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15:18:42 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:18:42 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Chairs’ Telco
15:18:42 <ivan> Chair:  liisa
15:18:42 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2019Nov/0007.html
15:18:42 <ivan> Date: 2019-12-13
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15:58:51 <laudrain> present+
15:58:56 <dauwhe> present+
15:58:57 <George> George has joined #pbgsc
15:59:22 <George> present+
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16:00:12 <wendyreid> present+
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16:01:01 <tzviya> present+
16:01:04 <liisamk> present+
16:02:04 <Ralph> present+
16:02:49 <ivan> chair: Luc
16:02:52 <ivan> present+
16:03:14 <tzviya> zakim, pick a victim
16:03:14 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose wendyreid
16:03:31 <wendyreid> scribe+
16:04:22 <wendyreid> laudrain: First item on the agenda is about the website
16:04:26 <Avneesh> present+
16:04:28 <wendyreid> ... validator.idpf.org
16:04:37 <wendyreid> ... we discussed it with DAISY
16:04:45 <wendyreid> ... this site is hosted on a DAISY server
16:04:59 <wendyreid> ... where it takes computer power, and it's not reliable
16:05:06 <Ralph> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2019Dec/0000.html Luc's agenda on validator.idpf.org
16:05:06 <wendyreid> ... has to be restarted
16:05:14 <wendyreid> ... Marisa handles this regularly
16:05:17 <Ralph> s/agenda/agendum
16:05:29 <wendyreid> ... it's quite heavily used, around 4k unique IPs per month
16:05:36 <wendyreid> ... 1000's of EPUBs are checked
16:05:42 <garth> garth has joined #pbgsc
16:05:48 <garth> present+ Garth
16:05:53 <wendyreid> ... even though it's a beta, it's used to validate right on the site
16:06:00 <wendyreid> ... the EPUBCheck version is not the latest version
16:06:28 <wendyreid> ... it was updated to 4.1.1 in January, but we are now on 4.2.2
16:06:32 <wendyreid> ... it is used
16:06:56 <wendyreid> ... it should not be hosted by DAISY in the long term, or called validator.idpf.org
16:06:58 <jeff> jeff has joined #pbgsc
16:07:03 <jeff> present+
16:07:05 <wendyreid> ... should we keep this service?
16:07:07 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc
16:07:17 <wendyreid> ... if we don't keep it, since there is a CLI for EPUBCheck
16:07:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:07:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> Sorry to be late
16:07:32 <wendyreid> ... we can stop it, but if we do keep it, we should improve it
16:07:37 <wendyreid> ... transferred to a new host
16:07:51 <wendyreid> ... since it's a legacy from the IDPF we should discuss it here
16:07:55 <wendyreid> ... or with the PBG
16:08:01 <laudrain> q?
16:08:01 <wendyreid> ... that is the situation, thoughts?
16:08:05 <liisamk> q+
16:08:14 <laudrain> ack liisa
16:08:18 <wendyreid> liisamk: I have some concerns about keeping it
16:08:21 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:08:37 <wendyreid> ... potential legal liability of transferring pre-production files to a server for validation
16:08:45 <wendyreid> ... does that put us at legal risk
16:09:01 <wendyreid> ... is there something more downloadable or local?
16:09:06 <tzviya> q+
16:09:06 <laudrain> q+
16:09:16 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:09:37 <wendyreid> tzviya: I am not a lawyer so we could ask Wendy S, but there is a disclaimer checkbox on the website
16:09:42 <wendyreid> ... or we could add that
16:09:57 <wendyreid> ... when we discussed this on the EPUBCheck management call, it has 1000s of users
16:10:14 <wendyreid> ... we don't have developer time to devote to that, we'd need to do more fundraising
16:10:23 <wendyreid> ... we would look into the legal risk
16:10:26 <laudrain> validator.idpf.org
16:10:53 <wendyreid> laudrain: If you go to the webpage, it says this site uses EPUBCheck... (disclaimer)
16:11:06 <wendyreid> ... it does mention volume should be done with the CLI
16:11:15 <wendyreid> ... we could add phrasing about legal issues
16:11:23 <wendyreid> ... we could add information about the CLI
16:11:31 <wendyreid> ... add the link to the contribution to the fundraising
16:11:49 <wendyreid> ... this site is used by people making EPUBs rarely or outside of the supply chain
16:11:54 <wendyreid> ... I think it is useful
16:12:06 <wendyreid> ... it could also be a way to push some information
16:12:17 <wendyreid> ... advertise that the community is alive and active
16:12:25 <laudrain> q?
16:12:26 <wendyreid> ... a good way to announce to people who use it
16:12:30 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:12:42 <laudrain> ack Ralph
16:12:47 <wendyreid> Ralph: Who would be the right people to gather for discussing the required resources?
16:12:55 <laudrain> q+
16:12:59 <wendyreid> ... setting aside the legal question
16:13:07 <wendyreid> laudrain: Romain and Marisa from DAISY
16:13:18 <wendyreid> ... they're currently maintaining the system
16:13:22 <wendyreid> tzviya: Avneesh as well
16:13:22 <George> q+
16:13:30 <garth> q?
16:13:36 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:13:42 <wendyreid> Ralph: I'm willing to take an action to work with them on organizing this
16:13:43 <laudrain> ack George
16:13:44 <Avneesh> q+
16:14:05 <wendyreid> George: I agree with Luc, there's some updating to do from 4.1.1 to 4.2.2, it might also be an avenue to encourage people to move to EPUB3
16:14:10 <garth> q?
16:14:16 <laudrain> q+
16:14:17 <wendyreid> ... possible many using EPUB2 are using it
16:14:23 <Ralph> s/them on organizing this/talk with Marisa and Romain to get an estimate of the developer resources required to update the system to current epubcheck levels
16:14:27 <wendyreid> ... I think the server, Marisa has to kick it every now and then
16:14:34 <wendyreid> ... it's not the best environment either
16:14:52 <wendyreid> ... Avneesh is on, I know we've developed the Ace GUI, we're updating that soon
16:14:57 <wendyreid> ... making it more accessible and robust
16:15:12 <wendyreid> ... I wonder if we can include EPUBCheck into that tool
16:15:20 <wendyreid> ... just an exploratory question
16:15:42 <wendyreid> ... what is pagina?
16:15:46 <wendyreid> laudrain: It's very good
16:15:47 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:16:07 <wendyreid> Avneesh: Pagina I have heard good things about
16:16:26 <wendyreid> ... when it encounters failures it requires restarting
16:16:31 <laudrain> pagina : https://www.pagina.gmbh/produkte/epub-checker/
16:16:36 <wendyreid> ... there's an impact when it goes down because it is not maintained
16:16:55 <wendyreid> ... there are two things we must do, we need to improve it or let it die
16:17:05 <wendyreid> ... improve the code and the infrastructure
16:17:06 <liisamk> q+
16:17:33 <wendyreid> ... move to a microservice system for the server, uses far less CPU cycles, these are the parameters for you Ralph
16:17:40 <wendyreid> ... this is the minimum
16:17:50 <wendyreid> ... or let it go, and replace it with a GUI
16:18:08 <wendyreid> laudrain: I think that it's very useful
16:18:17 <wendyreid> ... it's an avenue to bring messaging to users
16:18:33 <wendyreid> ... technically it's not huge, but there's many things to consider
16:18:48 <wendyreid> ... for us as a community, it's an important place to communicate to people
16:18:54 <wendyreid> ... that aren't in the mainstream
16:19:11 <wendyreid> ... smaller suppliers or producers
16:19:32 <wendyreid> ... it's an opportunity to reach these people
16:19:38 <wendyreid> ... it's a global consideration
16:19:47 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:19:48 <wendyreid> ... put some warnings, but we should keep it
16:19:55 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:20:18 <wendyreid> liisamk: I think there's a middle path of letting the page turn over to something else
16:20:41 <wendyreid> ... use it as a messaging board of sorts
16:20:44 <laudrain> q?
16:21:13 <wendyreid> laudrain: I don't know if we can decide today, but let's explore all of the solutions
16:21:16 <George> q+
16:21:32 <wendyreid> ... Ralph can speak to Marisa and Romain about the technical issues and we can explore it again
16:21:34 <laudrain> ack George
16:21:50 <wendyreid> George: Is there a use case for people who have an EPUB on their phones and they use this service?
16:21:55 <wendyreid> ... where pagina isn't an option
16:21:58 <garth> q+
16:22:08 <laudrain> ack garth
16:22:12 <wendyreid> garth: To George's question, possibly
16:22:27 <wendyreid> ... depending on effort, I'm in the camp of upgrading to 4.2.2
16:22:30 <tzviya> q+
16:22:45 <wendyreid> ... you simply upload your EPUB and get it checked, instead of installing an app
16:22:52 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:22:52 <wendyreid> ... having this site seems to be a feature
16:23:22 <wendyreid> tzviya: I just want to point out that pagina is excellent, if we were to use them, I think we need to ask if they're able to handle that volume
16:23:24 <garth> q?
16:23:30 <wendyreid> ... they do contribute to EPUBCheck
16:23:44 <wendyreid> laudrain: We would direct them to them
16:24:03 <wendyreid> tzviya: We can't say they're the solution
16:24:22 <wendyreid> laudrain: There's work to improve the API for EPUBCheck
16:24:31 <laudrain> q?
16:24:37 <wendyreid> ... we can use it to encourage people to move to EPUB3 or other things
16:24:43 <wendyreid> ... if there's nothing else, next topic
16:24:50 <wendyreid> ... second topic is the survey
16:24:51 <ivan> topic: survey
16:25:03 <wendyreid> ... Liisa or Dave?
16:25:11 <wendyreid> dauwhe: I've just been trying to write questions
16:25:15 <laudrain> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZLAIgAH7hoWo56uov3QN2-jaMY6MaWQKJrAys1GwDdY/edit#
16:25:17 <wendyreid> ... comments and suggestions welcome
16:25:26 <laudrain> q?
16:25:34 <wendyreid> ... George, you're right there is not enough focus on HigherEd, I'd love input from other publishing verticals
16:25:59 <wendyreid> laudrain: There was a question from Jeff about dividing the surveys for several destinations
16:26:06 <laudrain> q?
16:26:17 <wendyreid> liisamk: It would be harder to manage multiple surveys
16:26:31 <wendyreid> ... where would we start collecting names
16:26:39 <wendyreid> ... that has not been solved yet
16:26:44 <wendyreid> ... I'll start a google sheet
16:27:05 <George> q+
16:27:11 <tzviya> q+
16:27:11 <wendyreid> laudrain: There was an external task force that did collect a long list of names and organizations
16:27:15 <wendyreid> ... we could reuse that
16:27:20 <tzviya> q-
16:27:28 <wendyreid> liisamk: For the purposes of starting let's collate all of this
16:27:44 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: We need to pilot it on a small scale before sending it internationally
16:27:51 <wendyreid> ... the contacts we have are useful
16:27:59 <tzviya> q+
16:28:04 <Daihei> q+
16:28:05 <laudrain> ack george
16:28:05 <wendyreid> laudrain: We can do this in the google doc, I will find thel ink
16:28:22 <wendyreid> George: When you say collecting names, do you mean individuals or organizations, or both
16:28:24 <wendyreid> liisamk: Both
16:28:31 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:28:45 <wendyreid> tzviya: I just wanted to comment that we need to be broad with the distribution
16:28:50 <wendyreid> ... encourage people to pass it along
16:28:54 <ivan> present+ daihei
16:28:58 <wendyreid> ... we're not going to get enough feedback otherwise
16:29:00 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to tzviya, especially about encouraging pass-along
16:29:01 <Avneesh> q+
16:29:02 <laudrain> q?
16:29:06 <wendyreid> ... let's not get too caught up in the who
16:29:12 <wendyreid> ... post it on social media etc
16:29:13 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:29:16 <laudrain> ack Daihei
16:29:38 <wendyreid> Daihei: As far as Asia, I will send it out with Yoshii-san to organizations
16:29:45 <liisamk> q+
16:29:50 <wendyreid> ... APL and other industry associations
16:30:06 <wendyreid> ... major publishers, Kodansha, Shueisha, etc,
16:30:16 <wendyreid> ... educational and graphical publishers
16:30:21 <wendyreid> ... large ebook stores
16:30:25 <laudrain> q?
16:30:34 <wendyreid> ... TDPF will cover Taiwan as well
16:30:44 <wendyreid> ... that will cover most of Japan and Asia
16:30:47 <George> q+
16:31:07 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:31:22 <wendyreid> Avneesh: I understand the reason for keeping the survey together, but I wonder what the user experience would be?
16:31:25 <wendyreid> q+
16:31:48 <wendyreid> ... do we have a screening question in the beginning, instead of making every user answer them all
16:31:49 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:31:49 <wendyreid> q-
16:31:53 <dauwhe> q+ to say we could have a table of contents
16:32:10 <wendyreid> Bill_Kasdorf: I was persuaded by Dave's comment that most users are more than one role
16:32:20 <wendyreid> ... it's difficult to segregate questions
16:32:23 <wendyreid> q+
16:32:33 <wendyreid> ... instead of presenting all the questions
16:32:37 <wendyreid> ... click on sections
16:32:47 <wendyreid> ... make it less intimidating
16:33:00 <wendyreid> ... I wanted to add to tzviya's comment on passing it along
16:33:10 <wendyreid> ... the hardest part is getting to the right individuals
16:33:22 <wendyreid> ... making sure it's shareable
16:33:36 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:33:38 <wendyreid> liisamk: Couple things
16:33:55 <wendyreid> ... Avneesh's idea on focusing on the specific survey case is good
16:34:02 <wendyreid> ... how we do that we can figure out
16:34:22 <wendyreid> ... from Daihei on translation, tuesday's call we discussed if we translated it
16:34:35 <wendyreid> ... we got offers for translation to Chinese and Japanese
16:34:43 <wendyreid> ... do we need to do that for other local markets
16:34:55 <wendyreid> ... pilot it in English while translating
16:34:56 <laudrain> ack George
16:35:14 <wendyreid> George: This looks like it is going to go out to a lot of peopl
16:35:27 <wendyreid> ... it is an excellent opportunity to promote and market EPUB3
16:35:35 <wendyreid> ... I'm not suggesting it become a marketing campaign
16:35:44 <wendyreid> ... it would be good to message EPUB3 in the best ligth
16:35:53 <wendyreid> ... the publishing standard for downloadable packaged content
16:35:56 <Avneesh> q+
16:36:04 <wendyreid> ... it's not the purpose but it is the byproducr
16:36:16 <wendyreid> ... in terms of how we organize the survey
16:36:33 <wendyreid> ... having end-user type questions at first then make it more technical
16:36:39 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:36:39 <Zakim> dauwhe, you wanted to say we could have a table of contents
16:36:41 <wendyreid> dauwhe: I think that's fine
16:36:52 <wendyreid> ... we can use navigation and table of contents
16:36:58 <wendyreid> ... so people can find what they want
16:37:12 <wendyreid> ... I don't want to prevent people from seeing questions
16:37:19 <wendyreid> ... many people play many different roles
16:37:25 <wendyreid> q-
16:37:34 <wendyreid> ... make it easy for them to find what's important to them
16:37:39 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:37:48 <wendyreid> Avneesh: I also have one concern, we want this survey to be neutral
16:38:00 <wendyreid> ... it is also a way to discover if there is something beyond EPUB3
16:38:05 <laudrain> q+
16:38:13 <wendyreid> ... we might bias people just to EPUB3 if we focus on it
16:38:27 <liisamk> q+
16:38:28 <wendyreid> ... if there's something in scholarly or other verticals that lives outside of EPUB3 we should know
16:38:55 <wendyreid> laudrain: I understand the concern, but we could put a disclaimer in the beginning on the current situation and then ask
16:39:02 <wendyreid> ... what are the next steps
16:39:12 <wendyreid> ... there's still some work to do on the questions
16:39:19 <wendyreid> ... do we have an idea of schedule
16:39:26 <wendyreid> ... when do we send?
16:39:35 <wendyreid> ... how do we organize managing the answers
16:39:48 <laudrain> q?
16:39:49 <wendyreid> ... when do we consider we have enough information
16:39:54 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:39:55 <jeff> q+ to comment on schedule
16:40:01 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:40:04 <wendyreid> liisamk: Avneesh I think there's a way we can do both
16:40:12 <dauwhe> q+
16:40:27 <wendyreid> ... EPUB3 is the current standard, but we can also use the 2020 mentality to look forward, what else needs to be done
16:40:51 <wendyreid> ... let's give ourselves time over the holidays to do some back and forth on the document
16:41:00 <wendyreid> ... gather names and contacts
16:41:06 <wendyreid> ... how do we position it
16:41:13 <wendyreid> ... let's regroup on the call in January
16:41:26 <wendyreid> ... my personal gut timeline is sending in early feb
16:41:34 <wendyreid> ... pilot in early-mid feb
16:41:40 <wendyreid> ... answers back before spring
16:41:58 <wendyreid> ... we need to know what to do before meetings in spring
16:42:07 <wendyreid> tzviya: Yes the AB meeting is in early May
16:42:12 <garth> q?
16:42:15 <wendyreid> s/AB/AC
16:42:22 <wendyreid> ... AB is in Feb
16:42:33 <laudrain> ack jeff
16:42:33 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to comment on schedule
16:42:42 <wendyreid> jeff: Mostly to agree on what Liisa said
16:42:58 <wendyreid> ... if we have a F2F in late feb it would be good to see some feedback
16:43:03 <wendyreid> ... there's an AC meeting in May
16:43:19 <wendyreid> ... what about the charter of the PWG
16:43:28 <wendyreid> ... it expires on July 1
16:43:35 <dauwhe> q-
16:43:40 <wendyreid> ... we need to start before then
16:43:47 <tzviya> +1 to jeff
16:43:52 <laudrain> q+
16:43:56 <wendyreid> ... it would be good to have the responses by the end of March to give us 3 months to figure out our strategy
16:44:05 <wendyreid> ... it's not required but incredibly helpful
16:44:17 <wendyreid> laudrain: I don't think 2 months is enough
16:44:27 <wendyreid> ... a worldwide survey needs time
16:44:31 <jeff> q+
16:44:32 <tzviya> q+
16:44:36 <wendyreid> ... 6 months
16:44:38 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:44:39 <jeff> q= to comment on 6 months
16:44:40 <wendyreid> q+
16:44:56 <wendyreid> ... to communicate and raise new momentum
16:45:15 <wendyreid> ... there's potential for new SDKs and things
16:45:27 <wendyreid> ... we would have he bulk of answers in the first month
16:45:39 <wendyreid> ... we can discuss at TPAC
16:45:50 <laudrain> ack jeff
16:45:53 <wendyreid> jeff: The question I have is
16:46:06 <wendyreid> ... what do we think is the average time to respond
16:46:12 <wendyreid> ... we live in an over-surveyed world
16:46:20 <wendyreid> ... most people will either do it or ignore it
16:46:29 <wendyreid> ... if they do it it will be right away
16:46:35 <wendyreid> ... the remainder won't
16:46:37 <ivan> +1 jeff
16:46:38 <wendyreid> ... or will do it later
16:46:41 <wendyreid> +1
16:46:49 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:46:50 <wendyreid> ... I don't think we'll get much after a month
16:46:53 <wendyreid> tzviya: I agree
16:46:59 <wendyreid> ... 6 months will change a lot
16:47:06 <wendyreid> ... I might have different answers
16:47:17 <wendyreid> ... we need to have a long-term view of what we hope to accomplish
16:47:26 <wendyreid> ... maybe interviews with stakeholders
16:47:28 <liisamk> q+
16:47:34 <ivan> scribe+
16:47:37 <wendyreid> ... leaving the survey open for 2-3 weeks
16:47:39 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:47:50 <ivan> wendyreid: i also agree that 6 months is too long
16:47:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to interviews, and the initial survey results will be informative in doing the interviews
16:47:59 <ivan> .... luc brought up tpac
16:48:09 <ivan> ... but if there is wg, nobody will go to tpac
16:48:22 <ivan> ... we cannot ask cg members to travel to vancouver
16:48:36 <ivan> ... if we do not make a decision soon we will not ahve a wg
16:48:41 <garth> q?
16:48:52 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/is wg/is no wg/
16:48:57 <ivan> ... after 1-2 months we can look at the results, we will get 90% of the results in the first couple of weeks
16:49:19 <ivan> ... interviews might be a good idea once we have the survey results
16:49:19 <ivan> ... we cannot make 6 months, it won't work
16:49:23 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:49:44 <wendyreid> liisamk: We need to try to get as much as we can after initial distribution
16:49:51 <wendyreid> ... we'll need translations and that will take time
16:50:06 <garth> q+
16:50:06 <wendyreid> ... we won't just use this for data but also new connections
16:50:13 <wendyreid> ... interviews after we digest the data
16:50:37 <wendyreid> ... I think we could have a meeting a TPAC
16:50:54 <Daihei> q+
16:51:04 <wendyreid> garth: I agree with a shorter time frame
16:51:20 <wendyreid> ... I don't think we should go into this that the survey with a WG coming out of it
16:51:24 <George> q+
16:51:27 <laudrain> ack garth
16:51:44 <wendyreid> ... I guess my caution is not to create this survey with a WG in mind from the results
16:51:47 <wendyreid> q+
16:51:52 <ivan> ack Daihei
16:52:00 <wendyreid> Daihei: I am not clear why the 6 months is the problem
16:52:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> can the wg go on indefinite hiatus without rechartering and then crank up again if and when appropriate?
16:52:21 <wendyreid> ... as long as we have the survey out, we can review the feedback as it comes in
16:52:39 <wendyreid> ... we would have some directional thinking on this
16:52:42 <laudrain> ack Daihei
16:52:46 <wendyreid> ... we can do interviews with influential people
16:53:02 <wendyreid> ... we tech companies, with distributors and other booksellers
16:53:14 <wendyreid> ... organized to have productive results
16:53:19 <wendyreid> ... it will take 5-6 months
16:53:37 <wendyreid> ... we can have more detailed meetings to have a discussion at TPAC
16:53:46 <wendyreid> ... the POV of business needs of ebooks
16:54:04 <wendyreid> ... in the meantime, 6 months or up to TPAC, we can have a direction
16:54:10 <wendyreid> ... we can have more intense discussion
16:54:24 <ivan> ack George
16:54:34 <wendyreid> George: I hear what Avneesh said about, we're not just about EPUB
16:54:46 <wendyreid> ... the survey should talk about publishing in its broadest form
16:54:47 <tzviya> q+
16:54:57 <wendyreid> ... EPUB3 is the most widely used standard
16:55:03 <wendyreid> ... it's going to be a big part
16:55:06 <wendyreid> ... regarding TPAC
16:55:13 <wendyreid> ... I look at Publishing@W3C as a domain
16:55:25 <wendyreid> ... it's a major division
16:55:33 <wendyreid> ... TPAC meetings in that domain seem reasonable
16:55:53 <ivan> wendyreid: i have mentioned that before
16:56:03 <ivan> ... we had a bg meeting at tpac
16:56:19 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:56:20 <ivan> ... the reason we had that (1) we had a local industry and (2) we had a wg meeting
16:56:33 <ivan> ... unless we are a meeting for 2 days
16:56:50 <ivan> ... people will not come over, it is far and expensive for europe
16:57:19 <ivan> ... is we talk about survey and palnning, it is not worth having a meeting at tpac
16:57:26 <ivan> ... i know this survey would lead to a wg
16:57:37 <ivan> ... we have ideas abnout wg style work
16:57:52 <ivan> ... the survey will give us ideas eg on the epub /wg work
16:57:58 <ivan> ... maybe new ideas will come up
16:58:32 <dauwhe> +1 to wendyreid
16:58:33 <ivan> ... i am ok not spinning a wg, i am not ok having a meeting at tpac because we need 4 hours for a chat on survey results
16:58:44 <ivan> ... we are not eh only parts of w3c
16:58:47 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:58:56 <wendyreid> tzviya: I agree with wendy, this survey has morphed
16:59:11 <wendyreid> ... from how we should improve EPUB to directing the publishing activity
16:59:14 <laudrain> q+
16:59:21 <wendyreid> ... if we focus just on EPUB
16:59:28 <wendyreid> ... we can use it to focus the activity
16:59:39 <garth> q?
16:59:41 <wendyreid> laudrain: We are coming to the end of the hour
16:59:43 <garth> ack laudrain
16:59:47 <ivan> Topic: f2f meeting in february
16:59:51 <wendyreid> ... there's a proposal to have a F2F in February
17:00:16 <wendyreid> ... the next SC call is on the 27th of December, should we do it or cancel
17:00:23 <liisamk> +1 to cancel
17:00:28 <wendyreid> ... we will cancel it
17:00:44 <wendyreid> ... the next call will be Jan 10
17:01:08 <wendyreid> ... until then, happy christmas, and next PBG call is Dec 17
17:01:11 <wendyreid> ... have a good day!
17:01:19 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/12/13-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan
17:01:19 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:01:19 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:01:19 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:01:19 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been laudrain, dauwhe, George, wendyreid, tzviya, liisamk, Ralph, ivan, Avneesh, Garth, jeff, Bill_Kasdorf, daihei
17:01:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbgsc