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16:40:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/12/02-pwg-irc
16:40:52 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
16:40:52 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Working Group Telco
16:40:52 <ivan> Chair: wendy
16:40:52 <ivan> Date: 2019-12-02
16:40:52 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2019Nov/0054.htmll
16:40:53 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-12-02: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2019Nov/0054.html
16:40:54 <ivan> Regrets+ billk, teenya, tzviya, luc, lars
16:58:15 <gpellegrino> gpellegrino has joined #pwg
16:58:24 <gpellegrino> present+
17:00:12 <dauwhe> present+
17:00:39 <wendyreid> present+
17:00:53 <ivan> present+
17:01:32 <marisa> marisa has joined #pwg
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17:01:52 <laurent_> present+ laurent
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17:02:53 <marisa> present+
17:02:55 <BenSchroeter> present+
17:03:04 <romain> present+
17:03:29 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pwg
17:03:57 <gpellegrino> I'm on the high speed train :)
17:04:39 <wendyreid> zakim, pick a victim
17:04:39 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dauwhe
17:04:56 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
17:04:58 <bigbluehat> present+
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17:05:17 <garth> present+ Garth
17:05:24 <dauwhe> wendyreid: let's get started
17:05:36 <wendyreid>  https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-11-18-pwg
17:05:36 <dauwhe> Topic: minutes
17:05:49 <Avneesh> present+
17:05:52 <mattg> present+
17:05:59 <dauwhe> wendyreid: minutes approved
17:06:07 <ivan> resolved: last week's minutes approved
17:06:18 <dauwhe> Topic: LPF is ready for publication as ... note
17:06:33 <dauwhe> laurent_: everything is ready
17:06:47 <dauwhe> ... there was a respec issue
17:06:56 <rkwright> rkwright has joined #pwg
17:06:57 <ivan> q+
17:07:03 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:07:20 <dauwhe> ivan: pub rules checker had some complications
17:07:25 <duga> duga has joined #pwg
17:07:27 <duga> present+
17:07:30 <dauwhe> ... so the webmaster will get back to me
17:07:49 <dauwhe> wendyreid: we'll see publication this week?
17:07:53 <dauwhe> ivan: thursday
17:08:00 <geoffjukes> geoffjukes has joined #pwg
17:08:09 <dauwhe> wendyreid: we were approved for CR for audiobooks on Thursday
17:08:14 <rkwright> present+
17:08:21 <dauwhe> Topic: API tests
17:08:26 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pwg
17:08:31 <wendyreid> https://github.com/iherman/pub_manifest_api_tests/
17:08:34 <dauwhe> wendyreid: ivan, could you go over this?
17:08:38 <dauwhe> ivan: there's nothing new
17:08:39 <wendyreid> https://iherman.github.io/pub_manifest_api_tests/
17:08:40 <CharlesL> present+
17:08:47 <wendyreid> https://w3c.github.io/pub-manifest/experiments/manifest-to-internal-processor/testsuite.html
17:09:06 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I've posted links to IRC
17:09:08 <josh> josh has joined #pwg
17:09:12 <dauwhe> ... mattg and ivan were working on this
17:09:31 <dauwhe> ivan: I talked about the tests a while ago
17:09:42 <josh> present+
17:09:42 <dauwhe> ... I collected them in one place, independent of my impl
17:09:48 <dauwhe> ... and have a reporting mechanism
17:10:08 <dauwhe> ... but this only for one tiny part of what we test, the conversion to the internal representation of the manifest. that's all it covers.
17:10:14 <wendyreid> q?
17:10:47 <dauwhe> ... implementors can send a JSON file that reports their results, and make a PR
17:11:00 <dauwhe> Topic: repo for testing
17:11:16 <dauwhe> wendyreid: this came up in a PR because we have separate repos for audio and pub manifest
17:11:20 <ivan> q+
17:11:28 <dauwhe> ... we could have tests in pwg repo, or in new test repo
17:11:37 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:11:42 <dauwhe> ivan: i raised this issue
17:11:53 <dauwhe> ... i juist have one part of the testing
17:12:01 <dauwhe> ... we need something similar for json schema
17:12:21 <dauwhe> ... and there will be other tests
17:12:23 <garth> s/juist/just/
17:12:28 <dauwhe> ... it's cleaner if it's in one repo
17:13:14 <bigbluehat> +1 to one "testsuite" repo
17:13:21 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I'm ok with a test repo
17:13:58 <dauwhe> ivan: if there's a better answer for where to put the test I'm all ears
17:14:24 <dauwhe> wendyreid: everyone has no opinion or is ok with this.
17:14:40 <ivan> q+
17:14:44 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:14:58 <dauwhe> ivan: there is a pending PR for schema based testing
17:15:16 <dauwhe> ... if we set up a separate repo, or do the wg repo, then benjamin can populate
17:15:24 <bigbluehat> q+
17:15:27 <wendyreid> ack bigbluehat
17:15:40 <dauwhe> bigbluehat: it's fine wherever
17:15:44 <mattg> q+
17:15:56 <wendyreid> ack mattg
17:16:14 <dauwhe> mattg: i think having a more general thing like publishing test suites
17:16:31 <dauwhe> ... having it separate reduces noise from notifications
17:16:35 <George> George has joined #pwg
17:16:39 <dauwhe> ... so just one for all our specs
17:16:42 <George> present+
17:16:43 <dauwhe> wendyreid: sounds good
17:16:45 <dauwhe> ivan: ok
17:17:41 <wendyreid> Proposal: Create a new repo for tests called publishing-tests and store all of the publication manifest, audiobooks, and other tests there
17:17:51 <geoffjukes> +1
17:17:51 <dauwhe> +1
17:17:52 <marisa> +1
17:17:54 <mattg> +1
17:17:54 <josh> +1
17:18:02 <duga> +1
17:18:02 <romain> +1
17:18:06 <laurent_> +1
17:18:08 <ivan> +1
17:18:09 <George> +
17:18:10 <wendyreid> +1
17:18:14 <George> q+
17:18:15 <BenSchroeter> +1
17:18:18 <bigbluehat> +1
17:18:19 <wendyreid> RESOLVED: Create a new repo for tests called publishing-tests and store all of the publication manifest, audiobooks, and other tests there
17:18:24 <wendyreid> ack George
17:18:28 <rkwright> +1
17:18:39 <dauwhe> George: copyright on these materials and usage... are we going to just have
17:18:45 <dauwhe> ... make believe content or real content?
17:18:45 <ivan> q+
17:18:55 <dauwhe> wendyreid: public domain or made up
17:18:56 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:18:57 <ivan> q-
17:19:20 <ivan> q+
17:19:20 <dauwhe> ... I've been looking for public domain content or make it up
17:19:25 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:19:29 <dauwhe> ivan: one practical question
17:20:36 <wendyreid> dauwhe: Everything I have used is from Librivox
17:21:00 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I've been using librivox, too, for audio
17:21:28 <dauwhe> wendyreid: we do have a testing timeline, with the end of CR being march 31
17:21:45 <dauwhe> ... we also decided that there are only 2 more meetings this year
17:21:52 <dauwhe> ... i'd like to have our tests firmed up
17:21:58 <dauwhe> ... and the remaining part is on me
17:22:15 <ivan> q+
17:22:16 <dauwhe> ... so starting in january any implementers can start testing, and we can get results
17:22:18 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:22:35 <dauwhe> ivan: i would like to understand what type of test we will have beyond the one I seeded
17:22:47 <dauwhe> ... which are only on the transformation part
17:23:05 <dauwhe> ... beyond that, what other types of tests do we want?
17:23:17 <dauwhe> ... is there any test for table of contents structure and algo
17:23:42 <dauwhe> ... and there may be other statements in specs
17:23:57 <dauwhe> ... and I don't know what the schema testing does
17:24:25 <dauwhe> ... and we need tests for some other things
17:24:36 <dauwhe> wendyreid: the other group of tests is for user agent behaviour, which I'm working on
17:24:41 <dauwhe> ... self-reported, not automated
17:24:52 <dauwhe> ... covering the UCR stuff
17:24:58 <dauwhe> ... and we need TOC tests
17:25:01 <dauwhe> ... but it's optional
17:25:29 <dauwhe> ... so we need mandatory and optional tests
17:25:59 <dauwhe> ... since we don't have toc tests, does someone want to tackle those?
17:26:47 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I'll send an email
17:27:02 <dauwhe> ... the tests have to be self-run, we don't have an automated way to report data
17:27:06 <dauwhe> ... can we do that?
17:27:14 <ivan> q+
17:27:15 <dauwhe> ... or is an upload format OK?
17:27:17 <wendyreid> ack ivan
17:27:31 <dauwhe> ivan: for what I did, i'm not even sure how I would test automatically
17:27:44 <dauwhe> ... if this and this is missing, then the test says validation error
17:27:56 <dauwhe> ... we don't have a precise set of error numbers like http
17:28:08 <dauwhe> ... it takes a human
17:28:37 <dauwhe> ... I don't think the effort is worth it
17:28:45 <dauwhe> ... but this is only for the tests I've worked on
17:28:50 <dauwhe> ... I don't know about user agent tests
17:28:55 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I wouldn't automate those
17:29:30 <dauwhe> ... I'll send a list of things that need to be done, and hope for volunteers
17:29:49 <dauwhe> ... we've finished the agenda. See you next week!
17:30:07 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:30:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/12/02-pwg-minutes.html ivan
17:30:07 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:30:07 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:30:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:30:07 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been gpellegrino, dauwhe, wendyreid, ivan, laurent, marisa, BenSchroeter, romain, bigbluehat, Garth, Avneesh, mattg, duga, geoffjukes,
17:30:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwg