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16:31:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:31:53 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
16:32:48 <ivan> Chair: tzviya
16:32:49 <ivan> Date: 2020-02-03
16:32:49 <ivan> Agenda: hhttps://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2020Jan/0030.html
16:32:49 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2020-02-03: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2020Jan/0030.html
16:32:50 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Working Group Telco
16:58:59 <laurent_> laurent_ has joined #pwg
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16:59:07 <laurent_> present+ laurent
16:59:22 <rkwright> present+
16:59:47 <dauwhe_> present+
16:59:51 <ivan> present+
16:59:52 <wendyreid> present+
16:59:59 <ivan> present+ george
17:00:29 <franco> franco has joined #pwg
17:00:29 <ivan> regrets+ garth
17:00:38 <George> George has joined #pwg
17:00:47 <franco> present+
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17:01:21 <gpellegrino> present+
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17:02:16 <timCole> present+
17:02:30 <George> present+
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17:02:51 <ivan> scribe+ franco
17:03:11 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2020/2020-01-27-pwg
17:03:16 <Avneesh> present+
17:03:26 <franco> Wendy: minutes approved
17:03:28 <ivan> resolved: last minutes approved
17:03:41 <ivan> topic: lpf testing
17:03:46 <franco> Wendy: we've asked laurent to update on LPF and testing
17:03:47 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qZ4AMePn6GkLIH2u1LbY50wXgHfGVrCdXhNUXKbDYAM/edit?usp=sharing
17:03:47 <laurent_> here's a link to a working doc related to LPF tests https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qZ4AMePn6GkLIH2u1LbY50wXgHfGVrCdXhNUXKbDYAM/
17:03:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pwg
17:03:53 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
17:04:06 <franco> Laurent: I've created a working doc that I've formatted in JSON so it's easier to discuss
17:04:36 <franco> ... description is an extract from spec with a selection text. the actions are "what should happen to tested package?"
17:04:49 <franco> ... there will be three or four packages for each test
17:04:56 <franco> ... errors will be what should happen with this test file or test
17:05:10 <franco> ... i think ive gone through all of the specification. i ahve added some tests that should trigger an error
17:05:18 <franco> ... so most of the tests have errors done. i will make samples that are good
17:05:39 <ivan> +1 for the inclusion of negative tests
17:05:50 <franco> ... i think that we shall have two tests that cause an error
17:06:10 <franco> ... i think that ivan you are the most advanced. do you thnik this is good enough?
17:06:26 <geoffjukes> geoffjukes has joined #pwg
17:06:29 <franco> ivan: i can't judge for the content, i dont know the document well enough, but this is what i would have done
17:06:53 <franco> laurent: so if there is no comment, then i will format in json and make pull request. but you have time to read it and make comments if you like
17:07:14 <rkwright> LGTM
17:07:14 <franco> wendy: questions or comments on the test now?
17:07:28 <ivan> q+
17:07:36 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:07:50 <franco> ivan: laurent, you will put it as a top level separate folder?
17:07:55 <franco> laurent: yes
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17:08:15 <BenSchroeter> present+
17:08:30 <franco> ivan: i will try to duplicate the reporting mechanism that i have for the others to make a separate repo (?) for that as well
17:08:55 <franco> wendy: is there an update on the readium implementation?
17:08:57 <ivan> topic: implementation
17:09:26 <franco> laurent: edr lab is an association so the developments are driven by its members and by the grants we get
17:09:39 <franco> ... because of hte directions given by the members and grants, we are moving in many paths
17:10:09 <franco> ... one is architectural with readium, the other with thorium (which includes audiobooks), but otherwise we have accessibility focus
17:10:17 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pwg
17:10:31 <CharlesL> present+
17:11:31 <franco> ... as of today, on readium mobile for onread, we have the support for aduiobooks with toc. using internal format we use readium
17:11:52 <franco> ... which is readium webpub manifest. in the code base we can receive an internal format (json)
17:12:00 <franco> ... similar to webpub format but not exactly the same
17:12:08 <franco> ... at the moment we can receive json format and read it as an audiobook
17:12:30 <franco> ... we already have transformation to webpub but its not clean enough to be published yet. not on github yet
17:12:43 <franco> ... planned for coming months. we will do the same for ios and desktop in the future
17:12:43 <tzviya> present+
17:13:00 <franco> ... month of june. we would liek ot present it at teh international publishing summit
17:13:27 <ivan> q+
17:13:41 <ivan> q-
17:13:45 <franco> wendy: audiobooks do work in the android version. woudl it be possible run tests against android implementation?"
17:13:48 <dauwhe_> q+
17:14:10 <ivan> q+
17:14:13 <franco> laurent: at the moment, it would be with the internal format, not the webpub manifest. it would not be adequate
17:14:32 <wendyreid> dauwhe_:
17:14:33 <franco> ... i would wait for the transformation to be done before testing
17:14:36 <wendyreid> ack dauwhe_
17:15:00 <franco> dave: just to clarify, this transformation from the spec to internal readium format, would that happen inside readium? so that a user could load a standard audiobook (per our spec)?
17:15:28 <franco> laurent: yes, but only exception would be when the book is LCP because the format does not support drm
17:15:42 <franco> ... the publisher can export the w3c audiobook in here and thats it
17:15:44 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:15:48 <franco> ivan: that sounds great
17:16:26 <franco> ... we have to have at least six weeks if not two months to be in the clear between the publication of the rec. for that we have to have our testing done
17:16:42 <franco> ... having the test suite run and reported back does not mean that at that point we are ready to go public with full application
17:16:55 <franco> ... it only means that the tests and the running implementation prove that the spec is consistent
17:17:11 <franco> ... im trying to find the right timing for this because we will need at the minimum two or more implementations
17:17:14 <franco> ... to show this consistency
17:17:27 <franco> ... when could that be possibel?
17:17:48 <franco> laurent: i understand that the manifest processing test for example, they are testing the spec, not an implementation
17:17:53 <ivan> s/possibel/possible/
17:18:09 <franco> ... two possibel tracks: 1 is to use real life samples of w3c audiobooks made by publishers to check that the spec is right
17:18:15 <franco> ... using these samples in the test suite
17:18:41 <franco> ... another totally paralelle track is to get two reading system implementations of this spec
17:18:51 <franco> ... my real goal is to have this ready for june because i want to present it at the epub summit
17:18:55 <ivan> s/paralelle/parallel/
17:19:07 <franco> wendy: june is too late unfortunately
17:19:29 <tzviya> q+
17:19:39 <franco> ... testing is due march 31. extendable a few weeks but not much more
17:19:47 <ivan> q+
17:19:59 <franco> ... we need to have implementations and publisher tests
17:20:08 <franco> wendy: what we need is implementations that can ingest the format
17:20:11 <wendyreid> ack tzviy
17:20:47 <franco> tzviya: reminder: our group's charter is up in july. this a real deadline.
17:21:02 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:21:28 <franco> ivan: to be very specific, for the CR  what we need is a real life implementation that goes through all the tests that are in the manfiest testing repo
17:21:38 <franco> ... and goes through those with their implementation and do the results which are expected
17:21:56 <franco> ... so if you have an internal prototype not yet ready for the public which doesnt even have the full bllown user interface
17:22:02 <franco> ... thats good enough
17:22:18 <franco> ... at the time of testing and reporting this is where it is. two months later it comes out with a usable user implementation
17:22:32 <franco> ... its only internal testing in the sense that the only thing we need is a json report that says yes we ran this one and yes this is the result we got
17:22:40 <franco> ... it is not necessary that by then the whole project will be complete
17:23:05 <franco> ... it will be very very precise. for example the TOC is not a nromative thing. so if we dont have that, thats on paper good enough
17:23:14 <franco> ... the saame way as for lpf because these are not normative.
17:23:40 <franco> ... there is no real reason to expect a full blown shiny usable and public implementation to be ready by then
17:24:06 <franco> ... at some point in time you do this internal testing anyway and maybe during this testing you will come up with more tests
17:24:25 <franco> laurent: i will check with the devs what we can do at least in one platform before the end of march
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17:25:04 <franco> ... only limitation may be to treat any toc and html toc that can be done. if we manage to have simple toc, could be ok
17:25:21 <wendyreid> https://www.jellybooks.com/cloud_reader/audiobooks/little_women
17:25:28 <ivan> Topic: another implementation
17:25:35 <franco> wendy: i am working on an implementation on jelly books. audiobooks inside cloud reader
17:25:44 <franco> ... bugging them now to see if they would be willing ot run tests
17:25:49 <franco> ... has toc, player
17:25:53 <franco> ... they are looking for feedback
17:26:47 <franco> laurent: this cloud reader is a prelude to what will be readium web, toolkit later. what you see is good start of what will be in readium later
17:27:00 <franco> ... totally open source
17:27:28 <ivan> q+
17:27:34 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:27:34 <franco> wendy: there is going to be in two weeks, im doing a webinar on the spec so hopefylly there will be publisher attention
17:27:52 <franco> ivan: wendy what happend with user behavior testing ?
17:28:05 <franco> wendy: the PR is there
17:28:13 <tzviya> regrets+ Geoff_Jukes
17:28:28 <franco> ... need to link to index
17:28:37 <franco> ... but the tests are there
17:28:45 <tzviya> link to BISG webinar https://bisg.org/events/EventDetails.aspx?id=1321302&group=
17:29:27 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
17:29:27 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been laurent, rkwright, dauwhe_, ivan, wendyreid, george, franco, gpellegrino, timCole, Avneesh, Bill_Kasdorf, BenSchroeter, CharlesL, tzviya
17:29:30 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:29:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/02/03-pwg-minutes.html Zakim
17:29:32 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:29:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwg
17:30:09 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:30:09 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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18:00:08 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2020/02/03-pwg-irc
18:00:20 <CharlesL> rrsagent, make logs public
18:01:27 <CharlesL> rrsagent, bye
18:01:27 <RRSAgent> I see no action items