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15:53:58 <dauwhe> Meeting: Publishing Working Group telecon
15:54:33 <dauwhe> Chair: Wendy Reid
15:58:07 <wendyreid> Date: 2020-03-23
15:58:33 <Kenneth> Kenneth has joined #pwg
15:58:37 <wendyreid> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2020Mar/0021.html
15:59:14 <wendyreid> Regrets+ teenya, laudrain, rkwright, geoffjukes
15:59:22 <dauwhe> present+
15:59:44 <wendyreid> present+
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16:01:21 <ivan> present+
16:02:56 <ivan> present+ tzviya, bigbluehat, lmeurs
16:03:03 <ivan> present+ george, marisa
16:03:15 <dauwhe> scribe+ dauwhe
16:03:23 <marisa> marisa has joined #pwg
16:03:25 <dauwhe> wendyreid: hi everyone
16:03:36 <dauwhe> ... welcome to our bimonthly call
16:03:41 <George> George has joined #pwg
16:03:43 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2020/2020-02-03-pwg
16:03:44 <dkaplan3> present+
16:03:46 <dauwhe> ... I hope y'all are healthy and are social distancing
16:03:46 <Avneesh> present+
16:03:48 <marisa> present+
16:03:57 <George> present+
16:03:57 <ivan> present+ david_stroup
16:04:02 <franco> franco has joined #pwg
16:04:12 <franco> present+
16:04:14 <ivan> present+ kenneth
16:04:21 <BenSchroeter> BenSchroeter has joined #pwg
16:04:23 <dauwhe> Topic: Testing
16:04:24 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/publ-tests
16:04:28 <BenSchroeter> present+
16:04:38 <dauwhe> wendyreid: we are still waiting on test implementations
16:04:48 <dauwhe> ... I've spoken to a few people about getting them in
16:04:53 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #pwg
16:05:00 <dauwhe> ... we have some incoming
16:05:17 <dauwhe> ... if anyone wants to run the tests but is having trouble reach out to me, ivan, or Matt
16:05:29 <dauwhe> ... we are approaching the end of the month and our deadline
16:05:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pwg
16:05:33 <dauwhe> ... but we do have some leeway
16:05:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:05:40 <dauwhe> ... we should probably extend for a month
16:05:49 <marisa> q+
16:05:55 <wendyreid> ack marisa
16:06:00 <david_stroup> present+
16:06:07 <dauwhe> marisa: I started looking at the tests
16:06:16 <dauwhe> ... and ran them on my thing
16:06:21 <dauwhe> ... I sent a PR
16:06:27 <duga> duga has joined #pwg
16:06:39 <marisa> https://marisademeglio.github.io/pubmanifest-parse/official-tests/results/audiobooks.html
16:06:39 <duga> present+
16:06:47 <marisa> https://marisademeglio.github.io/pubmanifest-parse/official-tests/results/pubmanifest.html
16:07:03 <dauwhe> ... and can contribute some results
16:07:11 <dauwhe> ... I wrote a page to step through the process
16:07:24 <dauwhe> ... and runs the library on the tests
16:07:31 <dauwhe> ... which made it easy to run
16:07:39 <ivan> q+
16:07:42 <dauwhe> ... and I opened an issue about inconsistent test naming
16:08:05 <garth> garth has joined #pwg
16:08:06 <dauwhe> ... which makes it harder to run the toc tests
16:08:07 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:08:11 <garth> present+ Garth
16:08:12 <dauwhe> ivan: that's great
16:08:25 <dauwhe> ... I made a mistake and didn't watch the test repo
16:08:35 <dauwhe> ... I will look at the PR tomorrow
16:08:46 <dauwhe> wendyreid: and there's another PR
16:09:30 <ivan> q+
16:09:42 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:10:01 <dauwhe> ivan: there's not a deadline; it's more the dates from which we can decide we can go to PR
16:10:17 <dauwhe> ... even if were ready and had 15 implementations, we couldn't move to PR before the end of the month
16:10:21 <dauwhe> ... so we don't have to do anything
16:10:34 <dauwhe> ... we can just wait until we have enough implementations to move forward
16:10:40 <dauwhe> wendyreid: even better :)
16:11:03 <dauwhe> ivan: that being said, we have the same calculation in another WG
16:11:28 <dauwhe> ... if we want to publish the REC before charter runs out, we should start next step at beginning of May at the latest
16:11:38 <dauwhe> wendyreid: that was the mental deadline I was setting for myself
16:11:45 <ivan> present+ billk
16:11:51 <dauwhe> ... pub manifest and audiobooks have been updated based on feedback from testing
16:12:17 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/blog/2020/03/listen-to-the-people-the-future-of-epub-and-new-directions-for-publishing-w3c/
16:12:18 <dauwhe> Topic: Blog Post
16:12:55 <dauwhe> wendyreid: the PBGSC plus W3M met in late February to discuss the future of the pub activity
16:13:00 <dauwhe> ... nothing changes for the WG
16:13:14 <dauwhe> ... we're still working towards our deadline and publish our specs and our work will be done
16:13:27 <dauwhe> ... we're gonna move EPUB to rec track, if all goes well with the charter
16:13:32 <ivan> -> proposed epub 3 wg charter https://w3c.github.io/epub-3-wg-charter/
16:13:48 <dauwhe> ... you can post issues and questions on the charter
16:14:04 <dauwhe> ... and the PCG is going to become our incubation arm
16:14:45 <garth> q?
16:14:53 <garth> q+
16:14:53 <dauwhe> ... that's the major update
16:14:58 <wendyreid> ack garth
16:14:58 <ivan> present+ garth
16:15:14 <dauwhe> garth: I wanted to re-interpret the previous agenda item as testing + implementation
16:15:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:15:29 <dauwhe> wendyreid: any questions about blog post?
16:15:34 <wendyreid> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:15:43 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: Ralph sent a message
16:15:57 <dauwhe> ... since there's a lot of people in EPUB 3 CG, that group is getting renamed
16:16:21 <dauwhe> ... and there are few people in the PCG who aren't in EPUB 3 CG; they will get instructions on how to switch
16:16:32 <dauwhe> wendyreid: please join the CGs if you haven't already
16:16:36 <ivan> q+
16:16:40 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:16:54 <dauwhe> garth: I joined late so perhaps we talked about implementation
16:17:08 <dauwhe> ... Google has failed to implement by now, and Kobo is probably not done
16:17:12 <dauwhe> ... and Blackstone
16:17:21 <dauwhe> ... I haven't given up hope for a Google implementation
16:17:46 <dauwhe> ... but I wanted ivan to talk about... the implementation requirements to move the spec
16:18:06 <dauwhe> ... can we count matt and ivan's implementation? Or do we need these other implementations?
16:18:43 <dauwhe> ivan: I want to keep the fire going to get those implementions done
16:18:53 <dauwhe> ... the CR requirements are based on the assumptions
16:19:10 <dauwhe> ... that implementations prove that the spec is implementable and correct
16:19:25 <dauwhe> ... and so matt and my implementations may fulfil the requirements
16:19:44 <dauwhe> ... but they are not part of any reading systems, it does not satisfy the spirit of the rules
16:20:07 <dauwhe> ... implementations are on the way
16:20:22 <dauwhe> ... but what is relevant for the tests can already be documented
16:20:45 <dauwhe> ... the director would look at whether the implementations give confidence that the spec will be used in real products
16:21:33 <dauwhe> ... UI stuff doesn't matter, but if these implementations can pass the core tests that would be good
16:21:47 <dauwhe> ... there is one area where we are weak
16:21:59 <dauwhe> ... the tests on user agent behaviour
16:22:04 <dauwhe> ... those are not tested at all
16:22:17 <dauwhe> ... that part of the report is empty
16:22:27 <dauwhe> ... are those normative or informative features?
16:22:31 <dauwhe> wendyreid: informative
16:22:37 <dauwhe> ... not required for passing
16:23:02 <dauwhe> garth: that's helpfu
16:23:04 <dauwhe> ...l
16:23:18 <dauwhe> garth: this type of spec is a chicken/egg thing
16:23:30 <dauwhe> ... if our ingest pipeline is functional
16:23:38 <dauwhe> ... and I could demonstrate things
16:23:51 <dauwhe> ... that would be helpful, even if publishers aren't delivering books in that format?
16:23:53 <dauwhe> ivan: it's helpful
16:24:01 <dauwhe> ... I don't know if the director would be happy
16:24:06 <dauwhe> ... but would be way better than now
16:24:16 <dauwhe> wendyreid: that's how our implementation will be too
16:24:19 <garth> q?
16:24:29 <dauwhe> ivan: I can judge the reaction on these things
16:24:56 <dauwhe> ... if we feel that by extending the WG by two or three months to have a more mature implementation would make it look better, we could ask for that
16:25:02 <dauwhe> ... they would probably say OK
16:25:11 <dauwhe> ... to extend the charter into autumn
16:25:24 <dauwhe> ... if that would give us a more impressive set of implementation
16:25:31 <dauwhe> ... I cannot guarantee such an extension
16:26:01 <dauwhe> ... I would wait until May to make such a decision
16:26:10 <dauwhe> wendyreid: we can wait
16:26:16 <ivan> q+
16:26:19 <dauwhe> ... anything else?
16:26:21 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:26:58 <ivan> https://w3c.github.io/epub-3-wg-charter/
16:27:05 <dauwhe> ivan: as information, the charter proposal for EPUB 3 WG is on github
16:27:13 <dauwhe> ... we notified the AC members that this work is happening
16:27:54 <dauwhe> ... it's up to W3M etc when we think this charter is ready for a formal AC vote (six weeks); at the end of those six weeks it will be May
16:28:09 <dauwhe> ... we can set up group if the AC approves
16:28:16 <dauwhe> ... so people in this group should look at the charter
16:28:20 <dauwhe> ... give us input
16:28:26 <dauwhe> ... PRs, comments, etc
16:28:38 <dauwhe> ... if you are AC rep or know your AC rep, get them to vote
16:28:59 <dauwhe> ... there is a hope that we would start the group on 1 July
16:29:17 <dauwhe> ... but then world events intervened
16:29:22 <dauwhe> wendyreid: thanks ivan
16:29:25 <George> q+
16:29:29 <wendyreid> ack George
16:29:52 <dauwhe> George: it's a tool, an authoring tool for audiobook publishers was made available where they could order their list of files,
16:30:00 <dauwhe> ... and the tool would generate the manifest files
16:30:09 <dauwhe> ... would that be an implementation? It's an authoring tool
16:30:13 <dauwhe> wendyreid: yes
16:30:16 <dauwhe> ivan: absolutely
16:30:52 <dauwhe> wendyreid: Lars has convinced a company to implement a tool
16:30:58 <Avneesh> q+
16:31:03 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
16:31:14 <dauwhe> Avneesh: George was talking about Obi (???)
16:31:33 <dauwhe> ... I may not be able to implement in one month, but let's see how it goes. I'm catching up with a lot of tasks.
16:31:42 <dauwhe> George: Obi is so close to what is needed already
16:31:57 <dauwhe> ... and it's a great tool and fully accessible
16:32:09 <dauwhe> wendyreid: if there's anything we can do to help let me know
16:32:15 <dauwhe> ... it doesn't have to be ready to ship
16:32:43 <dauwhe> ... any other comments?
16:33:01 <dauwhe> ... we will talk again in two weeks.
16:33:09 <dauwhe> ... take care and be safe and healthy.
16:33:19 <dauwhe> RRSAgent: please draft minutes
16:33:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/23-pwg-minutes.html dauwhe
16:33:24 <dauwhe> RRSAgent: make logs public
16:33:24 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
16:33:24 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, wendyreid, ivan, tzviya, bigbluehat, lmeurs, george, marisa, dkaplan, Avneesh, david_stroup, franco, kenneth, BenSchroeter,
16:33:27 <Zakim> ... Bill_Kasdorf, duga, Garth, billk
16:33:27 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:33:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/23-pwg-minutes.html Zakim
16:33:30 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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16:34:13 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:34:13 <RRSAgent> I see no action items