViewport when viewport does not change
19:12:15 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish minutes v2
19:12:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-immersive-web-minutes.html atsushi
19:12:23 <Leonard> ... This might break content (e.g., boolean) that expects the objects to be deleted
19:12:54 <Leonard> ... Should this be mandated or a UA choice? It has some impact for content.
19:13:00 <Leonard> Discussion...
19:13:08 <Manishearth> q?
19:13:09 <Leonard> <crickets>
19:13:17 <cabanier> q+
19:13:41 <Leonard> Manish: Any allergic reactions provided it's an animation frame and viewport doesn't change?
19:13:55 <yonet> ack cabanier
19:14:15 <Leonard> Rik: Anything in HTML spec that allows an API to return the same object?
19:15:12 <Leonard> Manish: DOM tree is singular. There are APIs that return a specific object or something new.
19:15:14 <ada> ack cabanier
19:15:46 <Leonard> Rik: APIs shouldn't impact/observe/etc GC behavior
19:16:27 <Leonard> Manish: This PR doesn't change/observe GC.
19:18:29 <ada> q?
19:18:57 <Leonard> Manish: getElementByTagName may return the same object. This is OK as long as the return is not dependent on GC
19:19:53 <Leonard> Leonard: Discussion primarly based on "may" vs. "must" in determining how the UI needs to behave.
19:19:54 <Manishearth> q?
19:20:09 <Leonard> Leonard: Also note GC == garbage collection
19:20:41 <Leonard> Manish: XRFrameObject is always the same. XRViewport is the same until Viewport changes
19:20:57 <Leonard> Ada: Might anyone have a h/w issue with this?
19:21:33 <Leonard> Manish: No. Might be difficiult to determine if there is a viewport change if floating point, but currently integer
19:22:06 <Leonard> Ada: Recommends that the PR remains open until others get a chance to review it
19:22:17 <Leonard> Manish: Agrees
19:22:20 <Manishearth> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/1085
19:22:58 <atsushi> topic: webxr#1085 One big `secondary-views` opt-in, or an opt-in per secondary view scenario?
19:23:29 <Leonard> Manish: This written by Alex. Added secondary views capability. Used if provided or generated if not available.
19:24:03 <Leonard> ... different types supported: 1st person, 3rd person, quad (2 views/eye).
19:24:30 <Leonard> ... Manish & Brandon position is one big opt-in for everything with a flag indicating view type
19:25:20 <Leonard> Rik: A 3rd person would be not "head attached
19:25:31 <Leonard> s/"head/"head"/
19:26:08 <Leonard> Manish: Correct. The view would be someplace else. e.g., over the shoulder, etc. Generally 3rd person view
19:26:29 <Leonard> ... requires rendering of the body & head. 1st person is (usually) just body.
19:27:06 <Leonard> Rik: More for VR rather than AR. Is that an issue for definition?
19:27:17 <kip> q+ To mention that 1str person views are often a wider FOV and have smoothed out motion for VR
19:27:17 <Leonard> Manish: No, not currently defined.
19:27:43 <ada> ack kip
19:27:43 <Zakim> kip, you wanted to mention that 1str person views are often a wider FOV and have smoothed out motion for VR
19:28:27 <cabanier> q+
19:28:30 <Leonard> q+
19:28:56 <Leonard> Kip: Streaming frequently uses 1st person with wide FOV and low-pass to remove motion
19:30:05 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish minutes v2
19:30:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-immersive-web-minutes.html atsushi
19:30:53 <Leonard> Manish: Opt-in already exists. Secondary views are generally not good when browser created.
19:31:01 <ada> ack cabanier
19:31:05 <atsushi> i/Manish: Every animation frame creates a bunch of objects/topic: webxr#1088 Allow caching various objects (take 2); To discuss how people feel about unconditionally caching, and whether there's anything that can be done about poses [Manishearth]/
19:32:04 <Leonard> Rik: Eye tracking system may causes problems with rendered scene
19:32:11 <ada> ack Leonard
19:32:17 <Leonard> Manish: Issue is for opt-in
19:32:57 <Leonard> Leonard: Any issues with accessibility, especially for someone with only one functioning eye
19:33:09 <Leonard> Manish: No.
19:33:09 <ada> q?
19:34:00 <Leonard> Ada: No other issues, no other comments...
19:34:14 <Leonard> Meeting complete.
19:34:31 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish minutes v2
19:34:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/23-immersive-web-minutes.html atsushi