16:40:51 RRSAgent has joined #apa 16:40:51 logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/11/13-apa-irc 16:40:53 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:40:53 Zakim has joined #apa 16:40:55 agenda? 16:40:55 Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference 16:40:55 Date: 13 November 2019 16:41:49 agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements 16:41:50 agenda+ Task Force Updates 16:41:50 agenda+ Charter Updates https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 16:41:52 agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html 16:41:55 agenda+ HTML Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2019Nov/0003.html 16:41:58 agenda+ Community Groups Tracking Review https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Community_Groups 16:42:01 agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8 16:42:04 agenda+ Other Business 16:42:06 agenda+ be done 16:57:29 Matthew_Atkinson has joined #apa 17:01:26 JF has joined #apa 17:01:33 present+ 17:01:34 present+ 17:01:37 agenda? 17:02:28 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs 17:04:46 present+ 17:06:15 Becka11y has joined #apa 17:07:25 scribe: JF 17:07:36 zakim, take up item 1 17:07:36 agendum 1. "Agenda Review & Announcements" taken up [from janina] 17:07:51 present+ 17:08:31 JS: standard agenda, with some persistent items (Matthew's review of HTML, Becky's review of community groups) 17:08:57 MA: know that Josh has done review of XR materials, will tackle that this week 17:09:17 JO: There has been some discussion at RQTF about this too 17:09:38 JO: will be working on that later today / this week 17:10:13 zakim, next item 17:10:13 agendum 2. "Task Force Updates" taken up [from janina] 17:10:58 JS: Josh mentioned the RQTF discussion earlier today - follow up from the Immersive Workshop last week in Seattle 17:11:08 JS: triggered some thoughts related to MAUR 17:11:26 might need to split the document into multiple parts - getting quite large 17:11:39 JS: still awaiting the official W3C transcripts 17:11:52 not yet released. Will advise when made public 17:12:09 JO: Good summary. Have a sense that we are gaining critical mass 17:12:19 lots of interest in this topic 17:12:28 JS: Also, the Pronunciation TF met today 17:13:17 topics include future process... will be asking Leonie (representing Web Plat) to an APA call, so that we can plan out implementation and uptake for their spec 17:13:51 this means we need to ensure we cover all the bases. As this will be mainstream, we need to also figure out hand-off and timing (etc.) 17:14:04 need to meet with Irfan et al regarding this 17:14:32 we also discussed the wide, mainstream application being a "nice to have", but if we don't get something that works for AT, we'll still have come up short 17:15:06 Irfan discussed a F2F meeting @ CSUN. Discussed possibly going to the ATIA conference in January 17:15:37 JS: any other TF info? 17:15:52 knows that Personalization is working towards publishing 17:16:07 JO: hoping to have the accessible RTC doc ready soon as well 17:16:13 zakim, next item 17:16:13 agendum 3. "Charter Updates https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22" taken up [from janina] 17:16:29 JS: anything here? 17:16:32 MC: yes, a few 17:17:01 -> https://www.w3.org/Payments/WG/charter-201910.html Web Payments draft charter 17:17:14 -> https://www.w3.org/Payments/WG/charter-201910-diff.html Web Payments draft charter diff 17:17:51 This group is continuing work... do not have a liason statement to APA, even though we are working with them 17:18:08 JS: we had discussed creating a power document for them at one point... 17:18:44 JS: since they've scoped this under the UI, there may not be much for us. We did discuss the need for an "accessible" receipt. Pretty much everything else is covered in WCAG 17:18:54 MC: so, do they need a liason with APA? 17:19:19 JS: I would "trade away" a Liason if Ian was prepared to add the warning comment 17:20:03 MC: don't want to conflate charter discussion with our "ask" 17:20:21 Oops. brb 17:21:42 MC: they have added a section related to accessibility considerations. So we decided about a year ago that we could live with that 17:22:01 JS: we might take that list and iterate on it here... 17:22:47 MC: getting back to charter... do we have any comment to make? Hearing that we need to do a follow-up on Payment Request API 17:23:02 per charter that should be in the next version 17:23:17 JS: for the statement that got incorporated 17:23:27 MC: if we want something, we will need it soon 17:24:09 ACTION Janina add accessible receipting to the accessibility statement for payments 17:24:09 Created ACTION-2220 - Add accessible receipting to the accessibility statement for payments [on Janina Sajka - due 2019-11-20]. 17:25:05 action-2220: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Payment_Request_API 17:25:05 Notes added to action-2220 Add accessible receipting to the accessibility statement for payments. 17:26:15 -> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/charter/index.html Data Exchange WG draft charter 17:27:38 -> https://w3c.github.io/charter-drafts/audio-2019.html Audio WG draft recharter 17:28:40 florian_ has joined #apa 17:29:40 [Discussion of reviewing Audio WG materials] 17:30:06 MC: We've not provided much to them in the past. Do we want to have a liason for this as well? 17:30:43 JS: Wishing Joannie was here... wondering if we need to chat with them 17:31:11 JS: thinking we may need to have a mechanism for 'exclusion' of TTS [sic], and other concerns 17:31:41 MC: we need to figure out if we want a liaison statement from them to us at this point 17:32:15 s/liason/liaison 17:32:44 -> https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/grorg/admin/blob/wg-charter-draft/wg-charter.html GPU for the Web Working Group Charter 17:32:54 MC: One last item, not yet ready for horizontal review, but pending and may be of interest of us 17:33:08 notice of interest for a new charter 17:33:28 MC: thought we might be doing some work that relates to this (?) 17:34:07 JS: Thinks yes, as there is also a lot of AI there... 17:34:30 MC: requesting comments as PR on tyheir draft charter 17:34:50 s/tyheir/their 17:35:10 JS: sounds like more discussion is needed, but we are missing a key participant 17:35:20 zakim, next item 17:35:20 agendum 4. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina] 17:35:40 MC: there are a few that are "stuck" 17:35:49 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-3/ CSS Text Module Level 3 17:36:14 there is a CSS module - we've looked previously and then there was nothing, so... 17:36:34 JS: if we didn't find anything previously, let's not go fishing 17:36:35 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/ Decentralized Identifiers (DIDs) v1.0 17:36:45 JS: the CAPTCHA killer 17:37:01 MC: now is the time for a review. who should we assign this to? 17:37:11 action: janina to review Decentralized Identifiers (DIDs) v1.0 https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/ - due 4 weeks 17:37:11 Created ACTION-2221 - Review decentralized identifiers (dids) v1.0 https://www.w3.org/tr/did-core/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2019-12-11]. 17:37:12 JS: can assign to me 17:37:24 action-2221: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Decentralized_Identifiers_(DIDs)_v1.0 17:37:24 Notes added to action-2221 Review decentralized identifiers (dids) v1.0 https://www.w3.org/tr/did-core/. 17:37:52 zakim, next item 17:37:52 agendum 5. "HTML Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2019Nov/0003.html" taken up [from janina] 17:37:57 Review of my review findings, including short-term things and also matters in which I think we should be interested and should be tracking: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2019Nov/0003.html 17:38:14 JS: please start with largest concerns first 17:38:36 MA: propose to discuss 4 major issues, then loop back to existing questions 17:38:56 MA: was invited to the WHAT WG a11y team @ GitHub 17:39:02 MA: kind of cool 17:39:28 only had one comment to advance: navigation in the opener not being announced by AT 17:39:52 believe we need to file an issue with a warning for authors: screen readers likely won't know this is happening 17:40:02 once I file on GitHub, will advise the list 17:40:14 there is another issue that I'd like some opinion on 17:40:24 +1 to MA's approach 17:41:53 MA: Question - there have been some tweaks to tabindex behavior - minor - one of things observed is that some browsers place the video 'player' in the focus order, and then the controls 17:42:13 which I think is good, as it speeds interaction (no need to tab through all the controls) 17:42:38 however there seems to be a discussion of taking the audio and video elements *OUT* of focus order 17:43:03 W3C prescedence is that those elements *are* focused, but WHAT WG wants to remove that 17:43:13 MA: is this an issue? 17:43:20 +1 to keeping audio and video in focus order 17:44:12 MA: the way that FF works today, if the page has the default controls, the video is a "floating block", as are the controls - they folat above (or below) the video player 17:44:26 that is the practical behavior of both FF and Chrome 17:44:33 Q+ 17:45:02 JS: don't want to rely just on "current practices" 17:45:20 MA: agree. My concern is that some folks might see this as a pro, but others as a con 17:45:34 q+ 17:45:45 MA: although the browser generated controls were less accessible than I expected 17:46:14 don't think the spec speaks to how they should be laid out - the behavior was unusual 17:46:27 think that either way, p[eople will have opinions 17:46:36 ack me 17:46:36 q? 17:46:44 ack jf 17:47:37 JF: suggest to use the "Pave the cowpaths" metaphor. If this is current behavior now, it should be 'specced' as such 17:47:53 MA: wil review again to make sure this isn't a recurring issue 17:48:07 if this doesn't match relaity, will use the "shold match" argument 17:48:31 MA: do we think this should hold up publishing 17:49:17 BG: only concern is if they mandate "taking away"... they currently don't. But what happens when they land on the video? Does it announce the title, or also announce the controls 17:49:35 JB: the screen reader may or may not give enough of accurate information 17:49:53 BG: not every user goes line-by-line, they may be tabbing instead 17:49:54 ack becka11y 17:50:05 JB: we might also argue that this is a SR bug 17:50:29 JB: have seen previousl giant "hacks" to try and force SR behavior 17:50:44 MA: so, am I hearing everyone in favor of keeping video and audio in focus order 17:51:03 JB: "personally" thinks it could go either way, but... 17:51:34 but if everyone outside of us says it *SHOULDN'T*, screen readers have other mechanisms to deal with concern 17:52:04 JB: this is all about containers at some level, so ya, we can figure this out 17:52:21 s/JB:/JD:/ 17:52:29 MA: OK, so when I file this, the "bug" is that the spec doesn't match the browsers, and then we can offer some suggestions 17:52:51 s/JB:/JD:/g 17:54:03 MA: Not clear if the scrubber control comes into focus... clear that there is a bigger discussion here we need to think through 17:54:45 MA: I think I have enough to file a bug, but... should this be a delay to the publication? 17:54:52 MA: believe no. Is this a show stopper 17:58:24 JF: either there is a bug filed against the spec, or against the browsers... 17:58:30 MA: asking about process 17:58:59 MC: File in WHAT WG, and a reference issue at W3C. Not sure if this snapshot would be turned into a rec 17:59:12 JS: yes, and don't want to wait a whole additional year 17:59:20 MC: OK, then file bug at WHAT WG 17:59:55 MA: will email list later today. Will note that we feel it is an issue, and advise of forthcoming GitHub issue (to be filed tomorrow) 18:00:03 and then link to the bug on our lists 18:00:51 [agreement on Matthew's plan] 18:01:24 MA: two other concerns in the email - won't discuss now, but there are some other things believe we should be tracking 18:01:49 please read and check out the concerns 18:02:07 JS: standing agenda item. We may need to put Becky ahead of you on next agenda 18:02:35 RRSAgent, make logs public 18:02:35 Becka11y has left #apa 18:02:43 trackbot, end meeting 18:02:43 Zakim, list attendees 18:02:43 As of this point the attendees have been JF, Matthew_Atkinson, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joshue, Becka11y 18:02:51 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:02:51 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/11/13-apa-minutes.html trackbot 18:02:52 RRSAgent, bye 18:02:52 I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2019/11/13-apa-actions.rdf : 18:02:52 ACTION: janina to review Decentralized Identifiers (DIDs) v1.0 https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/ - due 4 weeks [1] 18:02:52 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2019/11/13-apa-irc#T17-37-11