14:56:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-curricula
14:56:24 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/06/09-wai-curricula-irc
14:57:56 <dmontalvo> Meeting: WAI Curricula Task Force Meeting
14:58:03 <dmontalvo> zakim, clear agenda
14:58:03 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:58:58 <dmontalvo> Agenda+ Putting the keyword at the beginning of the heading. Wouldn't it be going beyond WCAG requirements?
14:59:10 <dmontalvo> Agenda+ Changing topic title. "Contextual Information of Pages" -> "Meta information about a page".
14:59:19 <dmontalvo> Agenda+ Including link to tutorials in "Competencies > Knowledge of" section.
14:59:27 <dmontalvo> Agenda+ Suggestion for students to try out a screen reader or a screen reader emulator.
14:59:40 <dmontalvo> Agenda+ Combining topic "Regions" > Teaching ideas > Bullets 4, 5, and 6 together.
14:59:44 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda?
14:59:44 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:59:45 <Zakim> 1. Putting the keyword at the beginning of the heading. Wouldn't it be going beyond WCAG requirements? [from dmontalvo]
14:59:45 <Zakim> 2. Changing topic title. "Contextual Information of Pages" -> "Meta information about a page". [from dmontalvo]
14:59:45 <Zakim> 3. Including link to tutorials in "Competencies > Knowledge of" section. [from dmontalvo]
14:59:45 <Zakim> 4. Suggestion for students to try out a screen reader or a screen reader emulator. [from dmontalvo]
14:59:49 <Zakim> 5. Combining topic "Regions" > Teaching ideas > Bullets 4, 5, and 6 together. [from dmontalvo]
15:08:03 <shadi> shadi has joined #wai-curricula
15:11:46 <shadi> scribe: shadi
15:11:53 <shadi> agenda?
15:12:15 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next
15:12:15 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Putting the keyword at the beginning of the heading. Wouldn't it be going beyond WCAG requirements?" taken up [from dmontalvo]
15:12:37 <Howard> Howard has joined #wai-curricula
15:13:17 <eoncins_> eoncins_ has joined #wai-curricula
15:13:48 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:13:48 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Changing topic title. "Contextual Information of Pages" -> "Meta information about a page"." taken up [from dmontalvo]
15:14:03 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:14:03 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Putting the keyword at the beginning of the heading. Wouldn't it be going beyond WCAG requirements?" taken up [from dmontalvo]
15:14:04 <dmontalvo> https://wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/developing-accessible-content/page-structure/
15:15:10 <shadi> DM: suggestion of "putting keywords at beginning of headings"
15:15:23 <shadi> ...but is that going beyond WCAG requirements?
15:15:53 <shadi> HK: valid point, so fine with it
15:16:34 <dmontalvo> scribe+
15:17:06 <dmontalvo> Shadi: I would expect this more for content authors.
15:17:28 <dmontalvo> ... IF we start diverging form the context, that could be worrying for these curricula
15:17:33 <dmontalvo> scribe-
15:17:38 <shadi> HK: agree
15:18:16 <shadi> EO: agree, also on going beyond WCAG where it fits well
15:18:26 <shadi> ...leave it to editors' discretion
15:19:11 <shadi> DM: thanks, seems more for the content authors document
15:19:22 <shadi> EO: add as best practice?
15:19:43 <shadi> DM: could consider for "Teaching Ideas"
15:20:16 <shadi> ...but maybe not appropriate for developers
15:21:30 <dmontalvo> scribe+
15:21:48 <dmontalvo> Shadi: My concern is that we may start deviating, if we add this one, why we should not add the other?
15:21:53 <dmontalvo> scribe-
15:22:09 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:22:09 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Changing topic title. "Contextual Information of Pages" -> "Meta information about a page"." taken up [from dmontalvo]
15:22:33 <shadi> DM: suggestion to change title of topic
15:22:52 <shadi> ...from "Contextual Information" to "Meta Information"
15:23:15 <shadi> ...wonder if "Meta Information" is broader than we want?
15:24:00 <shadi> ...tried to have narrower view on the specific aspects needed for orientation and navigation
15:24:43 <shadi> HK: don't feel strongly but did not understand "Contextual"
15:25:47 <dmontalvo> scire+
15:26:16 <dmontalvo> Shadi: Howard is a native speaker, so we need to take this seriously. Meta is also a bit jargony, though technically more accurate.
15:26:19 <dmontalvo> scribe-
15:26:45 <shadi> HK: yes, "Meta" is a little jargony
15:27:24 <dmontalvo> scribe+
15:27:29 <dmontalvo> Shadi: Changing my mind
15:27:31 <dmontalvo> scribe-
15:27:45 <shadi> SAZ: maybe OK to use for developers?
15:27:57 <shadi> ...technically more accurate
15:29:02 <shadi> EO: "Contextual Information" worked well for me
15:29:14 <shadi> ...maybe also more from humanistic sciences
15:30:31 <shadi> SAZ: good points
15:30:43 <shadi> ...maybe pick one approach for now
15:31:00 <shadi> ...and raise it with larger group to confirm if no-one raises it
15:31:57 <shadi> Action: Daniel to choose approach, and mark it for confirmation by larger group
15:32:42 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:32:42 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Including link to tutorials in "Competencies > Knowledge of" section." taken up [from dmontalvo]
15:33:53 <shadi> DM: suggestion to add links to tutorials from competences
15:34:43 <shadi> SAZ: how would that work?
15:35:57 <shadi> DM: for example, where "knowledge of", link to tutorials
15:36:21 <shadi> OC: expect more or less from the students and instructors?
15:36:45 <shadi> DM: level of knowledge is different
15:37:14 <shadi> OC: confuses me
15:37:24 <shadi> ...maybe needs more differentiation
15:37:47 <shadi> HK: in a sense we are teaching them about this
15:38:19 <shadi> ...not sure how much is covered in earlier parts of the curricula
15:40:25 <shadi> SAZ: like these ideas
15:40:34 <shadi> ...think ARIA should drop for students
15:40:43 <shadi> ...this is what they learn here
15:40:57 <shadi> ...link to HTML5 spec sections for students
15:41:09 <shadi> ...and link to Tutorials for instructors
15:41:31 <shadi> ...also change from "experience with" to "applied expertise in" for instructors
15:42:05 <shadi> EO: would also add qualifiers like "basic knowledge" and "advanced knowledge", to help differentiate and emphasize aspects
15:43:00 <shadi> DM: might be good to differentiate level of knowledge
15:43:36 <shadi> ...so hearing that both descriptions are too similar
15:43:40 <shadi> ...will try to add more
15:44:02 <shadi> EO: yes, differentiate expected level of "knowledge" more clearly
15:44:39 <shadi> Action: Daniel to better differentiate different expertise needed for students vs instructors
15:45:17 <shadi> EO: also "experience with" seems ambiguous
15:45:23 <shadi> ...what type of experience
15:45:52 <shadi> DM: trying to differentiate sections
15:47:36 <shadi> SAZ: what terms would work here?
15:47:45 <shadi> ...maybe "Applied Expertise"?
15:47:53 <shadi> EO: could work
15:48:05 <shadi> HK: agree with EO
15:48:11 <shadi> ...what does experience mean?
15:48:17 <shadi> ...worked with somebody?
15:49:10 <shadi> DM: maybe use "Basic knowledge of ..." for students and "Applied expertise in ..." for instructors
15:49:12 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:49:12 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Suggestion for students to try out a screen reader or a screen reader emulator." taken up [from dmontalvo]
15:49:49 <shadi> DM: suggestion for students to try out assistive technologies
15:50:01 <shadi> ...concerned that this could get confusing
15:50:15 <shadi> ...sometimes bad experience if not guided well
15:50:28 <shadi> ...but see the point, and we could add something
15:50:42 <dmontalvo> https://deploy-preview-173--wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/developing-accessible-content/page-structure/
15:51:45 <shadi> DM: took an attempt in this Pull Request
15:52:24 <shadi> ...need to change "use" to "try out" or such
15:52:28 <shadi> ...also added a note
15:54:11 <shadi> SAZ: agree with this
15:54:32 <shadi> ...1. could also use "explore" instead of "try out" but definitely not "use"
15:55:00 <shadi> ...2. note seems far away, maybe needs to be closer?
15:55:20 <shadi> ...3. note seems focused on screen readers only but should apply to most assistive technologies
15:56:14 <shadi> DM: note applies to multiple points, so maybe best to leave there and not repeat?
15:56:17 <shadi> SAZ: works for me
15:56:19 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:56:19 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Combining topic "Regions" > Teaching ideas > Bullets 4, 5, and 6 together." taken up [from dmontalvo]
15:57:52 <shadi> HK: suggestion to combine bullets 4, 5, and 6 of "Teaching Ideas"
15:58:04 <shadi> s/HK/DM
15:58:30 <shadi> HK: think examples of header, footer, and main content really all part of the same page
15:59:00 <shadi> ...lots of real-estate dedicated to these
15:59:14 <shadi> ...we also combine ARIA landmarks
16:00:09 <shadi> EO: don't feel strongly either way
16:03:31 <dmontalvo> scribe+ Maybe combining these specifically, saying "Show examples of different layouts"
16:03:38 <dmontalvo> scribe-
16:03:57 <shadi> SAZ: agree with HK
16:04:10 <shadi> ...not really compelling to show different headers and footers
16:04:21 <shadi> ...maybe different types of page layouts
16:04:38 <shadi> ...and explain the functionality of the different page regions in these layouts
16:04:49 <shadi> DM: sounds good
16:05:21 <shadi> DM: will update this, and put next modules on a survey
16:36:57 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes v2
16:36:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/09-wai-curricula-minutes.html dmontalvo
17:23:27 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, bye
17:23:56 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, make logs public
17:24:09 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, bye
17:24:09 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2020/06/09-wai-curricula-actions.rdf :
17:24:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Daniel to choose approach, and mark it for confirmation by larger group [1]
17:24:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2020/06/09-wai-curricula-irc#T15-31-57
17:24:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Daniel to better differentiate different expertise needed for students vs instructors [2]
17:24:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2020/06/09-wai-curricula-irc#T15-44-39