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15:54:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:54:41 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
15:54:47 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Chairs’ Telco
15:54:47 <ivan> Chair:  liisa
15:54:47 <ivan> Date: 2020-02-07
15:54:47 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Chairs’ Telco
15:54:47 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2020Feb/0016.html
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16:00:08 <tzviya> present+
16:00:29 <wendyreid> present+
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16:01:48 <ivan> present+
16:01:56 <ivan> present+ george
16:01:56 <tzviya> present+ George
16:02:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
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16:02:07 <tzviya> regrets+ dave
16:02:12 <liisamk> present+
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16:04:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> scribe+
16:05:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> Liisa: Topic: survey. Any further edits?
16:05:19 <liisamk> q+
16:05:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> George: LIA does certification widely used in Italy. Good to have it in the survey.
16:05:39 <Avneesh> present+
16:05:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> . . . also, there are partners in other countries with Benetech's GCA. Can we find out more about other certification services?
16:06:24 <Avneesh> q+
16:06:26 <Bill_Kasdorf> Liisa: Avneesh advocated not mentioning certifiers by name.
16:06:30 <liisamk> ack liisamk
16:06:30 <laudrain> +1
16:06:37 <Avneesh> q-
16:06:41 <Bill_Kasdorf> George: That sounds right. We should be clear that it's third-party certification.
16:07:09 <laudrain> just look
16:07:12 <Bill_Kasdorf> Liisa: Has everybody answered the survey, or just looked at it?
16:07:15 <wendyreid> q+
16:07:17 <Avneesh> just looked at it
16:07:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> George: I haven't gone through the whole survey.
16:07:26 <liisamk> ack wendyreid
16:07:53 <Bill_Kasdorf> wendyreid: I've given Dave a lot of feedback and am pretty happy about where it is right now.
16:08:09 <tzviya> q+
16:08:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: We should communicate this with Dave and then we should all actually take the survey to test it out
16:08:25 <laudrain> I’ll answer it
16:08:30 <Avneesh> q+
16:08:31 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: Not sure we need to check results but I'd be happy to test it.
16:09:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> Liisa: I haven't actually seen any results so I think maybe nobody has actually tried to use it yet.
16:09:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: Dave wanted us to hold off until it's finalized
16:09:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: We also need to make sure we can go back to it, maybe has to be in the same browser we started with.
16:09:50 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:10:23 <Bill_Kasdorf> avneesh: Do we want a test run or an actual response? I would want to test its accessibility but might not answer all the questions.
16:10:30 <liisamk> ack Avneesh
16:10:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: That would be really helpful.
16:11:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> George: When are we sending it out?
16:11:10 <Avneesh> q+
16:11:12 <garth> garth has joined #pbgsc
16:11:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> Liisa: today if people test today or wait until Monday morning.
16:11:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:11:19 <garth> present+ Garth
16:11:35 <laudrain> Monday better
16:11:39 <liisamk> ack Avneesh
16:11:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> Avneesh: today is bad--late for the rest of the world. Monday is better.
16:12:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:12:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... I will need time to do the dummy test. Will report before Monday.
16:12:42 <liisamk> ack Ralph
16:12:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: okay, we'll test today, report by the weekend, send it out Sunday night (Monday in some regions).
16:13:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> Ralph: The renewal anniversary for the BG is April 1. That means all participating members that aren't full W3C members have to be invoiced on March 1.
16:14:01 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... We have a list of who that means. We'd like the co-chairs to send personal emails to the the contacts for those organizations.
16:14:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... It would be useful to mention the survey at the same time.
16:15:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> Liisa: Makes sense. We should also acknowledge whether or not the particular org has responded; if they have, thank them and say we hope they'll stay engaged.
16:15:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> Ralph: Thanks. We'll move on this.
16:15:59 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... You can indicate to me who you might want to contact.
16:16:07 <liisamk> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GlozqT4whYJ7M9xLtjRIoVbTG4uKlHpuZZ-vo5QnY_4/edit?usp=sharing
16:16:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: Also review the introductory comments going out with the survey, feel free to suggest edits.
16:17:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... We really need emails of the people who should actually receive the survey in a given org.
16:17:22 <Bill_Kasdorf> Ralph: We can get you a W3C email alias to use.
16:17:28 <tzviya> q+
16:17:34 <liisamk> ack Ralph
16:17:55 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:17:59 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: I see some minor editorial issues in the letter. How should I communicate them?
16:18:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: let us know or just do edits.
16:18:49 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: We're asking folks to share widely. How do we track whom we send this to? I've started keeping a list.
16:19:11 <tzviya> q+
16:19:22 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Should we coordinate this or not worry that somebody gets this from multiple people?
16:20:01 <Bill_Kasdorf> George: Since we're all on many of the same lists, we can see when they go out. For example, many of us are on Read 2.0, an obvious list to send it to.
16:20:05 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:20:23 <laudrain> q+
16:20:26 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: Agree with George, but we don't need to be too concerned about people getting it twice. A reminder is good.
16:20:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> George: We should be sure to make it clear that it's from Publishing@W3C.
16:21:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: If you're sharing it, we're all sharing it with the same introduction. I.e. don't freelance!
16:21:16 <liisamk> ack laudrain
16:21:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> laudrain: Maybe not so much risk of duplication outside the US.
16:22:12 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: Okay, everybody share widely, use the standard intro, we won't worry much about duplications.
16:22:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... We'll see what kind of response we get by next week.
16:22:34 <Ralph> [mail alias created: member-publishing-survey@w3.org -- with a Member-visible archive. I'll subscribe Liisa and Dave]
16:22:39 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... We may want to make some changes after a couple of weeks.
16:23:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Daihei, what about translations?
16:23:20 <tzviya> q+ to ask about other translations
16:23:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> Daihei: my plan is to start on the translation after this meeting so once it is ready I will have a Japanese version to send along with my own note in Japanese to Japanese members.
16:23:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... I plan to do that early next week.
16:23:47 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:23:47 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask about other translations
16:23:55 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: What about other translations?
16:24:05 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Should translations be done locally>
16:24:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> laudrain: I'm not planning to translated it.
16:24:37 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: What about Korea and China? Both are important EPUB markets.
16:25:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> daihei: Many of those people are comfortable using English, unlike the Japanese
16:25:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... For Korea, China, and Taiwan, I think English will suffice. I can check.
16:25:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... I think the English version should go out first anyway.
16:26:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: Topic: F2F
16:26:46 <tzviya> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12mOkAVcopnEA_-H1t_TQ0ocUKzgqeA1u-zcArPdsTss/edit?usp=sharing
16:27:20 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: Ivan expressed concerns that it was too focused on EPUB and not Publishing@W3C in general.
16:27:50 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... I've added a few items about aligning with the web and in the roles and responsibilities discussions.
16:28:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... In the survey section I added what things are out of scope but should still be standardized.
16:28:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... We did talk about web and EPUB and aligning the two from the very beginning.
16:28:53 <liisamk> q+
16:29:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Many (most?) of us are interested in how well what we do can be well integrated with the web.
16:29:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> Ivan: We also need to discuss why that initial vision didn't seem to pan out.
16:29:39 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... What did we do wrong? How do we move ahead?
16:29:46 <Daihei> q+
16:30:26 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: Maybe we want a broader, higher-level discussion after the pm roadmap session.
16:30:36 <jeff> q+
16:30:49 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... E.g., where are we in relation to the dream? Do that before getting into the nuts and bolts discussion.
16:31:12 <liisamk> ack Daihei
16:31:16 <liisamk> ack liisamk
16:32:00 <Bill_Kasdorf> Daihei: We have to be clear about the business needs. Whatever it's called, we need to know the "web publishing" needs from the broader community.
16:32:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... In Japan, publishers are fine with EPUB 3 and don't want to see anything disrupt it.
16:32:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Beyond the publishing world there are things happening that really look like web publications but our outside of "publishing."
16:33:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... This may need to be incorporated into our roadmap.
16:33:13 <liisamk> ack jeff
16:33:16 <liisamk> q+
16:33:28 <wendyreid> q+
16:33:30 <Bill_Kasdorf> jeff: The point of the F2F is to focus on What We Should Do rather than looking backwards at what went wrong.
16:34:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Clearly the W3C needs to understand what went wrong. The best way to do that is to ask a small number of people who are involved to convent for disussions offline.
16:34:31 <Avneesh> q+
16:34:32 <Ralph> s/convent/convene
16:34:39 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Unlikely to get that done before the F2F. But this makes me a bit uncomfortable getting into this on the F2F. [Jeff, okay?]
16:35:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisa: How about a discussion between the roadmap and the roles and responsibilities about what our goals are now.
16:35:28 <garth> q?
16:35:30 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... We do need to define those high level goals before we dig into the details about what the groups are going to do.
16:35:32 <liisamk> ack liisamk
16:35:33 <garth> ack liisamk
16:35:39 <garth> ack wendyreid
16:36:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> wendyreid: Maybe instead of talking about what went wrong, talk about the challenges, what is happening that's having a negative effect, e.g. level of participation, what happened with web publications, etc.
16:36:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... We can use those to inform our plans going forward.
16:37:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> avneesh: First, there's a discussion in the morning that is relevant to all this. How are we to deal with that? Combine all the questions together?
16:38:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: Starting with scope and strategies we're talking at the 50,000 foot level. Then we dive into details in the rest of the meeting.
16:38:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... So we need to go back up a level or two before we get into concrete assignments.
16:38:48 <Bill_Kasdorf> Avneesh: Sounding like an iterative process.
16:39:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Second, what exactly do we mean by "aligning with the web"? Publications in the browsers, or technologies aligning with the web?
16:39:26 <garth> q+
16:39:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Third, we should discuss EPUB Accessibility later in the agenda.
16:40:18 <garth> ack Avneesh
16:40:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Finally, maybe we should be a bit less structured than the agenda implies. Nothing there surprises me. We need to enable other things to come up.
16:40:27 <tzviya> q+ to respond to Avneesh
16:40:29 <liisamk> ack garth
16:41:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> garth: "What does aligning with the web mean?" is a really important question. This should really be a focus of the F2F. This is not a goal unto itself, it's central to all we do.
16:41:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisamk: We may want to update the agenda when we get some survey results.
16:41:53 <tzviya> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zLKHs6RlXOg371ZAlxSbHirwyLlLjXhMcAOKRXRR8SU/edit?usp=sharing
16:41:58 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:41:58 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to respond to Avneesh
16:42:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: Remember we have a goals and motivations document. Few people have commented on it. Please take a look and share your thoughts.
16:43:19 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... A short session at the beginning of the day about why we're here is a good idea.
16:43:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Liisa and I will fine tune the agenda in response to this discussion.
16:44:04 <jeff> q+
16:44:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisa: Topic: Pre-work assignments.
16:44:24 <liisamk> ack jeff
16:44:36 <Avneesh> I will be in flight to New York at time of next SC call
16:45:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> jeff: When we were creating the agenda, I'd made some suggestions and made clear they came from me. I wasn't proposing to lead those discussions. Maybe my name shouldn't be on the agenda for those items.
16:45:44 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: That's not the agenda, that's just the goals document. Chairs are Avneesh, Liisa, Dave, and me.
16:46:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> jeff: That's not that I'm unwilling to lead a discussion if it's appropriate.
16:47:05 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisa: So, about discussions chairs are having with their groups. For the BG, I've started a discussion with my co-chairs; we're meeting on this next week.
16:47:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Where are others on that discussion?
16:47:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: the WG chairs have scheduled a meeting.
16:48:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisa: need to check with Dave and Rachel on where the CG is on that discussion.
16:49:05 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisa: Garth, maybe some discussion with the WG chairs about what aligning with the web means would be helpful.
16:49:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: Does anybody needs guidance on how to get to Wiley? Google Maps may not be sufficient.
16:50:26 <laudrain> q+
16:50:27 <Avneesh> I will be using Uber
16:50:50 <liisamk> ack laudrain
16:51:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> tzviya: for remote users, we'll need to use Microsoft Teams.
16:52:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> Avneesh: we can use the Daisy Zoom [correct?]
16:52:39 <Bill_Kasdorf> George: Zoom may be best; not sure about accessibility of MS Teams; I haven't tried it.
16:53:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> Avneesh: let's go with Daisy's Zoom with Wendy's as a backup.
16:53:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> George: Best to use Wendy's because the EPUB in HE group has a call using the Daisy Zoom the same day.
16:53:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> I have a Zoom account as well that can be a backup.
16:54:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisa: Topic: The BG search for a co-chair to replace Luc, who's retiring at the end of March.
16:54:22 <ivan> ]/me can we disallow Luc to retire?
16:54:55 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Cristina has stepped forward. Co-chair would really like the new co-chair to represent Europe. A few potential candidates have declined.
16:55:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... We hope by putting Cristina's name out there we haven't discouraged others from Europe to apply.
16:55:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... It's open until next Wednesday.
16:55:29 <laudrain> I’m not sure you could.
16:55:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Luc is concerned that he has enough time to get the new co-chair up to speed.
16:56:23 <Bill_Kasdorf> Luc, this would be fun to do in retirement, don't you think? Think of all the free time you'll have!
16:56:52 <Bill_Kasdorf> Actually we're lucky to have such a good candidate as Cristing, imo.
16:57:00 <laudrain> +1
16:57:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> laudrain: We should encourage the new co-chair to participate in the F2F
16:57:52 <tzviya> q+
16:58:00 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisa: Amazon is intrigued that we might publish their issues openly, and thought it might be quite helpful.
16:58:12 <liisamk> ack tzviya
16:58:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> wendyreid: This came up in the F2F we had with them at TPAC. They were wondering how we were getting such good feedback. Answer: Github.
16:59:25 <liisamk> ack Ralph
16:59:33 <Bill_Kasdorf> liisa: We've been testing every open issue we have with Amazon and are making good progress.
16:59:40 <tzviya> https://github.com/dvschultz/99problems
17:00:06 <Bill_Kasdorf> ... Happy to share that information in the Github.
17:01:01 <Bill_Kasdorf> do I need to do anything before signing off?
17:01:15 <Bill_Kasdorf> okay, thanks.
17:01:23 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
17:01:23 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been tzviya, wendyreid, laudrain, ivan, george, Bill_Kasdorf, liisamk, jeff, Ralph, Avneesh, Garth
17:01:25 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/02/07-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
17:01:28 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:01:32 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbgsc
17:02:02 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:02:02 <RRSAgent> I see no action items