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15:39:12 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:39:12 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Working Group Telco
15:39:12 <ivan> Chair: warred
15:39:12 <ivan> Date: 2019-09-30
15:39:12 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2019Sep/0021.html
15:39:12 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-09-30: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2019Sep/0021.html
15:39:13 <ivan> Regrets+ Luc, Rachel, dauwhe, george, teenya
15:44:10 <ivan> regrets+ geoff
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16:01:41 <franco> franco has joined #pwg
16:01:45 <franco> present+
16:01:47 <ivan> present+
16:02:09 <ivan> regrets+ laurent
16:02:32 <wendyreid> present+
16:02:34 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #pwg
16:02:59 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #pwg
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16:03:43 <wendyreid> zakim, pick a victim
16:03:43 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose wendyreid
16:03:45 <gpellegrino> present+
16:03:53 <Nellie> Nellie has joined #pwg
16:03:56 <wendyreid> zakim, pick a victim
16:03:56 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose gpellegrino
16:03:59 <Nellie> present+
16:04:26 <wendyreid> zakim, pick a victim
16:04:26 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ivan
16:05:29 <CharlesL> scribe+
16:05:37 <ivan> present+ CharlesL
16:05:42 <rkwright> present+\
16:05:57 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-09-09-pwg
16:05:59 <BenSchroeter> BenSchroeter has joined #pwg
16:06:02 <BenSchroeter> present+
16:06:04 <CharlesL> Wendy: Minutes from 3 weeks ago
16:06:17 <marisa> marisa has joined #pwg
16:06:20 <CharlesL> … minutes approved.
16:06:22 <ivan> resolved: minutes of 3 weeks ago approved
16:06:24 <marisa> present+
16:06:37 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-09-16-pwg
16:06:37 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-09-17-pwg
16:06:49 <CharlesL> TPAC minutes (2 days)
16:07:10 <ivan> resolved: TPAC meeting minutes approved
16:07:11 <CharlesL> … Benjamin created them
16:07:20 <CharlesL> … approved
16:07:29 <CharlesL> Topic: TPAC overview
16:07:54 <CharlesL> Wendy: 2 days of meeting, goal to get a plan for testing / implmentation
16:08:08 <CharlesL> talked about Da-Future!
16:08:16 <User2> User2 has joined #pwg
16:08:17 <CharlesL> talked to DPUB-ARIA
16:08:25 <CharlesL> s/to/about/
16:08:44 <CharlesL> talked to the MathML folks about native mathML in chrome
16:09:04 <romain> romain has joined #pwg
16:09:11 <CharlesL> s/talked/… talked/
16:09:28 <romain> present+
16:09:34 <Avneesh> present+
16:09:41 <CharlesL> … talked to the PING folks on Privacy/Security all in the minutes
16:10:21 <CharlesL> … publication manifest 2 prong approach web platform tests to test all the must/should in audio books and publication manifest based on schema 1 part, and will get updates in a min.
16:10:55 <CharlesL> … not in audio book spec yet but we will need to write some manual tests for user agent implementations
16:11:09 <CharlesL> … like what happens when non-audio appears in the reading order.
16:11:46 <CharlesL> … if you are interested in writing tests or to implement the manifest formats on production side please let us know.
16:12:15 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:12:15 <Zakim> Present: franco, ivan, wendyreid, gpellegrino, Nellie, CharlesL, \, BenSchroeter, marisa, romain, Avneesh
16:12:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see romain, User2, marisa, BenSchroeter, Nellie, david_stroup, CharlesL, franco, Avneesh, rkwright, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, mgarrish, Karen, wendyreid, plinss_, github-bot,
16:12:18 <Zakim> ... jamesn, achraf, sangwhan, Travis, bigbluehat, astearns, jyasskin
16:12:20 <CharlesL> … Benjamin can you give an update?
16:13:29 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pwg
16:13:36 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:13:54 <CharlesL> … Two major things coming out of TPAC, Web Annotations looked at all must/should created schema tests which we could do as well, but maybe we could just do 1 large test instead of a lot of small tests.  There were some issues before on implementing this but maybe that has been resolved.  waiting for an update.
16:14:01 <ivan> q+
16:14:05 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:14:19 <CharlesL> … looking for some tool to to pull out must/shoulds that RESPEC might be able to do.
16:14:45 <CharlesL> Ivan: I am not sure there is a Pull request that is outstanding that may need to be reviewed.
16:14:59 <CharlesL> … we don't want to wait on each other.
16:15:34 <CharlesL> Wendy: adding to the agenda, we want to look at the issues to see what we can close.  Checklist for CR need to have # of issues closed.
16:15:52 <CharlesL> … Ivan, do you want to look at checklist?
16:15:58 <garth> garth has joined #pwg
16:16:04 <CharlesL> … cr what we need to do to get to CR.
16:16:07 <garth> present+ Garth
16:17:05 <CharlesL> Ivan: interesting thing at TPAC Thur/Fri and some breakout groups. old issue on base direction, now JSONLD new spec will include features that were missing so far.
16:17:07 <ivan> https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues/75
16:17:55 <CharlesL> … language similar level JSONLD base direction we can modify our pub manifest, changes that are necessary
16:18:32 <CharlesL> … I will prepare a pull request with detailed changes and then we can discuss it later.  look at the issue I put in IRC
16:18:43 <CharlesL> … questions?
16:19:06 <CharlesL> Wendy: this could solve most of the I18N folks were asking for.
16:19:14 <ivan> Topic: CR Checklist
16:19:22 <CharlesL> Ivan: created a wiki page
16:19:23 <ivan> https://github.com/w3c/publ-wg/wiki/%5BPublishing-WG%5D-CR-Transition-for-pub-manifest-and-audiobooks
16:19:44 <CharlesL> … pattern used to submit a CR req. shows what we need to complete.
16:20:09 <CharlesL> … some admin stuff but we need to look at charter req. we need to answer.
16:20:49 <Avneesh> q+
16:21:07 <CharlesL> … we will need to come up with a response to that.  wide review to HR which we will need to add for APA & PING review and we are done and we are fine, and Brady did PING but we will need to have all pointers to the wiki page.
16:21:09 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
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16:21:28 <duga> present+
16:22:12 <CharlesL> Avneesh: We had a discussion with APA meeting and they will do a voting on the mailing list, and Janina said they will do this by the end of September and I sent a reminder today.
16:22:47 <CharlesL> Wendy: for PING we didn't get formal approval but this was more about an initial discussion
16:22:53 <CharlesL> Ivan: but answers/references need to go to the wiki
16:23:23 <CharlesL> … wiki page added URLs which are searches into the open issues, / postponed and list for all the closed issues.
16:23:49 <CharlesL> … beyond audio profile and pub manifest I added the web publication issues as well.
16:24:32 <CharlesL> … we will have to close all the issues, so far no formal objectives and implementation part which we will talk about and document what we intend to do and how we will report and what implementations we plan to have.
16:24:56 <CharlesL> … we dont' have to have the full test suite before we ask for transition but more we have the better.
16:25:35 <CharlesL> … look at wiki for things to add to it.  Careful about: once CR has been published the document itself can not change in terms of technical content, editorial changes are fine.
16:26:02 <CharlesL> … if we do a technical change in CR then we will have to go through the same process described here again.
16:26:28 <CharlesL> … if you have a technical issue that you want solved in CR then speak up now or so hold your peace!
16:27:21 <CharlesL> Wendy: Called for Closing at TPAC unless someone has an objection.
16:27:32 <CharlesL> … most of the remaining issues seem to be editorial
16:28:10 <CharlesL> q+
16:28:19 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
16:28:54 <wendyreid> CharlesL: Just a question for the testing and writing tests for MUSTs and SHOULDs, in the past I know that Tzviya would go with the other chairs and draw up a spreadsheet of who would do what
16:29:06 <ivan> scribe+ wendyreid
16:29:15 <CharlesL> scribe+
16:29:18 <ivan> q+
16:29:22 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:29:33 <CharlesL> Wendy: I have my own spreadsheet who is responsible for what but that is a good idea.
16:30:45 <Avneesh> Issue #13, I suggsted some improvements but it looks that I do not have rights to reopen it.
16:30:47 <Avneesh> https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues/13
16:30:54 <CharlesL> Ivan: Vocabularies in the past was to prove that terms in the vocabulary are useful either used or publishers may plan to use it for audio books or others.  Is this the kind of test for the dpub manifest, some of them may be used in the audio manifest.
16:31:37 <CharlesL> … feedback from publisher that they would need this term for their publications.  Many of the terms are coming from schema.org so those I am not sure they are normative in our case.
16:32:23 <mgarrish> q+
16:32:25 <CharlesL> … with manifest is processing into an internal data structure, but maybe we want test to the implementations.
16:32:32 <ivan> present+ mgarrish
16:32:33 <wendyreid> ack mgarrish
16:32:56 <CharlesL> Matt: normative/non normative values EPUB- Manifest mapping would be useful?
16:33:10 <CharlesL> Ivan: that would be useful.  indirectly that terms the community uses.
16:33:21 <CharlesL> Matt: that isn't hard to do, but just needs to be done.
16:33:25 <CharlesL> Ivan: good idea!
16:33:37 <CharlesL> Wendy: interesting Test how well we conform to EPUB.
16:33:55 <CharlesL> … any other questions about CR or the tests?
16:34:07 <CharlesL> <silence>
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16:34:52 <gpellegrino> q+
16:34:57 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
16:35:07 <ivan> q+
16:35:21 <CharlesL> Wendy:  Ok, I will create a spreadsheet with general roles of people, I will create once I get an idea from Benjamin / Laurent how to structure the tests single vs. multiple.
16:35:47 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:35:49 <CharlesL> Gregoria: I can help Matt with the EPUB
16:35:58 <ivan> q-
16:36:35 <CharlesL> Ivan: should have formal procedures tests accepted by everyone, reviewed by the WG.
16:36:58 <CharlesL> … light weight procedure submit PR so interested folks can review before merge.
16:37:05 <CharlesL> Wendy: that works for me.
16:37:48 <CharlesL> Wendy: test folders in each of the pub manifest / audio manifest directories.  everyone can submit PRs or comment on them.
16:38:20 <CharlesL> … I will work on this this week, and will get in touch with folks on their various jobs.
16:38:35 <CharlesL> … any other business questions?  TPAC?
16:38:43 <Avneesh> q+
16:38:50 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
16:39:36 <CharlesL> Avneesh: regarding I don't think any comment was #30 closed issue I don't have the rights.
16:39:58 <CharlesL> Wendy: alternate HTML .. sync media
16:40:10 <ivan> q+
16:40:14 <CharlesL> s/Wendy:/…/
16:40:19 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:41:10 <CharlesL> Ivan: when I read the minutes demos from Marissa which is great, has their been discussions refer to /combined with audio book spec or the other spec.   wouldn't be normative but we should refer to it, it wasn't clear from the minutes.
16:41:45 <CharlesL> … published as a separate note, keep it related to audio books but could be applied to anything pub manifest text/audio linked via json
16:42:10 <CharlesL> Marissa: standalone note to any HTML document, let me know what works for you to refer to it.
16:42:38 <CharlesL> Ivan: a WG Note?  or a report of the Task Force.
16:42:39 <Avneesh> q+
16:42:48 <CharlesL> … if its a stand alone doc. then CG Note.
16:42:54 <CharlesL> … You are a CG right?
16:43:03 <CharlesL> Marissa: Yes CG.
16:43:17 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
16:43:38 <CharlesL> Ivan: so a CG can create a CG Report and is what should it be.
16:44:03 <CharlesL> Avneesh: Yes we discussed this a year ago and decided this would be a CG Report.
16:44:16 <CharlesL> Wendy: yes this will be a Non-Normative reference to that
16:44:28 <CharlesL> .. we are covered and all is good.
16:44:35 <CharlesL> s/../…/
16:44:39 <marisa> s/Marissa/Marisa
16:45:06 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:45:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/30-pwg-minutes.html ivan
16:45:06 <ivan> zakim, bye
16:45:06 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:45:06 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:45:06 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been franco, ivan, wendyreid, gpellegrino, Nellie, CharlesL, \, BenSchroeter, marisa, romain, Avneesh, Bill_Kasdorf, Garth, duga,
16:45:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pwg