16:58:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbg
16:58:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/11/26-pbg-irc
16:58:13 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
16:58:13 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
16:58:13 <ivan> Chair: Luc
16:58:13 <ivan> Date: 2019-11-26
16:58:13 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Nov/0005.html
16:58:13 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-11-26: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Nov/0005.html
16:58:14 <ivan> Regrets+ Daihei, BillK
16:59:39 <George> George has joined #pbg
17:00:13 <ivan> present+
17:00:16 <George> present+
17:00:23 <tzviya> present+
17:00:24 <wolfgang> present+ wolfgang
17:01:19 <wendyreid> present+
17:01:26 <dauwhe> present+
17:02:02 <laudrain_> laudrain_ has joined #pbg
17:02:15 <laudrain_> present+
17:02:26 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbg
17:02:42 <jeff> present+
17:03:14 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbg
17:03:17 <liisamk> present+
17:03:42 <Jonathan_Greenberg> Jonathan_Greenberg has joined #pbg
17:04:45 <Karen> present+ Karen
17:05:13 <garth> garth has joined #pbg
17:05:40 <jeff> scribenick: jeff
17:05:47 <jeff> Topic: EPUBcheck fundraising
17:05:53 <jeff> Luc: Wrote to many companies
17:05:55 <Avneesh> present+
17:06:19 <jeff> ... new explanatory page on website
17:06:24 <jeff> ... funding not finished
17:06:33 <jeff> ... wrote to European federation of publishers
17:06:33 <JulieBlair> JulieBlair has joined #pbg
17:06:36 <jeff> ... hoping for results
17:06:50 <George> q+
17:06:57 <JulieBlair> present+
17:07:01 <liisamk> ack George
17:07:04 <laudrain_> ack George
17:07:11 <jeff> ... discussions with some specific companies
17:07:23 <jeff> George: Discussions with Avneesh at AB meeting
17:07:51 <jeff> ... IMS Global not likely
17:08:00 <jeff> ... but maybe some of their members
17:08:01 <laudrain_> link to W3C fundraising page : https://www.w3.org/publishing/epubcheck_fundraising
17:08:01 <jeff> ... other companies
17:08:36 <jeff> Tzviya: I've also reached out to some publishers
17:08:41 <jeff> ... some positive feedback
17:08:44 <laudrain_> q?
17:08:58 <jeff> ... Daihei working on Japan companies
17:09:25 <liisamk> q+
17:09:31 <laudrain_> ack liisamk
17:09:39 <jeff> Luc: Taking additional ideas
17:09:56 <jeff> Liisa: Convincing vendors is good
17:10:07 <jeff> ... also that people should put into their annual budget
17:11:04 <jeff> Luc: Answer Link-In inquiries with requests to fund EPUBcheck
17:11:22 <wolfgang> s/Link-In/Linked-In/
17:11:26 <jeff> Topic: Survey on future needs for publishers
17:11:50 <jeff> Liisa: At the SC, talked about needs for business, EPUB roadmap
17:12:00 <jeff> ... idea of a survey with wide reach
17:12:11 <jeff> ... short term and long term
17:12:22 <mateus> mateus has joined #pbg
17:12:22 <jeff> ... Dave, Bill K., and I are working on the survey
17:12:27 <jeff> ... Dave first draft
17:12:32 <laudrain_> q?
17:12:34 <jeff> ... multilayer responses
17:12:38 <dauwhe> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZLAIgAH7hoWo56uov3QN2-jaMY6MaWQKJrAys1GwDdY/edit#
17:12:41 <jeff> Dave: I'm outlining subject areas
17:12:44 <jeff> ... ^^
17:13:04 <jeff> ... need thought on how to get useful info
17:13:37 <jeff> Liisa: We are hoping to use this to get more connections, more conversations
17:14:12 <jeff> ... timeline early in the year
17:14:14 <jeff> q+
17:14:25 <ivan> scribe+
17:14:31 <laudrain_> ack jeff
17:14:34 <ivan> jeff: more conversation is the heart of the matter
17:14:49 <ivan> ... the team and me personally would be very interested in the conversation
17:14:50 <liisamk> q+
17:14:57 <laudrain_> ack liisamk
17:15:10 <jeff> Liisa: How can we collect the audience for the survey
17:15:14 <jeff> ... email addresses, etc.
17:15:17 <tzviya> q+
17:16:08 <jeff> Tzviya: Avoid Googledocs; issues in some countries
17:16:16 <liisamk> ack tzviya
17:16:17 <jeff> ... Survey Monkey?  Is it accessible
17:16:24 <jeff> ... send to entire BG and CG
17:16:28 <laudrain_> q?
17:16:29 <George> jeff: q+
17:16:29 <jeff> ... our Twitter followers
17:16:40 <jeff> q+
17:17:13 <jeff> ... Dave's informal doc has 175 comments about the business model
17:17:24 <jeff> ... are we focused on spec or business model?
17:17:26 <wendyreid> scribe+
17:17:32 <laudrain_> ack jeff
17:17:40 <liisamk> q+
17:17:48 <wendyreid> jeff: In terms of who should get the survey, at a minimum it should be the membership of the IDPF
17:17:56 <wendyreid> ... it would be an opportunity to reengage
17:18:00 <laudrain_> ack liisamk
17:18:10 <Avneesh> q+
17:18:11 <Cristina> Cristina has joined #pbg
17:18:16 <jeff> Liisa: What we are getting out of it is somewhat open-ended
17:18:18 <jeff> q+
17:18:26 <jeff> ... support for short-term needs for EPUB
17:18:34 <jeff> ... something more that need standards for
17:18:39 <Cristina> present+
17:18:55 <jeff> ... if we see business stuff --> important to put in front of our community
17:19:13 <jeff> ... a new decade1
17:19:13 <wendyreid> q+
17:19:24 <jeff> ... future of publications for 2020 and beyond!
17:19:28 <jeff> ... launching point
17:19:30 <laudrain_> ack Avneesh
17:19:49 <jeff> Avneesh: Survey Monkey is accessible; only with simple controls
17:19:58 <jeff> ... avoid GoogleDocs
17:20:17 <jeff> ... outreach to IDPF community
17:20:30 <jeff> ... but remember the history
17:20:34 <jeff> ... more outreach is good
17:20:41 <jeff> ... future?  WP?
17:20:49 <jeff> ... bigger leap ahead of EPUB3
17:20:54 <jeff> ... but open-ended
17:20:59 <laudrain_> ack jeff
17:21:08 <laudrain_> q?
17:21:10 <Karen> scribe+
17:21:17 <Karen> Jeff: we have been having some conversations
17:21:31 <wendyreid> jeff: Back to the question about the scope. To update, we've been having conversations about whether EPUB3.2 should go to rec track, there was a lot of strong opinions
17:21:33 <Karen> ...started with conversation whether EPUB3.2 should go on rec track which we did not yet resolve
17:21:47 <wendyreid> ... in the conversation we observed that it is hard to make a decision on that when we don't have a roadmap
17:22:15 <wendyreid> ... that created a bunch of activities, like Dave with the CG, to define the roadmap
17:22:31 <wendyreid> ... but not everyone is in the community group and we need to have broader outreach
17:22:38 <wendyreid> ... let's look at broader questions
17:22:54 <wendyreid> ... the inner circle of the highest priority is the EPUB roadmap
17:22:59 <wendyreid> ... but let's also look for other things
17:23:09 <laudrain_> ack wendyreid
17:23:23 <jeff> Wendy: Survey is a good idea
17:23:30 <jeff> ... IDPF community a good place to start
17:23:34 <laudrain_> q+
17:23:35 <jeff> ... but as broad as possible
17:23:37 <jeff> ... new markets
17:23:40 <jeff> ... Asia
17:23:43 <jeff> ... India
17:23:45 <jeff> ... Africa
17:24:01 <jeff> ... small publisher
17:24:10 <jeff> ... @@ Draft to digital
17:24:16 <jeff> ... people using EPUB poorly
17:24:20 <jeff> ... conversion houses
17:24:24 <jeff> ... EPUB 2 users
17:24:36 <jeff> ... BUT, not to take a long time
17:24:43 <jeff> ... <1 year of planning
17:24:51 <jeff> ... WG charter ends at 6 months
17:25:03 <jeff> q+ to comment on the WG charter
17:25:05 <tzviya> +1000 to wendyreid on timeline
17:25:06 <garth> q?
17:25:17 <jeff> ... without a WG - why do we need to exist
17:25:24 <jeff> ... how to justify fees?
17:25:32 <jeff> ... planning mode not good enough
17:25:36 <laudrain_> q?
17:25:38 <garth> q+
17:25:59 <jeff> Luc: Bill K. has an external task force
17:26:06 <jeff> ack lau
17:26:15 <jeff> ... tool for a broad population
17:26:25 <laudrain_> ack jeff
17:26:25 <Zakim> jeff, you wanted to comment on the WG charter
17:26:31 <wendyreid> jeff: Thanks to Wendy for raising the timeline issue
17:26:36 <George> q+
17:26:44 <wendyreid> ... the critical issue is not when this charter ends, its when audiobooks ends
17:27:00 <wolfgang> s/its/it's/
17:27:14 <wendyreid> ... in the sense where the charter has expired, we can extend it, whether it's june or september
17:27:48 <wendyreid> ... if it ends in June, that doesn't mean we have until June to finish the survey, we have until june to do the survey and review the results
17:27:54 <wendyreid> ... and get a new charter ready
17:27:59 <laudrain_> ack garth
17:28:01 <liisamk> q+
17:28:02 <wendyreid> q+ to update on the WG
17:28:10 <jeff> Garth: +1 to complete survey ASAP
17:28:33 <jeff> ... existing WG - will complete Audiobooks by end of charter
17:28:38 <tzviya> q+ to respond to garth
17:28:44 <jeff> ... not sure that should be driving
17:28:54 <jeff> ... survey may suggest digesting in the CG
17:29:06 <jeff> ... I don't see urgency for a contrived WG by June
17:29:18 <jeff> ... shouldn't press for the sake of having a WG.
17:29:24 <laudrain_> ack George
17:29:31 <jeff> George: Broadest scope survey possible
17:29:34 <jeff> ... Authors
17:29:37 <jeff> ... Higher Ed
17:29:45 <jeff> ... Corporate publishing (e.g. IBM)
17:29:47 <jeff> ... GOvt.
17:30:03 <Jonathan_Greenberg> +1 to all of these communities
17:30:05 <jeff> ... open educational resources
17:30:23 <laudrain_> ack liisamk
17:30:27 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
17:30:27 <Zakim> Present: ivan, George, tzviya, wolfgang, wendyreid, dauwhe, laudrain_, jeff, liisamk, Karen, Avneesh, JulieBlair, Cristina
17:30:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see Cristina, mateus, JulieBlair, garth, Jonathan_Greenberg, liisamk, Avneesh, laudrain_, George, RRSAgent, Zakim, wolfgang, jeff, ivan, tzviya, Karen, dauwhe, wendyreid,
17:30:29 <Zakim> ... bigbluehat
17:30:37 <jeff> Liisa: Timing - need to send after the holidays
17:30:45 <ivan> present+ Jonathan_Greenberg
17:30:54 <jeff> ... late Jan; early Feb
17:31:07 <jeff> ... new year!  new decade!  what does it mean
17:31:22 <jeff> ... where should we collect list of people to reach out to
17:31:25 <jeff> ...?
17:31:29 <jeff> Luc: Good point.
17:31:34 <laudrain_> ack wendyreid
17:31:34 <Zakim> wendyreid, you wanted to update on the WG
17:31:49 <jeff> Wendy: WG got approval to push Audiobooks to CR.
17:31:58 <jeff> ... will move to CR next week
17:32:03 <jeff> ... looking for implementations
17:32:13 <jeff> ... already have Calibrio and Readium
17:32:19 <jeff> ... March for end of CR
17:32:23 <tzviya> s/calibrio/colibrio
17:32:24 <jeff> ... hope to be on schedule
17:32:35 <jeff> ... may be ahead of schedule
17:32:39 <jeff> ... EXCITING!!
17:32:41 <laudrain_> ack tzviya
17:32:41 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to respond to garth
17:32:48 <jeff> Tzviya: Wearing my AB hat
17:32:54 <jeff> ... but not representing the AB
17:33:04 <jeff> ... we don't need a new WG
17:33:23 <jeff> ... but by May (Spring AC) we should have a solid plan
17:33:29 <jeff> ... tell people what we are planning to do
17:33:43 <jeff> ... or we fall off the radar
17:33:52 <jeff> ... lose time from our beloved team rep
17:34:01 <jeff> ... could be a SC discussion
17:34:03 <Avneesh> q+
17:34:11 <jeff> ... should at least have something on the roadmap
17:34:15 <jeff> ... or we are forgotten
17:34:20 <jeff> ... and look bad
17:34:35 <jeff> ... and will need to beg for Ivan's time
17:34:36 <laudrain_> ack Avneesh
17:35:03 <liisamk> +1 to analyzing data from survey as we get it
17:35:08 <jeff> Avneesh: We should have a progressive set of surveys
17:35:12 <laudrain_> q+
17:35:12 <jeff> ... timeline is tight
17:35:21 <jeff> ... but we should keep the survey open and get more input
17:35:39 <jeff> Luc: We will need a task force to process the survey
17:36:05 <jeff> Topic: 2020 a new decade
17:36:18 <jeff> Luc: We thought 2020 was a good launch year
17:36:24 <jeff> ... focus on accessibility
17:36:32 <jeff> ... social themes: diversity and inclusion
17:36:48 <jeff> ... concern for supply chair
17:37:03 <jeff> ... need for publications and websites
17:37:07 <wolfgang> s/chair/chain/
17:37:09 <jeff> q+
17:37:10 <laudrain_> q?
17:37:16 <laudrain_> ack laudrain_
17:37:21 <laudrain_> ack jeff
17:37:24 <wendyreid> jeff: I think that's a great point
17:37:29 <wendyreid> ... new decade new start
17:37:42 <wendyreid> ... I hope this is in the survey, there's new regulations in the EU
17:37:54 <wendyreid> ... we need to bring that regulatory factor in
17:37:56 <Cristina> q+
17:38:20 <laudrain_> ack Cristina
17:38:24 <Cristina> i am by phone I try to unmute
17:39:14 <jeff> Cristina: Should we organize an event for accessibility; or incorporate in all events?
17:39:19 <Karen> q+
17:39:37 <jeff> Luc: Next topic
17:40:09 <jeff> ... thought about having an event - futures workshop
17:40:31 <jeff> ... include accessibility
17:40:39 <laudrain_> q?
17:40:56 <jeff> Cristina: Take into consideration
17:41:00 <laudrain_> ack Karen
17:41:14 <jeff> Karen: Remind everyone about TPAC, 26-30 October 2020, Vancouver
17:41:29 <jeff> ... central for Asia and US; little further for Europe
17:41:34 <jeff> ... could have a mini-event
17:41:47 <jeff> Luc: +1 to TPAC
17:41:49 <liisamk> q+
17:41:57 <laudrain_> ack liisamk
17:42:19 <jeff> Liisa: Future conversations is complementary to survey
17:42:34 <laudrain_> +1 to ebookcraft
17:42:42 <jeff> ... so we need to have the survey; decide what we want to do; and continue the conversation at events
17:42:54 <jeff> ack li
17:43:21 <jeff> Topic: Audiobook
17:43:45 <jeff> Liisa: Wendy, is there an opportunity, clean up chapter data
17:43:54 <jeff> ... give them a bridget
17:43:57 <laudrain_> q?
17:44:00 <jeff> s/t//
17:44:09 <jeff> ... what to do now; what is the future
17:44:29 <jeff> ... people can know what to do; but also when the standard is adopted.
17:44:38 <jeff> Wendy: We can publish something
17:44:58 <jeff> ... the clearest chapter metadata you can provide, as informative as possible.
17:45:11 <jeff> .. I can put data in the spec format so people know what it looks like
17:45:23 <jeff> ... we want publishers (even experimental)
17:45:26 <garth> q+q+
17:45:28 <garth> q+
17:45:35 <laudrain_> q+
17:45:43 <jeff> q- q+
17:45:44 <garth> ack “q+”
17:45:55 <jeff> Liisa: Publishers are pushed to provide chapter data
17:46:02 <jeff> ... no best practices
17:46:08 <jeff> ... e.g. section and parts called out
17:46:14 <jeff> ... consistency
17:46:33 <jeff> ... In PRH we are doing it in spreadsheets
17:46:39 <jeff> ... will be different in standard
17:46:48 <jeff> ... some are doing nothing until the standard
17:46:53 <jeff> ... or doing their own thing
17:47:05 <tzviya> q+
17:47:08 <jeff> ... then they won't revise per the standard
17:47:13 <jeff> Wendy: No easy answer
17:47:23 <jeff> Liisa: But we need some best practices
17:47:39 <jeff> Wendy: Spec is extensible and flexible
17:47:53 <jeff> ... could take a spreadsheet and convert to a compliant manifest
17:48:06 <jeff> ... look at the ToC structure for ebook
17:48:12 <jeff> ... do chapters have names?
17:48:28 <jeff> ... anything from a print book or ebook applies to audiobook.
17:48:34 <jeff> ... subsections
17:48:45 <tzviya> q-
17:48:50 <laudrain_> ack garth
17:48:52 <jeff> ... spec allows such best practices
17:48:59 <jeff> Garth: Agree with Wendy
17:49:13 <jeff> ... PRH does spreadsheets
17:49:23 <jeff> ... others CS lists
17:49:36 <jeff> ... ToC can be pulled into a file today
17:49:43 <jeff> ... without the full standard
17:49:52 <jeff> ... I think - yes
17:50:11 <jeff> ... useful half-measure
17:50:22 <jeff> Luc: ToC in HTML format is an opportunity for accessiblity
17:50:26 <jeff> ... well received in France
17:50:38 <jeff> ack laud
17:51:14 <jeff> ... does this answer your question
17:51:21 <jeff> Liisa: Not really, but enough for today.
17:51:32 <jeff> Topic: 2020 scheduling for PBG
17:52:03 <jeff> ... Next US/Europe on 17th of December
17:52:11 <jeff> ... start again with 7 January.
17:52:14 <jeff> ... Not definite
17:52:35 <jeff> ... could modify
17:52:40 <laudrain_> q?
17:52:56 <jeff> q+
17:53:10 <laudrain_> ack jeff
17:53:15 <wendyreid> jeff: I'm just looking at my calendar and not seeing anything on the 17th
17:54:28 <laudrain_> q?
17:54:52 <jeff> [adjourned}
17:55:01 <jeff> rrsagent, make minutes
17:55:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/11/26-pbg-minutes.html jeff
17:55:10 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:55:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/11/26-pbg-minutes.html ivan
17:55:10 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:55:10 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:55:10 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:55:10 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been ivan, George, tzviya, wolfgang, wendyreid, dauwhe, laudrain_, jeff, liisamk, Karen, Avneesh, JulieBlair, Cristina,
17:55:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
17:55:14 <Zakim> ... Jonathan_Greenberg