15:59:15 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:59:15 logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/02/06-tt-irc 15:59:18 RRSAgent, make logs Public 15:59:19 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:59:45 Previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2020/01/30-tt-minutes.html 15:59:54 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/93 16:00:05 nigel has changed the topic to: TTWG Teleconference. Agenda for 2020-02-06 1600 UTC meeting: https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/93 16:01:19 Regrets: Atsushi, Glenn 16:02:27 Present: Nigel, Andreas 16:03:05 Present+ Cyril 16:03:08 scribe: nigel 16:03:14 Chair: Nigel 16:03:31 cyril has joined #tt 16:05:30 Topic: This meeting 16:06:21 Nigel: This may be the shortest ever meeting. There's only one agenda item, and I can't add to that right now. 16:06:37 .. I've been in contact with Atsushi about the banner text on TTML2 1st Ed Rec, and he hasn't got an answer back 16:07:06 .. from the team yet. Also Atsushi and Glenn have sent their regrets so we can't sensibly discuss that topic. 16:07:12 Present+ Gary 16:07:16 Chair+ Gary 16:07:28 .. Is there any other business? 16:07:42 Nigel: Checkpoint on IMSC: no feedback so far. 16:07:56 .. 2 PRs to be merged soon. 16:08:12 Cyril: Quick question for the AOB: about the profile registry. 16:08:28 Nigel: Ok. Any other agenda items? 16:08:51 group: [no other agenda items] 16:09:00 Topic: AOB - Profile Registry 16:09:26 Cyril: Netflix is interested in linking from the profile registry to a web page where we describe the restrictions 16:09:40 .. that we put on IMSC 1.1 Text Profile when we accept them for delivery. 16:09:51 .. Is that acceptable for the profile registry? 16:10:20 .. Initially my understanding was that it defines a 4cc for the codecs parameter to help clients determine 16:10:25 .. if they can play or not before downloading documents. 16:10:36 .. In this case we are talking more about an ingestion profile for delivery from studios. 16:10:47 Andreas: We also have the EBU-TT Part 1 profile listed there for contribution and exchange. 16:11:28 Cyril: That answers my question - it is not only for delivery to end user clients. 16:11:36 .. That's very similar to what Netflix wants to register. 16:12:37 Nigel: That's not quite the same thing though - it is for published profiles 16:12:53 Cyril: There would be a profile designator and a URL, which would probably be public. 16:13:37 .. What is the process to define it? 16:13:57 Nigel: Are you planning to specify an input constraint with a 4cc pointing to netflix and also im2t? 16:14:47 Cyril: No, it would be a set of constraints. 16:15:49 .. So if I follow the steps in ยง3 and email the Chairman then it can be added? 16:16:05 Nigel: If you do that then I will do the next stage and put it to TTWG for agreement. 16:16:09 Cyril: Ok 16:16:50 Cyril: We would like vendors to document when they conform to Netflix requirements. 16:16:57 .. We have recommendations and restrictions. 16:17:07 .. Restrictions mean rejection of non-conformant documents. 16:17:21 .. But an IMSC 1.1 Text profile document that meets restrictions but not recommendations would still be fine. 16:17:40 .. For example there could be a special export saying "conform to netflix" who would add the identifier. 16:18:00 .. They wouldn't have to say it's a Netflix compatible document. 16:18:09 .. For example we don't allow animations in IMSC 1.1 documents. 16:18:27 .. We can't ask people to update existing documents to include the Netflix profile identifier. It's a nice to have. 16:18:44 Andreas: I think in general it is super useful to have the profiles documented in the registry if they are in use in the wild. 16:18:57 .. If people find the identifier they can resolve it and go back to what it means. 16:19:15 .. It would of course be very helpful from the group's perspective if the documents are public available, though it is not a requirement. 16:19:28 .. Because then if you find a document with this identifier then you can really guess what it means 16:19:34 .. regardless of if you want to send it to Netflix or not. 16:20:21 Cyril: It's likely that we'll have core restrictions and then profiles for different languages but only one profile identifier. 16:20:31 .. For example Japanese would have ruby but Arabic might restrict it. 16:20:45 .. And then writingMode, direction etc for Arabic that would not be needed in Japanese, perhaps. 16:21:50 Topic: TTML2 2nd Edition CR Publication 16:22:01 Cyril: I'd like to understand how we will progress on the test suite. 16:22:28 .. Is my understanding correct that the change section compared to 1st Edition, and there's a set of syntactical 16:22:50 .. and a set of semantic only changes and we have something like 10 of each, roughly. Do we have to provide 16:23:07 .. 1 test per change or are some not needed. Do we have any idea of the amount of tests we need to write? 16:23:20 Nigel: Yes we do. Glenn summarised this in last week's call so hopefully I scribed that. 16:24:29 .. In summary, we have 2 categories of change - testable and untestable. 16:24:48 .. The testable ones come partly after we introduced a working practice where all PRs would have associated tests. 16:24:59 .. Those ones are okay. The others before that cut-off date need tests to be written. 16:25:09 Cyril: I see, from last week, 15 changes that need tests. 16:25:21 .. Is there a master document? The IR is empty at the moment. 16:25:37 .. For those 15 tests, or 11 that have already been created, if I look at the TTML2 tests repo and the pull requests since 16:25:46 .. the publication of TTML2 that should give me all of them, right? 16:25:50 Nigel: Yes, I think so. 16:26:16 .. Are you motivated to go and add them to the IR? 16:26:31 Cyril: Yes, I'm not sure how long that will last though (jokingly). 16:26:43 .. Also we need to identify the gaps, right. 16:26:58 .. I haven't done the exercise. I'm pretty sure some changes are in parts of TTML2 that we don't implement. 16:27:07 .. That would be problematic if that is the case for everybody. 16:27:38 Nigel: True. Some of them might be for audio features, and BBC has an implementation that we may want to update. 16:27:46 Cyril: Did we update the XSD? 16:27:49 Nigel: I don't know. 16:27:54 .. Good question. 16:28:05 Cyril: Some of the validation tools rely on the XSD at least flagging some things. 16:28:35 .. For example adding 'ignore' value to the ttp:profileCombination attribute. That could be tested in the XSD. 16:29:15 Nigel: Yes, but a note of caution: not all the things that can be checked in XSDs are checked. Sometimes enumerated 16:29:22 .. values are just listed as strings. 16:29:49 Cyril: I will try to put tests and names into the IR so people can start populating them. 16:29:51 Nigel: Thank you. 16:30:05 Cyril: The IR follows the same structure as the previous one. It is simple, we have to put a P or F. 16:30:43 .. The IR only has validation results, whereas previously we had presentation results too. Is that intentional? 16:31:03 Nigel: I don't know, could be an accident. Without going through the changes I couldn't tell if they have presentation 16:31:06 .. impacts. 16:31:12 Cyril: OK we need to go through that. 16:32:37 Topic: AOB - shear 16:32:51 Cyril: I am working with CSS WG people on shear, and some people have asked how it could be used in WebVTT. 16:32:56 .. Gary, maybe we can sync on that? 16:33:11 Gary: Sounds good. Right now the only possible thing that exists is transform, and just allowing that is weird because 16:33:24 .. we would only want to allow transform-skew. Only allowing a sub-property seems weird. 16:33:40 Cyril: Also depending on the semantics, you would have shear or lineShear. Is there a WebVTT property that applies 16:33:42 .. to lines only? 16:33:58 Gary: No. I guess you would have a different class per line or have different lines over different cues. 16:34:11 Cyril: Yes, I'd have to think about it. 16:34:27 .. I'm trying to revive this discussion, so if you're interested I'd appreciate some support in the threads when it starts. 16:34:30 Gary: Yes definitely. 16:34:57 Topic: Meeting close 16:35:16 atai2 has left #tt 16:35:26 Nigel: Thanks everyone, we've completed our agenda. Please let me and Gary know if you have any agenda items 16:35:39 .. for next week before Tuesday if possible. [adjourns meeting] 16:35:44 zakim, end meeting 16:35:44 As of this point the attendees have been Nigel, Andreas, Cyril, Gary 16:35:45 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 16:35:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/02/06-tt-minutes.html Zakim 16:35:49 I am happy to have been of service, nigel; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 16:35:53 Zakim has left #tt 16:35:54 Regrets: Pierre 16:36:22 rrsagent, make logs public 16:36:29 rrsagent, make minutes v2 16:36:29 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/02/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:38:01 Regrets: Atsushi, Glenn, Pierre 16:38:11 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:38:14 rrsagent, make minutes v2 16:38:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/02/06-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:38:19 github-bot, end topic 16:53:45 atsushi has joined #tt