14:59:38 RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc 14:59:38 logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/03/20-pbgsc-irc 14:59:48 Zakim has joined #pbgsc 14:59:55 Avneesh has joined #pbgsc 15:00:01 Meeting: Publishing SC 15:00:10 Date: 2020--03-20 15:01:08 ivan has joined #pbgsc 15:01:15 present+ 15:01:22 present+ 15:01:26 Daihei has joined #pbgsc 15:01:31 Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc 15:01:32 present+ 15:02:35 present+ 15:02:54 Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee Telco 15:02:54 Chair: ralph 15:02:54 Date: 2020-03-20 15:02:54 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2020Mar/0006.html 15:02:59 liisamk has joined #pbgsc 15:03:04 present+ 15:03:12 present+ 15:03:27 garth has joined #pbgsc 15:03:33 present+ Garth 15:03:59 mateus has joined #pbgsc 15:04:07 present+ 15:04:11 present+ 15:05:03 present+ cristina, yoshii, billk, mateus 15:05:22 present+ dauwhe 15:05:27 scribenick: mateus 15:06:52 present+ 15:07:21 present+ ralph 15:07:23 tzviya: welcome everyone, to our slightly redesigned steering committee... we haven't kicked anybody off. rachel is not here with us because macmillan is leaving w3c... but we have a slightly different structure. 15:07:31 https://www.w3.org/blog/2020/03/listen-to-the-people-the-future-of-epub-and-new-directions-for-publishing-w3c/ 15:07:41 Ralph has joined #pbgsc 15:07:52 present+ 15:07:53 ... first item on the agenda is the publishing blog post... thank you everyone (esp dauwhe) for contributions! please broadcast widely and let people know about our new direction 15:08:27 ... this has publicized the charter for the EPUB 3 WG... and already saw some mild comments on the charter... the news is out there, but it's a weird time to publicize this because people are focused on other things right now 15:08:32 ... any thoughts on this? 15:08:34 q+ 15:08:40 ack li 15:09:01 q+ 15:09:08 liisamk: i'll promote this in the bg, and expect to see comments from japan on the charter... makoto was very anxious to see what the charter looks like, and to envision how this will be in the w3c framework 15:09:16 tzviya: i see he started to add issues to epub 3.2 15:09:24 ack ivan 15:09:25 ... it's certainly helpful to have comments to get us started 15:09:41 ivan: makoto put issues on the charter as well 15:10:15 ... and we also have a comment on edupub... those of you who were involved with edupub should look at the issues because we are not the ones who should really react on it 15:10:36 -> https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/issues Issues on draft EPUB3 WG charter 15:10:41 tzviya: switching kids! ... welcome to life as we know it 15:10:53 q+ 15:11:06 ack George 15:11:07 Ralph: we'll all have to acknowledge each other's personal challenges in this new environment :) 15:11:46 q+ 15:11:48 George: the edupub thing... epub for education... i think with the accessibility spec and the work we've done on that arena... unless there are some semantics that are needed, i think i should just be replying to those issues that we don't know that it's needed 15:11:50 ack wendyreid 15:11:50 q+ 15:11:51 q+ 15:12:20 wendyreid: it's worth responding... not sure where he's coming from re his interest... but it seems his involvement is quite advanced 15:12:29 -> Edupub related issue https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter/issues/3 15:12:50 ... the reason we weren't focused on edupub was lack of implementation... but it seems like there might even be a separate reading system model for edupub-based documents 15:12:53 Cristina has joined #pbgsc 15:12:59 jyoshii_ has joined #pbgsc 15:13:04 present+ 15:13:05 ... i pointed him in the direction of the CG, and proposed that we start a TF to focus on edupub and related docs 15:13:13 present+ 15:13:19 ... sounds like we have a lead for a TF... sounds like he's going in the right direction 15:13:23 ack ivan 15:13:55 ivan: i'm a little bit worried because that issue and the discussions there should be related to the epub wg charter... and we can agree or disagree with this, but it's not something for the charter, but something that the cg should pick up 15:14:07 ... this is typically the kind of thing we discussed the cg should work with 15:14:28 [Adam has joined 16 CGs across a variety of areas] 15:14:30 ... if we agree with this, i propose we transfer the issue to the cg list rather than keep it in this one, because we should concentrate on the wg charter 15:14:40 ... and not get in the habit of having all kinds of other distracting discussions 15:14:40 ack mateus 15:14:47 scribe+ 15:15:32 Mateus: I was (briefly) involved in EDUPUB 5 years ago and saw limited uptake 15:16:32 tzviya: most of us who tried to implement it, most of the bells and whistles were not necessary 15:16:40 ... the only thing that was useful were structural semantics 15:16:55 ... that's something we need to solve in the wg, edupub aside 15:16:57 +100 15:17:03 q+ 15:17:20 it's a bad week to stop sniffing glue... 15:17:50 ivan: related to this, but on a very practical level, in the blog, the way we stated the epub cg... saying it would happily continue and renamed as publishing cg, let by mateus and jeff xu 15:18:17 ... how can we make the transition administratively and practically? and where do i put this issue? not in the epub cg, but in the publishing cg? 15:18:24 Ralph: we can take an action to figure that out offline 15:18:43 ... there's some team admin stuff that we'll need to redo, like renaming a cg... 15:19:37 action: Ivan work with Ralph to rename epub cg and move repo issues to new cg repos 15:19:53 q+ 15:20:08 ... anyone care to comment how frequently you'll be looking at issues? ivan and i will have a substantial role there, as will dauwhe and wendyreid 15:20:25 wendyreid: i'm getting all the emails directly to my inbox, so i'm trying to keep on top of them and am happy to continue 15:20:29 q+ 15:20:55 -> EPUB 3 EG Charter proposal repo https://github.com/w3c/epub-3-wg-charter 15:20:56 Ralph: if there's an answer you're confident on giving, do so; if there's discussion, we can use this meeting or ad-hoc conversations to figure out an authoritative answer to those things 15:21:20 ivan: maybe not everyone realizes that we're talking about the charter proposal, which is now in public 15:21:30 ... this is now in a repo, and there's also a human-readable version 15:21:33 -> charter proposal https://w3c.github.io/epub-3-wg-charter/ 15:22:02 ... an official notification about the fact we're working on this has already gone to the AC... so the whole of the AC should now know about it and will hopefully give us comments 15:22:24 ... unless a thorny issue comes out in the discussion, we've given ourselves about a month before going to the AC vote 15:22:50 ... we'd need to find consensus if any major issues come out first, otherwise we'd put it up for a vote early may or late april 15:23:45 Ralph: thanks for summarizing the next steps about the charter and wg itself... there's nothing magic about "a month"... we have discussions until they taper off, and this group can decide on the milestone, but obviously one question will be continuity from the current wg into the next phase, but we'll continue discussion as long as there's still productive discussion 15:23:58 ... given that we all have other things on our minds, it might be longer than a month 15:24:08 ... anything more about the blog post? 15:24:24 topic: Bill Kasdorf's new role in Publishing@W3C 15:24:36 ... next item proposed in the agenda, is for Bill_Kasdorf to introduce his new role 15:25:28 -> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/evangelists/ "W3C Evangelists" (what they are, how to become one) 15:25:34 Bill_Kasdorf: i have now agreed to take on the title of global publishing evangelist for the w3c... i've been a cheerleader for publishing and w3c for as long as i've been involved, but informally... jeff approached me about this new initiative for evangelists, and to spread the word to encourage more people to join, etc. 15:26:18 ... i had a good discussion with Alan Bird, and it seems to be a good role for me, formalizing it a bit... having some tools for outreach and processes for reaching out on behalf of w3c officially 15:26:33 ... something i've been passionate about is involving other sectors that haven't been involved... 15:26:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/20-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph 15:27:11 ... macmillan leaving is a major loss... but i've reached out to Rick Johnson (VitalSource) because we've been wanting to get him back 15:27:51 ... they're hugely influential in educational publishing and a11y, why aren't they members? i think i need to approach it on the Ingram level instead, and see where that goes 15:28:04 ... i would love to get them signed up because they're hugely important in the book industry in general 15:28:16 chair: Tzviya, Ralph 15:28:50 ... there's a monthly call with evangelists, which i attended, and one of the others was talking about payments... and i think that's really of potential interest to publishers, but it's a side of w3c that they might not be tuned into at all 15:28:51 i/tzviya: welcome/Topic: The Publishing@W3C blog post 15:29:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/20-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph 15:29:21 ... what else in the scope of w3c might be really important to publishers? and i can put folks in touch so they can be part of the conversation, and part of the publishing conversation 15:29:33 q+ 15:29:45 Ralph: thank you very much, Bill_Kasdorf... tzviya made a comment to reach out to Firebrand as well 15:30:03 ... welcome, Bill_Kasdorf, it's great to have you in this slightly more formal role in w3c 15:30:31 ... this does come under our business development function, and it clearly has that orientation, so i'm pleased to have Bill_Kasdorf to help with that 15:31:01 ... Karen is general bizdev, and Bill_Kasdorf is focused in particular sector 15:31:52 George: Daisy has a really good communications network with inclusivepublishing.org newsletter, and another newsletter geared more for our partners... and we'll help in any way we can, if there's communication you want to get out in those vehicles... we're happy to have you participate 15:32:21 Bill_Kasdorf: i'll take you up on that... one of the things that's particularly important about that is that a11y and i18n are fundamentally important to everybody 15:32:41 i/Ralph: anyone care to comment/subtopic: EPUB3 WG charter 15:33:19 Ralph: tzviya and i also agreed to be the regular chairs of this SC meeting, for all the chairs of our adopted communities... 15:34:16 ... in conversation with jeff, we've been talking about how to get a publishing champion for w3c... the sense is that that role is distributed among the 3-4 (3.5, including jeff's involvement) of us... between the evangelist activities and the coordination of the CGs and future WG, collectively we make up most of the role of the champion 15:34:50 ... we'll put on hold the idea of formally recruiting a publishing champion... we're collectively the champions for the communities, with some specific roles for me, tzviya, Bill_Kasdorf, and jeff 15:34:55 ... any additional comments? 15:35:29 ... Bill_Kasdorf, please share with us any updates you want, whether you want a regular agenda item on this call, or only on news-to-share basis 15:35:49 Bill_Kasdorf: certainly, and i'll work with you to talk to candidates as well 15:36:19 Ralph: one thing to be a little sensitive about is outreach to specific individuals or companies, and Bill_Kasdorf can guide us on that 15:37:47 Bill_Kasdorf: one thing that might be beyond the scope of what we've been talking about is IPTC, a technical organization in news orgs, and i always thought they should be involved; epub specifically may not be super relevant, but the web in general is 15:37:51 q+ 15:38:16 ... i'll be chatting with them and attending meetings to see where we can go with that 15:38:51 tzviya: i think news orgs are probably joining for privacy, credible web, advertising, maybe a11y, but not publishing 15:39:25 Bill_Kasdorf: yes, that was one of my first insights... the approach is not necessarily what we're trying to sell them, but asking what issues are of concern and where in w3c there are activities relevant to that, then making the connections 15:39:54 ... the difficulty in recruiting people outside of book industry, is most people assume publishing means books 15:40:10 ... that approach doesn't work all that well, and instead go the route tzviya is suggesting 15:40:36 ... focusing on the issues, rather than industries 15:40:59 Ralph: and let's not be too discouraged... many organizations have one or two individuals who would really like to be in w3c but haven't persuaded their organization to join yet 15:41:17 ... the impetus might not be publishing, but some, e.g., in Washington Post, could be 15:41:31 ... advertising in particular is getting a lot of attention 15:41:39 topic: EPUB Survey results thus far 15:41:43 ... i think we're ready to move on to the next topic 15:41:50 ... EPUB survey results 15:42:02 q+ 15:42:03 2q+ 15:42:07 q+ 15:42:07 q+ 15:42:26 lissamk: haven't had much chance to look 15:43:20 dauwhe: was out most of this week and didn't have access to internet or running water, so didn't have a chance to look at results, but we should think about when to close the survey... if we are getting more input from japan after translation, we might wait... but all of this is because BISG has been generous about lending their surveymonkey account... and i don't want to impose indefinitely 15:43:33 q+ 15:43:50 Mateus: Wendy and I discussed going through the issues after the Hoboken F2F 15:44:03 ... I have focused on the open-ended responses 15:44:11 ... categorizing them 15:44:35 ... still in progress 15:45:24 wendyreid: been putting together slides of the issues that are more quantifiable into things like graphs, not in a place to share yet, but i will as soon as it is... it's been confirming a lot of the things we knew already, and the data is interesting, but there's a lot to go through 15:45:47 Ralph: we have a LOT of input from the survey, which is great, but will take more effort than expected 15:46:27 Daihei: as liisamk pointed out, there are comments included from the japanese respondents, but they replied in japanese, so somebody needs to look it over and review, making translations as necessary so we can incorporate them into the data repository 15:46:34 q+ 15:46:38 q+ 15:46:49 ... i hate to tell you but i don't know where i can review all the comments in japanese and put them back with a translation... so can someone guide me? 15:47:07 ... already asked some of my colleagues to help me translate and organize comments and put back into the data source 15:47:44 lissamk: i recommend you go back to the sheet dauwhe sent, and look for the text in japanese... and give back a sheet where you have the translations 15:48:01 Daihei: can you/dauwhe send the sheet? 15:48:07 dauwhe_: i'll send the updated sheet now 15:48:44 wendyreid: i've been running some through google translate and so far the output has been understandable, haven't come across issues that don't make sense or aren's contextually appropriate... so all copy in spreadsheet now are translated 15:49:11 Daihei: so they are already in the spreadsheet, and i can review them for sense? and if there are revisions I can provide them 15:49:31 wendyreid: yes, but it's not dauwhe's spreadsheet. his sheet will not have translations 15:49:34 jeff_ has joined #pbgsc 15:49:39 ... i will share our google sheet 15:49:59 https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KEK8e7xbvyleKXqWHgijsT-xlLY5lNgj 15:50:21 Ralph: thank you all who are working on them... we understand things are slowed down due to current events and volume of data 15:50:26 ... any other comments for this meeting? 15:50:32 tzviya: George had a topic 15:50:37 topic: @@ 15:50:54 s/@@/EPUB and Education 15:51:20 George: we're starting the epub in higher ed working group, focused primarily on US, but we'll start a webinar series every wednesday at 1500UTC, and starting with announcement from publishers and vitalsource about free books available to college students through end of this semester 15:51:54 ... then moving on to sessions from various conferences that have been postponed, like CSUN publisher faceoff, word2epub, a couple on math, then london book fair and conference in sweden that had been canceled 15:52:28 ... this will be weekly, and i'll publicize this in the WG and CG... apply to all sectors in publishing... does have a11y focus, but not only 15:52:35 Ralph: thank you, George! 15:52:48 George: we will share info and sign-up lists... in process of getting it all sorted 15:53:03 Ralph: kudos for reacting in positive ways to this new environment we'll be in for a few months! 15:53:04 q? 15:53:31 q+ 15:54:03 ... thank you all for being here, Bill_Kasdorf and tzviya for the new roles... we've all worked together for a long time... in the current global situation we need to be extra kind to each other, we won't be up to the same pace and don't need to apologize too much about missing deadlines and things like that... things are going to be slowed down for a period of time 15:55:19 Cristina: just want to bring you a little of what's happening in Italy and what happens when you're stuck at home for weeks... it's really important that people not move... i still see people talking about this like influenza, but in italy we have more people die than in china... this is different, and the only way to find a solution until a medical one, is to not be in contact with people 15:55:55 ... we have a very good health system, but it's a very big problem... if you need advice or suggestion, please reach out.... but please take care of yourself, parents, older people 15:56:46 Ralph: thank you, Cristina, i know i feel guilty as our chinese colleagues were going through this in Jan and Feb, and our w3c colleagues were cooped up at home, and we didn't acknowledge more the challenges they were going through... now we're learning, and thank you for sharing your experience 15:57:16 Cristina: this is exactly like an earthquake, war... it's difficult to think everyone can make a change, but it's very important 15:58:02 Ralph: i see news report of not taking this seriously... the message you're spreading is very important. thank you for emphasizing that. and to be kind to each other. life will be different an difficult. 15:58:18 s/an difficult/and difficult 15:58:56 tzviya: we'll discuss epubcheck next time in two weeks 15:59:03 zakim, end meeting 15:59:03 As of this point the attendees have been George, wendyreid, Bill_Kasdorf, ivan, liisamk, Avneesh, Garth, tzviya, mateus, cristina, yoshii, billk, dauwhe, dauwhe_, ralph, jyoshii_ 15:59:07 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 15:59:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/20-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim 15:59:09 I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 15:59:13 Zakim has left #pbgsc 16:00:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/20-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph 16:00:30 So far I ran my stuff through my on script, but if you want to use the 'regular' thing, that is fine with me 16:00:34 you decide:-) 16:00:41 it is a new world... 16:01:09 well. I appreciate what your script does but it puts all the burden on you! 16:01:32 for this group it may be just o.k. to have it the traditional way 16:01:44 there is no separate web site for the group 16:01:53 ok 16:02:01 ie, there is no reason to have it in markdown 16:02:14 so that is fine with me and takes some stuff off my back 16:02:26 +1 16:03:33 rrsagent, bye 16:03:33 I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2020/03/20-pbgsc-actions.rdf : 16:03:33 ACTION: Ivan work with Ralph to rename epub cg and move repo issues to new cg repos [1] 16:03:33 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2020/03/20-pbgsc-irc#T15-19-37