IRC log of redesign on 2020-06-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:04:15 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/06/11-redesign-irc
12:04:21 [Zakim]
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12:04:47 [koalie]
meeting: project review: Choosing a front-end framework
12:05:50 [koalie]
agenda+ Framework? Apollo not being a framework in the same way Bootstrap is
12:06:03 [koalie]
agenda+ Future support
12:06:08 [koalie]
agenda+ New changes in the future
12:06:14 [koalie]
agenda+ Licensing
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12:59:15 [koalie]
I have not yet hung up from Global
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present+ Coralie
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present+ Léonie
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present+ Jean-Gui
13:01:37 [koalie]
present+ Sam
13:01:44 [Ralph]
present+
13:01:45 [vivien]
present+
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present+ Nicola_Saunders
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present+
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13:02:16 [vivien]
Zakim, who is on teh call?
13:02:16 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, vivien.
13:02:17 [koalie]
present+ Simon_Jones
13:02:20 [vivien]
Zakim, who is on the call?
13:02:20 [Zakim]
Present: Coralie, Léonie, Jean-Gui, Sam, Ralph, vivien, Nicola_Saunders, weiler, Simon_Jones
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13:02:46 [gerald]
present+ Gerald
13:02:48 [denis]
present+
13:02:53 [ivan]
present+
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present+
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present+
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present+
13:03:37 [koalie]
agenda?
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Regrets+ dom
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13:04:34 [ted]
Present+ Ted
13:04:42 [jeff]
I have a zoom link, but it does not appear to work https://mit.zoom.us/u/axUJ9zxJO
13:04:52 [koalie]
agenda+ Testing
13:04:56 [koalie]
agenda+ Maintenance
13:05:02 [koalie]
agenda+ Doc and community
13:05:07 [koalie]
agenda+ Deadline
13:05:21 [koalie]
agenda?
13:05:28 [weiler]
to what degree are source code control, ACL management, and authentication support in scope?
13:06:11 [koalie]
Zakim, drop item 2
13:06:11 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Future support, dropped
13:06:32 [koalie]
Zakim, agenda?
13:06:32 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
13:06:33 [Zakim]
1. Framework? Apollo not being a framework in the same way Bootstrap is [from koalie]
13:06:33 [Zakim]
3. New changes in the future [from koalie]
13:06:33 [Zakim]
4. Licensing [from koalie]
13:06:33 [Zakim]
5. Testing [from koalie]
13:06:33 [Zakim]
6. Maintenance [from koalie]
13:06:33 [Zakim]
7. Doc and community [from koalie]
13:06:33 [wseltzer]
present+
13:06:34 [Zakim]
8. Deadline [from koalie]
13:07:03 [koalie]
Zakim, agenda order is 1 3 5 7 6 8 4
13:07:03 [Zakim]
ok, koalie
13:07:08 [koalie]
Zakim, agenda?
13:07:08 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
13:07:09 [Zakim]
1. Framework? Apollo not being a framework in the same way Bootstrap is [from koalie]
13:07:09 [Zakim]
3. New changes in the future [from koalie]
13:07:09 [Zakim]
5. Testing [from koalie]
13:07:09 [Zakim]
7. Doc and community [from koalie]
13:07:09 [Zakim]
6. Maintenance [from koalie]
13:07:09 [Zakim]
8. Deadline [from koalie]
13:07:10 [Zakim]
4. Licensing [from koalie]
13:07:28 [ted]
cccccceukvethegngccgdbrlkhruunvtgubiknccgder
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s/cccccceukvethegngccgdbrlkhruunvtgubiknccgder//
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13:09:19 [vivien]
[[
13:09:20 [koalie]
Topic: Systeam feedback
13:09:20 [vivien]
The Systems Team discussed this topic yesterday.
13:09:20 [vivien]
You will find minutes here:
13:09:20 [vivien]
https://www.w3.org/2020/06/10-systeam-minutes#item01
13:09:20 [vivien]
The main points were:
13:09:20 [vivien]
Testing: Apollo v2 is really new and we would be the first ones to use it, meaning it has not received a lot of testing yet, which ultimately means there will be bugs as for any new project being release
13:09:21 [vivien]
Maintenance: What kind of maintenance can we expect after the final version of the website is released and more generally on the long term (to handle issues reported by our users or to use on other pages)
13:09:21 [vivien]
Documentation and community: seems to be a key aspect. Bootstrap has a huge community and documentation available, even if Apollo is on GitHub it does not seem to have any community, so we can't really call this an open source project.
13:09:22 [vivien]
Deadline: You mention it might take more time for you if you were to use Bootstrap, what would be the impact on the project timeline?
13:09:23 [vivien]
]]
13:09:53 [koalie]
[Vivien summarizes the above]
13:10:31 [koalie]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:10:51 [Ralph]
rrsagent, pointer?
13:10:51 [RRSAgent]
See https://www.w3.org/2020/06/11-redesign-irc#T13-10-51
13:11:18 [koalie]
Zakim, take up item 1
13:11:18 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Framework? Apollo not being a framework in the same way Bootstrap is" taken up [from koalie]
13:11:44 [koalie]
Simon: we might have confused things a bit by calling Apollo a framework
13:11:53 [koalie]
... while it's our agency's approach to building websites
13:12:08 [koalie]
... the team has been using that [since 2017] in the work we do
13:12:18 [koalie]
... Nick is looking as v2
13:12:38 [koalie]
... this approach lets us work on project more efficiently
13:12:55 [koalie]
... We open sourced it as it's easy to do
13:13:05 [jeff]
q+
13:13:27 [koalie]
Nicki: Apollo is really about giving us a means to quickly start working on a new project
13:13:31 [koalie]
... consistent
13:13:34 [fantasai]
My comments posted to https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-website-redesign/2020Jun/0004.html fwiw
13:13:42 [koalie]
... uses vanilla html css
13:13:51 [koalie]
q?
13:13:59 [koalie]
ack jeff
13:14:31 [koalie]
Jeff: the confusion I have re: framework is that I'm not sure the breadth of the statement of what apollo does
13:14:42 [koalie]
... we build web pages for our website
13:14:45 [tink]
q+
13:14:58 [koalie]
... are the people going to use apollo?
13:15:16 [koalie]
Simon: It's for us to help build the CSS
13:15:26 [koalie]
... once we're done, you'll have a bunch of html templates and css
13:15:40 [koalie]
... so if people want to use the new design they will have to use the templates
13:15:48 [koalie]
... we'll document that in a design system
13:16:05 [koalie]
... apollo will end up being a small part of what we'll end up building for you
13:16:16 [r12a]
q+
13:16:30 [koalie]
ack f
13:16:42 [koalie]
fantasai: I made a whole bunch of comment
13:16:47 [koalie]
... that I won't repeat
13:17:01 [koalie]
... It's important to know that Apollo is like a skeleton with a bunch of patterns
13:17:28 [koalie]
... set of CSS rules and maybe some javascript
13:17:39 [koalie]
... so you don't have to build that from scratch
13:18:49 [koalie]
... if you write a website with html and css, it will not break down
13:19:05 [Ralph]
-> https://www.w3.org/2020/06/11-redesign-irc#T13-10-51 fantasai's comments to public-website-redesign
13:19:06 [koalie]
... maintenance, if you need to improve, is needed
13:19:10 [koalie]
... to make it better
13:19:20 [koalie]
... so not concerned about the maintenance question
13:19:53 [koalie]
Nicki: Thanks fantassai for the comments
13:20:05 [Ralph]
s/ss/s
13:20:07 [koalie]
... what we're trying to do with apollo isn't very far from html and css
13:20:07 [fantasai]
s/needed/only needed/
13:20:18 [kaz]
q?
13:20:20 [kaz]
q+
13:20:24 [koalie]
... allows us to add a minimal lay of customization
13:20:29 [koalie]
ack tink
13:20:50 [koalie]
Léonie: Nicki just confirmed that apollo is an accelerator
13:20:53 [koalie]
... so it's a good thing
13:21:02 [koalie]
... I agree maintenability is an important aspect
13:21:21 [koalie]
... also, endorsement:
13:21:32 [koalie]
... as soon as W3C chooses a framework there's an implicit endorsement
13:21:43 [koalie]
... also, leading by example
13:21:44 [Bert]
q+ to say that "maintenance" and "making it better" is not that distinct.
13:21:57 [koalie]
... apollo seems to stick to the good basic ideas of HTML and CSS
13:22:06 [koalie]
... and W3C could take this stance
13:22:08 [koalie]
... lastly,
13:22:12 [koalie]
... accessibility is important
13:22:18 [koalie]
... I looked at apollo
13:22:22 [fantasai]
Bert, in some ways yes, but in some ways "fix things that are broken" is a large part of what's considered "maintenance", and HTML and CSS don't "break" going forward :)
13:22:27 [koalie]
... pretty good, with a few things to look at
13:22:35 [koalie]
... but far more accessible than Bootstrap
13:22:50 [koalie]
... accessibillity can be gnarly
13:23:05 [koalie]
... my recommendation is to use apollo.
13:23:07 [koalie]
ack next
13:23:10 [fantasai]
s/to build that/to build common components like tabbed navigation, sidebar layouts, etc./
13:23:25 [koalie]
Richard: I know next to nothing about these things
13:23:42 [koalie]
... what I'd like to know is: are these frameworks tools to create the templates?
13:24:00 [koalie]
... or will people like me who contribute pages need to know that framework?
13:24:11 [koalie]
Nicki: apollo is about building components and layouts
13:24:21 [koalie]
... there needs to be another decision on what CMS to use
13:24:41 [koalie]
... apollo is about front-end styling
13:24:42 [weiler]
[thank you for the clarification that CMS is in-scope and also not ripe]
13:25:03 [koalie]
... there should not be much need to change the CSS
13:25:13 [koalie]
... there will be guidelines on typography and colour
13:25:35 [koalie]
Richard: Would I, if I want to create a page in the future, will have to understand apollo to use the templates that are available?
13:25:53 [koalie]
Vivien: today anyone can start a page from scratch, literally
13:26:08 [koalie]
... we're trying to move away from that
13:26:20 [koalie]
... team will lose some freedom in their ability to create web pages
13:26:39 [koalie]
... in the name of a more harmonious website, consistent, and with better branding
13:26:50 [koalie]
... pages will be started from a common ground
13:26:58 [koalie]
... via a CMS
13:27:16 [koalie]
... your focus will be on the content, not the page itself
13:27:39 [kaz]
present+ Kaz
13:27:40 [koalie]
Richard: I hope that when we put the site together we take i18n into account as well as a11y
13:27:51 [koalie]
... language labels, right to left, etc.
13:28:22 [koalie]
Nicki: We're very aware of the global nature of W3C
13:28:36 [koalie]
... we're keen to add to apollo something for i18n
13:29:04 [koalie]
Simon: bidirectional text, for example
13:29:25 [koalie]
q?
13:29:38 [koalie]
Richard: It would be nice to have a bidi @@
13:29:46 [koalie]
Simon: Right
13:29:51 [weiler]
s/@@/CSS file to swap in/
13:30:06 [koalie]
Nicki: we want to support CSS logical properties
13:30:11 [koalie]
... fallback will be needed
13:30:17 [koalie]
Richard: great to hear
13:30:23 [koalie]
q?
13:30:33 [koalie]
ack r
13:30:33 [Zakim]
Ralph, you wanted to ask to what Simon was referring when he said "might document"
13:30:47 [koalie]
Ralph: Richard just proved my point in IRC: he does know a lot!
13:30:51 [koalie]
... I had a question for Simon
13:31:20 [koalie]
... in response to Jeff's question on components apollo provides
13:31:39 [koalie]
... I heard you say that there are things you *might* document
13:31:52 [koalie]
... which things might be important to our long-term use of the site?
13:32:06 [koalie]
Simon: sleep of the tongue
13:32:13 [koalie]
... we intend to deliver a design system
13:32:17 [koalie]
... to explain the templates
13:32:31 [koalie]
... so that the team can build more web pages
13:32:31 [tink]
Zakim:q+
13:32:34 [gerald]
s/sleep/slip/
13:32:38 [koalie]
q+ tink
13:33:03 [koalie]
... it's going to be more than apollo
13:33:10 [koalie]
... we're aiming to document as much as possible
13:33:17 [koalie]
... sorry for using "might"
13:33:37 [koalie]
Ralph: if we want to create components on our own, will there be documentation for that?
13:33:43 [tink]
ack me
13:33:44 [koalie]
Simon: that depends on the CMS question
13:33:52 [koalie]
... not a hundred percent sure
13:34:10 [koalie]
ack next
13:34:10 [r12a]
s/It would be nice to have a bidi @@/It would be essential to have support for bidi content/
13:34:31 [koalie]
Kaz: Many mechanisms for W3C pages
13:34:43 [koalie]
... some manually edited, some generated, some mirrored from GH
13:35:03 [koalie]
... we should think about which part should be handle which and how to combine
13:35:25 [koalie]
... and how to integrate all of them is key
13:35:30 [koalie]
q?
13:35:57 [koalie]
Simon: the design system (documentation) is intended to be static html
13:36:12 [koalie]
... we can integrate this in any system you use
13:36:54 [koalie]
ack next
13:36:55 [Zakim]
Bert, you wanted to say that "maintenance" and "making it better" is not that distinct.
13:37:06 [kaz]
s/should be handle/should be handled by/
13:37:10 [koalie]
Bert: back to a point fantasai made
13:37:25 [koalie]
... maintenance indeed many not be needed
13:37:26 [kaz]
s/is key/is the key/
13:37:28 [koalie]
s/many/may
13:37:41 [koalie]
... but between maintenance and improvement there is a fine line
13:37:51 [koalie]
... sometimes people need just a little bit more
13:38:02 [koalie]
... [Bert gives an example]
13:38:27 [koalie]
... in any case, we need to know a bit of the existing stylesheets in order to extend them for (improvement|maintenance)
13:38:36 [fantasai]
s/example/example of adding ability to have three images in a row with captions, by adding a few lines of CSS/
13:38:36 [koalie]
... so it's not just writing one for 20 years
13:38:43 [koalie]
ack next
13:38:44 [Zakim]
fantasai, you wanted to note that we have a lot of hand-coded pages and that's likely to continue
13:39:01 [koalie]
fantasai: we do have a lot of hand-coded pages on the site
13:39:05 [koalie]
... they need to continue to work
13:39:08 [Ralph]
[in Vivien's response to Richard's question I heard something else that would be nice to clarify internally. In our current environment any Team member is able to post a trivially bare HTML file on w3.org, and then it can be styled later. The threshold to First Publish is very low. If the CMS requires more knowledge before First Publish, that raises the threshold]
13:39:10 [koalie]
... we'll continue to add pages
13:39:17 [koalie]
... that's how we experiment and show off
13:39:24 [koalie]
... whatever we're building will need to accommodate that
13:39:30 [koalie]
... Bootstrap has a lot of classes
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13:39:37 [koalie]
... apollo has much fewer things
13:39:50 [koalie]
... we'll need what we'll need
13:39:52 [Ralph]
[ah! Fantasai's "hand coded pages" comment is a variant of my concern]
13:39:55 [koalie]
.. second what Léonie said
13:39:59 [koalie]
Zakim, next item
13:39:59 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "New changes in the future" taken up [from koalie]
13:40:09 [jeff]
[Correct, Ralph, and it's not just the Team.]
13:40:26 [fantasai]
s/add pages/add hand-coded pages/
13:40:27 [koalie]
Nicki: Apollos is a starting point
13:40:32 [koalie]
... we keep it under review
13:40:44 [koalie]
... from a client support point of view too
13:40:59 [fantasai]
s/we'll need what we'll need/will only include things that we need/
13:41:03 [koalie]
... we handle that on a case by case basis
13:41:37 [koalie]
... in which case we may decide to roll back into apollo if it fills a gap that's been identified
13:41:41 [koalie]
q?
13:41:51 [weiler]
zakim, agenda?
13:41:51 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
13:41:52 [Zakim]
3. New changes in the future [from koalie]
13:41:52 [Zakim]
5. Testing [from koalie]
13:41:52 [Zakim]
7. Doc and community [from koalie]
13:41:52 [Zakim]
6. Maintenance [from koalie]
13:41:52 [Zakim]
8. Deadline [from koalie]
13:41:52 [Zakim]
4. Licensing [from koalie]
13:41:53 [gerald]
[/me would expect the team would continue to be able to create arbitrary html/css/etc files]
13:41:58 [koalie]
Zakim, next item
13:41:58 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Testing" taken up [from koalie]
13:41:59 [weiler]
q+
13:42:07 [koalie]
ack we
13:42:45 [koalie]
Sam: how easy will features be ready to roll out, e.g. webauthn?
13:42:51 [koalie]
Simon: I read the question
13:42:59 [koalie]
... I don't think it makes a different what framework we use
13:43:05 [koalie]
... it's more of a programming thing
13:43:10 [koalie]
... e.g. symfony or CMS
13:43:23 [koalie]
... apollo or bootstrap would not prevent you from doing this
13:44:48 [koalie]
Coralie: that's Vivien's topic as Apollo v2 is really new and we would be the first ones to use it, meaning it has not received a lot of testing yet, which ultimately means there will be bugs as for any new project being release
13:44:57 [koalie]
Vivien: V2 is just going out
13:45:29 [koalie]
Vivien: concerned a bit that we're going to be a guinea pig for apollo v2
13:45:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/11-redesign-minutes.html Ralph
13:45:39 [koalie]
... from systeam's point of view this is something we try to avoid
13:45:57 [koalie]
... ability to handle bug reports?
13:45:59 [simonrjones]
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13:46:02 [koalie]
... during and after the project
13:46:24 [koalie]
Simon: the current v2 that Nicki is working on is based on v1 available the last 4 years
13:46:37 [koalie]
... like any project we'll be testing as we build
13:46:41 [koalie]
... thoroughly
13:47:00 [r12a]
q+
13:47:19 [koalie]
ack r12a
13:47:51 [koalie]
Richard: I get a little nervous when people say "we're going to do a11y testing and don't say i18n"
13:48:11 [koalie]
Simon: We'll have to look at that, it's a very good point
13:48:16 [koalie]
ack fantasai
13:48:16 [Zakim]
fantasai, you wanted to contrast with hand-coded CSS
13:48:47 [koalie]
fantasai: on the i18n side, probably it's going to be easier
13:49:04 [koalie]
... w3c's website currently uses conneg
13:49:11 [koalie]
... the CMS will have to take this into account
13:49:21 [koalie]
... apache's approach is sophisticated
13:49:31 [koalie]
... from the css framework perspective I'm less concerned
13:49:38 [koalie]
... while we're considering the testing question
13:49:46 [koalie]
... if Studio 24 had offered to hand-code everything
13:49:56 [koalie]
... that would be like a similar thing to consider
13:50:04 [koalie]
... we would also be able to changes things
13:50:13 [koalie]
... the code behind apollo is not particularly complicate
13:50:17 [koalie]
s/cate/cated/
13:50:31 [koalie]
... some of the leg work is done and that's what apollo brings
13:50:46 [koalie]
... you could argue testing bootstrap @@
13:50:53 [koalie]
... apollo is closer to that
13:50:56 [koalie]
Simon: true
13:50:59 [fantasai]
s/@@/@@ vs hand-coded website/
13:51:04 [koalie]
q?
13:51:10 [koalie]
Zakim, next item
13:51:10 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Doc and community" taken up [from koalie]
13:51:22 [fantasai]
s/conneg/content negotation/
13:51:38 [koalie]
Vivien: Simon gave answers in that regard already
13:51:41 [fantasai]
s/sophisticated/sophisticated, most CMSes can't do that/
13:51:54 [koalie]
... but comparing with Boopstrat, there's a huge community
13:51:58 [koalie]
... you can find issues and fixes
13:52:00 [Judy]
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13:52:13 [koalie]
... with apollo, we saw the doc but no existing client issues, for example
13:52:20 [koalie]
s/boopstrat/bootstrap/
13:52:39 [koalie]
... are you expecing your clients to use GH as a platform for issues / feedback?
13:52:57 [koalie]
Simon: it's not really a community project the same way bootstrap is
13:53:06 [koalie]
... so far we've not had clients put issues to GH
13:53:08 [jeff]
q+
13:53:12 [fantasai]
s/is done/is done for common patterns/
13:53:13 [koalie]
... they use our support system
13:53:23 [koalie]
... that could change in the future
13:53:26 [jeff]
q-
13:53:32 [koalie]
... so far GH is our code repository
13:54:07 [koalie]
Vivien: One comment Denis made in the systeam call yesterday
13:54:31 [koalie]
... w3c using apollo may increase the exposure on apollo
13:54:49 [koalie]
Simon: of couse we hope to increase exposure but not particularly on apollo
13:55:04 [fantasai]
Wrt maintenance, I hope vivien and others have read https://superfriendlydesign.systems/articles/should-you-use-bootstrap-or-material-design-for-your-design-system/
13:55:07 [koalie]
... since we don't deploy it for others necessarily to use, but it's our tool
13:55:10 [koalie]
q?
13:55:12 [fantasai]
which was linked from the Studio24 doc
13:55:16 [koalie]
Zakim, next item
13:55:16 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Maintenance" taken up [from koalie]
13:55:27 [Jean-Gui]
s/ couse / course /
13:55:36 [koalie]
[Maintenance: What kind of maintenance can we expect after the final version of the website is released and more generally on the long term (to handle issues reported by our users or to use on other pages)]
13:55:49 [koalie]
Simon: that depends on our contract with the client
13:55:58 [koalie]
... we have support contracts with some clients
13:56:37 [koalie]
q?
13:56:54 [koalie]
... if we add things to apollo that you want to use, we'll be happy to let you know and advise you
13:57:10 [koalie]
Zakim, next item
13:57:10 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Deadline" taken up [from koalie]
13:57:15 [koalie]
Zakim, agenda?
13:57:15 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
13:57:16 [Zakim]
8. Deadline [from koalie]
13:57:16 [Zakim]
4. Licensing [from koalie]
13:57:35 [koalie]
Zakim, take up item 4
13:57:35 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Licensing" taken up [from koalie]
13:58:07 [koalie]
Simon: any work we do is licensed to the clients
13:58:13 [koalie]
... apollo is open source
13:58:21 [wseltzer]
s/licensed/transferred/
13:58:26 [koalie]
... built to be reused
13:59:05 [wseltzer]
[sounds good to me]
13:59:07 [koalie]
Zakim, next item
13:59:07 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Deadline" taken up [from koalie]
13:59:16 [wseltzer]
[feel free to ask me if you have license questions]
13:59:25 [koalie]
Vivien: if we were to use a framework different from apollo
13:59:37 [koalie]
... S24 mentioned they'd need more time
13:59:42 [koalie]
... and that might incur delays
13:59:49 [koalie]
... what would be the impact from your pov?
13:59:54 [koalie]
[Richard departs]
14:00:17 [koalie]
Simon: apollo having pre-built things, there would be overhead
14:00:27 [koalie]
... we would deprioritize other work
14:01:26 [Ralph]
Coralie: our timeline says we need to make a decision mid-June
14:01:43 [Bert]
q+
14:01:45 [Ralph]
... can we get back to you next week?
14:01:47 [Ralph]
Simon: yes
14:01:50 [Bert]
q-
14:01:59 [koalie]
ack B
14:02:09 [koalie]
Bert: I see the apollo is written in sass
14:02:16 [koalie]
... that would be a new tech for us to use
14:02:22 [koalie]
... would we have to use sass
14:02:27 [koalie]
Simon: you don't have to
14:02:33 [koalie]
... we'd discuss that
14:02:41 [koalie]
... there are other ways
14:02:48 [Ralph]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sass_(stylesheet_language)
14:02:51 [simonrjones]
thanks for everyone's time and comments, a very useful call.
14:02:56 [koalie]
... we'll take your lead
14:02:57 [koalie]
ack f
14:03:17 [Ralph]
[[
14:03:18 [Ralph]
Sass is a preprocessor scripting language that is interpreted or compiled into Cascading Style Sheets (CSS).
14:03:18 [Ralph]
]]
14:03:24 [koalie]
fantasai: someone said that we want our stylesheets need to be readable and an example
14:03:27 [koalie]
... I concur
14:03:35 [koalie]
... using bootstrap would [mot do that]
14:03:43 [koalie]
... we should turn off css anonymization
14:03:52 [weiler]
s/anonymization/minimization/
14:03:53 [koalie]
... view source
14:03:56 [koalie]
Simon: we agree
14:04:04 [Ralph]
big +1 to making it trivially easy to 'view source'
14:04:26 [vivien]
present+ francois
14:04:29 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
14:04:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/11-redesign-minutes.html koalie
14:04:40 [caribou]
[using something like bootstrap might send the wrong idea that simple css is not manageable]
14:04:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/11-redesign-minutes.html fantasai
14:04:56 [koalie]
<koalie> I concur with caribou's statement
14:05:11 [koalie]
<koalie> and generally with what fantasai said (and Bert, and others)
14:05:15 [koalie]
rrsagent, please draft minutes v2
14:05:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/11-redesign-minutes.html koalie
14:06:25 [koalie]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:16:06 [koalie]
RRSAgent, stop