19:44:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
19:44:02 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-irc
19:44:12 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
19:44:18 <PWinstanley> chair: PWinstanley
19:44:48 <PWinstanley> regrets+ Annette; DaveBrowning (likely), Alejandra, Dave Raggett
19:44:55 <PWinstanley> meeting: DXWG Plenary
19:45:21 <PWinstanley> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2019.09.03
19:45:42 <PWinstanley> present+
19:45:43 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
19:45:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
19:57:08 <TomB> TomB has joined #dxwg
19:59:16 <kcoyle> kcoyle has joined #dxwg
20:01:03 <TomB> present+ TomB
20:03:22 <ncar> ncar has joined #dxwg
20:03:45 <ncar> present+
20:05:18 <antoine> antoine has joined #dxwg
20:05:32 <antoine> present+ antoine
20:05:39 <antoine> rrsagent, please draft minutes
20:05:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
20:05:45 <antoine> scribenick: antoine
20:05:49 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwg
20:05:53 <kcoyle> present+
20:05:54 <AndreaPerego> present+
20:06:46 <TomB> q+
20:06:46 <kcoyle> q+
20:06:48 <antoine> Topic: admin
20:06:56 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2019/08/27-dxwg-minutes
20:07:02 <antoine> proposal: to accept minutes of last meeting
20:07:17 <PWinstanley> ack TomB
20:07:45 <antoine> antoine has joined #dxwg
20:07:53 <antoine> TomB: topic 4 should be topic 5
20:08:19 <PWinstanley> ack kcoyle
20:08:25 <antoine> ... I've typed the wrong topic. Topic 4 should be deleted/merged with next topic
20:09:11 <Makx> Makx has joined #dxwg
20:09:14 <antoine> +1
20:09:17 <AndreaPerego> 0 (was not there)
20:09:18 <PWinstanley> 0 - not there
20:09:18 <ncar> +1
20:09:20 <TomB> +1
20:09:36 <Makx> present+ Makx
20:09:47 <Makx> 0 - not there
20:09:49 <antoine> resolved: to accept the minutes of last week
20:10:10 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:10:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:10:18 <antoine> Topic: Review of deadlines
20:10:23 <kcoyle> q-
20:11:14 <antoine> PWinstanley: kcoyle will you put something on the main page of the wiki?
20:11:19 <antoine> kcoyle: I'm working on it
20:11:40 <antoine> ... we need something to present versions to the group and group decisions
20:12:14 <antoine> ... the date for final move to DCAT CR was in Oct I think
20:12:43 <antoine> ... there are some deadlines mid-September (I think) for making decisions on Conneg and PROF
20:13:04 <antoine> Action: kcoyle to put a table of deadlines on wiki
20:13:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-363 - Put a table of deadlines on wiki [on Karen Coyle - due 2019-09-10].
20:13:34 <RiccardoAlbertoni> RiccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwg
20:13:42 <antoine> Topic: DCAT update
20:13:49 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:13:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:14:07 <RiccardoAlbertoni> present+
20:14:16 <antoine> PWinstanley: for DCAT there have not been meetings on the past two weeks.
20:14:26 <RiccardoAlbertoni> yes we have a meeting tomorrow
20:15:00 <antoine> PWinstanley: I expect tomorrow's meeting will discuss deadlines we've just mentioned.
20:15:09 <AndreaPerego> Not from my side.
20:15:27 <antoine> Topic: Conneg update
20:15:29 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:15:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:15:30 <ncar> Conneg is 3PWD candidate: https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/conneg-by-ap/
20:16:00 <antoine> ncar: I've got access to github now and could merge the PRs
20:16:16 <antoine> ... we're meeting tomorrow
20:16:39 <AndreaPerego> Just to note respec reports errors/warnings.
20:17:09 <antoine> PWinstanley, ncar: we need to coordinate on a poll for 3PWD
20:17:16 <ncar> Yes, we know! A link we expect to fix
20:17:21 <PWinstanley> ack kcoyle
20:17:44 <antoine> kcoyle: there is a discussion about including tokens in Conneg
20:17:54 <antoine> ... how would a decision on this affect the timetable?
20:18:13 <antoine> ncar: like anything, if there's a serious case for change
20:18:25 <antoine> ... there is a whole section there, motivated by use case
20:18:38 <antoine> ... there is a discussion on whether these cases are important
20:18:52 <antoine> ... the question is the positioning of the IETF about this.
20:19:16 <antoine> ... it could be about not disallowing tokens.
20:19:35 <antoine> kcoyle: we need a drop-dead date for making a decision on this, for passing to next WD
20:19:54 <AndreaPerego> Or mark it as a feature at risk?
20:20:19 <antoine> PWinstanley: we've got experience about marking features at risk in DCAT
20:21:08 <antoine> ... this could allows to avoid the full circle of validations
20:21:31 <antoine> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:21:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
20:21:44 <AndreaPerego> Yes, this is what I meant.
20:21:50 <antoine> rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:21:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
20:22:51 <plh> plh has joined #dxwg
20:23:34 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/wiki/Steps-to-Recommendation-2019
20:23:38 <antoine> plh: drop-dead dates are on the wiki page
20:24:37 <antoine> ... features at risk is features that can be removed, or made informative, without affecting the structure of the rec
20:24:56 <antoine> ... this allows experimenting with the feature until the end of the CR
20:25:19 <antoine> without this, if you want to remove the feature you have to create a new CR and wait for 60 days for doing so.
20:25:26 <kcoyle> kcoyle has joined #dxwg
20:25:52 <antoine> ... usually the price is feelings. But in doubt, it's wiser to declare features at risk.
20:26:05 <antoine> s/feelings/possible hurt feelings/
20:26:26 <antoine> s/structure of the spec/consistency of the spec/
20:26:39 <antoine> rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:26:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
20:28:47 <antoine> Topic: Pull requests and closing of issues
20:29:24 <antoine> PWinstanley: the past process (based on informative flagging) was not satisfactory
20:29:48 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:30:00 <antoine> ... some issues were re-opened because there was no clear evidence that the issue was resolved
20:30:14 <antoine> ... I'd like a formalized procedure for closing issues
20:30:32 <AndreaPerego> q-
20:30:45 <antoine> ... We have a table each week, and the opportunity for the plenary to make a formal statement that the issues can be closed.
20:30:53 <plh> q+
20:30:59 <antoine> q+
20:30:59 <PWinstanley> ack plh
20:31:16 <antoine> plh: you're running out of time
20:31:43 <antoine> ... you're supposed to make a decision on moving to CR in two weeks
20:32:02 <antoine> ... are you suggesting to go through all these issues?
20:32:21 <antoine> PWinstanley: no, what we want to avoid enthusiastic closing of issues
20:32:25 <TomB> q+ to ask who is responsible for tracking issues
20:32:31 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
20:32:38 <RiccardoAlbertoni> q+
20:32:50 <PWinstanley> antoine: I'm not sure what you're suggesting?
20:33:43 <ncar> q+
20:33:45 <antoine> ... we want to give people an opportunity to jump in
20:33:54 <plh> q+
20:34:00 <PWinstanley> ack TomB
20:34:00 <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask who is responsible for tracking issues
20:34:05 <antoine> Antoine: what precisely will happen?
20:34:19 <antoine> PWinstanley: we would discuss issues in plenary
20:35:08 <antoine> TomB: the list is overwhelming
20:35:35 <antoine> ... the deadline is next Friday (the 13th?) and some of the issues have been opened for one year
20:35:54 <antoine> ... Whose responsibility is it to track this?
20:36:02 <PWinstanley> q?
20:36:13 <antoine> ... Should responders track the issues that correspond to their feedback?
20:36:40 <ncar> Which issue Tom?
20:37:10 <RiccardoAlbertoni> q-
20:37:20 <antoine> ... I was involved in an issue and it's not clear why it would be closed
20:37:22 <antoine> q+
20:37:24 <PWinstanley> ack ncar
20:38:21 <antoine> ncar: now I'm replying to people, detailing what has been done and this happens every week.
20:38:49 <antoine> ... all issues were re-opened
20:39:57 <antoine> PWinstanley: it's not you ncar . there needs to be a ping-pong
20:40:29 <antoine> ... we need to sort things out.
20:40:47 <PWinstanley> q?
20:40:56 <antoine> ncar: we try to do this every week.
20:41:17 <antoine> plh: can we get into the specifics?
20:42:28 <TomB> q+ to point out https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2019Feb/0001.html
20:42:53 <PWinstanley> ack plh
20:42:58 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
20:43:34 <ncar> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/698
20:44:11 <antoine> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/402
20:44:20 <PWinstanley> antoine: My approach is that I've seen and contributed to this list of issues and there is an issue proposed for closing, if I have an objection or make a minor comment then this is OK,
20:44:41 <antoine> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/467
20:46:00 <PWinstanley> ... It is completely OK for people to look at these issues and make comments - this doesn't need to have plenary activity, it can be done bilaterally between the author and the person raising the issue
20:46:54 <PWinstanley> plh: Can I suggest that use of thumbs up icons will help show that the proposal is agreeable
20:47:21 <RiccardoAlbertoni> +1 to antoine ( asking for objections is enough in my opinion)
20:47:59 <antoine> q+
20:48:04 <ncar> +1 to antoine
20:48:12 <PWinstanley> ack TomB
20:48:12 <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to point out https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2019Feb/0001.html
20:48:19 <ncar> +1 to thumps up
20:50:16 <antoine> TomB: I understand the process is stressful
20:50:40 <antoine> ... is it the responsibility of commenters to keep track of whether their comments have been answered?
20:51:03 <antoine> plh: from a W3C process we expect answers to comments
20:51:43 <antoine> TomB: if the comments are made on the public list, shouldn't the answer go there?
20:51:55 <antoine> plh: it could be on github, or on the list
20:52:25 <antoine> ncar: I saw the email, I don't think it has gone through issues
20:52:32 <antoine> ... I would still like to do this
20:52:46 <antoine> ... and answer both on the list and github
20:52:58 <antoine> ... I've done this today for 3 commenters
20:53:15 <antoine> ... I haven't got to TomB's one yet
20:53:31 <antoine> q+
20:53:36 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
20:54:13 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:54:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:54:23 <PWinstanley> antoine: I've several points:   - I've seen public comments and answers and this is what TomB  was thinking about, it is the right direction
20:55:21 <PWinstanley> ... - the process of creating issues is important.  The public comment list is not so crowded and it is easy to identify emails that haven't been commented, so we can clear these up quite quickly
20:55:25 <TomB> q+ to ask whether today's comments to https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/792 will be turned into an issue (as an example)
20:56:44 <PWinstanley> ...  The issues that have been closed - I've been working with Nick to make the list.  It is not intended for closing really hard issues, but for the simple cases.  We don't want to have unresolved questions, just to have some good housekeeping
20:56:48 <PWinstanley> ack TomB
20:56:48 <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask whether today's comments to https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/792 will be turned into an issue (as an example)
20:57:33 <antoine> TomB: there is a comment today in https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/792
20:57:54 <antoine> ... issues about the design of the spec
20:58:00 <PWinstanley> q+ PWinstanley
20:58:06 <antoine> ... issues can be used to explained the rationale
20:58:19 <antoine> ... it's hard to see the fundamental issues
20:58:43 <antoine> q+
20:58:52 <antoine> ... they're getting snowed under
20:58:54 <plh> q+
20:59:56 <PWinstanley> ack PWinstanley
21:00:38 <antoine> PWinstanley: for DCAT we decided to shelve issues for the next version
21:01:07 <antoine> ... we could this, ensure we've got documentation and point to the fact that a subsequent team would update
21:01:16 <antoine> ... plh would this idea of backlog work?
21:01:43 <antoine> plh: it could, assuming that the issues can be fixed.
21:02:08 <antoine> PWinstanley: there were fundamental issues on DCAT like versioning, that we left
21:02:25 <antoine> plh: the editors need to triage
21:02:28 <PWinstanley> q?
21:03:14 <antoine> plh: we cannot change the architecture between v1 and v2.
21:03:24 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
21:04:19 <PWinstanley> antoine: I was at the call discussing this process previously, and getting issues on the list was part of the triage, to remove the small items and raise the profile of the larger issues
21:04:24 <PWinstanley> ack plh
21:05:06 <antoine> plh: I understand that TomB and ncar are stressed, but a decision needs to be made in two weeks
21:05:24 <antoine> ... if we don't have the time, we don't have the time
21:06:10 <TomB> q+ to say that WG Note is a perfectly good outcome
21:06:16 <antoine> TomB: this is too much work
21:06:40 <antoine> PWinstanley: yes but we need to try, give each other feedback
21:06:54 <antoine> rrsagent, create minutes v2
21:06:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
21:07:33 <antoine> TomB: I think a WG Note would be a good outcome
21:07:52 <antoine> PWinstanley: if we miss the drop-dead dates we'll move from CR to Note
21:08:31 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
21:08:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
21:08:35 <antoine> plh: and the priority is to update DCAT
21:08:38 <RiccardoAlbertoni> Thank you, Bye !
21:08:39 <antoine> rrsagent, create minutes v2
21:08:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-dxwg-minutes.html antoine
21:08:50 <Makx> bye