00:01:14 RRSAgent has joined #webapps 00:01:14 logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-webapps-irc 00:01:41 TOPIC: WebApps WG TPAC 19 Sep 00:02:10 Zakim has joined #webapps 00:02:17 rrsagent, set logs world-visible 00:02:24 SteveBecker has joined #webapps 00:02:48 Meeting structure https://github.com/w3c/webappswg/issues/10 00:03:00 Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/webappswg/issues/10 00:03:31 JohnJansen_ has joined #webapps 00:04:48 mustaq has joined #webapps 00:05:08 meeting: WebApps WG TPAC Meeting 00:08:54 oriol has joined #webapps 00:08:57 present+ 00:09:00 cmp has joined #webapps 00:09:01 present+ 00:09:01 present+ 00:09:03 present+ 00:09:04 present+ 00:09:05 present+ 00:09:05 present+ Mustaq Ahmed 00:09:08 present+ 00:09:10 present+ 00:09:11 msw_ has joined #webapps 00:09:13 present+ Olli_Pettay 00:09:16 `present+ Léonie (tink) 00:09:17 lgombos has joined #webapps 00:09:19 sidvishnoi has joined #webapps 00:09:22 ella has joined #webapps 00:09:24 dmurph has joined #webapps 00:09:27 present+ NavidZ 00:09:35 present+ Mike_Wasserman (Google) 00:09:38 joemedley has joined #webapps 00:10:01 Present+ Laszlo_Gombos 00:10:04 wanderview has joined #webapps 00:10:08 bkardell_ has joined #webapps 00:10:10 tomayac has joined #webapps 00:10:16 present+ 00:10:24 present+ 00:10:33 anssik has joined #webapps 00:10:34 present+ 00:10:37 present+ 00:10:38 christianliebel has joined #webapps 00:10:39 present + 00:10:49 Kangchan has joined #webapps 00:10:53 szager has joined #webapps 00:10:55 present+ Oriol Brufau (Igalia) 00:11:06 asa has joined #webapps 00:11:26 present+ Kangchan Lee (ETRI) 00:11:29 asa_ has joined #webapps 00:11:30 present- 00:11:45 present+ Daniel Murphy (Google) 00:11:52 christianliebel has joined #webapps 00:11:58 Code of conduct: https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/cepc-20141022/Overview.html 00:12:00 present 00:12:05 present 00:12:15 present+ 00:12:23 garykac has joined #webapps 00:12:32 beverloo has joined #webapps 00:12:38 +garykac 00:12:57 odejesush has joined #webapps 00:13:20 heejin has joined #webapps 00:13:29 present+ 00:13:58 harrisjay has joined #webapps 00:14:01 code of conduct: https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/cepc-20151007/ 00:14:45 annevk has joined #webapps 00:14:58 webapps charter: https://www.w3.org/2019/05/webapps-charter.html 00:16:11 Dongwoo has joined #webapps 00:16:46 jay has joined #webapps 00:17:04 thomas_the_fish has joined #webapps 00:19:21 https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/cepc-20141022/Overview.html 00:19:25 https://github.com/w3c/webappswg/issues/10 00:19:37 GameMaker has joined #WEBAPPS 00:19:51 horo has joined #webapps 00:20:16 kelvin has joined #webapps 00:21:34 sagoston has joined #webapps 00:21:42 npm has joined #webapps 00:22:18 yoichio_ has joined #webapps 00:22:58 Mek: not much progress, but we added new promisy methods. Don't expect to see many more changes but we need cleanup 00:23:14 https://github.com/w3c/FileAPI/issues/138 00:23:46 present+ 00:23:55 GameMaker has joined #WEBAPPS 00:23:55 Mek: some mostly need to talk to annevk 00:24:01 ricea has joined #webapps 00:24:01 present+ 00:24:07 present+ 00:24:19 present+ 00:24:23 present+ 00:24:27 present+ 00:24:47 MC: anything blocking? 00:24:51 Mek: just time 00:25:24 darwin has joined #webapps 00:25:25 Let's move onto Gamepad API 00:25:51 https://github.com/w3c/gamepad/issues/99 00:25:52 JohnJansen has joined #webapps 00:26:24 steve: we are trying to get to CR. We have a privacy issue and a proposal. 00:27:05 steve: we have some tests in WPT. 00:27:05 present+ 00:27:26 MC: it would good to see how much test coverage we have . 00:27:49 present+ 00:28:03 Indexed Database API 00:28:15 present+ 00:28:17 IndexDB 00:28:28 https://github.com/w3c/IndexedDB/issues/290 00:28:33 dmurph: three major changes 00:28:49 dmurph: 1) IDBFactory databases 00:29:09 2) IDBTransaction commit() -- explicit transaction commit 00:29:23 dmurph: 3) IDBCursor request attribute (?) 00:29:32 oyiptong has joined #webapps 00:29:32 Darwin_Huang has joined #webapps 00:29:42 dmurph: Better controls over transaction lifetime and status 00:30:01 present+ 00:30:11 dmurph: Maybe not enough support to move to CR due to lack of adoption 00:30:39 dmurph: Need to chat with Mozilla people 00:30:43 Darwin_Huang has joined #webapps 00:31:17 GameMake_ has joined #WEBAPPS 00:31:20 dmurph: Seeking opinions from Apple; Brady/Apple is the person, but not present 00:32:37 takumif has joined #webapps 00:33:08 https://github.com/w3c/IntersectionObserver/issues/380 00:33:33 horo has joined #webapps 00:35:12 saschanaz has joined #webapps 00:37:58 IntersectionObserver tl;dr -- basically ready for CR, implemented in all major browsers 00:38:18 szager evangelizing for IntersectionObserver V2 (occlusion detection) 00:38:36 PointerLock 00:39:19 Issues due to OS display scaling affecting cursor location 00:39:47 There's a path forward on Windows, looking for Apple people to collaborate 00:40:17 Looking for usability feedback prior to CR 00:40:53 present+ 00:41:55 Push API 00:42:04 Concern about testability 00:42:25 jay has joined #webapps 00:43:02 Improvements in interop over last 12 months 00:43:46 Editor(s) unsure whether it's worthwhile to move to CR 00:44:26 API may undergo additional churn, so CR may be premature 00:44:46 Screen Orientation API 00:44:58 sanketj has joined #webapps 00:45:37 Spec overhauled over last 12 months 00:45:51 Added lots of WPT 00:46:04 Testing on mobile is tedious 00:46:51 Fun issues around lock() reentry 00:47:23 jay has joined #webapps 00:47:35 Still lots of work to do 00:47:43 Seeking input from WebKIt 00:48:06 whsieh has joined #webapps 00:48:36 raymes has joined #webapps 00:49:07 Web Manifest spec 00:49:18 torgo has joined #webapps 00:49:22 Limited progress; wanting for feedback from browsers 00:49:28 present+ Dan Appelquist 00:50:04 Testing the feature is hard 00:50:26 Shout out to Maximiliano Firtman (@firt) 00:50:42 Just got into Firefox preview, waiting for issues/feedback 00:51:25 concerns around BeforeInstallPrompt() 00:52:10 aarongu: Want to add "shortcuts" to manifest, to enable long-press type shortcuts for install 00:52:36 aarongu: Initial feedback is positive, more discussion necessary 00:52:48 shortcuts = context menu like capability 00:53:06 Web Share API 00:53:31 shortcuts background/discussion https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/582 00:54:29 This is an example of the standards process working well 00:54:39 shipped in chromium and webkit, being implemented in firefox 00:55:06 CR process should be smooth sailing 00:55:31 Do we want to support sharing files? Security concerns. 00:56:12 How to do feature detection for level-2 features? 00:56:32 tantek has joined #webapps 00:56:52 Here come the editing specs.. 00:57:19 UIEvents 00:57:19 present+ 00:57:36 RRSAgent, make logs public 00:57:39 Long crufty history of this spec 00:58:19 tantek: Need significant rewrites of old spec prior to CR 00:58:36 s/tantek/??? 00:59:09 Anybody: who is the speaker? 00:59:41 dharani has joined #webapps 01:00:01 pwnall has joined #webapps 01:00:21 garykac: This is grungy unglamorous work, but the current state is limiting other API's 01:00:29 aarongu has left #webapps 01:00:35 Clipboard API 01:00:35 aarongu has joined #webapps 01:00:47 hello 01:00:56 present+ 01:01:25 garykac: implemented text and image support, spec work to follow 01:01:42 garykac: Long list of desired features 01:02:19 garykac: Async text clipboard API was first step; step two adds image support 01:02:27 garykac: Seeking feedback 01:04:34 present+ 01:04:36 present+ 01:04:38 jsbell will talk about IndexDB cursor requests 01:04:53 marcosc_ has joined #webapps 01:05:16 jsbell: cursor->request bookkeeping was hard, now it's easy 01:05:23 karl has joined #webapps 01:05:26 jsbell: \o/ 01:05:43 wonsuk___ has joined #webapps 01:05:48 Input Events API 01:06:01 Johannes Wil, 01:06:03 Wilm 01:06:04 jw 01:06:11 christianliebel has joined #webapps 01:06:11 Johannes Will: Two levels of API 01:06:14 present+ 01:06:23 Level 1 implemented in chromium and WK 01:06:27 Level 2 only in @K 01:06:28 WK 01:06:29 present+ 01:06:37 Seeking feedback from chromium 01:07:07 present+ 01:07:28 Input Events and Contenteditable -> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/199 01:07:49 marcosc_: Maybe time to revisit two-implementor policy for spec progress 01:07:50 dlibby_ has joined #webapps 01:08:42 Johanness Will (JW): Level 2 was original proposal, but chromium discovered problems and backed off original proposal, leading to schism 01:09:02 JW: Onus on chromium to suggest path forward 01:09:12 Selection API 01:09:55 Postpone Selection API pending rniwa 01:10:02 ContentEditable 01:10:24 JW: All browsers have legacy implementations without formal spec 01:10:44 JW: Intention is to revisit after Input Events API 01:11:22 JW: execCommand is buggiest part 01:11:39 IDBCursor request video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1TEPQz02iU 01:13:14 jsbell: Please subscribe to my YT channel! 01:13:43 Pthbbbbt 01:14:04 Accessibility specs... 01:14:12 Editors not present, can anyone speak? 01:14:51 Leonie Watson (LW): Lack of tests is primary impediment 01:15:04 present+ Victor Costan (Google) 01:15:54 LW: Extracting old accessibility from HTML5 spec created lack of implementors 01:16:34 LW: There are active participants from Apple and Mozilla 01:17:43 q+ to ask about the things that have come over from WICG? 01:17:58 RRSAgent, make minutes 01:17:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-webapps-minutes.html karl 01:18:16 RRSAgent, make logs world-visible 01:20:17 https://github.com/w3c/editing/blob/gh-pages/TPAC/2019/Agenda.md 01:21:08 Editing Meeting -> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/198 01:24:04 msw_ has joined #webapps 01:27:11 I'd like to discuss text range references with anyone interested, e.g. https://indieweb.org/fragmentions 01:29:48 szager has left #webapps 01:35:48 kimwooglae has joined #webapps 01:39:49 aarongu has joined #webapps 01:50:43 aarongu has joined #webapps 01:52:55 aarongu here's one pointer https://github.com/w3c/payment-method-manifest/issues/27 01:54:46 torgo has joined #webapps 02:05:15 aboxhall_ has joined #webapps 02:06:28 ericc has joined #webapps 02:06:55 aarongu has joined #webapps 02:12:40 jay has joined #webapps 02:13:02 christianliebel has joined #webapps 02:14:39 msw_ has joined #webapps 02:35:25 aarongu has joined #webapps 02:38:05 kinuko has joined #webapps 02:45:53 staphany has joined #webapps 02:45:55 https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/143w70xtfqculs5x-bPgTOwu6GZO6uTOYeBjnN63pzs8/edit?usp=sharing 02:46:33 present+ 02:46:42 present+ Staphany Park (Google) 02:47:20 pwnall has joined #webapps 02:47:33 present+ Victor Costan (Google) 02:52:40 aarongu has joined #webapps 02:56:07 karl has joined #webapps 03:02:35 ericc has joined #webapps 03:05:09 christianliebel has joined #webapps 03:21:28 whsieh has joined #webapps 03:23:12 whsieh has joined #webapps 03:24:52 christianliebel has joined #webapps 04:04:02 can people announce what and when they are going to talk about in the web apps room in this IRC channel? 04:04:08 torgo has joined #webapps 04:08:57 msw_ has joined #webapps 04:13:51 ericc has joined #webapps 04:23:02 christianliebel has joined #webapps 04:24:05 whsieh has joined #webapps 04:34:52 ericc has joined #webapps 04:38:09 whsieh has joined #webapps 04:41:10 Going to try and talk about IndexedDB in the next few minutes 04:43:47 christianliebel has joined #webapps 04:47:36 whsieh has joined #webapps 04:48:51 karl has joined #webapps 04:59:51 jay has joined #webapps 05:00:16 topic: Image Resource 05:00:56 marcos: Things to be careful of: purpose, things that are weird in different contexts, overly specific 05:01:16 webmanifest we're going to convert into info types 05:01:28 we can redefine the whole manifest spec in terms of that. 05:01:33 whsieh has joined #webapps 05:02:01 aaron: Does that make it so that image resource would be extensible within webappmanifest 05:02:10 marcos: yes, where possible we'd try and share 05:02:35 rayan: We're using the image resource in background fetch and content indexing 05:03:03 beverloo: Matt just raised an issue on the image spec adding 50 new purposes 05:03:07 Zakim has left #webapps 05:03:43 marcos: Other things to keep in mind are that it isn't just the members, its the processing model: needs to be generalized correctly. 05:03:59 Would the maskable stuff stay in here? 05:04:19 rayan: Maskable is very specific to manifest 05:04:29 aaron: Usable in the context of the icon and shortcut icon 05:04:42 beverloo: About to ship on Android for WebAPKs 05:04:55 rayan: platform and purpose are very manifest specific. 05:05:06 marcos: Probably need to talk to jake 05:05:53 aaron: If we migrate it to a new repo, do we migrate issues? 05:05:56 marcos: yes. 05:06:09 aaron: Wanted to bring up color scheme: Image is for a specific theme 05:07:00 ??: 3D image resources 05:07:43 marcos: question in my mind is is it just an image type? 05:08:11 ??: Want a new mimetype 05:08:23 s/??/hernicus 05:08:36 aaron: Favicon is separate from this spec 05:08:44 user agent can determine if it wants to use it 05:08:59 hernicus: Only new thing then would be size (we have 3 dimensions) 05:09:56 marcos: If there are 2 x's then we could assume it's a 3D size. 05:10:41 marcos: Probably needs to go through the html spec 05:11:17 we will pick it up automatically afterwards. 05:11:48 aaron: Good in our book. 05:12:11 christianliebel has joined #webapps 05:18:10 topic: Color Schemes 05:18:21 aaron: Different icons for different color schemes 05:18:30 maybe works with highncontrast? 05:18:37 some colors don't look good in darkmode 05:18:52 the vscode nightly icon looks bad in night mode --> Nice to have options 05:19:05 raymes: What is exposed to the website 05:19:20 aaron: The say in the manifest what scheme the icon is for (by default all) 05:19:48 beverloo: I like it. It's probably hard to support on Android, but I'm for it. 05:20:26 aaron: Wouldn't dynamically switch on Android 05:20:44 beverloo: This is tricky, we can maybe do something about it? 05:21:05 might be hard on Firefox, because you use shortcuts, which can't be updated. 05:21:20 sam_ has joined #webapps 05:22:34 beverloo: I'm a bit concerned, we're worried about the default case working well 05:22:46 Devs will have to test, probably not top of mind 05:22:59 too easy to just set it to light mode and forget. 05:23:22 aaron: No preference would be the default, so it would probably work okayish 05:23:35 we should copy what the color scheme folks are doing. 05:24:06 leaves it open to the OS to convert the icon (if that's the kind of thing it wants to do) 05:24:22 scheib has joined #webapps 05:25:29 marcos: Who wants to do the work 05:25:34 aaron: I'll do it. 05:26:06 soju has joined #webapps 05:27:49 soju_ has joined #webapps 05:28:54 soju has joined #webapps 05:37:02 christianliebel has joined #webapps 06:03:07 kimwooglae has joined #webapps 06:07:04 bkardell_ has joined #webapps 06:08:30 christianliebel has joined #webapps 06:18:04 pamela has joined #webapps 06:22:58 msw_ has joined #webapps 06:24:08 christianliebel has joined #webapps 06:30:22 tantek has joined #webapps 06:31:08 koji has left #webapps 06:37:07 ericc has joined #webapps 06:46:32 whsieh has joined #webapps 07:09:07 tantek has left #webapps 07:09:15 tantek has joined #webapps 07:18:42 whsieh has joined #webapps 07:19:12 tomayac has joined #webapps 07:21:15 aarongu has joined #webapps 07:37:47 whsieh has joined #webapps 07:39:59 aarongu has joined #webapps 07:49:02 whsieh has joined #webapps 07:55:01 wonsuk has joined #webapps 08:04:23 whsieh has joined #webapps 08:07:16 aarongu has joined #webapps 08:21:47 tantek_ has joined #webapps 08:24:09 christianliebel has joined #webapps 08:25:18 dka_ has joined #webapps 08:48:10 msw_ has joined #webapps 08:52:28 torgo has joined #webapps 09:31:47 plinss_ has joined #webapps 11:56:39 msw_ has joined #webapps 12:33:02 christianliebel has joined #webapps 12:47:45 I wish agendas wouldn't link to non-open Google docs 12:48:46 garykac: is raw clipboard stuff in https://github.com/w3c/editing/blob/gh-pages/TPAC/2019/Agenda.md perhaps something you have access to? 13:25:18 msw_ has joined #webapps 13:38:10 aarongu has joined #webapps 14:03:52 smaug: I pinged the author to make it publi 14:04:06 thanks 14:05:32 smaug: should be fixed