23:48:09 RRSAgent has joined #pbg 23:48:09 logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/04/14-pbg-irc 23:48:21 Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telecon 23:48:33 Date: 2020-04-14 23:48:48 Chair: Daihei 00:00:16 present+ 00:00:24 Zakim, who is here? 00:00:24 Present: dauwhe 00:00:26 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, jyoshii_, Ralph__, wendyreid, dauwhe, bigbluehat 00:00:27 present+ 00:00:53 present+ jyoshii_ 00:01:41 liisamk has joined #pbg 00:01:51 present+ 00:02:23 Daihei has joined #pbg 00:03:44 present+ Shinya_Takami 00:03:54 ShinyaTa_ has joined #pbg 00:04:02 ShinyaTakami has joined #pbg 00:04:03 Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telecon 00:04:22 Date: 14/15 April 2020 00:04:24 present+ 00:04:47 present+ 00:04:48 MURATA has joined #pbg 00:05:07 I'm afraid that I cannot access the link in the draft agenda. 00:05:12 jkamata has joined #pbg 00:05:22 Chair: Daihei Shiohama 00:05:24 present+ MURATA 00:05:36 present+ Junko Kamata 00:05:38 Since I am not a W3C member, I do not have access rights. 00:05:57 present+ 00:06:50 Murata-san, please use the link Wendy typed above 00:07:09 Thanks! 00:07:37 Topic: EPUB WG Charter Review 00:08:04 https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/ 00:08:10 ^ Repo 00:08:20 Viewable version https://w3c.github.io/epub-3-wg-charter/ 00:08:36 Issues: https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/issues 00:08:41 Wendy: current status is that it is in the public phase and we are expecting any comments 00:09:14 ...please feel free to file github issues in Japanese or english, however you are comfortable 00:09:30 ...we have had several issues and are addressing 00:09:57 ...once the process is done it will go to the W3C membership for approval 00:10:08 ...likely a 6-week period for review due to corona 00:10:15 ...highlights of the charter 00:10:27 ...backwards compatibility is a core and main deliverable 00:10:52 So, we are not going to repeat the mistake of 3.1. 00:11:02 ...EPUB 3.2 it is based on, but we are calling it 3.x 00:11:23 ...will ensure that previous EPUB3 files are compatible 00:11:53 ...internationalization and accessibility are key, as is getting it as far into the W3C ecosystem for what it is 00:12:30 +q 00:12:40 ack murata 00:12:54 Murata: there have been 11 issues in the github 00:13:14 ...I'm concerned that some part of the process will break backwards compatibility 00:13:25 q+ 00:13:25 q+ 00:13:34 ...this is not the right time to discuss in detail, but there might be conflicts 00:13:44 ack dauwhe 00:14:02 +q 00:14:04 Dave: backwards compatibility is organizing principle, but we are bound by W3C process 00:14:36 ...some of these things we can't say ahead of time exactly how many implementations are of every feature 00:15:10 ...think it is perhaps early to think that there are features that are widely used and not implemented 00:15:29 ...we plan to be careful and don't foresee causing problems for existing content 00:15:33 ack wendy 00:15:45 q+ 00:16:05 Wendy: significant advantage relative to rec track is that EPUB has at least 100 implementations 00:16:23 ...there are tools, reading systems and many implementations 00:16:57 ...there are unlikely places there is only one implementation of a feature and if we find that, it will 00:17:13 ...give us a good place for discussion about why that is the case and how to go forward 00:17:36 ...features will likely make things stronger 00:17:43 ack Murata 00:17:48 q+ 00:17:52 Murata: cannot name one feature 00:17:56 q+ 00:18:22 ...think if that happens we should consider not invalidating and bend 00:18:48 ...cannot drop the feature 00:18:54 ack Daihei 00:19:15 Daihei: clarify from earlier message prepping for github 00:19:45 ...backward compatibility is a given premise and in the blog post from the SC f2f 00:20:02 ...that says "unless it uses a feature never implemented anywhere" 00:20:18 ...hope to add a few features requested by survey respondents 00:21:05 ...if this will cause any kind of issues and any problems with the business ecosystem 00:21:19 ...this could harm the industry globally 00:21:44 ...should not cause any issues with backward compatibility and current EPUB3 business ecosystem 00:21:46 q+ 00:21:55 ack Shinya 00:22:28 ShinyaTakami: two things important: backwards compatibility and existing EPUB should be considered 00:22:52 ...another point discussion raised in the charter of the difference between 3.2 and 3.x 00:23:08 ...content format is HTML5 or XHTML5 00:23:19 ...we should separate discussion in this topic 00:23:32 +1 00:23:35 ...converting from one to another is a big issue 00:23:44 q+ to talk about HTML5 00:23:46 ...we should separate the discussion of changing of features 00:23:54 Even allowing non-XML HTML is a big issue. 00:23:57 scribe+ 00:24:11 liisamk: I think there's a value to coming back to Wendy's point about implementations 00:24:22 ... there's a variety of implementations in our current business ecosystem 00:24:32 ... it is unusual for the way that W3C process usually works 00:24:41 ... we're talking about all of the reading systems and tools and browsers 00:24:58 q? 00:24:58 q? 00:25:02 ack liisamk 00:25:03 ack lii 00:25:05 ack wendy 00:25:44 Wendy: worth having discussion about the draft charter, but until we start the work 00:25:54 ...we don't know the answers to all of the questions 00:26:28 ...html5 serialization is a topic, but we haven't made promises of what the new EPUB will look like yet 00:26:38 ...charter is a guiding doc 00:27:09 ...survey results and feedback some of it could be EPUB 3.x 00:27:17 q+ 00:27:32 ...some of it may be a foundation for some future 00:27:55 ...many of the changes will be just a better implementation 00:28:06 ack dauwhe 00:28:06 dauwhe, you wanted to talk about HTML5 00:28:31 Dauwhe: new features and compatibility, the biggest change we will talk about is allowing 00:28:39 ...the serialization of html5 00:29:07 ...but that expands and does not impact any existing epubs or need to convert 00:29:23 ...gives us chance of making epub a little more flexibile 00:29:44 q+ 00:29:45 ack ShinyaTakami 00:30:01 q+ 00:30:34 ShinyaTakami: this is coming from a CG and as a member of BG can't participate in the new WG 00:31:09 ...concerned that changes may happen, but cannot attend and want to address 00:31:20 ack Daihei 00:31:44 q+ 00:31:53 Daihei: would like a proposal for how the progress of the WG can be shared with people 00:32:02 ...who cannot participate in the WG 00:32:52 ...having used and adding feature, we are not saying that we don't want to make epub better 00:33:25 ...anything that would cause issue with files would be a problem 00:33:51 +1 00:33:58 ...epub 3.x will need to be faithful to this bottomline of not causing existing business any issues 00:34:01 +1 00:34:07 ack dauwhe 00:34:25 Dauwhe: moving from CG to WG, have had some concerns too 00:34:45 ...we are committed to operating publicly and github will be open to comments from anyone 00:34:54 ...much of the real work takes place there 00:35:08 ...the chairs will give progress reports to the BG 00:35:25 ...we can go a long way with good communication and working publicly 00:35:27 ack wendy 00:36:26 Wendy: the PWG has been open about their work and we will continue 00:37:08 ...trying to address html5 serialization is technical, and we don't want to get into the weeds 00:37:55 ...old epubs with xhtml will be just as valid, the only issue may be new css like flexbox (as an example) 00:38:08 ...adding new ways to create epub, not taking away old ways to do it 00:40:35 jkamata: this rec track process and epub 3.x should be welcome 00:40:53 ...there could be issues to be resolved such as epubcheck and other tools and browser vendors 00:41:13 ...conforming to the changes might take time and there are concerns 00:41:36 ...if the business and environment can catch up to the epub 3.x 00:41:56 q+ 00:41:58 ...her company Voyager is concerned about how the epubcheck tool will also be updated for the new spec 00:42:16 ack wendy 00:42:41 q+ 00:42:55 wendyreid: we chose not to mention epubcheck it is not under the spec jurisdiction 00:43:17 ...the same model we are using now for funding would continue and build a new version 00:43:26 q+ 00:43:45 ack dauwhe 00:44:14 dauwhe: epubcheck is a critical part of the ecosystem and the spec is what epubcheck says it is 00:44:29 ...we would not release a new version unless fully supported by epubcheck from day 1 00:44:33 +1 00:44:38 +1 00:44:51 liisamk: I was going to say something similar to Dave 00:45:02 ... it came out of the BG and SC work, we engaged DAISY to do the work 00:45:07 ... we fundraised for it 00:45:22 ... we won't be dropping that, the community will find a way to make sure EPUBCheck stays in sync 00:45:40 ack liisamk 00:48:04 translate for ??: anxious to know how to see rec track process will affect spec 00:48:20 ...there must be different point of view from different domains of business 00:48:42 ...DAISY of course want to be faithful to reading systems and accessibility and some people want 00:48:55 ...to make sure that media overlay is going along well enough 00:49:08 ...browser development could be a key issue 00:49:20 +1 For example, some Japanese textbook publisher heavily uses SSML. Different communities have different requirements. 00:49:23 ...different point of view could affect 00:49:42 [Ralph arrives] 00:50:04 ...reading system based on 3.0.1 and move to 3.x and will it will match or not have to look into 00:50:13 Changes from 3.0.1 to 3.2 https://www.w3.org/publishing/epub32/epub-changes.html 00:50:50 Topic: blog post from Publishing@W3C- comments? 00:51:12 Topic: epubcheck fundraising 00:51:27 Daihei: we are still in need of approximately $15k 00:51:45 ...need to make clear that to complete epubcheck we still need to fundraise 00:52:02 ...need help to raise $$ 00:52:22 ...please help! 00:52:31 Topic: PBG going forward 00:53:02 Daihei: there was a long discussion at the SC about how we can revitalize the Asia participation 00:53:17 skk has joined #pbg 00:53:24 ...want to make sure that everyone is heard and has opportunities to participate 00:57:00 jyoshii: will try reaching out to publishers and participants who are entitled to join in and invite 00:57:21 Topic: Next PBG Meeting have guest speaker 00:59:00 Daihei: have guest to explain what EDRLab has been doing for new reading systems 00:59:11 I have to leave. Thanks. Bye. 00:59:40 liisamk: Laurent Lemeur will join us and will present shortly on the advancement of the reference system 00:59:51 Topic: W3C Slack 01:00:03 Daihei: please join in the slack that was referenced in the agenda 01:00:11 ...any comments? 01:00:29 ...goodnight! 01:00:43 zakim, please end meeting 01:00:43 As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, wendyreid, jyoshii_, liisamk, Shinya_Takami, ShinyaTakami, Daihei, MURATA, Junko, Kamata 01:00:45 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 01:00:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/04/14-pbg-minutes.html Zakim 01:00:48 I am happy to have been of service, dauwhe; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 01:00:52 Zakim has left #pbg 01:02:43 RRSAgent: please excuse us 01:04:14 RRSAgent: please make logs team-visible 01:04:26 RRSAgent: please excuse us 01:04:26 I see no action items