14:00:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pwe
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14:00:48 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:00:49 <Zakim> Meeting: Positive Work Environment CG
14:01:11 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pwe/2020Jun/0000.html
14:02:13 <Ralph> present: Tzviya, Jeff, Ralph
14:03:30 <nigel> nigel has joined #pwe
14:03:45 <Ralph> present+ Jory, Judy
14:03:59 <tzviya> Agenda+ Translations of CEPC [2}
14:03:59 <tzviya> Agenda+ Training plans (Jory)
14:03:59 <tzviya> Agenda+ Ombudsperson planning
14:03:59 <tzviya> Agenda+ AOB
14:04:24 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/05/05-pwe-minutes.html previous 05-May
14:04:49 <Ralph> zakim, next item
14:04:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Translations of CEPC [2}" taken up [from tzviya]
14:05:04 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF/issues/138
14:05:07 <Judy> Judy has joined #pwe
14:05:27 <Ralph> Tzviya: ^^ Mechanism for translations #138
14:05:44 <Ralph> ... An Qi and Coralie have been working on translations
14:05:53 <Ralph> ... Naomi might be working on Japanese
14:06:09 <jeff> q+ to comment on the nuance
14:06:20 <Ralph> ... there are a lot of nuances in the content and we want to be sure that anyone who volunteers can capture those nuances
14:06:33 <Ralph> ... An Qi was talking with someone about Spanish
14:06:42 <Ralph> ... we were thinking German and @@ as well
14:07:01 <Ralph> Jory: Bocoup team members would probably be happy to do Spanish and Portugese
14:07:05 <Ralph> s/@@/Portugese
14:07:05 <tzviya> s/@@/Portuguese
14:07:07 <tzviya> q?
14:07:10 <tzviya> ack jeff
14:07:10 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to comment on the nuance
14:07:17 <Judy> q+
14:07:26 <Ralph> Jeff: appreciate the care due to the nuances involved
14:07:51 <Ralph> ... do we need a disclaimer that the English version is the normative version and the translated versions are provided for convenience?
14:07:56 <Ralph> Tzviya: interesting pont
14:08:01 <Ralph> s/pont/point/
14:08:03 <Judy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/about/translating/
14:08:09 <Ralph> ... I'd maybe ask Wendy Seltzer
14:08:16 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:08:20 <Ralph> Judy: we do a lot to support translations of WAI documents
14:08:37 <Ralph> ... Shawn has produced a resource ^^ to help with that, including nuances
14:09:03 <Ralph> ... w.r.t. describing the English version as the normative one, that is our policy across W3C
14:09:10 <Ralph> ... so I don't think we need to ask Wendy
14:09:39 <Ralph> ... we could reach out in the language community to get multiple people to check a translation
14:10:33 <Ralph> ... one of the things under development is to make a subset of glossary terms that may be more nuanced to translate
14:10:56 <Ralph> Tzviya: and concepts, such as Ombudsperson, that may not be present in some cultures
14:11:17 <Ralph> zakim, next item
14:11:17 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Training plans (Jory)" taken up [from tzviya]
14:11:33 <Ralph> Jory: prefer to put this off to a future meeting
14:13:11 <Ralph> zakim, next item
14:13:11 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Ombudsperson planning" taken up [from tzviya]
14:13:15 <Judy> q+
14:13:22 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:13:38 <Ralph> Judy: Ralph and I managed to meet briefly about this
14:14:04 <Ralph> ... we went over what we want to try to get out of discussions with the MIT Ombuds program and the MIT IDHR office
14:14:18 <Ralph> ... we have a bit of new information from MIT's legal counsel on what they do and do not want to be involved in
14:14:41 <Ralph> ... there are instances where they will get involved where MIT staff are involved
14:14:49 <Ralph> ... we have a list of things we want to discuss with them
14:15:08 <Ralph> ... we'll get those emails out to those offices soon
14:15:28 <Ralph> ... I'll keep this moving
14:15:36 <Ralph> ... we have a lot to do to get the policy fully working
14:15:44 <Ralph> ... for the safety of the people in the organizaton
14:15:50 <Ralph> s/aton/ation/
14:15:58 <Ralph> ... we have a lot of training work to do
14:16:22 <Ralph> Tzviya: is the goal to make use of the MIT Ombuds or to learn from them to establish our own program?
14:16:35 <Ralph> Judy: definitely the latter but to some extend the former
14:16:56 <Ralph> ... we may not have resources to establish our own before the Legal Entity
14:17:35 <Ralph> .... the main thing would be to get advice from them and be able to start our own program
14:17:49 <Ralph> Tzviya: yes; I'd expect that using MIT resources would be a stop gap
14:18:00 <Ralph> ... in PWE I'd like us to build a roadmap for our program
14:18:11 <Judy> q+
14:18:15 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:18:19 <Ralph> ... I liked the philosophy of the IDHR approach
14:18:28 <Ralph> Judy: +1 to a roadmap; I'd be happy to help
14:18:49 <Ralph> ... one of the challenges W3C has had is indicating where to go for what, even though we've posted Ombuds contacts
14:19:14 <Ralph> ... for MIT employees, it could still be that the MIT Ombuds Office is still the correct place to go
14:19:25 <Ralph> Tzviya: yes
14:19:27 <Judy> q+
14:19:32 <jeff> q+
14:19:52 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:20:05 <Ralph> Judy: w.r.t. IDHR, I'm getting a bit of a view on how they work
14:20:46 <Ralph> ... it's bringing back some previous concerns I've had about the time cycles
14:21:06 <tzviya> ack jeff
14:21:36 <Ralph> Jeff: Tzviya mentioned that the current process isn't working for certain cases
14:21:50 <Ralph> ... can we categorize those cases where it isn't working?
14:22:20 <Ralph> ... one case is concern that all the ombuds are members of the W3C senior team
14:22:31 <Ralph> ... maybe we can identify the pieces that are highest priority
14:22:57 <Ralph> ... e.g. maybe get a non-Team member or a non-senior Team member
14:23:53 <Ralph> ... maybe there are some big winners that we can do faster
14:24:15 <Ralph> Judy: people ask 3 questions when they look at the list of Ombuds:
14:24:24 <Ralph> ... have they had vetting?
14:24:30 <Ralph> ... have they had training?
14:24:36 <Ralph> ... do they have procedures to work from?
14:25:21 <Ralph> ... particularly in the case of harassment; has the ombuds had training in sensitive handling of the issue?
14:25:26 <jeff> q+
14:26:30 <Ralph> Tzviya: sometimes people are first looking for a sounding board
14:26:38 <Ralph> ... to ask "will I be believed?"
14:27:55 <Ralph> ... Jory's training is one small step
14:28:02 <Ralph> Jory: multiple training components
14:28:08 <Ralph> ... conflict de-escalation
14:28:10 <Ralph> ... @@
14:28:13 <tzviya> ack jeff
14:28:19 <Ralph> ... what it means to be an Ombudsperson
14:29:10 <Ralph> Jeff: we could build a plan for those three modules
14:29:39 <Ralph> ... several years ago I required the entire Team to take sexual harassment training
14:29:51 <Judy> q+
14:30:03 <tzviya> ack r
14:30:03 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to ask Jory to repeat #2
14:30:11 <Ralph> ... identify some low-hanging fruit that we could do quickly
14:30:37 <Ralph> s/@@/training on the CEPC itself
14:30:50 <tzviya> ack Judy
14:31:21 <Ralph> Judy: Tzviya's roadmap may be the most important thing
14:31:50 <Ralph> ... get the current Ombuds more training on specific issues
14:32:10 <Ralph> ... we still don't have the investigational piece; we may need that as a separate resource
14:32:20 <jeff> q+ to ask about "the investigational piece"
14:32:39 <tzviya> q+
14:32:47 <Ralph> ... training on sexual harassment is a missing piece
14:33:04 <Ralph> ... I'd be eager to work with Tzviya on a roadmap
14:33:05 <tzviya> ack je
14:33:05 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to ask about "the investigational piece"
14:33:26 <Ralph> Jeff: to what is "the investigational piece" referring?
14:34:35 <Ralph> Judy: there may be cases where someone needs to actually research what happened; that's a heavy lift for the Ombuds
14:34:44 <jeff> q+ to push back on outside investigations
14:35:04 <tzviya> ack jeff
14:35:04 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to push back on outside investigations
14:35:50 <Ralph> Jeff: it's reasonable to explore that, but once W3C opens up the possibility of hiring outside investigators in a community of > 10k people
14:36:00 <Ralph> ... we couldn't possibly afford that in every case
14:36:14 <Ralph> ... we'd need to very carefully circumscribe those cases where we go outside and those where we don't
14:36:23 <Ralph> ... that will be challenging
14:36:51 <Judy> q+
14:36:52 <Ralph> ... and why I'm looking for low-hanging fruit, as it may take years to figure out how to afford [outside investigators]
14:37:44 <tzviya> ack ju
14:39:11 <Ralph> Judy: identifying this as a resource that might be needed should not be equated with believing there will be a flood of need
14:39:49 <Ralph> ... there's a way to get a range of options
14:40:36 <jeff> q+ to comment on "ombudspeople as a sounding board who don't necessarily do anything"
14:40:39 <Ralph> ... when Tzviya and I met with the IOA representative, one of the things we noted was that the Ombuds is a sounding board and doesn't necessarily do more
14:40:47 <Ralph> Tzviya: the next step is a roadmap
14:40:53 <Ralph> ... Judy and I will work on that
14:42:42 <tzviya> ack me
14:42:45 <tzviya> ack je
14:42:45 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to comment on "ombudspeople as a sounding board who don't necessarily do anything"
14:43:09 <Ralph> Jeff: re: ombuds as sounding board ...
14:43:23 <tzviya> q+
14:43:25 <Ralph> .... I'd be interested in those cases where the Ombuds is supposed to be only a sounding board
14:44:27 <tzviya> ack me
14:44:40 <Ralph> ... teasing out when action is expected and when it is not is something that can be on our list
14:44:48 <Judy> q+
14:45:26 <tzviya> ack ju
14:45:45 <Ralph> Tzviya: though the IOA's position is that, we do not want the W3C Ombuds to be only a sounding board
14:46:40 <Ralph> Judy: for a large institution formal ombuds role, the ombuds hears the issue, advises the individual on what their options are
14:47:01 <Ralph> ... also they can look for patterns and help the organization evolve to address those better
14:47:23 <Ralph> ... sometimes the ombudsperson will be a change agent for the organization as a whole
14:47:47 <Ralph> ... the mediation role that some W3C Ombuds have been doing is probably an important one for W3C
14:48:07 <Ralph> ... we need clear explanations of what people can expect them to do
14:48:20 <Ralph> Tzviya: I'll schedule time with Judy to talk about this roadmap
14:48:47 <Ralph> zakim, next item
14:48:47 <Zakim> agendum 4. "AOB" taken up [from tzviya]
14:49:50 <Ralph> Tzviya: the AB had expressed apologies
14:50:53 <Ralph> Jeff: that might be done best in email
14:51:17 <Ralph> s/the AB/several individuals in the AB/
14:51:54 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pwe
14:54:33 <Ralph> Tzviya: as of now our next call is scheduled for 16 June
14:54:50 <Ralph> ... we might cancel that and wait to 30 June
14:55:01 <Ralph> Judy: I lean to keep us moving
14:55:48 <Ralph> chair: Tzviya
14:55:52 <Ralph> [adjourned]
14:55:56 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
14:55:56 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Tzviya, Jeff, Ralph, Jory, Judy
14:55:58 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
14:55:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/06/02-pwe-minutes.html Zakim
14:56:01 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:56:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwe
14:57:15 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
14:57:15 <RRSAgent> I see no action items