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16:37:10 <ivan> Regrets+ gregorio, laudrain, rdeltour, avneesh, mattg, nellie
16:37:12 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:37:13 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
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16:56:12 <tzviya> present+
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16:56:53 <NickRuffilo> scribenick NickRuffilo
16:57:27 <NickRuffilo> scribe+ NickRuffilo
16:57:48 <ivan> present+
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17:03:17 <dauwhe> https://wiki.csswg.org/planning/print-workshop-2020
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17:04:33 <BenSchroeter> present+
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17:05:30 <geoffjukes> prsent+
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17:05:35 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-12-09-pwg
17:05:36 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: Welcome back everyone - I hope you enjoyed whatever you've done in the past month since we met...
17:05:37 <geoffjukes> present+
17:05:44 <garth> present+ Garth
17:05:47 <NickRuffilo> ... Any comments on the minutes?  Approved!
17:05:52 <ivan> resolved: last minutes approved
17:05:57 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/publ-tests
17:06:06 <duga> present+
17:06:09 <NickRuffilo> ... The main topic of today's agenda is testing, but Matt is not able to make it, but Wendy can give an overview.
17:06:55 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: The test repo is more-or-less complete.  There are some pull requests that need to be closed, but the tests for manifest processing, TOC processing, user agent behaviors, etc.  Just working on final formatting.  The only missing tests are about LPF from Laurent - hopefully we'll get them soon
17:07:15 <NickRuffilo> ... otherwise they are complete and ready for whomever wants to run them.  If you are interested, please do so and provide feedback.
17:07:22 <ivan> -> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/implementation/results.html lists of available reports
17:07:30 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: we've had some commitments about testing - where are we on the things we need?
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17:07:51 <josh> present+
17:07:53 <bigbluehat> present+
17:08:01 <ivan> q+
17:08:07 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: the tests that we need to have run are the processing of the pub and the audio manifest.  The User Agent behavior is less required, but good to know in terms of usability.  It's manifest + TOC that MUST be run to confirm the specification passes.
17:08:07 <marisa> present+
17:08:09 <tzviya> ack ivan
17:08:50 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: to be very precise - the Table of Contents is not required as it's not normative.  We did include it, and there are implementations now, but it's not formally required - such as LPF when it comes.  In a due dilligence and good behavior, it is good to have those tests ready
17:09:13 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: I agree with Ivan and it's good to make sure we have those tests.  If there is anyone who can offer to do some of the testing, that would be phenomial.
17:10:10 <marisa> q+
17:10:10 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: There is a pull request on the test manifest.  There are a number of tests that matt came up with - i worked on an implementation.  There are some small issues, so that link should lead to some proper reports when Matt accepts the pull request.
17:10:37 <tzviya> ack marisa
17:10:37 <NickRuffilo> ... What is missing is a link to the report for the user agent behavior testing but that's still under working.
17:10:51 <NickRuffilo> Marisa: Could someone put a link to the test repo?  I might have some things to contribute.
17:11:00 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/publ-tests
17:11:19 <ivan> q+
17:11:23 <tzviya> ack ivan
17:11:24 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: I believe Lars said he could test, but not until February.
17:12:05 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: The current status is that there are 2 implementations, but he hasn't put them into the result directly.  Those implementations are fine to have on manifest processing, but I would be pretty unhappy if they were the only ones who reported back...
17:12:21 <NickRuffilo> ... because they are separate programs meant to test, but not living implementations.
17:12:58 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: Lars' tests are real world.  Marisa, are yours real-world implementations?
17:13:30 <NickRuffilo> Marisa: I've been working on some demos, so as part of that I wrote a publication manfiest processor - it's meant to be for my use but I realized others might find it useful.  It's still a conference demo...
17:13:55 <rkwright> q+
17:13:59 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: In my experience, having Kobo, Google, readium, etc - whatever algorithm/code they are working on is what i'm looking for
17:14:02 <tzviya> ack rkwright
17:14:23 <wendyreid> q+
17:14:25 <NickRuffilo> Rick: Just FYI, we do have our first Readium engineering meeting - i have it on the agenda as to how we can help with the testing and will get back on that
17:14:27 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
17:14:38 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: For transparency, I'm attempting to do the same for Kobo - but we'll see
17:14:41 <marisa> https://marisademeglio.github.io/pubmanifest-parse/
17:14:52 <ivan> q+
17:14:54 <dauwhe> https://www.w3.org/2019/Process-20190301/#implementation-experience
17:14:55 <tzviya> ack ivan
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17:16:02 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: Marisa - we should probably take it offline but there are a bunch of tests there which are small manifests - I hope they are useful for you as well.  If it has features that are not tested there, it'd be great if you added them back to the repository.  The report file has at the end how to add new tests.  The URLs that are there are needing work - which is part of the PR that is there...
17:16:58 <dkaplan3> _q
17:17:00 <dkaplan3> +q
17:17:03 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: The only other agenda item is to talk about a meeting schedule for the coming weeks.  The last time we met, we concluded that we don't need to meet on a weekly basis until we have more information on the testing.  Maybe every other week?  Comments?
17:17:07 <tzviya> ack dkaplan3
17:17:27 <NickRuffilo> Deborah: What would we do if we had to miss one - schedule for an offweek?  or just miss the month?
17:17:30 <NickRuffilo> q+
17:17:37 <tzviya> ack dkaplan
17:17:45 <tzviya> ack NickRuffilo
17:18:03 <NickRuffilo> Nick: What about a 15 minute checkpoint?
17:18:17 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: That tends not to work for most people - as they tend to trickle in...
17:18:59 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: I like Nick's proposal, especially given what Deborah proposed - we don't want to go a month without a meeting.  That can be even worse, as people's agendas get messed up.  If it was every week but shorter, that might be better
17:19:30 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Maybe a compromise - We can do 30 minutes every 2 weeks, and if something would be skipped, reschedule for week after?
17:19:50 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: we could put it on the calendar every week and cancel if need be - that way people can hold the time if needed?
17:19:52 <garth> q+
17:19:53 <dkaplan3> tzviya: +1
17:19:56 <tzviya> ack garth
17:20:09 <NickRuffilo> Garth: I like that plan
17:20:46 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: Plan is to keep it on the calendar, assume it's going to be short, and expect frequent cancellations every other week - expect meeting to be relatively short until we get back to assessing test results
17:20:52 <NickRuffilo> +1
17:20:54 <garth> +1
17:21:11 <wendyreid> +1
17:21:23 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: it would be better if what we decided gets set as a formal resolution
17:21:26 <tzviya> +1
17:21:30 <ivan> +1
17:21:35 <George> IsNext call Jan 27?
17:21:37 <dkaplan3> +1
17:21:45 <geoffjukes> +
17:22:47 <tzviya> Resolution: Keep weekly meeting on the calendar, but assume it will be short, and expect frequent cancellations (approximately every other week). Expect meeting to be relatively short until we get back to assessing test results.
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17:23:41 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: Keep testing - we will talk soon
17:24:18 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:24:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/01/06-pwg-minutes.html ivan
17:24:39 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
17:24:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been tzviya, NickRuffilo, ivan, dauwhe, george, wendyreid, Teenya, dkaplan, BenSchroeter, rkwright, franco, davd_stroup, geoffjukes, Garth,
17:24:42 <Zakim> ... duga, josh, bigbluehat, marisa
17:24:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:24:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2020/01/06-pwg-minutes.html Zakim
17:24:44 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; goodbye
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17:45:21 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:45:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items