IRC log of tt on 2020-03-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/03/05-tt-irc
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
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Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2020/02/27-tt-minutes.html
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scribe: nigel
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Present: Andreas, Cyril, Gary, Pierre, Nigel
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Chair: Gary, Nigel
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Regrets: none
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Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/99
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Present+ Atsushi
16:03:07 [atsushi]
present+
16:03:23 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
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Nigel: Lots to cover today - IMSC 1.2 feature requests, IMSC 1.2 CR CfC, TTML2 CR Tests,
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.. and DST switch.
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Present+ Glenn
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.. Is there any other business to cover, or particular points to cover not listed on the agenda?
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group: [none]
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Topic: IMSC 1.2 New feature requests
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Nigel: We have recently had 3 new feature requests for IMSC 1.2.
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.. We need to decide if we go for CR based on the IMSC 1.2 FPWD or do editorial work
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.. to support some of these feature requests.
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Cyril: Timeline of Rec - assuming most aggressive schedule, is Rec in 4-5 months
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.. reasonable?
16:07:08 [atsushi]
https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?fpwd=2019-11-28
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Nigel: 28 days for PR from CR, assuming we have no tests to complete, then a few weeks
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.. to REC. The hold up might be the call for exclusions period.
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Atsushi: The Call for Exclusion period is 60 days. For IMSC 1.2 this would be completed on April 26.
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Nigel: In that case the period would be 2 months before Rec.
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Cyril: Assuming all transitions would go well.
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.. I think the CfC still has a week to run, then the transitions have to happen.
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.. From a Netflix perspective if IMSC 1.2 is going to be published in more than 3 months (roughly)
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.. then we will not insist on having the feature in IMSC 1.2 because we will not be able to change our plans anyway.
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Nigel: Confused - do you mean less than 3 months?
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Cyril: let's say we add fontShear to IMSC 1.2 today. If Rec publication would be more than 3
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.. months from now it wouldn't fit Netflix timeline so we would not insist on that.
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.. We still want the feature but we would wait for the next version.
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.. Maybe I was a little over-optimistic before.
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Nigel: For me that is a clear steer that we should proceed with IMSC 1.2 as is, and
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.. soon open up for new requirements for IMSC 1.3 including the three recently raised,
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.. which simplifies things a lot. Any views from others in the group?
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group: [silence]
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Nigel: I think silence means everyone agrees that is the right answer.
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Pierre: Yes.
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Nigel: Thanks for reminding us of the CfC Cyril. That has 1 week to run, and currently
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.. no objections.
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-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2020Feb/0017.html Call for Consensus to publish IMSC 1.2 CR
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Nigel: We now have the choice of iterating through the three new issues to register that
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.. we will consider them for the next version.
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Pierre: I don't think we should rush ahead with those - there may be impacts on TTML2
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.. and CSS, so we cannot make a judgement call now.
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.. There may be some that we decided not to do in the past because they are too hard.
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.. We need to come prepared to discuss them with plenty of time.
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Nigel: OK, this is the sort of thing where a face to face meeting (if we can have those)
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.. would be quite useful.
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Nigel: I will add a note offline to the new issues saying we mentioned them in today's
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.. call and will consider them for future versions of IMSC 1.2, etc.
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Pierre: Thanks.
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Nigel: The status of the CfC at the moment is that it still stands.
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Topic: TTML2 2nd Edition CR Publication - Tests
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Nigel: Thanks to everyone, chiefly Glenn, who has worked on the ttml2-tests issues.
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.. There are some where we need to agree we don't need tests, and others where I've
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.. been insistent that we do need tests.
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Glenn: I can accommodate the request for those tests.
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Nigel: That makes me happy.
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Glenn: I can make one of the issues marked as not testable as testable.
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.. I've gone through and created issues for them and will now make a pass at
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.. creating tests - that's my test for this coming week, and I will try to deal with
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.. the reopened issue 200.
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.. If I get through those then I will also make a stab at getting one set of implementations
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.. done on TTT/TTV/TTPE so we'll see where that stands this time next week.
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Nigel: I wonder if we can seek group agreement for things we don't need to test right now.
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Glenn: Unless someone disagrees, then there are no objectiosn.
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s/iosn/ions
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Nigel: I agree, let's highlight the issues are open and ask people to review them.
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-> https://github.com/w3c/ttml2-tests/issues TTML2 tests
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Cyril: Can we recap on the status?
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Glenn: No new PRs. I created issues for all the TTML2 PRs except those I marked as
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.. untestable.
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Cyril: How many were untestable?
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Glenn: I think maybe 1..2..3 - ttml2#1099, ttml2#1109 and ttml2#1096,
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.. and that's it at the moment.
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Cyril: I agree they are not testable on those three.
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Nigel: I think I did as well.
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Glenn: Overall I created 7 new issues, and I will proceed with creating PRs in the ttml2-tests
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.. repository specifying new tests.
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.. In most of those issues I created a comment that suggested a possible test approach.
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Nigel: For at least one where there wasn't such a comment I added one.
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.. I'd ask everyone to review the 2nd Ed changes and verify that they're happy with the
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.. proposed test approach.
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Glenn: I see you raised an issue on TTML2, and I found another editorial one, so we have
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.. a couple of changes there.
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Topic: Tests in general
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Cyril: Question about tests in general. When I was reviewing the tests, especially all the
16:32:42 [nigel]
.. IMSC 1.1 tests I discovered we have lots of places where there are tests.
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.. I wonder if after this effort of going to CR we could create a single repo maybe with
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.. git submodules, and then annotating which tests should pass in which version of which
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.. spec would be really helpful to implementers.
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Glenn: Those tests are not for implementers so I would say a big N O.
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.. The sole purpose of the tests is to pass CR.
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Cyril: Still a single place for the tests would be really useful.
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Glenn: I agree but tests for implementers is a completely different effort and a significant
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.. effort too. FYI the structure of the tests there now are mostly bound to at least some
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.. implementations used during the verification process to get to Rec and it would let's say
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.. break downstream systems for verifying them, e.g. TTT if we moved them.
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.. If we want to maintain TTV being able to perform verification on TTML1 and TTML2 it
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.. would break things. If we don't care about maintaining TTV then that's a different story.
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Nigel: One path out of this would be to filter and copy existing tests into a new place,
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.. and consider the marketing value of doing that - for example we may want to put them
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.. into Web Platform Tests.
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Glenn: We should think about why we are doing this - I think it is a worthy project to make
16:39:01 [nigel]
.. interoperability tests but we would need to know who would back and fund it.
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.. The idea of web platform tests is a good one. That project if I recall was backed by a whole
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.. slew of organisations and funding from facebook and others if I recall correctly, to build
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.. the infrastructure to do that. It's a nice idea, but it doesn't sound right to me to take
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.. what we have now and restructure it.
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Topic: AOB - DST switch
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github: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/103
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Nigel: Looking at the votes on the 3 options we have 4, 4 and 3.
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q+
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ack atai2
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Andreas: I signalled my presence but want to give a stronger weight to people
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.. who regularly join and are more involved. I see for example that Cyril has a clear
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.. preference for option 1. For me option 2 is better but option 1 is not impossible and
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.. also I have to admit that I often have blocking issues, if that helps to make a decision.
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Nigel: Thank you for that.
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Cyril: I have a preference for option 1 but could live with option 2 if needed.
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Nigel: What do you think Gary?
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Gary: I would like to leave it eventually in my local time because of a block of meetings
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.. on Thursday mornings.
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Nigel: I think it's important that Chairs can attend!
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.. I could make it either way.
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Cyril: One thing to bear in mind is that we sometimes have a 2 hour session. Which is easier
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.. in that case?
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Nigel: For me that makes no difference.
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Gary: If we extend an hour after that might be easier.
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Nigel: The hour before was a historical thing from when we used to begin at 1500 UTC.
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.. (actually 1100 Boston)
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Atsushi: I have a clash an hour before so it would be easier if we make 2 hour meetings
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.. extend later.
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Nigel: Shall we say option 2?
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Gary: There don't seem to be any objections.
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Nigel: There were no down-votes. So that's done.
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.. Thanks everyone, I will adjust the meetings to suit.
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SUMMARY: Option 2 selected.
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Nigel: This means that for all the remaining meetings in March the start time will be 1600 UTC.
16:51:55 [nigel]
Pierre: Can I suggest you send an Outlook invite for the next few meetings?
16:51:58 [nigel]
Nigel: Will do.
16:52:00 [nigel]
Pierre: Thanks.
16:52:18 [nigel]
Glenn: On 2nd April it will be one hour later?
16:52:26 [nigel]
Nigel: No, earlier, 1500.
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Atsushi: I will check the TTWG website too.
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Nigel: And we should reissue the joining instructions too.
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.. The webex schedule might need adjusting too - I will cover that offline.
16:53:33 [nigel]
Topic: Meeting close
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Nigel: Thanks everyone, let's adjourn there, having completed our agenda.
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.. Meet same time UTC next week. [adjourns meeting]
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zakim, end meeting
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As of this point the attendees have been Andreas, Cyril, Gary, Pierre, Nigel, Atsushi, Glenn
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RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/05-tt-minutes.html Zakim
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I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
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s/Topic: IMSC 1.2 New feature requests/Topic: IMSC 1.2 New feature requests and CR CfC
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s/ that's my test for this coming week/ that's my plan for this coming week
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s/I see you raised an issue on TTML2/Thanks for that. I see you also raised an issue on TTML2
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RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/05-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:08:34 [nigel]
scribeOption: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
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RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/05-tt-minutes.html nigel
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s/scribeOption: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics//
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scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
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RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/03/05-tt-minutes.html nigel
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github-bot, end topic