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18:59:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/05/12-immersive-web-irc
19:00:00 <dom> Present+
19:00:06 <dom> Present+ Leonard
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19:00:23 <dom> Meeting: Immersive Web Working Group teleconference
19:00:23 <alexturn> present+
19:00:26 <dom> Agenda: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/master/meetings/wg/2020-05-12-Immersive_Web_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
19:01:30 <cwervo> present+
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19:02:08 <Kip_> present+
19:02:58 <cwilso> present+
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19:03:58 <cwilso> chair: ada
19:04:05 <dino> present+
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19:04:13 <cabanier> present+
19:04:36 <bajones> present+
19:05:10 <Leonard> scribe Leonard
19:05:17 <dom> scribe: Leonard
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19:06:14 <ada> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/674
19:06:21 <Leonard> Ada: WebXR #674: https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/674
19:06:24 <atsushi> zakim, clear agenda
19:06:24 <Zakim> agenda cleared
19:07:04 <atsushi> agenda+ webxr#674 Should requestReferenceSpace() wait until getViewerPose() won't be null? [toji]
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19:07:10 <atsushi> zakim, take up agendum 1
19:07:10 <Zakim> agendum 1. "webxr#674 Should requestReferenceSpace() wait until getViewerPose() won't be null?" taken up [from toji via atsushi]
19:07:18 <yonet> present+
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19:07:36 <Leonard> Brandon: requestReferenceSpace not return until it is ready
19:07:39 <atsushi> agenda+ webxr#743 Allow sensitive UI to make use of the visible-blurred state [Manishearth]
19:07:53 <dino> dino has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/master/meetings/wg/2020-05-12-Immersive_Web_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
19:08:08 <Leonard> ... Maybe minor benefits or penalities for this behavior, especially if the method never returns
19:08:10 <atsushi> agenda+ webxr#980 Add XRInputSourceEvent::{screenX, screenY} [AdaRoseCannon]
19:08:42 <Leonard> ... Check with group to see if there are any additional or removed concerns
19:08:54 <Leonard> ... <crickets>
19:09:46 <Leonard> Brandon: Discussion with Manish. Probably OK to wait on response resolution.
19:09:48 <alexturn> q+
19:10:14 <Leonard> ... It this takes more than a few seconds, then there may be trouble. Don't feel that it necessary to standardize
19:10:17 <Leonard> ... across platforms.
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19:10:26 <ada> ack alexturn
19:11:09 <Leonard> Alex: Interesting places where the detailed interactions differ between platforms. Only time where this may cause
19:11:34 <Leonard> ... problems is when it takes a while to establish local space. May be an issue in AR systems where it takes
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19:12:18 <Leonard> ... a while to construct the physical local space. Virtual local space should establish quickly.
19:13:01 <Manishearth> q+
19:13:14 <Leonard> ... may cause apps to have extra code to deal with "dead time" while the local pose gets established
19:13:16 <ada> ack Manishearth
19:14:03 <Leonard> Manish: Return with null pose is useful as long as it is understood null == don't know as oppose to something
19:14:28 <Leonard> ... else more sinister. Reasonable to expects apps to handle it.
19:14:40 <Manishearth> q+
19:14:46 <Leonard> Alex: agrees.
19:14:51 <ada> ack Manishearth
19:15:32 <Leonard> Manish: Feels wierd if BaseSpace can create a nulll pose after returning a real pose. But may be a spec language issue
19:15:59 <Leonard> Ada: Asks Brandon if sufficient info now?
19:16:21 <Leonard> Brandon: Most overtalked by dog, but appears to agree.
19:16:32 <Leonard> Ada: Next Item - https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/issues/743
19:16:33 <atsushi> zakim, take up agendum 2
19:16:33 <Zakim> agendum 2. "webxr#743 Allow sensitive UI to make use of the visible-blurred state" taken up [from Manishearth via atsushi]
19:17:33 <Leonard> Manish: Trusted UI take over screen (everything else is hidden). No input to non-trusted UI ==> null poses for everything.
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19:18:02 <Leonard> ... Visible blurred has input hidden, but pose is not. No interaction with user.
19:18:32 <artem> +100500
19:18:32 <Manishearth> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/1034
19:18:53 <Leonard> ... UA should use hidden or blurred depending on context. E.g., hidden for passwords
19:19:01 <avadacatavra> q+
19:19:18 <Leonard> Brandon: The text provides an optional state that a UA may choose to use.
19:19:31 <ada> ack avadacatavra
19:19:45 <artem> q+
19:20:04 <Leonard> Diana: Derrives from experiments on trusted UI. Freeze scene in a user-obvious manner
19:20:14 <alexturn> q+
19:21:23 <ada> ack artem
19:21:29 <cabanier> q+
19:22:38 <Leonard> Artem: Already implemented. Found its necessary to throttle to ~1/2 frame-rate. UX not god at other values
19:22:43 <ada> ack alexturn
19:23:58 <Leonard> Alex: agrees. Hololens has implemented something similar to interact with wrist device
19:24:17 <Leonard> Brandon: <something>
19:24:21 <ada> ack cabanier
19:25:01 <Leonard> Rik: Concerned - implementations have eye-trackers need to not have access to data while trusted UI is displayed
19:25:22 <Leonard> Brandon: No poses ==> no tracking.
19:25:50 <Leonard> ... At Google, force page to over-render and only supply quantized input data
19:27:29 <Leonard> Diana: 1 uses cases: text input, button clicking. Text almost certainly trusted; button unknown
19:27:39 <Leonard> Ada: OK to continue in issue
19:28:19 <Leonard> Brandon: Would like to know if anyone is opposed to the concept.
19:28:22 <atsushi> zakim, take up agendum 3
19:28:22 <Zakim> agendum 3. "webxr#980 Add XRInputSourceEvent::{screenX, screenY}" taken up [from AdaRoseCannon via atsushi]
19:28:22 <Leonard> <srickets>
19:28:46 <Leonard> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/980
19:30:25 <alexturn> q+
19:30:36 <Leonard> Manish: Need to differentiate world vs. screen coordinates for rendering. Really applies to hand-held AR devices
19:30:39 <ada> ack alexturn
19:31:00 <Manishearth> q+
19:31:02 <bialpio> q+
19:31:34 <Leonard> Alex: Concern that the core has abstracted across all devices. To get screen-space UI, have been using DOM overlay
19:32:24 <Leonard> ... When an item is rendered in XR space, it may be fine for AR, but can cause display problems for VR
19:32:43 <ada> ack Manishearth
19:32:51 <Leonard> ... Splitting content to some that requires certain types of devices for rendering
19:33:40 <bajones> q+
19:33:40 <Leonard> Manish: Issue applys polyfill for DOM Overlay. It also allows other device+accessories to work. E.g., put game controller controls on display.
19:33:44 <ada> ack bialpio
19:34:19 <Manishearth> q+
19:34:42 <Leonard> Piotr: Adds another (3rd) means to obtain this info. There is already game pad and DOM Overlay. Don't like that it
19:35:14 <Leonard> ... is only valid for screen-space interfaces. This is a special case set of data and may need it's own handling
19:35:17 <ada> ack bajones
19:35:46 <Leonard> Brandon: Asks Piotr about getting the data through the game pad as (non-standard) Chrome?
19:36:20 <Leonard> Piotr: Not exactly. Standard or non-standard game pads do provide that info
19:37:18 <Leonard> Brandon: Piotr's method delivers a blob of data. This means is more web-standards like.
19:38:41 <Leonard> ... Wiuthout this issue, there may be very poor individually developed solutions (screen-size transparent PNG to capture
19:38:51 <Leonard> ... touch point).
19:39:33 <ada> ack Manishearth
19:40:13 <Leonard> Manish: Gamepad is not a standard way for exposing screen space coordinates. Would like something in spec...
19:40:18 <bialpio> q+
19:40:20 <alcooper> q+
19:40:31 <ada> ack bialpio
19:40:35 <Leonard> ... rather than individual one-off means that is different for each device
19:41:23 <Leonard> Piotr: Still concerned about adding data that is limited to certain display devices onto a an event that applies everywhere
19:41:31 <ada> ack alcooper
19:42:34 <alexturn> q+
19:42:34 <Leonard> Alex Cooper: Agrees with Piotr.
19:42:44 <ada> ack alexturn
19:42:49 <Manishearth> q+
19:43:24 <Leonard> Alex Turner: Wondering what it means to add 2 parameters to the Core and not in a specific module?
19:43:29 <ada> ack Manishearth
19:43:33 <bajones> q+
19:44:07 <Leonard> Manish: OK to make changes to spec. Must make sense to be in Core. This one could belong in AR module; however,
19:44:36 <Leonard> ... Layers may use this as well -- though Layers may implement this differently.
19:44:43 <Leonard> Ada: Is this a breaking change?
19:45:02 <Leonard> Brandon: This is strictly additive.
19:45:02 <ada> ack bajones
19:46:01 <Leonard> ... Using dictionaries to determine where to put changes. Adding parameters to the event requires that the associated
19:46:23 <Leonard> ... dictionary be updated. In this case, this dictionary is in Core; hence the update to Core.
19:46:51 <atsushi> topic: AOB
19:46:52 <Leonard> Ada: Closes discussion in call on issue
19:47:01 <Leonard> ... Additional topics?
19:47:18 <dom> YAY!
19:47:22 <artem> hooray!
19:47:34 <Leonard> Brandon: Notes that the Charter has been accepted for two more years.
19:47:40 <atsushi> https://www.w3.org/2020/05/immersive-Web-wg-charter.html
19:48:14 <Leonard> ... Thanks the Chairs for continuing to push the Charter through the process to keep the group active.
19:49:16 <Leonard> Ada: Super close to PCR milestone. Take a look at the HELP issues. See agenda (https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/master/meetings/wg/2020-05-12-Immersive_Web_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md)
19:49:30 <Leonard> ... for a listing of the items that can use some work.
19:49:34 <atsushi> rrsagent, make log public
19:49:42 <Leonard> Ada: Closes meeting
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19:50:41 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish log v2
19:50:41 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'publish log v2', atsushi.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:51:26 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish minutes v2
19:51:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/05/12-immersive-web-minutes.html atsushi
19:52:48 <atsushi> s/scribe Leonard//
19:53:39 <atsushi> s/Alex Cooper: /Alex_Cooper: /
19:53:51 <atsushi> s/Alex Turner:/Alex_Turner:/
19:54:12 <atsushi> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2020/04/28-immersive-web-minutes.html
19:54:16 <atsushi> rrsagent, publish minutes v2
19:54:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/05/12-immersive-web-minutes.html atsushi
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