15:51:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbg
15:51:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/05/26-pbg-irc
15:51:53 <dauwhe> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telecon
15:52:18 <dauwhe> Chair: Liisa
15:53:25 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2020May/0004.html
15:56:24 <Daihei> Daihei has joined #pbg
15:56:27 <Leslie> Leslie has joined #pbg
15:56:39 <Daihei> present+
15:57:52 <ivan> present+
15:58:17 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
15:58:53 <Ralph> present+
15:59:08 <Ralph> present+ Angela_Doll
15:59:18 <Ralph> present+ Leslie_Hulse
15:59:33 <Ralph> present+ Avneesh_Singh
15:59:45 <Ralph> present+ Liisa_McCloy-Kelley
15:59:54 <Ralph> present+ Tzviya_Siegman
15:59:57 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
15:59:58 <liisamk> present+
16:00:06 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #pbg
16:00:23 <Ralph> present+ Daihei_Shiohama
16:00:29 <Makoto> present+
16:00:44 <Makoto> I'm afraid that I do not have the Zoom link.  Could somebody send it to me?
16:00:47 <tzviya> present+
16:00:51 <melaniebw> melaniebw has joined #pbg
16:01:02 <Ralph> /me Makoto, see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2020Apr/0003.html
16:01:19 <Ralph> s|/me Makoto, see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2020Apr/0003.html||
16:01:26 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pbg
16:01:39 <wendyreid> present+
16:01:54 <Makoto> Thanks!
16:02:00 <Ralph> present+ Jonathan_Greenberg
16:02:21 <dauwhe> present+
16:02:30 <Ralph> zakim, who's on the call?
16:02:30 <Zakim> Present: Daihei, ivan, wolfgang, Ralph, Angela_Doll, Leslie_Hulse, Avneesh_Singh, Liisa_McCloy-Kelley, Tzviya_Siegman, liisamk, Daihei_Shiohama, Makoto, tzviya, wendyreid,
16:02:33 <Zakim> ... Jonathan_Greenberg, dauwhe
16:02:43 <Ralph> present_ Melanie_Bockmann
16:02:53 <Ralph> s/present_ Melanie_Bockmann//
16:02:56 <Ralph> present+ Melanie_Bockmann
16:03:00 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbg
16:04:11 <Jonathan> Jonathan has joined #pbg
16:04:13 <liisamk> Zakim, pick a victim
16:04:13 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose tzviya
16:04:30 <liisamk> Zakim, pick a victim
16:04:31 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dauwhe
16:04:53 <dauwhe> scribe+ dauwhe
16:05:22 <Ralph> present+ Jeff
16:06:01 <jeff_> jeff_ has joined #pbg
16:06:11 <dauwhe> liisamk: Topic: EPUB 3 WG Charter
16:06:20 <jeff_> present+ jeff
16:06:23 <dauwhe> wendyreid: the charter is going well
16:06:34 <dauwhe> ... we've resolved quite a few issues
16:06:45 <dauwhe> ... we have an open PR we can close today, about a11y
16:06:50 <ivan> -> https://w3c.github.io/epub-3-wg-charter/ current charter proposal
16:06:59 <laurent> laurent has joined #pbg
16:07:09 <dauwhe> ... the charter's in good shape
16:07:22 <dauwhe> ... we still don't have much feedback from other publishers
16:07:25 <ivan> q+
16:07:25 <dauwhe> q+
16:07:36 <ivan> -> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/pull/47.html PR version of the charter waiting for a merge
16:07:37 <dauwhe> ... we'd still like feedback
16:07:42 <liisamk> ack ivan
16:07:57 <dauwhe> ivan: I have put the reference to the charter text and the PR in IRC
16:08:19 <dauwhe> ... makoto had a question, but dauwhe and I answered
16:08:27 <Avneesh> present+
16:08:35 <dauwhe> ... about timing, I did a PR
16:08:39 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/pull/47 pull #47; EPUB A11y improvements
16:08:47 <dauwhe> ... which moved the starting time to September rather than July
16:09:01 <jeff_> q+
16:09:07 <dauwhe> ... I had asked WendyS how much time it would take to go through W3M
16:09:16 <dauwhe> ... missing comments from outside Japan is a problem
16:09:27 <dauwhe> ... the charter has been out there for review for two months now
16:09:41 <dauwhe> ... so I think we should go ahead with the AC vote
16:09:57 <dauwhe> ... knowing that if we don't get enough positive votes from the AC, the WG won't happen
16:10:13 <wendyreid> scribe+
16:10:19 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
16:10:32 <ivan> q+
16:10:33 <wendyreid> dauwhe: I just wanted to remind everyone that Cristina did post several issues
16:10:49 <wendyreid> ... I don't know if Cristina is happy with the responses we've provided
16:10:59 <liisamk> ack jeff
16:11:02 <dauwhe> jeff_: for new WGs on 9/1
16:11:11 <dauwhe> ... there's a question about participating in TPAC
16:11:15 <dauwhe> q+
16:11:19 <Avneesh> q+
16:11:34 <dauwhe> ... I wonder what the chairs think about that question
16:11:46 <dauwhe> ... and if they plan to have meetings with other groups
16:12:00 <dauwhe> wendyreid: we do plan on having a meeting
16:12:19 <dauwhe> ... meeting with A11y guidelines WG is certainly in order, maybe other ones
16:12:21 <dauwhe> q?
16:12:27 <liisamk> ack ivan
16:12:38 <dauwhe> ivan: the charter already includes a reference to TPAC
16:12:43 <dauwhe> ... as part of the planning
16:12:50 <dauwhe> ... that was discussed with the chairs
16:13:09 <dauwhe> jeff_: not to have in the charter, but the information is necessary for the meeting planners
16:13:33 <tzviya> q+ to comment on tpac meetings
16:13:35 <dauwhe> ivan: for the comment of Dave on Cristina, I agree she should say yes or no before we go to the AC
16:13:55 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbg
16:14:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> present +
16:14:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> Sorry to be late.
16:14:07 <dauwhe> ... one thing that came up is that there were several issues discussed where agreement was these are things the WG should discuss, but shouldn't change the charter text itself
16:14:22 <dauwhe> ... so I set up a label in the repo, to leave the issues open for the WG
16:14:31 <dauwhe> ... and the chairs will look up those issues
16:14:43 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
16:14:47 <julieblair> julieblair has joined #pbg
16:14:50 <wendyreid> dauwhe: Jeff I did reply to the questionnaire
16:14:55 <julieblair> present+
16:15:05 <wendyreid> ... the information is provided to  the meeting planners
16:15:06 <liisamk> ack Avneesh
16:15:14 <dauwhe> Avneesh: responding to Dave's and Ivan's q about cristina
16:15:30 <dauwhe> ... we have been having those discussions, and I think most of those issues are resolved
16:15:44 <dauwhe> ... people are expecting the WG to take over many a11y things
16:15:49 <dauwhe> ... which isn't possible
16:15:58 <dauwhe> ... and most of this work is already happening in other peoples
16:16:00 <tzviya> q-
16:16:12 <dauwhe> ... we're already working with agwg on page numbers, etc
16:16:25 <dauwhe> ... a lot of things are already in progress, it would be good to clarify
16:16:30 <dauwhe> ivan: I think the current text is oK
16:16:51 <dauwhe> ... we say there are open issues, we give examples, we have liasons...
16:17:09 <dauwhe> ... what you mention should be part of the early planning phase of the WG
16:17:30 <dauwhe> ... but shouldn't be in the charter
16:17:53 <Ralph> present+ Cristina
16:17:56 <dauwhe> liisamk: we were just talking about the charter, and have the issues you raised been resolved?
16:18:11 <dauwhe> Cristina: are you speaking abiout a11y act, or in general?
16:18:20 <dauwhe> ... I think it's fine now
16:18:24 <dauwhe> ivan: thanks
16:18:30 <dauwhe> q?
16:18:40 <dauwhe> Topic: update on the future of the CG(s)
16:18:40 <tzviya> q+
16:18:49 <liisamk> ack Ralph
16:18:59 <dauwhe> Ralph: I have the action to work on the infrastructure and technical details
16:19:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
16:19:09 <dauwhe> ... we have a plan; I have to grease the wheels to make it happen
16:19:16 <dauwhe> liisamk: what's the plan?
16:19:27 <dauwhe> Ralph: the intention to merge the PCG and EPUB 3 CG
16:19:40 <dauwhe> ... and call the merged group PCG
16:20:05 <dauwhe> ... the tricky bit is we want the mailing list to be the current mailing list of EPUB 3 CG
16:20:14 <dauwhe> ... that's the part that's causing the stickiness
16:20:40 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:20:47 <dauwhe> tzviya: I've been in touch with mateus and Jeff to get things off the ground
16:20:54 <dauwhe> ... Mateus has been swamped by his day job
16:21:09 <dauwhe> ... I'll have a call with him in the next week or two
16:21:28 <dauwhe> liisamk: anything else about the CG?
16:21:35 <dauwhe> Ralph: I better get the mailing list sorted out :)
16:21:49 <dauwhe> Topic: EU A11y
16:22:09 <dauwhe> Cristina: with Avneesh addition we may have solved what we discussed in the last call
16:22:28 <dauwhe> ... there were comments today about oNIx and schema that might be included in the spec rather than charter
16:22:46 <dauwhe> ... they may be separate standard related to EAA
16:23:07 <dauwhe> ... I don't think we need to be explicit about metadata standard in charter, but could be in the specifications
16:23:26 <dauwhe> ... and needs to be defined at European level
16:23:29 <jeff_> q+
16:23:40 <liisamk> ack jeff
16:23:59 <dauwhe> jeff_: the way i understood that, you thought there would be value in addressing metadata in EPUB 3 WG
16:24:00 <dauwhe> q+
16:24:01 <Makoto> I won' argue this time.  I plan to argue when a new major version of EPUB A11Y is to be created.
16:24:02 <Avneesh> q+
16:24:09 <dauwhe> Cristina: yes, I think so
16:24:15 <tzviya> q+ to respond to jeff
16:24:44 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
16:25:03 <wendyreid> dauwhe: The EPUB 3 charter doesn't mention ONIX because it is a separate standard, it is out of scope
16:25:22 <dauwhe> ... when we say in the charter that the spec should meet the needs of EAA, but we don't need to be specific about
16:25:32 <wendyreid> ... we can mention how to point to ONIX records, but it is not the responsibility of the WG, and doesn't need to be mentioned in the charter
16:25:34 <tzviya> +1 dauwhe
16:26:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 re metadata strategy
16:26:21 <jeff_> [Just to be clear, I was not pushing for including Metadata in the WG; I was only suggesting that if Cristina wanted it in the WG, it should be in the Charter.]
16:26:21 <liisamk> q+
16:26:24 <wendyreid> ... we run into trouble trying to define our own custom metadata schemes, we rely on external vocabs for everything aside from the small amount of desciptive metadata
16:26:26 <tzviya> q-
16:26:33 <liisamk> ack Avneesh
16:26:33 <wendyreid> ... I hope we continue to learn from experience
16:26:33 <dauwhe> Avneesh: +1 to Dave and Cristina
16:26:39 <dauwhe> ... metadata is independent
16:26:54 <wendyreid> +1 dauwhe as usual :)
16:26:55 <dauwhe> ... we only added things that weren't in ONIX and schema to fill gaps
16:27:07 <dauwhe> ... and we don't have time to harmonize things in the timeline of our work
16:27:26 <dauwhe> liisamk: I agree that metadata in epub needs to be minimal, but it needs to be there for reading system to interpret the file
16:27:39 <dauwhe> ... and then there's something about telling the reading world what to expect from that content
16:27:41 <dauwhe> q?
16:27:44 <dauwhe> ack lii
16:27:45 <liisamk> ack liisa
16:27:57 <dauwhe> Cristina: any other comments about a11y part?
16:28:09 <dauwhe> Avneesh: what you said is good; I think we're OK for the charter
16:28:20 <dauwhe> Cristina: I think the timeline we proposed is fine for EAA
16:28:39 <Bill_Kasdorf> just pointing out that Onix is mainly for the retail trade book supply chain; it is less important and sometimes not even used in scholarly and higher ed publishing
16:28:39 <dauwhe> ... we need to follow step-by-step what will happen. We can't define everything in detail right now
16:28:48 <dauwhe> liisamk: could you give the group an explainer on the timeline?
16:29:16 <dauwhe> cristina: there's a milestone in June next year, where they decide which type of standard they will use for EAA
16:29:31 <dauwhe> ... it's best to have something for them; this is the important timeline
16:29:57 <dauwhe> ... everything else depends on w3c process
16:30:15 <dauwhe> ... but we do want to have a doc for EAA that also complies with w3c process at that time
16:30:22 <dauwhe> ... first timeline is summer 2021
16:30:47 <dauwhe> Topic: survey
16:31:07 <dauwhe> wendyreid: let me send some links...
16:31:14 <wendyreid> https://drive.google.com/open?id=11KjkTzyuOeDLlCiAccQYSJ5J-vNHJ_s2U3r4ws1FPLA
16:31:20 <dauwhe> ... yesterday I posted the blog post on the w3c blog
16:31:27 <dauwhe> ... feel free to share
16:31:28 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/blog/2020/05/publishingw3c-epub-survey-results/
16:31:35 <dauwhe> ... I don't have access to p@w3c twitter
16:31:39 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/blog/2020/05/publishingw3c-epub-survey-results/
16:31:48 <dauwhe> ... we sent out links, got a lot of attention
16:32:02 <dauwhe> ... I'll let everyone read the blog post and the slides
16:32:17 <dauwhe> ... it looks like a big success
16:32:40 <jeff_> PBG++ Great survey
16:32:45 <jeff_> Wendy++ Great summary
16:32:45 <dauwhe> liisamk: Laurent has asked Cristina, Daihei, and I to give a preso at the DPUB summit on Tuesday, June 2 at 5:30PM CET
16:33:14 <dauwhe> ... and we've been thinking that we need to put together an executive summary, which could be shared with management
16:33:15 <tzviya> q+
16:33:23 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:33:34 <dauwhe> tzviya: I think that the slide deck is in good shape for an exec summary
16:33:41 <dauwhe> tick tock tick tock tick tock
16:34:04 <dauwhe> tzviya: you can flip through quickly, and the blog post is also a good summary. I don't think we need a shorter version.
16:34:09 <dauwhe> tick tock tick tock
16:34:58 <dauwhe> liisamk: I disagree, because I could not pass that deck to my boss
16:35:02 <dauwhe> ... even the blog post is too much
16:35:09 <dauwhe> ... I might do this for myself, and I can share
16:35:21 <Daihei> q+
16:35:32 <dauwhe> Cristina: I was thinking that the executive summary would be more management oriented
16:35:33 <jeff_> q+
16:35:44 <dauwhe> ... describing the need of the new charter and less technical
16:36:08 <dauwhe> ... we need a different point of view
16:36:10 <liisamk> ack Daihei
16:36:19 <dauwhe> Daihei: I agree with christina
16:36:47 <dauwhe> ... we need an executive summary to all the business executives, so we can raise their interest in the epub activities
16:36:56 <dauwhe> ... and can lead to their joining the WG and CG
16:37:05 <tzviya> q+ to ask what the purpose of the blog post was
16:37:14 <dauwhe> ... for Japan, I'm intending to translate this exec summary into japanese, and also send to Taiwan
16:37:25 <dauwhe> ... the whole purpose is to get their attention
16:37:44 <dauwhe> ... I want the precious and important information to be shared
16:37:45 <liisamk> ack jeff
16:38:12 <dauwhe> jeff_: did we schedule a meeting with the 250 participants to thank them for participating, sharing the right level of summary
16:38:29 <dauwhe> ... and to tell them how impactful their input has been in their going-forward strategy?
16:38:41 <dauwhe> liisamk: we don't have everyone's emails
16:38:53 <dauwhe> ... when we talked about next steps
16:39:10 <dauwhe> ... we wanted to give a high level, medium level, blog post...
16:39:16 <dauwhe> ... and the need for new work
16:39:34 <dauwhe> ... but we also want to talk to this group for the folks who wanted to continue to have a conversation
16:39:40 <dauwhe> ... we could have call-in workshops
16:39:47 <dauwhe> ... as follow-up
16:39:54 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:39:54 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask what the purpose of the blog post was
16:40:02 <dauwhe> tzviya: the SC has been talking about a webinar to thank and inform
16:40:14 <dauwhe> ... we'll talk about it on Friday
16:40:30 <dauwhe> ... the blog post does a pretty good job, it goes into a lot of detail
16:41:23 <dauwhe> ... we can't ask volunteers to write too many versions of the same content; we all did have the ability to review the blog post
16:41:58 <dauwhe> Topic: EPUB reading system bug github repo
16:42:04 <dauwhe> liisamk: we have one bug so far
16:42:20 <dauwhe> ... my team is working on adding more; we have some tech difficulties
16:42:31 <dauwhe> ... how do we want to promote this? do others have bugs?
16:42:42 <tzviya> q+
16:42:49 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:42:56 <dauwhe> tzviya: a lot of us are familiar with #eprdctn
16:43:02 <dauwhe> ... on twitter
16:43:07 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/epub-rs-bugs Repository for EPUB 3 Reading Systems bugs
16:43:07 <dauwhe> ... it's a good place to start
16:43:13 <dauwhe> ... some RS people hang out there, too
16:43:38 <dauwhe> ... maybe wendy, jeff, Garth, Brady, and Kindle can participate
16:43:49 <dauwhe> liisamk: Kindle is happy about this and is paying attention
16:44:03 <dauwhe> tzviya: we hope people from RSs will comment
16:44:08 <dauwhe> ... we should tweet about this
16:45:06 <dauwhe> liisamk: we had proposed a couple of months ago that we would have guests at our meetings
16:45:17 <dauwhe> ... laurent was our first, talking about Thorium
16:45:24 <dauwhe> ... so what do we do next?
16:45:36 <dauwhe> ... what would be helpful to the group. Thoughts?
16:45:56 <dauwhe> Cristina: we want to define what kinds of presentations we want to hear
16:46:00 <dauwhe> ... not only marketing
16:46:06 <Daihei> q+
16:46:13 <dauwhe> ... we need to say what fits and what doesn't
16:46:32 <dauwhe> ... we need a clear idea what should be presented, and what shouldn't
16:46:55 <liisamk> ack Daihei
16:47:18 <dauwhe> Daihei: I would like to invite people to the PBG conference as guest speaker to stimulate interest of the publishing industry
16:47:32 <dauwhe> ... and that's relating to something happening around the web and in the various w3c groups
16:47:53 <dauwhe> ... which are doing things around digital media, which is close to digital publishing, like in the media and publishing group
16:48:13 <dauwhe> ... I would like to have people from CG talk about incubation opportunities
16:48:28 <dauwhe> ... and people from w3c other groups to talk about what they are seeking from p@w3c
16:48:40 <dauwhe> ... so we can have exchange and know what's happening in the web world
16:48:43 <tzviya> q+
16:48:49 <dauwhe> ... instead of guest speaker to market their services
16:49:01 <dauwhe> ... PBG should find the business interests in publishing and close to publishing
16:49:12 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:49:14 <dauwhe> tzviya: that's an interesting idea
16:49:29 <dauwhe> ... a lot of W3C folks work on incubation and what's coming next in w3c
16:49:52 <dauwhe> ... are you interested in someone like WendyS who's in charge of strategy and what's next for all w3c
16:49:54 <Daihei> q+
16:50:00 <dauwhe> ... or people from things like WebXR CG
16:50:12 <dauwhe> ... or people from WICG which does a lot of different things?
16:50:17 <dauwhe> ... we don't need an answer today
16:50:23 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
16:50:28 <dauwhe> Daihei: exactly, that's what I'm looking for
16:50:29 <liisamk> ack daihei
16:50:35 <dauwhe> ... and WOT
16:50:49 <dauwhe> ... device side or lifestyle side and content side go hand-in-hand
16:51:00 <dauwhe> ... we need to set the priority list, the chairs could work on that
16:51:02 <Ralph> [I suspect we could sort the WGs, IGs, and CGs according to their potential to be of interest to Publishing@W3C]
16:51:14 <dauwhe> ... we want to expand our reach to those groups
16:51:37 <dauwhe> liisamk: any other thoughts about guests for our meetings?
16:51:37 <tzviya> ack me
16:51:46 <liisamk> ack Ralph
16:51:49 <dauwhe> Ralph: great idea, Daihei
16:52:19 <dauwhe> ... the breadth of things w3c is working on and thinking about working on; we could sort things according to their likelyhood of interest to publishig
16:52:33 <dauwhe> ... I can work with you to sort that list
16:52:50 <dauwhe> Topic: meeting schedule
16:53:03 <liisamk> * June 9th/10th  NA/Asia * June 23rd NA/Europe
16:53:09 <liisamk> * July 7th/8th NA/Asia * July 21st NA/Europe
16:53:16 <liisamk> * August 4th/5th NA/Asia * August 18th NA/Europe
16:53:25 <Daihei> q+
16:53:34 <dauwhe> liisamk: scheduling is easier because we're not scheduling around conferences
16:53:39 <liisamk> ack Daihei
16:53:42 <dauwhe> Daihei: speaking of schedule
16:53:54 <dauwhe> ... tonight at 11pm PDT
16:54:07 <dauwhe> ... there's a w3c japanese member conference starting at 2pm jst
16:54:17 <dauwhe> ... I will talk about digital publishing plus
16:54:35 <dauwhe> ... for 20min starting at 3PM JST
16:54:42 <dauwhe> ... done in Japanese
16:55:07 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/05/27-jp-meeting/ W3C Japanese member meeting
16:55:08 <dauwhe> ... a lot of people from other groups will talk about WOT, XR, etc
16:55:30 <Guillian_H> Guillian_H has joined #pbg
16:55:32 <dauwhe> liisamk: can I share possible good news?
16:55:58 <dauwhe> ... last week I found that our friends at Kindle intend for FXL books to have two covers
16:56:22 <dauwhe> ... so we can one EPUB to rule them all for kid's picture books :)
16:56:32 <dauwhe> ivan: it would be nice to have them in the WG
16:57:39 <dauwhe> q+
16:57:53 <liisamk> ack dauwhe
16:59:50 <dauwhe> liisamk: thanks everyone
17:00:16 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
17:00:16 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Daihei, ivan, wolfgang, Ralph, Angela_Doll, Leslie_Hulse, Avneesh_Singh, Liisa_McCloy-Kelley, Tzviya_Siegman, liisamk, Daihei_Shiohama,
17:00:19 <Zakim> ... Makoto, tzviya, wendyreid, Jonathan_Greenberg, dauwhe, Melanie_Bockmann, Jeff, Avneesh, julieblair, Cristina, Bill_Kasdorf
17:00:19 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
17:00:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/05/26-pbg-minutes.html Zakim
17:00:21 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:00:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
17:01:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/05/26-pbg-minutes.html Ralph
17:01:57 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
17:01:57 <RRSAgent> I see no action items