14:35:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
14:35:52 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-pbgsc-irc
14:35:54 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:35:55 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee
14:36:08 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee Telco
14:36:08 <ivan> Chair:  ralph
14:36:08 <ivan> Date: 2020-05-15
14:36:08 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/mid/7d5c6993-7524-f115-98c6-59add04256fc@w3.org
14:36:08 <ivan> Regrets+ BillK, daihei
14:52:08 <Ralph> agenda+ Key items from this week's (Japan-time) Business Group discussion
14:52:08 <Ralph> agenda+ EPUBCheck fund raising status
14:52:08 <Ralph> agenda+ Deltour family support
14:52:09 <Ralph> agenda+ EPUB Accessiblity work
14:52:09 <Ralph> agenda+ Next steps for Sync Media
14:52:09 <Ralph> agenda+ Continue idea sharing for Publishing Community webinar
14:53:15 <George> George has joined #pbgsc
14:55:51 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/05/01-pbgsc-minutes.html previous 01-May
14:58:42 <George> present+
15:00:02 <Ralph> present+
15:00:03 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pbgsc
15:00:13 <Ralph> present+ Ivan, George, Avneesh
15:00:31 <wendyreid> present+
15:00:50 <dauwhe> present+
15:01:20 <jeff> jeff has joined #pbgsc
15:01:26 <tzviya> present+
15:02:18 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbgsc
15:04:53 <mateus> mateus has joined #pbgsc
15:05:00 <mateus> present_
15:05:02 <mateus> present+
15:05:26 <Ralph> agenda?
15:05:34 <dauwhe> scribe+ dauwhe
15:05:41 <Ralph> zakim, next item
15:05:41 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Key items from this week's (Japan-time) Business Group discussion" taken up [from Ralph]
15:05:50 <Avneesh> present+
15:06:04 <dauwhe> Ralph: anything from the PBG meeting on Tuesday?
15:06:27 <Ralph> zakim, next item
15:06:27 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, Ralph
15:06:32 <Ralph> zakim, close this item
15:06:32 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
15:06:33 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:06:33 <Zakim> 2. EPUBCheck fund raising status [from Ralph]
15:06:33 <Ralph> zakim, next item
15:06:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "EPUBCheck fund raising status" taken up [from Ralph]
15:06:47 <dauwhe> Ralph: George, is there more on EPUBCheck fundraising?
15:07:02 <dauwhe> George: we had a mistake in an email; the 2nd had the Apple donation
15:07:08 <dauwhe> ... and $1500 from Germany
15:07:22 <dauwhe> ... Luc is still managing it; we've asked him to forward the status updates
15:07:23 <Ralph> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2020May/0017.html FW: Latest position on EPUBCheck fundraising- 14 May 2020
15:07:38 <dauwhe> Ralph: he can post to the list
15:07:46 <dauwhe> George: I'll let him know.
15:07:55 <Ralph> zakim, next item
15:07:55 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Deltour family support" taken up [from Ralph]
15:08:00 <jeff> present+
15:10:52 <Ralph> present+ Garth
15:12:36 <jeff> q+
15:13:30 <dauwhe> q+
15:13:45 <ivan> present+
15:15:13 <garth> garth has joined #pbgsc
15:15:18 <garth> present+ Garth
15:15:46 <ivan> present+ yoshii
15:17:03 <Ralph> regrets+ Liisa
15:17:37 <jyoshii> jyoshii has joined #pbgsc
15:18:16 <jyoshii> present+
15:21:33 <Ralph> zakim, next item
15:21:33 <Zakim> agendum 4. "EPUB Accessiblity work" taken up [from Ralph]
15:22:03 <dauwhe> Ralph: some background on this
15:22:10 <dauwhe> ... y'all know more abou the history
15:22:35 <dauwhe> ... on W3T, we became aware of some scheduling opportunitys WRT adoptions of Euro regulations
15:22:53 <dauwhe> ... The IDPF epub a11y spec was submitted to ISO
15:23:17 <dauwhe> ... if the ISO balloting process concludes with adopting this, it would shut out W3C
15:23:30 <dauwhe> ... and updates would have to go through ISO process
15:23:42 <dauwhe> ... now we have a draft EPUB 3 WG charter with a11y as deliverable
15:24:14 <Cristina> Cristina has joined #pbgsc
15:24:14 <dauwhe> ... is it appropriate, useful to indicate in that charter that might help the ISO process be aware that there is a w3c rec-track effort to improve that spec
15:24:24 <dauwhe> ... w3c doesn't have a formal input to the iso process
15:24:25 <tzviya> present+ Cristina
15:24:27 <Cristina> present+
15:24:32 <ivan> q+
15:24:34 <tzviya> q+
15:24:40 <dauwhe> ... but if we had a charter that showed we had an improved spec on the rec track, that might be useful
15:25:04 <dauwhe> ... those who know more about the status of EPUB a11y in ISO might inform us if this would be helpful
15:25:24 <dauwhe> tzviya: I have a related comment
15:25:34 <dauwhe> ... I was on WAI coord call last week
15:25:45 <dauwhe> ... there were a few questions about the a11y spec
15:26:04 <dauwhe> ... there was a lot of concern about why this doc is a note, why it's happening apart from WAI
15:26:09 <dauwhe> ... the question is where it's going next
15:26:10 <George> q+
15:26:17 <dauwhe> ... if it's rec track, where will it live
15:26:27 <dauwhe> ... should it be in WCAG? Which WCAG?
15:26:36 <dauwhe> ... and we'd need to talk to the WG immediately
15:26:37 <jeff> q+ to talk about harmonization
15:26:44 <dauwhe> ... we need to get it on their radar
15:26:45 <Avneesh> q+
15:27:01 <dauwhe> ... and we need to do a better job of making people in WAI aware of what we're doing
15:27:18 <dauwhe> Ralph: clarifying jeff's question
15:27:43 <dauwhe> ... W3C has ??? privileges, but they kick in only when we have RECs
15:27:46 <ivan> ack Ralph
15:27:46 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to react to tzviya to clarify on PAS
15:27:50 <dauwhe> ... it's in a draft WG charter
15:27:52 <ivan> s/???/PAS
15:28:29 <dauwhe> ... the crucial conversation for today is, how quickly do we need to give more indication that w3c is interesting in doing REC-track work on EPUB a11y
15:28:33 <dauwhe> ... to Jeff's Q
15:28:52 <dauwhe> ... if there's an ISO ballot on something we didn't submit, our PAS authorization doesn't apply
15:29:05 <dauwhe> ivan: three things
15:29:21 <dauwhe> ... 1. On tzviya's comment, today EPUB a11y in EPUB 3 WG charter is on REC track
15:29:35 <dauwhe> ... it's alongside the rest of the EPUB specs
15:29:49 <dauwhe> ... lately we got a stronger involvement from shadi
15:30:11 <dauwhe> ... there is also another issue, which I may not understand because of EU
15:30:21 <Ralph> s/shadi/Shadi Abou-Zahra
15:30:25 <dauwhe> ... the EU has to decide what doc they want to adopt for a11y regulation
15:30:25 <Cristina> q+
15:30:33 <dauwhe> ... and that will be the basis of further regulation
15:30:42 <dauwhe> ... they will have to make this choice in June 2021
15:31:09 <dauwhe> ... the real Q is beyond the ISO question, the real choice is what they will do in 2021
15:31:39 <dauwhe> ... they are supposed to take a doc that's a standard, and give priority to formal standards bodies like ISO, since W3C is not on the same level in the eyes of Brussells
15:32:05 <dauwhe> ... the ISO document will be become a standard before the end of the year, and we can't stop that
15:32:34 <dauwhe> ... we should be able to show by june 2021 we have gone further than the ISO doc, with an a11y doc in complete sync with EPUB 3.X
15:32:47 <dauwhe> ... and the EU could then adopt our work
15:32:56 <dauwhe> ... I'm not 100% how we could achieve that
15:33:23 <dauwhe> ... Shadi is trying to find out what level of doc we have to show in June as good-enough proof that we've gone further than ISO
15:33:28 <dauwhe> ... that's my understanding
15:34:05 <dauwhe> George: Makoto put a statement in when w3c said it wasn't going to maintain this
15:34:23 <dauwhe> ... I made it clear that w3c was going to continue to move forward with the spec
15:34:39 <dauwhe> ... I was told it need to be ISO for the requirements of Asian nations
15:34:48 <dauwhe> ... we also thought it would be helpful in Europe
15:34:54 <dauwhe> ... it was needed in Japan
15:34:58 <Ralph> [W3C never said that; my understanding is that Murata-san claimed that W3C had made some decision]
15:35:01 <dauwhe> ... it was clear we would be moving it forward
15:35:35 <dauwhe> ... the group that developed the ISO version... there were questions about onix along with schema.org metadata; we realized we would have to address that in the next revision in w3c
15:35:45 <dauwhe> ... there was no substantive changes in ISO
15:36:04 <dauwhe> ... I voted in yes in NISO for the U.S.; I commented there was no substantive difference
15:36:15 <dauwhe> ... and all pubs that conformed to W3C note would conform to the ISO spec
15:36:38 <dauwhe> Ralph: is it your understanding that once this ISO ballot completes, then w3C's PAS capability becomes null?
15:36:56 <dauwhe> ... could W3C still submit an update? My understanding is that PAS does not apply once there's an ISO standard
15:37:02 <dauwhe> George: I don't know for sure
15:37:11 <dauwhe> ... we could ask ???
15:37:17 <dauwhe> ... the same thing applies to WCAG
15:37:24 <dauwhe> ... 2.0 is an ISO standard under w3c
15:37:30 <wendyreid> q+
15:37:38 <dauwhe> Ralph: we can do this because w3c was original submitter
15:37:40 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to talk about harmonization
15:38:06 <dauwhe> jeff: clearly we want this spec to get ISO's blessing
15:38:18 <dauwhe> ... when Makoto raised this question earlier
15:38:32 <dauwhe> ... we did not concieve of a path at that time where EPUB a11y would be on the REC track
15:38:44 <dauwhe> ... and given the immediacy, we said OK, take it through a different path
15:38:55 <dauwhe> ... even though there were representations we were uncomfortable with
15:39:09 <dauwhe> ... had we had a REC track, we would have preferred w3c's path through ISO
15:39:20 <dauwhe> ... we use a method where we retain change control in w3c
15:39:36 <dauwhe> ... if issues are raised in ISO, they are brought to the relevant W3C group
15:39:49 <dauwhe> ... but we retain change control
15:40:06 <dauwhe> ... if specs come through other processes, we lose change control
15:40:39 <dauwhe> ... to what extent do we want to risk the fragmentation of such an important spec?
15:40:52 <dauwhe> ... we could end up with two different EPUB a11y specs
15:41:21 <dauwhe> ... EPUB a11y as a theme is very important, esp. in Europe, if there are two specs there's a risk they'll take the ISO version
15:41:30 <tzviya> q+ to point out that we cant change what has happened. how to move fwd?
15:41:35 <dauwhe> ... it could become a problem if the documents diverge
15:41:39 <dauwhe> ... harmonization is key
15:41:48 <dauwhe> ... if we think this is important
15:41:53 <Ralph> s/can do this/can do this for WCAG
15:42:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph
15:42:08 <George> q+
15:42:09 <dauwhe> ... do we want to stop the existing submission? I don't know any other way to ensure harmonization
15:42:15 <dauwhe> ... we didn't have another path then
15:42:24 <dauwhe> ... but now we have it in the draft charter
15:42:35 <dauwhe> ... there might be other paths
15:42:51 <dauwhe> Avneesh: we all know the history
15:43:05 <dauwhe> ... looking at the future we always planned EPUB a11y as a short-term state
15:43:19 <dauwhe> ... the ultimate goal would be everything in WCAG
15:43:35 <dauwhe> ... we don't want a separate doc
15:43:43 <Ralph> s/anything from the PBG meeting on Tuesday?/anything urgent from the PBG meeting on Tuesday that we can talk about without Daihei and Liisa?
15:43:47 <dauwhe> ... we want one standard, silver, that covers everything
15:44:01 <dauwhe> ... we don't think this is something that will go on forever
15:44:09 <dauwhe> ... specific to EU, there are three levels
15:44:18 <dauwhe> ... Technical Spec, which has lowest significance
15:44:27 <dauwhe> ... then "Standard" which has to come from ISO
15:44:42 <dauwhe> ... but EU will not accept anything from ISO directly.
15:44:57 <ivan> regrets+ liisa
15:45:02 <dauwhe> ... but will ask a Euro organization to pick up the ISO standard
15:45:08 <dauwhe> ... the highest level is harmonized
15:45:21 <dauwhe> ... which can only come from a Euro organization
15:45:33 <dauwhe> ... so where is EPUB a11y spec now?
15:45:46 <dauwhe> ... the Euro people don't care about diff between rec track and CG note
15:45:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph
15:46:06 <dauwhe> ... there are OK with w3c spec and adopt as technical spec if no one objects
15:46:26 <dauwhe> ... but if any w3c standard wants to become standard in EU it's not possible without more process and change
15:46:41 <dauwhe> ... I don't think there's a question of harmonization with EU
15:46:56 <dauwhe> ... we can only ensure by putting EPUB a11y as Technical Specification
15:47:03 <dauwhe> ... I don't think we have to worry so much
15:47:24 <dauwhe> ... if we want higher level, we have to fight with Euro standards groups and fight for minimal changes
15:47:32 <dauwhe> Ralph: clarification on something...
15:47:42 <dauwhe> ... the euro folks don't care about rec track vs CG note
15:47:46 <ivan> ack Ralph
15:47:46 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to react to Avneesh to comment on "don't care about diff"
15:48:00 <dauwhe> ... w3C's ability to have special dispensation under ISO PAS
15:48:09 <dauwhe> ... to insert a spec we've developed into ISO
15:48:20 <dauwhe> ... w3C's permission to do that only applies to REC-track docs
15:48:33 <dauwhe> ... the Euro folks may not care, but W3C can only do PAS on REC track
15:48:38 <dauwhe> Avneesh: if I see ISO
15:49:01 <dauwhe> ... even ISO spec can become Euro only with work from european standards bodies
15:49:02 <jeff> q+ to comment on ISO to EU process
15:49:13 <dauwhe> Cristina: some more info about EU process
15:49:21 <dauwhe> ... when we discuss going to ISO
15:49:34 <dauwhe> ... the commission has an agreement with ISO
15:49:51 <dauwhe> ... at that time the final proposal for the directive was not yet published; we were working from draft
15:50:07 <dauwhe> ... the final version of directive had two possiblities
15:50:28 <dauwhe> ... one is to give ??? a mandate, to find an existing standard that is aligned
15:50:46 <dauwhe> ... if there is not an existing standard, to create another euro harmonized standard
15:52:05 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I am a bit unaware of the ISO/W3C/EU megacomplexities
15:52:19 <dauwhe> ... there have been suggestions of what we need to do to EPUB a11y
15:52:28 <dauwhe> ... it might not have to happen in the EPUB 3 WG
15:52:35 <dauwhe> ... I'm ok with moving to WAI
15:52:49 <dauwhe> ... Cristina has mentioned the need to work on requirements for FXL a11y
15:53:02 <dauwhe> ... that's a huge addition
15:53:12 <dauwhe> ... we'd want to tackle in the WG
15:53:28 <dauwhe> ... we're ok if one of the first things we have to do is the A11y work
15:53:47 <dauwhe> ... and we could notify everyone about what we're working on, and how it will go beyond the ISO doc
15:54:08 <dauwhe> ... real changes do need to happen to the document
15:54:11 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to point out that we cant change what has happened. how to move fwd?
15:54:36 <dauwhe> tzviya: we can't really change what's happening in ISO
15:54:59 <dauwhe> ... Jeff asked if it's been approved; I don't think we'd want to stop it as we agreed as a group
15:55:07 <dauwhe> ... wendyreid mentioned we need to move forward
15:55:24 <dauwhe> ... we'll likely split up the doc; move some into silver
15:55:47 <dauwhe> ... but how to make a11y FXL is more a best practice than something in WCAG
15:55:55 <dauwhe> ... how do we divy this up?
15:56:02 <dauwhe> ... and meet with silver task force
15:56:16 <dauwhe> ... and be represented in the WAI coordination group
15:56:20 <Zakim> Cristina, you wanted to react to tzviya
15:56:27 <dauwhe> Cristina: my last comment
15:56:38 <dauwhe> Ralph: the final version of the directive has 2 possiblities
15:56:48 <dauwhe> Cristina: 1 is to give mandate to euro standards body
15:56:54 <Ralph> s/the final version/Cristina, you were saying the final version
15:57:04 <dauwhe> ... verify if there is existing standard, or need to create a new one
15:57:14 <dauwhe> ... and they can see if there's a fitting ISO standard
15:57:29 <dauwhe> ... this will be long
15:57:43 <dauwhe> ... publishers may need to produce content not knowing the final version of the standard
15:58:00 <dauwhe> ... in 2025 all the books produced and distributed should be compliant
15:58:00 <Avneesh> q+
15:58:10 <dauwhe> ... we need to have the standard soon
15:58:32 <dauwhe> ... the other option is that euro commission adopt "technical specification" which has a different meaning than in ISO
15:58:57 <dauwhe> ... it just means standard developed in open way, Amazon would not be accepted, but from a nonprofit with stakeholder consensus
15:59:25 <dauwhe> ... if there is a document from w3c that complies with this requirement, we can describe how it's been developed, and might be accepted by the commission
15:59:43 <dauwhe> ... and it must meet the high-level requirements of the euro a11y act
16:00:20 <ivan> q+
16:00:21 <dauwhe> ... so we need to check what's already in the euro requirement, and prepare a doc which describes how the process complies with the requirement
16:00:33 <dauwhe> ... this is better than if commission in june asks for mandate
16:00:49 <dauwhe> ... Euro Pub Assoc will agree with us
16:01:30 <dauwhe> George: Korea EPUB 3.0.1 through fast PAS process to ISO
16:01:43 <dauwhe> ... because it's a Korea-adopted standard
16:01:51 <dauwhe> ... they won't maintain the spec; that's on us
16:01:59 <dauwhe> ... there's an understanding we'll do the work
16:02:12 <dauwhe> ... the issue of FXL... we've heard them talk about multiple renditions in EPUB
16:02:14 <Cristina> Cristina has joined #pbgsc
16:02:34 <Cristina> present+
16:02:35 <dauwhe> ... I'm still researching that
16:02:40 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to comment on ISO to EU process
16:03:00 <dauwhe> jeff: several remarks about how specs go back and forth between W3C / ISO / EU
16:03:38 <dauwhe> ... how the harmoninization process works: everyone likes harmony. Fragmentation is bad.
16:03:56 <dauwhe> ... WCAG 2.1 is a good example. WCAG was taken up by the EU with no changes
16:04:10 <dauwhe> ... we worked hard to get them to agree to adopt WCAG
16:04:35 <dauwhe> ... we had everyone understand A. harmonization is good. B. we have an open process C. The work gets done at W3C
16:04:43 <Ralph> [Jeff cites EN 301 549 - Accessibility requirements suitable for public procurement of ICT products and services in Europe]
16:05:17 <dauwhe> ... so I'm optimistic that if we pub epub a11y on REC, and repeat our principles to other standards orgs, that there would be a high likelyhood they would want to adopt the w3c standard
16:05:36 <Cristina> q+
16:05:46 <dauwhe> ... the issue we have with the current ISO EPUB A11y, it was done at a time when we didn't have a plan to continue the work
16:06:06 <dauwhe> ... it's being balloted now; and being voted on by people who don't understand that there is a new possibility
16:06:19 <dauwhe> ... I'm not saying we stop the ISO process
16:06:36 <dauwhe> ... I meant to stay we should communicate to those who are voting that a new opportunity is coming up
16:06:54 <dauwhe> ... and the stakeholders should consider that a harmonized standard might be a better plan
16:07:05 <dauwhe> ... and develop a REC and use PAS
16:07:13 <dauwhe> ... and work with all the stakeholders
16:07:38 <dauwhe> ... on EN 301 549 we worked very closely with EU to meet their deadlines
16:07:46 <dauwhe> Avneesh: I don't think we should worry about the specification
16:08:02 <dauwhe> ... if we are going to make substantial changes, it can be submitted as new standard
16:08:09 <dauwhe> ... there are even different names
16:08:26 <dauwhe> ... we can submit a new standard via PAS
16:09:04 <dauwhe> ivan: I try to see waht the next steps could be
16:09:13 <dauwhe> ... I'm charter editor
16:09:42 <dauwhe> ... we can make it explicit in the charter what are the things we intend to do with this doc
16:10:10 <dauwhe> ... Cristina's remark that we should put into the charter saying some of the work we should be doing is if the doc is aligned with the euro rules
16:10:19 <dauwhe> ... we want to make it aligned with what the EU wants
16:10:28 <dauwhe> ... the other thing I heard was to take care of FXL a11y
16:10:39 <dauwhe> ... so making it clear we're moving beyond what ISO is working on now
16:10:47 <dauwhe> ... so we can rename as Avneesh mentioned
16:11:12 <dauwhe> ... and then the next thing, I think we should keep it in this charter, where we expect to have the expertiese
16:11:21 <dauwhe> ... WAI probably has no idea what FXL is
16:11:30 <dauwhe> ... more people here understand it
16:11:48 <dauwhe> ... we have a doc that is in sync with EPUB itself is a very strong message
16:12:16 <dauwhe> ... in the WG schedule, we commit ourselves the CR of this document earlier than the other documents
16:12:32 <dauwhe> ... can we take the risk of putting a target of june 21 as a target for EPUB a11y
16:12:43 <dauwhe> ... if we have that, then comes what Jeff says
16:12:58 <dauwhe> ... and that doc might already be good enough to reach out to our friends and foes
16:13:09 <dauwhe> ... and say our goal is harmonization around this work
16:13:25 <dauwhe> Cristina: 2 things to jeff
16:13:45 <dauwhe> ... when you speak about WCAG accepted by EU, was it technical specification?
16:13:52 <Zakim> Jeff, you wanted to react to Cristina
16:14:11 <dauwhe> jeff: the EU standard for mobile a11y is a broad standard
16:14:26 <dauwhe> ... i think it says in the standard, for this piece use WCAG 2.1 from w3
16:14:31 <dauwhe> ... it's done by reference
16:14:35 <garth> q+ To say “yes, Ivan’s suggestion seems a good one”
16:14:47 <dauwhe> Cristina: in that case you worked with euro standards body after they had the mandate
16:14:58 <Ralph> -> http://mandate376.standards.eu/standard EN 301 549
16:15:21 <dauwhe> ... if possible to work more on the possible proposal of Ivan, before euro commission gives mandate
16:15:25 <jeff> https://www.essentialaccessibility.com/blog/en-301-549/
16:15:27 <dauwhe> ... it would be easier and quicker
16:15:34 <dauwhe> ... how long do have REC track?
16:15:38 <dauwhe> jeff: on first point
16:15:52 <dauwhe> ... we've put in some links on how wcag is referenced
16:16:04 <ivan> q+
16:16:08 <dauwhe> ... as far as how long it would take... we need to charter first
16:16:21 <dauwhe> ... then it's a working group decision
16:16:44 <dauwhe> Cristina: I have checked your links. You were involved after the mandate. A more complex process.
16:16:50 <dauwhe> Ralph: we've used our fifteen minutes
16:16:54 <Zakim> garth, you wanted to say “yes, Ivan’s suggestion seems a good one”
16:17:13 <dauwhe> garth: +1 to Cristina's +1 of Ivan's suggestion
16:17:18 <dauwhe> ... it seems reasonable
16:17:43 <dauwhe> Ralph: what I'm hearing is that some subcommittee of Cristina, Ivan, Avneesh, and George could propose some text for the charter
16:17:53 <dauwhe> ivan: the timing questions of Cristina and jeff
16:18:04 <dauwhe> ... when we start the formal process is not clear to me
16:18:13 <dauwhe> ... I don't see that happening before june
16:18:23 <dauwhe> ... in optimal case WG can start in September
16:18:28 <Avneesh> q+
16:18:31 <dauwhe> ... for the REC track process
16:18:35 <Cristina> q+
16:18:45 <dauwhe> ... there is incompressible time of six or seven months in any case because of IPR policy
16:19:03 <dauwhe> ... what I propose is not to publish REC, but to publish CR earlier
16:19:31 <dauwhe> ... it's a strong message to say the a11y doc will be in absolute sync with EPUB 3.X
16:19:52 <dauwhe> ... if we publish a REC earlier, the argument becomes weaker--they can get out of sync
16:20:09 <dauwhe> ... CR means it's technically complete; we are just testing with the community
16:20:33 <dauwhe> ... if we have that doc by next summer, we're in a good place
16:20:54 <dauwhe> Avneesh: epub a11y is designed to work with any version of EPUB by design
16:21:07 <dauwhe> ... the timeline of development will depend on what changes we want to make
16:21:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph
16:21:19 <dauwhe> ... substantial changes would take more time
16:21:47 <dauwhe> Cristina: if we have a clear process and timeline, we can go back to the commission and explain what we are doing
16:22:02 <dauwhe> ... they are commited to make the mandate for products, we could ask them to wait for services
16:22:31 <dauwhe> ... the fact that the process is open is very important
16:22:41 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to ask about "fixed layout improvements"
16:22:50 <dauwhe> Ralph: what nature of work might be useful as an early success
16:22:55 <dauwhe> ... wendyreid mentioned FXL
16:23:06 <dauwhe> ... but then Avneesh said it's not version-specific
16:23:24 <dauwhe> ... Avneesh, george, Cristina--who's the right person to work on language that would help
16:23:27 <dauwhe> Avneesh: I'll help
16:23:33 <dauwhe> Cristina: I'll help
16:23:40 <dauwhe> George: this is language for the charter?
16:23:41 <dauwhe> Ralph: yes
16:23:51 <dauwhe> ... there is some urgency because of timelines
16:24:24 <dauwhe> Avneesh: what's our timeline? 1 week? 2 weeks?
16:24:26 <wendyreid> q+
16:24:32 <dauwhe> ivan: I wwould like to have it in one week
16:24:47 <dauwhe> ... we need approval from w3m, from our own a11y people, before going to AC
16:24:57 <Ralph> action: Avneesh, George, Cristina, Ivan propose some text on EPUB A11y for the EPUB 3 WG charter
16:25:11 <dauwhe> ... if we want to start in september we need vote by june
16:25:38 <dauwhe> ... there is an orthogonal issue; we don't have comments from non-japanese publishers on the charter
16:25:54 <dauwhe> Ralph: I though we had wiley's comment
16:26:05 <dauwhe> ... Avneesh, Ivan is eager to get this started
16:26:12 <dauwhe> ... this is important to get right
16:26:22 <dauwhe> ... next week is very busy for many of us
16:26:28 <dauwhe> ... but there's not an actual deadline
16:26:51 <dauwhe> Cristina: we can work in a google doc
16:27:11 <dauwhe> wendyreid: in agreement with ralph and ivan
16:27:24 <dauwhe> ... to the people who are going to draft it, do whatever you are comfortable with
16:27:32 <dauwhe> ... I can help get it into the charter in github
16:27:53 <dauwhe> ... we really need other publishers to comment on the charter
16:29:09 <dauwhe> Ralph: thanks everyone for taking the action about this
16:29:30 <dauwhe> ivan: who takes the first shot at it?
16:29:40 <dauwhe> Ralph: the four of you can decide
16:30:09 <dauwhe> garth: liisa and leslie... do they count?
16:30:15 <dauwhe> (everyone) yes
16:30:33 <dauwhe> garth: let's give them an action to them to comment
16:30:43 <Ralph> action: Garth to get Liisa and Leslie to respond
16:31:04 <Ralph> [adjourned]
16:31:09 <Ralph> dauwhe++
16:34:04 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
16:34:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been George, Ralph, Ivan, Avneesh, wendyreid, dauwhe, tzviya, mateus, jeff, Garth, yoshii, jyoshii, Cristina
16:34:06 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:34:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
16:34:09 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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20:07:43 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
20:07:43 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-pbgsc-actions.rdf :
20:07:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Avneesh, George, Cristina, Ivan propose some text on EPUB A11y for the EPUB 3 WG charter [1]
20:07:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-pbgsc-irc#T16-24-57
20:07:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Garth to get Liisa and Leslie to respond [2]
20:07:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2020/05/15-pbgsc-irc#T16-30-43