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15:41:15 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:41:15 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
15:41:15 <ivan> Chair: liisa
15:41:15 <ivan> Date: 2019-09-01
15:41:15 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Sep/0017.html
15:41:15 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-09-01: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Sep/0017.html
15:41:16 <ivan> Regrets+ jeff, george
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15:56:40 <laudrain> present+
15:59:46 <ivan> regrets+ BillK
16:00:37 <ivan> regrets+ Jonathan_Greenberg
16:00:59 <mateus> present+
16:01:14 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #pbg
16:01:28 <Karen> present+ Karen
16:01:35 <wendyreid> present+
16:01:37 <dauwhe_> present+
16:01:57 <ivan> present+
16:02:09 <Daihei> Daihei has joined #pbg
16:02:11 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is here?
16:02:11 <Zakim> Present: laudrain, mateus, Karen, wendyreid, dauwhe_, ivan
16:02:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see Daihei, Avneesh, laudrain, RRSAgent, Zakim, mateus, ivan, dauwhe, Rachel, wendyreid, Karen, Ralph, bigbluehat
16:02:18 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
16:02:23 <ivan> regrets+ liisa
16:02:51 <ivan> regrets+ rkwright
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16:03:54 <garth> present+ Garth
16:04:00 <Dan_Sanicola> present+
16:04:12 <ivan> present+ rachel
16:04:57 <Karen> scribenick: Karen
16:05:37 <Karen> Luc: Agenda first item is Updates
16:06:10 <Karen> ...there is every two weeks calls with US/Europe and Asia
16:06:15 <Karen> ...we rescheduled call from 17th
16:06:28 <Karen> ...of December
16:06:36 <Karen> ...Thank you, Garth for updating all of the invitations
16:06:43 <Karen> ...we will work this way through the end of this year
16:06:52 <Karen> ...and work with you again for next year [2020]
16:06:57 <Karen> ...Any comment on the schedule?
16:06:57 <laudrain> q?
16:07:02 <Avneesh> present+
16:07:19 <Karen> Luc: the way we want to work is to propose that you identify some business cases or issues you would like to discuss in this group
16:07:42 <Karen> ...we would like to have this looked after by 2-3 people outside of the PubBG calls, and then bring to this call for discussion and resolution
16:07:58 <laudrain> q+
16:08:02 <Karen> ...as there are two calls, there would be emails for consensus calls for the whole group so that all the PubBG members can participate
16:08:02 <laudrain> q-
16:08:11 <Karen> ...That is the first topic
16:08:20 <Karen> ...We are set up with dates for future calls
16:08:43 <Karen> ...We could not look at second topic, short feedback from TPAC Publishing Summit we organized
16:08:47 <ivan> Topic: Feedback from the TPAC event
16:08:56 <Karen> ...Daihei, would you please give us some feedback
16:09:02 <Karen> Daihei: Thank you for all who joined in the meeting
16:09:09 <Karen> ...and for the help with GTM and irc
16:09:20 <Karen> ...we had a lot of people attending from 9:00am to 12:30pm Japan
16:09:24 <Karen> ...at one time I counted
16:09:35 <Karen> ...around 70 people attending the event, and we originally planned for 50
16:09:38 <Karen> ...we had a full agenda
16:09:49 <Karen> ...and prior to that, having started the conference with Professor Jun Murai
16:09:59 <Karen> ...who started with a comment about this being an historic meeting
16:10:10 <Karen> ...right before that meeting, CSS Working Group announced the vertical writing
16:10:20 <Karen> ...which enables Japanese type or other vertically written language
16:10:33 <Karen> ...it can be made into the web very easily
16:10:41 <Karen> ...so now not only for Japanese
16:10:54 <Karen> ...also traditional horizontal writing for languages
16:11:08 <Karen> ...the real combination for a worldwide, diversified culture
16:11:22 <Karen> ...After that we covered EPUB3.2, Dave Cramer explained
16:11:31 <Karen> ...and the status of EPUBCheck2
16:11:43 <Karen> ...and @ from Kadokawa talked about EPUBCheck for Japan
16:11:49 <Karen> ...so this covered the status of EPUB3.2
16:11:55 <Karen> ...Discussion about AudioBook was organized
16:12:11 <Karen> ...Wendy Reid made a great presentation on the status and how it's going to a standard
16:12:19 <Karen> ...And Laurent spoke about audiobooks
16:12:37 <Karen> ...another example of publishing at W3C to go to a standard for Rec Track
16:12:43 <Karen> ...We then talked about Accessibility
16:12:53 <Karen> ...DAISY presentation
16:13:08 <Karen> ...and Accessibility in Japan; audio/visual things
16:13:19 <Karen> ...Avneesh explained to a greater extent the global accessibility
16:13:37 <Karen> ...and having difficulties being able to listen to the accessible audio system
16:13:49 <Karen> ...Makoto-san explained about accessibility for ISO standard
16:13:57 <Karen> ...it was very good quality presentations
16:14:10 <Karen> ...Finally, next stage for digital publications content and the business cases
16:14:15 <Karen> ...there were four people who presented
16:14:25 <Karen> ...Yoshii from Kodansha and @ from Kadokawa
16:14:34 <Karen> ...talked about their point of view from publishing industry people
16:14:46 <Karen> ...Additionally, there were two people stating their views from non-publishers
16:15:05 <Karen> ...One, Igarashi-san from SONY, co-chair from W3C Media & Entertainment IG
16:15:18 <Karen> ...he made interesting point that media people could do more convergence
16:15:25 <Karen> ...and finally Florian talked about EPUB3.2
16:15:33 <Karen> ...and after that "after EPUB" situation
16:15:42 <Karen> ...where he would like to have more participation from the Publishing members
16:16:09 <Karen> ...at W3C and others related to publishing industry to join in the CSS, HTML and other web technology groups to expand the horizon of digital publishing, going beyond the EPUB
16:16:15 <Karen> ...that was a 3.5 hour discussion
16:16:25 <Karen> ...and Professor Murai, also a key person at W3C
16:16:36 <Karen> ...he commented that this was a very productive meeting, as well as historic
16:16:40 <Karen> ...he proved the fact
16:16:49 <Karen> ...and he stayed for the whole meeting
16:17:00 <Karen> ...that is a good proof for how the meeting was
16:17:12 <Karen> ...Thank you Luc, all the people from the program committee, and thanks to W3C Keio
16:17:16 <Karen> ...the meeting went very well
16:17:24 <Karen> ...We had attendance from president from Kodansha
16:17:33 <Karen> ...Also president of Shuesha came the night before
16:17:37 <Karen> ...and he sent his key executives
16:17:45 <Karen> ...so there were key execs from Japan and from abroad
16:17:48 <Karen> ...that's about it, Luc
16:17:53 <Karen> Luc: thank you very much, Daihei
16:18:03 <Karen> ...you did a lot of work to make this meeting go smoothly
16:18:18 <Karen> ...Noting that the presentations were done in Japanese and English; slides were translated
16:18:32 <Karen> ...and some people spoke both languages and it was very interesting to be in this place and in Japan
16:18:45 <Karen> ...you have the link to the minutes, which includes links to the slides
16:18:59 <Karen> Daihei: I will post it and make it open to all the PubBG members later today
16:19:01 <laudrain> q?
16:19:06 <Karen> Luc: any comments or questions on this topic?
16:19:29 <Karen> Topic: Strategy Call Meeting; Future of Groups
16:19:41 <Karen> ...for PubBG, there were some points raised
16:19:53 <Karen> ...and once more point for EPUB3.2 to become a W3C Rec was raised
16:20:06 <Karen> ...we need to discuss this again in this group, hear the business view of this
16:20:12 <Karen> ...we will not discuss it thoroughly today
16:20:18 <Karen> ...but we propose that we consider all together
16:20:28 <Karen> ...the link to the document we established last winter
16:20:34 <Karen> ...where we put pros and cons in place
16:20:52 <Karen> ...this is the base document to work on, to think about this possibility together
16:21:01 <Karen> ...and hopefully come to consensus
16:21:21 <Karen> ...this is not about the EPUB3 CG; list is more than 250 members
16:21:35 <Karen> ...this is more about PubBG a question of business opportunity to have a Rec document
16:21:36 <dauwhe> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17CyIqihtjjzT7Abbcq9sSqLNqLGKs2cuXdg4DcFulGY/edit#gid=0
16:21:43 <Karen> ...Question is whether or not you think it is necessary
16:21:52 <dauwhe> q+
16:22:00 <Karen> ...We would like to discuss this thoroughly on next month's call
16:22:09 <Karen> ...Speaking about the way to work in this group
16:22:22 <Karen> ...Are there people here who would be willing to work and rebuild this document
16:22:34 <Karen> ...and build conditions for this group to come to consensus next month?
16:22:38 <Karen> ack dauwhe
16:22:56 <Karen> Dauwhe: The CG is discussing its roadmap and how we want it to evolve
16:23:03 <Karen> ...we will discuss this one week from Thursday
16:23:18 <Karen> ...we will send out documentation; a new charter draft, over the next few days
16:23:38 <Karen> [11 October 2019]
16:23:56 <Karen> Luc: if all the people will discuss this, it will be considered an open discussion
16:24:08 <Karen> ...and addressed in future calls, perhaps in the Asian-US call in two weeks
16:24:21 <Rachel> q+
16:24:28 <Karen> ...if you agree with the process, we will open this disussion and have elements to discuss
16:24:33 <Karen> ack Rachel
16:24:38 <Karen> Rachel: you mentioned process
16:24:46 <Karen> ...you mentioned comments on the spreadsheet
16:24:53 <Karen> ...what will be the process for making a decision?
16:25:05 <Avneesh> q+
16:25:05 <Karen> Luc: hopefully I would like to see this group come to consensus
16:25:12 <Karen> ...I have no pre-defined process for that
16:25:21 <Karen> ...It depends upon the various positions, pros and cons
16:25:27 <Karen> ...we will need to establish conditions
16:25:35 <Karen> ...I have no pre-defined process issues on that
16:25:36 <dauwhe> q+
16:25:37 <Karen> ...we can also share
16:25:44 <Karen> Rachel: I just want to be careful
16:25:51 <Karen> ...when we use the term "process"
16:26:06 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:26:09 <Karen> ...and make sure everyone agreed with the process before moving forward with a decision
16:26:20 <Karen> Avneesh: I see something missing in the spreadsheet
16:26:24 <Karen> ...how will EPUB change
16:26:28 <Karen> ...also relates to future roadmap
16:26:43 <laudrain> q+
16:26:43 <Karen> ...suppose CG sends us on a roadmap that they think are essential
16:26:56 <Karen> ...but we are not able to move forward on them because they are not yet mature specifications
16:27:09 <Karen> ...let us proceed and make decisions then
16:27:16 <Karen> Luc: ok
16:27:28 <Karen> ack dauwhe
16:27:40 <Karen> Dauwhe: The BG does not create specifications or create working groups
16:27:53 <Karen> ...the BG can offer advice and say yes, we think doing this in a certain way is a good idea
16:28:01 <Karen> ...which is different from writing a WG charter for EPUB
16:28:13 <Karen> ...just want us to maybe think a little bit what's within scope for the BG itself
16:28:26 <Karen> ...I think much of what the BG can do is to offer advice rather than making binding decisions
16:28:32 <Karen> Luc: ok, thank you, good point
16:28:33 <Karen> ack Luc
16:28:59 <Karen> Luc: I just wanted to be on queue to remind everyone that last year we did not think it was a good idea
16:29:05 <wendyreid> ack laudrain
16:29:08 <Karen> ...personally I do not think it's a good idea
16:29:19 <Karen> ...but we should be clear about what we put inside the Rec Track decision
16:29:28 <Karen> ...I had chance to discuss with Wendy R in Fukuoka
16:29:51 <Karen> ...One important thing is that EPUB should be compatible with the current state today because of business we do in the industry
16:30:04 <Karen> ...that is what BG has to take care about; it's about advice as you said, Dave
16:30:09 <Karen> ...we have already given some advice on that
16:30:11 <laudrain> q?
16:30:14 <Karen> ack WendyReid
16:30:34 <Karen> Wendy: I said this in Fukuoka
16:30:50 <Karen> ...should a WG, not nec publishing, to handle the work of EPUB3 Rec Track
16:31:06 <Karen> ...because I don't doubt things will change as we get privacy and horizontal reviews
16:31:20 <Karen> ...what is clear is that EPUB3 does not succeed if it is not backwards compatible
16:31:33 <Karen> ...any charter written must make backwards compatibility a requirement
16:31:44 <Karen> ...the perk is that we have a decade of incubation and implementation
16:32:02 <Karen> ...not like the problems we had with Web Publications where there were not problems identified or implemented
16:32:07 <Karen> ...There is space for the CG
16:32:14 <Karen> ...ideas to get incubated and could be
16:32:26 <Karen> ...rigor of the standardization process will be good in the long run
16:32:43 <Karen> ...industry has made it incredibly clear is EPUB is what they want to work on and what they want to sell
16:32:46 <mateus> +1 wendyreid
16:32:55 <Karen> ...why disrupt a billion industry
16:32:55 <Rachel> +1 wendyreid
16:32:58 <Karen> Luc: thank you for this
16:33:02 <Karen> ...I support your vision
16:33:09 <Karen> Luc: this is an open question
16:33:35 <laurent_> laurent_ has joined #pbg
16:33:44 <Karen> ...if there are no more comments now, we can share with PubBG, people who are not here, those who sent regrets and those who don't come to calls will consider these questions
16:33:54 <Karen> ...encourage everyone to have a look, and to share visions and comments
16:34:11 <Karen> ...For the process, I don't know how we will do it; hope we have a resolution and good consensus
16:34:22 <Karen> ...not sure if a vote is avaiailable or not; +1 or -1
16:34:26 <Avneesh> q+
16:34:28 <Karen> ...but we have to have this discussion
16:34:31 <Karen> ack Avneesh
16:34:37 <Karen> Avneesh: I am still a bit concerned
16:34:41 <Karen> ...the BG question
16:34:50 <Karen> ...can we work together to resolve this
16:35:10 <Karen> Luc: Dave, what do you expect from the CG that would help, or need to be synchronized with the BG?
16:35:17 <Karen> Dave: The CG exists to maintain EPUB3
16:35:37 <Karen> ...so we are eager for any feedback on how EPUB is working in the world, what works and what needs to be changed
16:35:48 <laudrain> q+
16:35:49 <Karen> ...We hope a lot of that feedback comes from the Business Group
16:36:11 <Karen> ...At least currently, I am trying to look at where EPUB needs to go, without making a decision on what process is the best way to achieve our goals
16:36:16 <Avneesh> +1 Dave
16:36:31 <Karen> ...And whether RecTrack is the best way to make EPUB better? I don't have the answer to that question now
16:36:44 <Karen> ...in short-term I want to focus on the roadmap and how to make the spec better
16:36:53 <Karen> ...and this can be folded into the other question of RecTrack
16:36:59 <Karen> ack laudrain
16:37:05 <Karen> Luc: Do we need to be in a hurry for that?
16:37:25 <Karen> ...As Avneesh said, having the CG building a view of the roadmap, and make the BG fully aware of the thoughts
16:37:37 <Karen> ...and not having these discussions before the CG builds something significant
16:37:41 <Karen> ...My question here to you all
16:37:46 <Karen> ...We don't have to set up time limit
16:37:59 <Karen> ...probably not say we have to take a decision in a month's time
16:38:05 <Avneesh> q+
16:38:11 <Karen> ...maybe two months or end of year, but it would be valuable to come to consensus
16:38:14 <Karen> ack Avneesh
16:38:33 <Karen> Avneesh: The PubBG charter...I don't think we can do it in one month
16:38:41 <Karen> ...just want to not go into a one-month cycle
16:38:51 <Karen> ...let's work closely with EPUB3 CG and then determine a timeline
16:38:55 <wendyreid> q+
16:39:00 <Karen> Luc: I heard Wendy say a Working Group
16:39:10 <Karen> ...if there is decision to go to RecTrack for EPUB
16:39:13 <Karen> ...Wendy?
16:39:21 <ivan> s/a Working Group/_a_ Working Group/
16:39:30 <Karen> Wendy: yes, I say this because the Publishing WG charter does expire next year
16:39:47 <Karen> ...I say a WG, because maybe the PubWG is rechartered, or perhaps we charter a new WG
16:39:50 <Karen> ...leaving that open
16:39:51 <ivan> +1 to Wendy
16:40:00 <Karen> ...because we still don't know what the future of the PubWG is
16:40:09 <Karen> Luc: very good, I think we are on task to build consensus
16:40:15 <Karen> ...thank you very much
16:40:24 <Karen> ...if no more comment, I propose we move on
16:40:30 <Karen> Topic: Accessibility
16:40:46 <Karen> Luc: As co-chairs of this BG, we are figuring out issues about the implementation of Accessibilty
16:40:51 <Karen> ...and this relates to different countries
16:41:06 <Karen> ...Some countries expect some things to work, other countries expect other things to work
16:41:17 <Karen> ...the work on Accessibility all over the world
16:41:30 <Karen> ...we had this interesting presentation from Avneesh; encourage you to read his slides and the minutes
16:41:54 <Karen> ...In Europe we have this issue; different countries have set up needs, we also have European directive
16:42:00 <Karen> ...we would like to share best practices
16:42:13 <Karen> ...that BG members and publishing industry in general could be more accurate
16:42:24 <Karen> ....and know what reading system should do
16:42:41 <Karen> ...we think it will help reading systems work in a systemized way
16:42:53 <Karen> ...would be bad to have to cope with different best practices and regulations
16:42:58 <Karen> ...This is something we would like to share with you
16:43:15 <Karen> ...There is a lot of work being done by DAISY, Benetech, others, especially on exposing metadata
16:43:26 <Karen> ...in digital bookstores is also an important issue
16:43:34 <Karen> ...there is good work on what should be explained to book stores
16:43:48 <Karen> ...so customers all over the world have the same way to expose the accessibility of ebooks
16:43:57 <laudrain> q?
16:44:05 <Karen> ...but we also want to have this discussion on implementations and what works and doesn't
16:44:09 <Karen> ack WendyReid
16:44:24 <Karen> Wendy: Speaking for Canada, we are trying to work on it, too. It's an international interest
16:44:35 <Karen> Luc: we have made some progress on the upstream part of supply chain
16:44:49 <Karen> ...we have EPUB Accessibility standard; we have the ISO one; discussions on metadata
16:45:04 <Karen> ...and also in ONYX to distribute to the supply chain
16:45:19 <Karen> ...and then showing possibility of the books stores, supply chain; and then the reading systems
16:45:25 <Avneesh> q+
16:45:28 <Karen> ...We would like the reading systems to be fully synchronized
16:45:33 <wendyreid> s/ONYX/ONIX/
16:45:38 <Karen> ...would you mind to have some kind of task force on that?
16:45:43 <Karen> ack Avneesh
16:45:54 <Karen> Avneesh: There is the accessibility testing protocol defines requirements
16:46:02 <Karen> ...but it's in form of a test book not in form of guidelines
16:46:13 <Karen> ...maybe this can be part of new roadmap, to have more guidelines
16:46:22 <Karen> ...we have 5-6 years of experience of testing
16:46:25 <Karen> ...production side
16:46:28 <Karen> ...knowledge base
16:46:37 <Karen> ...@ piece we have chartered the task force
16:46:40 <Karen> ...in EPUB3 CG
16:46:51 <Karen> ...definitely guidelines for reading systems, we could start a TF for that, yes
16:47:02 <Karen> Luc: you already have some piece of information, an epub?
16:47:09 <Karen> Avneesh: yes, a testing protocol
16:47:15 <Karen> Luc: is there a pointer, a web site
16:47:30 <Karen> Aveneesh: EPUBtest.org is doing it based on the protocol
16:47:41 <Karen> Luc: if people are volunteering for this TF, we should work on it
16:47:45 <Karen> ...good
16:47:47 <laudrain> q?
16:47:55 <Karen> Luc: next topic
16:48:01 <Karen> Topic: EPUBCheck Fundraising
16:48:12 <Karen> ...we have received some new funding recently
16:48:19 <Karen> ...it's still a bit more than two thirds
16:48:29 <Karen> ...we still need $50K dollars more
16:48:37 <Karen> ...we would like to relaunch the communications on this fundraising
16:48:40 <Karen> ...several tasks to do
16:48:46 <Karen> ...George identified task
16:49:03 <Karen> ...web page that spoke about the W3C fundraising should be updated. I will take care of that
16:49:42 <Karen> ...EPUBCheck management call, we identified there should be a document to explain the different phases; Romain did this, so please comment on this base document
16:49:51 <Karen> ...it should explain to the industry that it's not finished
16:50:06 <Karen> ...EPUBCheck is a long-term tool and should be maintained by people in open source, meaning that newcomers
16:50:25 <Karen> ...should be able to participate in the long-term, make it easy to bring new features, improvements
16:50:40 <Karen> ...there are some improvements on synchronization of media, media overlay that needs work
16:50:46 <Karen> ...looking at EPUB3 CG work
16:50:55 <Karen> ...and there will be new check to develop in the future
16:51:10 <Karen> ...it can be done in a way where it doesn't only depend on DAISY, but also rely on the larger community
16:51:20 <Karen> ...we need some money still; and there is testing work
16:51:38 <Karen> ...meaning EPUBCheck has to be validated. There is huge work from Romain to build a testing suite
16:51:55 <Karen> ...it is being considered to have resources outsourced, so another reason why we need money
16:52:27 <Karen> ...I shared the document from Romain, and the slides Romain showed us at the F2F at TPAC Fukuoka, where he explains how we can open up this development to newcomers
16:52:39 <Karen> ...The slides are in English and Japanese, so good to propogate
16:52:48 <Karen> ...We should think about more communications about this project
16:52:58 <Karen> ...I will prepare a blog post for the relaunch in the next two weeks
16:53:16 <Karen> ...the next time we need to pay DAISY Consortium is the beginning of next year; we are short and need money for the next phase
16:53:18 <laudrain> q?
16:53:20 <Karen> ...Questions or comments?
16:53:34 <Karen> ...good
16:53:46 <Karen> ...We also have this discussion in this gorup on the long-term
16:53:52 <Karen> s/gorup/group
16:54:00 <Karen> ...we would like to identify business cases that are in the market
16:54:08 <Karen> ...we are looking at new business done in new markets
16:54:15 <Karen> ...where web technologies are used but without standards
16:54:32 <Karen> ...that these cases are successful is a hint for how to standardize them for the whole community
16:54:36 <Karen> ...there is a question of competition
16:54:47 <Karen> ...but we know standards also enable good competition in all our markets
16:54:54 <Karen> ...Something we should share here and hope future meetings
16:55:02 <Karen> ...this winter to bring new hints of the future
16:55:09 <Daihei> q＋
16:55:15 <Karen> ack Daihei
16:55:32 <Karen> Daihei: after TPAC I had a few discussions with people inside of publishing
16:55:43 <Karen> ...having told them about what next stage of DigPub could be
16:55:53 <Karen> ...some were already engaged in some projects going beyond EPUB
16:56:05 <Karen> ...or they are not necessarily thinking about it
16:56:10 <Karen> ...some staying in print books
16:56:17 <Karen> ...others doing Manga to expand
16:56:29 <laudrain> q+
16:56:31 <Karen> ...the entertainment park kind of ideas
16:56:44 <Karen> ...also including developers, almost like Disneyland on a small scale
16:56:48 <Karen> ...ride with the characters
16:56:59 <Karen> ...a company might have special editions of Manga stories
16:57:16 <Karen> ...or peopel talking about web publications for children books or for educational purposes
16:57:20 <Karen> ...not only in Japan
16:57:28 <Karen> ...but I spoke with entertainment industry people in US
16:57:42 <Karen> ...SONY omniplex and SONY TV
16:57:51 <Karen> ...they are also trying to go into anime
16:57:57 <Karen> ...nature business but also
16:58:14 <Karen> ...a spin-out of products utilizing publishing technologies
16:58:21 <Karen> ...related to Manga and comics
16:58:28 <Karen> ...we should look into what is going on
16:58:40 <Karen> ...and think through the pros and cons, the technology and creative aspects
16:59:02 <Karen> ...and how it has chances of developing larger publishing business
16:59:08 <Karen> ...that's what I think we should do
16:59:15 <Karen> Luc: you reminded me that we skipped a point
16:59:20 <Karen> ...about engaging with EPUBCG
16:59:31 <Karen> ...we will discuss with Laurent LeMeur about this @
16:59:38 <Karen> ...to get more insights to engage more with this
16:59:49 <Karen> ...creation and development business and perhaps future standard
16:59:52 <laudrain> q?
16:59:53 <Karen> ...we are almost at the hour
16:59:57 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:59:58 <Karen> ...if you have no comments for today
17:00:09 <Karen> ...I wish you a nice day, night, afternoon to all
17:00:16 <Karen> ...and thank you very much for these discussions
17:00:18 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:00:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/10/01-pbg-minutes.html ivan
17:00:18 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:00:18 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
17:00:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:00:18 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been laudrain, mateus, Karen, wendyreid, dauwhe_, ivan, Garth, Dan_Sanicola, rachel, Avneesh
17:00:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
17:00:20 <Karen> [adjourned]