14:56:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
14:56:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/04/17-pbgsc-irc
14:56:39 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #pbgsc
14:57:37 <Ralph> zakim, start meeting
14:57:37 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:57:38 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee
14:58:48 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2020Apr/0008.html
15:00:10 <Ralph> agenda+ BG discussion of EPUB 3 WG charter and issue #23
15:00:24 <Daihei> Daihei has joined #pbgsc
15:00:30 <Daihei> present+
15:00:31 <Ralph> agenda+ Other GitHub open issues on the draft EPUB 3 WG charter
15:00:46 <Ralph> agedna+ RS Accessibility bugs - where to file?
15:00:54 <Ralph> agenda+ RS Accessibility bugs - where to file?
15:01:12 <Ralph> s/agedna+ RS Accessibility bugs - where to file?//
15:01:24 <dauwhe> present+
15:01:26 <George> George has joined #pbgsc
15:01:50 <George> present+
15:01:55 <Ralph> present+
15:01:58 <ivan> present+
15:02:05 <Ralph> zakim list attendees
15:02:10 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbgsc
15:02:14 <Ralph> s/zakim list attendees//
15:02:20 <Ralph> zakim, list attendees
15:02:20 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Daihei, dauwhe, George, Ralph, ivan
15:02:27 <Ralph> present+ Wendy
15:02:29 <liisamk> present+
15:02:30 <Ralph> regrets+ Cristina
15:02:35 <tzviya> present+
15:02:36 <wendyreid> wendyreid has joined #pbgsc
15:02:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc
15:02:49 <wendyreid> present+
15:02:52 <jeff> jeff has joined #pbgsc
15:02:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
15:03:05 <dauwhe> scribe+ dauwhe
15:03:09 <jeff> present+
15:03:32 <dauwhe> tzviya: apologies for the late agenda
15:03:46 <dauwhe> Topic: Summary of PBG meeting
15:04:02 <dauwhe> liisamk: there is concern from the Japanese community
15:04:13 <dauwhe> ... that they want assurances about backward compatibility
15:04:22 <Ralph> -> https://www.w3.org/2020/04/14-pbg-minutes 14-April BG meeting record
15:04:28 <dauwhe> ... and they are worried about requirements for implementations of EPUB features
15:04:39 <ivan> q+
15:04:42 <dauwhe> ... but there aren't concerns about specific features
15:05:05 <garth> garth has joined #pbgsc
15:05:09 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/issues/8 Strengthen compatibility requirements, involve epubcheck #8
15:05:12 <garth> present+ Garth
15:05:41 <dauwhe> Daihei: we want to secure assurances that throughout rec track compatability will be assured, and maintenance of the eco
15:05:46 <dauwhe> ... system
15:05:56 <dauwhe> ... we want it confirmed and written
15:06:01 <garth> q?
15:06:09 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/issues/23 Keeping backward compatibility and maintenance of EPUB business ecosystem; without any disruptions to be
15:06:11 <dauwhe> ... and new features which might cause disruption
15:06:20 <dauwhe> ... and so backward compatibility will not be assured
15:06:34 <dauwhe> ... and there were concerns expressed about the HTML serialization of HTML5
15:06:46 <dauwhe> ... which could affect implementation
15:06:47 <tzviya> ack iv
15:06:49 <dauwhe> q+
15:06:52 <George> q+
15:07:03 <wendyreid> q+
15:07:07 <dauwhe> ivan: I don't remember the exact dates
15:07:17 <dauwhe> ... there were a series of issues coming into the charter
15:07:27 <dauwhe> ... from Florian, from Makoto, from Toshiake
15:07:37 <dauwhe> ... and some of the things you mentioned, were taken up
15:07:48 <dauwhe> ... and we had three or four pull requests that were accepted and merged
15:07:55 <dauwhe> ... so the charter has been updated
15:08:01 <wendyreid> s/Toshiake/Toshiaki/
15:08:02 <dauwhe> ... for HTML5 we had some minor changes
15:08:17 <jeff> q+
15:08:26 <dauwhe> ... the question came up about ssml or epub:type, things that are bound to the xhtml serialization
15:08:43 <dauwhe> ... and we added words to make it clear that no RS can refuse to take XHTML
15:08:50 <Ralph> -> https://w3c.github.io/epub-3-wg-charter/ current draft proposed EPUB 3 WG charter
15:09:01 <dauwhe> ... that was settled
15:09:09 <dauwhe> ... the thing that becomes more complicated is
15:09:26 <dauwhe> ... the standard w3c approach to CR is that there need to be two implementations of each feature
15:09:33 <ivan> https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/issues/19
15:09:34 <dauwhe> ... I'll put the reference to the issue here
15:09:57 <dauwhe> ... what happens if there's a feature with only one implementation, therefore it doesn't meet CR exit criteria
15:10:14 <dauwhe> ... and they said it should not be removed from the standard because there are documents that use it
15:10:15 <tzviya> q+ to discuss process
15:10:35 <dauwhe> ... it is perfectly possible that if a feature doesn't get 2 implementations
15:10:48 <dauwhe> ... it could be kept as a non-normative feature because there is no interop
15:10:57 <dauwhe> ... but documents could remain conforming
15:11:10 <dauwhe> ... this came up again this morning
15:11:19 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbgsc
15:11:23 <dauwhe> ... with a new comment in the repo
15:11:32 <dauwhe> ... one thing I raised
15:11:43 <dauwhe> ... is that this process issue, is not required to be in the charter
15:11:50 <dauwhe> ... because it's part of w3c process
15:12:03 <dauwhe> ... but we could make it explicit in the charter
15:12:27 <dauwhe> ... the charter makes very strong statements about compatibility
15:12:38 <dauwhe> ... I'm not sure what else we can do to allieviate the concerns
15:12:40 <tzviya> q?
15:12:43 <tzviya> ack Ralph
15:12:56 <dauwhe> Ralph: thanks Daihei for reinforcing the depth of the sensitivity
15:13:08 <dauwhe> ... what would help me to udnerstnad the types of sensitivities
15:13:27 <dauwhe> ... things like changing version ID caused isssues in the past, so we promised not to do that
15:13:45 <dauwhe> ... A high-level concern is that products, that is books, that are currently being shipped
15:13:59 <dauwhe> ... publishers don't want anything to happen to flag those existing books as no longer proper
15:14:05 <dauwhe> ... they don
15:14:17 <dauwhe> ...'t want the business chain to throw out existing inventory
15:14:27 <dauwhe> ... or not to be able to sell to a consumer existing inventory
15:14:33 <dauwhe> ... how to express that in charter language
15:14:49 <dauwhe> ... ivan has expressed technically how we might implement that
15:15:05 <dauwhe> ... how we might implement tests for features without interoperability
15:15:07 <Daihei> q+
15:15:11 <garth> q?
15:15:17 <garth> q+
15:15:25 <dauwhe> ... is the kind of language that talks about the production chain, is that kind of language something that is needed?
15:15:26 <wendyreid> scribe+
15:15:39 <tzviya> ack da
15:15:46 <dauwhe> ... there is a sensitivity to something we haven't yet captured in language
15:16:06 <wendyreid> dauwhe: I'm going to ask are there any changes to EPUB that are acceptable?
15:16:10 <wendyreid> ... explicitly, new features
15:16:28 <wendyreid> ... having some new feature in EPUB, if you wanted a reading system to conform, it might require development
15:16:42 <wendyreid> ... are we saying that there can be no change to RSs, platforms, process
15:16:44 <tzviya> q?
15:16:47 <tzviya> ack dauwhe
15:16:49 <wendyreid> ... I'm trying to find the boundaries of this discussion
15:17:07 <wendyreid> ... My goal is making the tent bigger, all content remains valid but there are new possibilities
15:17:14 <wendyreid> ... are we objecting to new possibilities
15:17:17 <tzviya> ack George
15:17:21 <dauwhe> tzviya: that's a good question
15:17:28 <dauwhe> George: I'm asking the same kind of question
15:17:37 <dauwhe> ... if we added html serialization, and still allow xhtml
15:17:50 <dauwhe> ... the reading systems that would be able to render HTML could be the two implementations
15:18:00 <dauwhe> ... if we allow that, is that OK? books could have html or xhtml?
15:18:11 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
15:18:12 <dauwhe> ... and reading systems would support both, or maybe just xhtml
15:18:26 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I'm on the same wavelength
15:18:31 <liisamk> q+
15:18:34 <dauwhe> ... I responded to Daihei's issue on github
15:18:43 <dauwhe> ... I thought that the charter line was clear enough
15:18:49 <dauwhe> ... we intend to be backwards compatible
15:19:04 <dauwhe> ...  and I thought we explained in the call we want to make the tent bigger
15:19:20 <dauwhe> ... we want content creators to produce better epubs by using current web tech
15:19:29 <dauwhe> ... but all books will be valid
15:19:40 <dauwhe> ... no one wants to invalidate the entirety of the catalog
15:19:52 <dauwhe> ... what language needs to be changed? that's the feedback we're looking for
15:20:04 <tzviya> ack jeff
15:20:16 <dauwhe> jeff: I'm hearing a lot of discussion about the tech of backward compat and the charter language
15:20:24 <dauwhe> ... we've made clear we're demanding backward compat
15:20:32 <dauwhe> ... but I'm still hearing concerns
15:20:42 <dauwhe> ... but maybe the answer is not in tuning language in charter
15:20:56 <Avneesh> q+
15:20:59 <dauwhe> ... but having a set of conversations to give people more confidence in the process
15:21:11 <dauwhe> ... the w3c process is new and scary :)
15:21:28 <dauwhe> ... in w3c the best way to get what you want is not by negotiating charter language but by participation
15:21:40 <dauwhe> ... encouraging greater participation would be good
15:22:02 <dauwhe> ... there would be no break in compat wihtout consensus, and no consenus if the people are participating
15:22:25 <dauwhe> ... so we need more conversation, maybe a third chair from Japan
15:22:32 <tzviya> ack tz
15:22:32 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to discuss process
15:22:34 <dauwhe> tzviya: thanks jeff
15:22:41 <dauwhe> ... I agree with what Jeff said
15:22:51 <dauwhe> ... I think there's been misunderstandings about the process
15:22:58 <dauwhe> ... I think the charter language is clear
15:23:08 <dauwhe> ... maybe the next BG should go over the process
15:23:24 <dauwhe> ... we're not talking about EPUBCheck, and the validation process is not in scope for this group
15:24:05 <dauwhe> ... we decide what we mean by compatibility
15:24:18 <dauwhe> ... we can decide how this works
15:24:20 <dauwhe> q?
15:24:21 <tzviya> q?
15:24:34 <dauwhe> garth: I have such a long list of +1
15:25:13 <dauwhe> ... I don't agree that if a feature is not supported by any reading system it should be kept
15:25:25 <dauwhe> ... but we don't want to invalidate any content
15:25:42 <dauwhe> ... but if a feature exists in an EPUB, there was some implementation that created that feature
15:25:56 <dauwhe> ... although that's a legalistic argument :)
15:25:59 <tzviya> q?
15:26:08 <dauwhe> ... but I agree with jeff that actual engagement will be more useful
15:26:14 <tzviya> ack lii
15:26:34 <dauwhe> liisamk: it's not the people who are unaware of w3c process, it's Makoto who has raised this the most
15:26:51 <dauwhe> ... to dave's point on new features, I think new features are acceptable
15:27:16 <dauwhe> ... a line of assurance that the business chains, the clarity that all those things are possible implementations
15:27:22 <dauwhe> ... one line of those things would help
15:27:25 <dauwhe> ivan: what is that line?
15:27:39 <dauwhe> ... we have tried very hard to get the charter text to address these concerns
15:27:54 <dauwhe> ... we need something like "this line is wrong, change it to X"
15:28:15 <tzviya> ack av
15:28:15 <dauwhe> liisamk: we can talk about the process in the next BG call, but that doesn't. help us today
15:28:40 <wendyreid> q+
15:28:46 <dauwhe> Avneesh: It's a trust issue. Some people said they are not part of the WG.
15:29:03 <dauwhe> ... there is not enough participation in the WG from them, so it can slips out of their hands.
15:29:12 <Daihei> I have been on q+ and waiting
15:29:21 <liisamk> +1 to Avneesh
15:29:29 <dauwhe> ... we could have invited experts from Japan, if people are not members
15:29:39 <dauwhe> ... we also said that CG will be point of innovation
15:29:53 <dauwhe> ... why not have the incubation in the CG, even if we know it won't break anything
15:30:16 <dauwhe> ... let the CG build confidence before moving something to the WG
15:30:23 <dauwhe> ... re: epubcheck
15:30:33 <dauwhe> ... EPUBCheck should not be the reference point for compat
15:30:46 <dauwhe> ... we have relaxed EPUBcheck things so we don't break the long tail of old content
15:30:50 <dauwhe> q?
15:30:53 <wendyreid> +1 to Avneesh
15:30:58 <tzviya> ack Ralph
15:30:58 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to comment on "one line"
15:31:00 <dauwhe> Ralph: I hear ivan's frustration
15:31:08 <dauwhe> ... that we need precise language
15:31:16 <dauwhe> ... I would be willing to sit with Liisa and Daihei
15:31:26 <dauwhe> ... I know that Florian who knows process well
15:31:27 <tzviya> q+ to discuss ie for wg
15:31:39 <dauwhe> ... Florian offerered 2 very long sentences
15:32:04 <dauwhe> ... if it's a question of trust, then being involved in the group is the way to be confident about that trust
15:32:24 <dauwhe> ... if we can make the charter address that more explicitly, it's worth the effort
15:32:37 <dauwhe> ... if liisamk and Daihei are willing, I can take an action
15:32:37 <tzviya> ack we
15:32:41 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I agree with this
15:32:52 <dauwhe> ... ??? brought up the issue of not being able to join the WG
15:32:58 <liisamk> +1 to help with the "sentence"
15:33:17 <liisamk> q+
15:33:19 <dauwhe> ... we should encourage people to become w3c members to participate in the WG
15:33:31 <dauwhe> ... it's clear they want to participate. We need them there.
15:33:51 <dauwhe> ... even with the minutes and meeting summaries, it's hard to communicate all the information in a way that's understandable to everyone all the time
15:34:00 <garth> q?
15:34:05 <dauwhe> ... some japanese publishers are full members, and we should encourage them to join
15:34:23 <dauwhe> ... encourage the Business members to participate as full members, and to join the CG
15:34:50 <dauwhe> ... I like the idea of a Japanese co-chair, but we need someone who has the technical skills and wants to chair
15:35:06 <dauwhe> Adaret: coo
15:35:14 <dauwhe> q?
15:35:15 <garth> q?
15:35:20 <dauwhe> tzviya: I agree with Wendy
15:35:30 <ivan> q+ Daihei
15:35:36 <dauwhe> ... there are probably more Japanese publishers who are full members than US publishers
15:35:43 <Ralph> [I have had experience with chairs whose expertise is in group facilitation rather than the technical details of the deliverable.  Those were very successful]
15:35:45 <dauwhe> ... we would love to have their technical people on the WG
15:35:47 <garth> ack tzviya
15:35:47 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to discuss ie for wg
15:35:55 <dauwhe> ... it's about people being able to participate
15:36:07 <dauwhe> ... if Daihei or FLorian have suggestions, we would love to hear from them
15:36:22 <dauwhe> q?
15:36:28 <tzviya> ack li
15:36:43 <dauwhe> liisamk: Wendy, it's hard in BG to encourage people to become full members
15:36:55 <dauwhe> ... joining the W3C is not easy financially
15:37:00 <dauwhe> ... especially right now
15:37:17 <dauwhe> ... we talked to Christina the other day. Publishing is down to nothing there.
15:37:37 <dauwhe> ... we don't want to discourage existing members, but we can't push people to do more. It's not a reasonable ask right now.
15:37:38 <tzviya> ack da
15:37:50 <dauwhe> Daihei: agree with liisamk
15:38:00 <dauwhe> ... we would like to have the participation
15:38:05 <dauwhe> aderet: squeak
15:38:20 <jeff> present+ aderet
15:38:20 <dauwhe> Daihei: of japanese members, but there is a financial issues
15:38:36 <dauwhe> ... I will be sure to discuss with next week all the Japanese w3c members
15:38:46 <dauwhe> ... to appoint someone as a co-chair, and I will get back
15:38:55 <dauwhe> ... I know that participation from japan is important
15:39:10 <dauwhe> ... Kodansha, Shueisha, MediaDO, etc
15:39:19 <jeff> q+
15:39:28 <dauwhe> ... and other companies considering becoming full member
15:39:43 <dauwhe> ... In terms of the language
15:39:50 <dauwhe> ... the business chain or ecosystem
15:39:58 <dauwhe> ... that is what we wanted in
15:40:07 <dauwhe> ... but if that's not technically good enough to be in the charter
15:40:17 <dauwhe> ... I will check with the technical people for the language
15:40:28 <dauwhe> ... I don't think that Japan is the only one who wants backward compatiblility
15:40:42 <dauwhe> ... and existing files and products and inventory to be used in the future
15:40:57 <dauwhe> ... last year, there was an epubcheck error about the ordering of content in TOC
15:41:09 <liisamk> +1 to Daihei- I can attest that lots of NA and European publishers want backwards compatibility
15:41:16 <dauwhe> ... people were blaming me, as co-chair of PBG, that such an error message came up
15:41:29 <dauwhe> ... because they would have to spend millions of dollars to fix the issue
15:41:35 <George> q+
15:41:49 <dauwhe> ... and that is similar to the other countries
15:42:11 <dauwhe> ... no one said no to new features. We do want to improve epub!
15:42:22 <dauwhe> ... as long as we don't break anything
15:42:31 <dauwhe> ... I will have someone from Japan to participate in WG
15:42:43 <dauwhe> ... even outside of WG we should have democratic process
15:42:47 <dauwhe> ... that's what we need
15:43:10 <dauwhe> jeff: several people have commented about searching for a co-chair from Japan who has technical depth
15:43:19 <dauwhe> ... I would suggest that we relax that requirement
15:43:21 <dauwhe> q+
15:43:39 <dauwhe> ... with multiple chairs, each of them have their own skills and bring different things to the group
15:43:58 <dauwhe> ... if we had a third person in faciiliating the input from Japan's technical community
15:44:10 <dauwhe> ... that could be perfectly fine co-chair
15:44:43 <dauwhe> Ralph: I've had experience as team contact of exactly jeff's experience
15:44:55 <dauwhe> ... with someone who was skilled in facilitating the group
15:45:21 <Daihei> q+
15:45:26 <Avneesh> +1 to focus on participation firs
15:45:28 <dauwhe> tzviya: we need to focus on people who can participate, and we can think about chairing later
15:45:33 <Ralph> s/jeff's experience/the scenario Jeff suggests
15:45:33 <dauwhe> George: I'm concerned about two things
15:45:44 <dauwhe> ... one is... what would disrupt the japanese publishing industry
15:46:01 <dauwhe> ... if new titles came into the market that were html and had alternative HTML nav doc
15:46:07 <Avneesh> q+
15:46:11 <dauwhe> ... and publications start entering the market
15:46:25 <dauwhe> ... then existing reading systems would have to support the new content
15:46:33 <dauwhe> ... would this disrupt the ecosystem?
15:46:45 <dauwhe> ... I see that as natural evolution and development of standards
15:46:53 <dauwhe> ... but would it anger people?
15:47:04 <dauwhe> ... two: greater communication between the CG and the WG is important
15:47:14 <dauwhe> q-
15:47:15 <ivan> q+
15:47:30 <dauwhe> Daihei: in terms of candidate for co-chair
15:47:38 <dauwhe> ... I have a couple people in mind
15:47:46 <dauwhe> ... but they might not work for w3c members
15:48:00 <dauwhe> ... so I would ask for consideration as invited expert
15:48:07 <dauwhe> ... to be able to join the WG
15:48:14 <Avneesh> q-
15:48:36 <dauwhe> ... to answer george's quesation
15:48:53 <dauwhe> ... I have a new feature but will not break compatiblity
15:49:03 <dauwhe> ... if the feature might expand business
15:49:13 <dauwhe> ... and work as a benefit to the RS provider
15:49:25 <dauwhe> ... so it wouldn't be seen as a negative
15:49:27 <ivan> q- later
15:49:38 <Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to ask about reading systems
15:49:39 <dauwhe> ... improvement of epub will be welcomed by Japan and everywhere else
15:49:42 <dauwhe> Ralph: thanks daihei
15:49:56 <Daihei> q+
15:50:23 <dauwhe> ... do existing reading systems have to support EPUB 3.X content? That's a plausible tech constraint.
15:50:34 <dauwhe> ... it may be hard for the WG to weigh that kind of constraint.
15:50:59 <dauwhe> ... how will existing reading systems behave wrt an EPUB 3.X doc?
15:51:17 <dauwhe> q?
15:51:27 <dauwhe> ivan: two things
15:51:39 <dauwhe> ... one: to what george said, the way the charter reads today
15:52:07 <dauwhe> ... on new features like HTML, there is a sentence which said the effects of this feature must be carefully considered.,.. .... ....
15:52:33 <dauwhe> ... that makes it clear there's no obligation to add html, just as there are no obligation around other possible new features
15:52:43 <dauwhe> ... it's great we got these comments from Japan
15:52:54 <dauwhe> ... but we didn't get any comments from anywhere else in the world
15:52:55 <wendyreid> +1
15:53:14 <liisamk> q+
15:53:28 <dauwhe> ... I feel uncomfortable with the charter that we have no comments from Europe. N America, Africa, China, Antartica, etc
15:53:38 <dauwhe> Daihei: about epub reading systems and new features...
15:53:58 <dauwhe> ... that is my opinion, I will come back to you after confirming with japan
15:54:11 <dauwhe> ... the language for the world for the business chain, I will come back to you
15:54:19 <dauwhe> ... and the co-chair candidate, I will come back to you
15:54:36 <dauwhe> liisamk: PBG can put out an email to comment on the charter
15:54:58 <Ralph> zakim, next item
15:54:58 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Other GitHub open issues on the draft EPUB 3 WG charter" taken up [from Ralph]
15:55:04 <Ralph> -> https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/issues/2 #2
15:55:07 <Avneesh> EPUB 3 community is in CG, so it is also good to remind PCG/EEPUB3CG
15:55:09 <dauwhe> Ralph: issue #2, IDPF registries
15:55:23 <dauwhe> ... it seems obvious to me that the w3c registries should be part of the new WG
15:55:31 <dauwhe> ... is there a reason not to say that
15:55:36 <dauwhe> q+
15:55:56 <garth> +1
15:55:57 <wendyreid> dauwhe: W3C should definitely take responsibility for the registries
15:56:08 <wendyreid> ... as many of them as possible become part of the specs
15:56:27 <Ralph> zakim, next item
15:56:27 <Zakim> agendum 3. "RS Accessibility bugs - where to file?" taken up [from Ralph]
15:56:30 <dauwhe> Ralph: ivan, you can add that
15:56:48 <dauwhe> liisamk: I talked to my team about the PBG repo for RS bugs.
15:56:55 <dauwhe> ... should we include a11y bugs?
15:56:58 <dauwhe> q+
15:57:08 <tzviya> q+
15:57:21 <wendyreid> dauwhe: I think we should absolutely include them
15:57:23 <wendyreid> ... they are bugs
15:57:29 <wendyreid> ... we can use labels to sort and triage
15:57:31 <George> q+
15:57:35 <wendyreid> ... having them all in one place is useful
15:57:45 <wendyreid> ... and people don't have to judge where their problem lives
15:58:28 <dauwhe> tzviya: if it's really about the book or the system or the AT, there is an ARIA WG task force, and they are working with JAWS etc on board
15:58:53 <dauwhe> liisamk: there's a bug in ibooks if alt text is embedded in figure it's not available
15:58:58 <dauwhe> George: I agree with dave
15:59:19 <dauwhe> ... separate but equal is inherently unequal
15:59:22 <wendyreid> +1
15:59:27 <dauwhe> ... triage is important
15:59:36 <dauwhe> ... I filed a bug with JAWS on that issue
15:59:41 <dauwhe> Ralph: there is consensus :)
15:59:47 <dauwhe> adaret: waves
15:59:54 <dauwhe> present+ Adaret
16:00:09 <dauwhe> Ralph: thanks everyone, and we'll do better on timely agendas
16:00:37 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
16:00:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Daihei, dauwhe, George, Ralph, ivan, Wendy, liisamk, tzviya, wendyreid, Bill_Kasdorf, jeff, Garth, aderet, Adaret
16:00:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
16:00:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/17-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
16:00:42 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:00:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbgsc
16:02:09 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
16:02:09 <RRSAgent> I see no action items