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15:50:03 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:50:03 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Working Group Telco
15:50:03 <ivan> Chair: wendy
15:50:03 <ivan> Date: 2019-08-26
15:50:03 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2019Aug/0061.html
15:50:03 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-08-26: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publ-wg/2019Aug/0061.html
15:50:04 <ivan> Regrets+ tzviya, mattg, nellie, rkwright, geoff, rachel, mateus
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16:02:57 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Lets get started!
16:03:11 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-08-19-pwg
16:03:25 <NickRuffilo> ... approval of minutes from last week.  No comments - minutes approved
16:03:34 <ivan> resolved: last week's minutes approved
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16:04:03 <ivan> topic: horizontal reviews
16:04:14 <NickRuffilo> ... Main topic to discuss today: as TPAC approaches, the main topics is prepping Audiobooks and manifest for CR.  Before that we want to do horizontal reviews.  Ivan has completed internationalization for pub manifest which extends to audiobooks
16:04:24 <romain> present+
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16:04:49 <NickRuffilo> ... however we do need to do the security review, privacy review, and now that we've changed the documents it's worth re-doing the accessibility review.  When we met at the face to face, we designated people to do it.
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16:05:09 <garth> present+ Garth
16:05:17 <NickRuffilo> ... Brady, benjamin, Tim, and possibly Deborah?  We do need to actually do this.  It took Ivan a couple of hours, and security review is no different.  I'm hoping we can get commitments today to do that.
16:05:18 <duga> present+
16:05:23 <duga> present-
16:05:30 <NickRuffilo> ... the trick to committing is that it needs to be done this week - or by our next meeting.
16:05:43 <ivan> present+ duga
16:05:50 <NickRuffilo> Brady: I'm not here... (looks around ominously) Before Friday?
16:06:01 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: How about before next friday - as next week we may not be meeting...
16:06:07 <NickRuffilo> Brady: Is this for audiobooks?
16:06:13 <ivan> q+
16:06:21 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Audiobooks and publication manifest.  Will you commit to the security review?
16:06:29 <NickRuffilo> Brady: I will do the thing I signed up for.
16:06:29 <wendyreid> ack ivan
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16:06:46 <wendyreid> https://w3ctag.github.io/security-questionnaire/
16:06:50 <laurent> present+ laurent
16:06:56 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: The big test you'll have to go through is security and privacy.
16:07:09 <NickRuffilo> ... It does say Security and Privacy in the URL...
16:07:31 <ivan> s/URL/title/
16:07:36 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Since it is 2, Brady, would you like some assistance?
16:07:51 <NickRuffilo> Brady: It would be helpful to have 2 sets of eyes on this.  It would be better to have more than just me.
16:08:07 <ivan> q+
16:08:19 <NickRuffilo> Deborah: I vaguely remember to be part of this.  I remember saying "I have no expertise, but I have eyes"  I am no more expert than any other security concerned person.
16:08:23 <NickRuffilo> Brady: I'm in the same boat.
16:08:31 <NickRuffilo> Deborah: I'll do it with you then.
16:08:34 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:09:18 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: I tried to be helpful, but these tests are very big - they address a wide range of recommendations.  We are in a position where we are - most of the issues that are there are irrelevant.  For internationalization one, it was certainly the case that most of the questions were irrelevant.
16:10:05 <NickRuffilo> ... they were talking about markups or user fillable forms.  The internationalization - it was a 2 level form.  There were lots of questions where if you answer no, you don't have to fill in more data.  For most of your questions, it will be similar.
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16:10:16 <NickRuffilo> ... I promise it won't be as awful as it looks like.
16:10:52 <Avneesh> q+
16:10:54 <Avneesh> https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues/13
16:10:58 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Internationalization, Security & Privacy, then we have Accessibility.  Avneesh...
16:10:59 <wendyreid> ack Avneesh
16:11:39 <ivan> q+
16:11:50 <NickRuffilo> Avneesh: I have gone through the draft today (latest) and I was pleased to see the info under the accessibility heading - I opneed up a minor issue.  I just want to know when the editors draft will be published, so I can start discussing the details with the accessibility group.
16:12:25 <NickRuffilo> ... This will be discussed at TPAC in a joint session.  I'm comfortable with it.  Once this one issue is resolved and we have the official public draft, it'll be good to have the public data.
16:12:26 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:13:07 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: The publication manifest will become a first public working draft tomorrow.  It will be out tomorrow.  Once that's out, Matt, Wendy or I will publish the Audiobook as a new draft.  We do it later to ensure all the cross references.
16:13:23 <NickRuffilo> ... by tomorrow evening - my time - both documents will be official drafts, and you can use them as you need.
16:13:43 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: to add to that, the issue you filed, it's a simple one to solve.  I'll make that change so it's in the latest draft since it's such an easy one to check off
16:14:10 <NickRuffilo> ... Ivan, have I covered all the horizontal review?
16:14:49 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: I had an earlier meeting with the TAG and that is all covered.  One thing that is important is the APA review, and the work that brady and Deborah will do - it needs to be very well documented.
16:15:37 <NickRuffilo> ... and at least be public in having us signing off - which I did for internationalization.  When we ask for authorization to go to CR, we have to prove that we've done what has been requested.  We are a little late, and we should have done this 2 months ago, but we can always ask forgiveness...
16:16:21 <ivan> Topic: remaining issues in audio and lpf
16:16:50 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: The next thing was to quickly make sure we've covered up any additional issues with LPF - Hadrien opened up an issue regarding a minor point of metadata, should we have a field for abridged/unabridged, and "does this contain adult content"
16:17:20 <NickRuffilo> ... I'll write a PR for in the publication manifest, as they are both valid information for audiobooks or publications in general.  Another is a mention of preview, which is already in manifest, but I'll make a point of saying it's included in audiobooks as well.
16:17:43 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/audiobooks/issues/12
16:18:22 <ivan> q+
16:18:26 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:18:30 <NickRuffilo> ... Preview, abridged, and 'contains explicit material'.  Outside of Avneesh's issue, this is the last to address before the next draft.
16:18:37 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: These will be added to publication manifest?
16:18:44 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Yes.  The preview stuff is already in there.
16:18:59 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: Are we sure those terms don't exist somewhere else?
16:19:08 <NickRuffilo> ... are they in schema.org?
16:19:18 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: They do exist in schema.org - so those are the ones we need to use.
16:19:27 <NickRuffilo> ... we need to call them out as ones important to publications.
16:20:16 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: One practical thing, I know that Matt (who is out today), He has made a pretty big rewrite and I presume he'll do a PR today or tomorrow.  It may be worth waiting for that to get throught and done as those issues have already been accepted.
16:20:21 <NickRuffilo> ... otherwise we get into merge problems.
16:20:25 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: I'll wait for that
16:20:46 <NickRuffilo> ... Laurent - meant to reach out, do you have more issues?
16:20:52 <laurent> https://github.com/w3c/lpf/pull/1
16:21:34 <NickRuffilo> Laurent: I have 2 tiny issues for LPF.  One is in pull request 1, it was a wording matter speaking about path in archives where the publication manifest is talking about URL strings.  I prefer the renaming the notion of path in URL strings to be consistent with publication manifest.
16:21:37 <garth> q+
16:21:45 <NickRuffilo> ... I can merge as soon as we agree.  I see Ivan and Luc seems to be OK with that.
16:21:51 <wendyreid> ack garth
16:22:05 <NickRuffilo> Garth: I was going back to issue 12 - so finish the conversation on the Merge first...
16:22:18 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Does anyone have concerns with that PR?
16:22:34 <laurent> https://github.com/w3c/lpf/issues/2
16:22:55 <NickRuffilo> Laurent: The other issue I haven't created a PR yet.  It's only that we still make reference to the web pub manifest, and I have to redirect the reference to the publication - so it's an editorial.
16:23:09 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: As someone who just did that 2 weeks ago, it's a bit of a pain, but not too bad.
16:23:26 <NickRuffilo> Laurent: Everything else is ok.  If you can read it before we publish it as well, that would be good.
16:23:43 <NickRuffilo> Laurent: If the people in the group can review - I think this is the final state.
16:23:51 <garth> q?
16:23:56 <garth> q+
16:23:59 <garth> ack garth
16:24:45 <NickRuffilo> Garth: I just wanted to reflect, the other issue that Hadrien raised in #12 - the HTML TOC, as we discussed historically and recently, we do not want to reopen this at this time.  His point is that it didn't map well to audio-injest platforms.  The discussion we had previously..
16:25:23 <NickRuffilo> ... was that most support epub, and this is a relic of that, so we want to stay with that HTML agreement, and if this crops up as an implementation issue, it can be re-evaluated, but at the time, we had some producer input as well that got on board with this.
16:25:36 <NickRuffilo> ... we are in OK shape until we're at the implementation stage.  If we're wrong there, we can reopen
16:26:06 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Any other questions about Audiobook or LPF work?
16:26:40 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q8PUjzMY04peuYZdTkA6A0BBoFea_BSK4ygJlphkzh8/edit#
16:26:56 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: Last thing on the agenda - the agenda for TPAC.  There were no further additions to the list of agenda items.
16:27:11 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: I had a proposal in #39
16:27:31 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues/39
16:27:32 <ivan> -> https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues/39#issuecomment-524611246 proposal to resolve #39
16:28:58 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: This has come up with the internationalization.  There are 2 issues with the language.  One is that we do set the language of the manifest - what we say is that the language setting we have is for the textual entries of the manifest and the publication as a whole...
16:29:46 <NickRuffilo> ... so we are conflating 2 different things.  IN many cases, those two langauges are the same, but I can imagine publishers publishing a language book, which has one or more languages inside and on the other hand, the metadata is in a different language.
16:30:30 <NickRuffilo> ... this conflation is too narrow in some cases - and that's the kind of question I saw there.  I came up with a proposal for simple cases its' fine, but we introduce a new term - publication language - which could be an array/list of languages
16:31:09 <NickRuffilo> ... these can be different in what we set for the manifest.  If the propery is not used, it's the same as the manifest, but we leave the door open for additional terms.  That's my proposal
16:31:47 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: OK - does anyone have questions or comments?
16:32:00 <laurent> q+
16:32:04 <wendyreid> ack laurent
16:32:46 <NickRuffilo> Laurent: I answered already that I agree.  It seems the most robust solution, but in the wording, lets be careful that the languages are set - the implementors must know what is the primary language of the content showing to the user.  It should be pub language.
16:33:07 <NickRuffilo> ... I think that the best solution is that if pub language exists, that's the primary.
16:33:45 <ivan> Proposed: create a PR along the lines of https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues/39#issuecomment-524611246 and this would close issue #39
16:34:03 <ivan> github-bot, bye
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16:34:28 <garth> +1
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16:35:51 <ivan> resolved: create a PR along the lines of https://github.com/w3c/pub-manifest/issues/39#issuecomment-524611246 and this would close issue #39
16:36:33 <NickRuffilo> Dave: I've just suffered too much from these discussions with epub - the language of the publication and the metadata, and what if they don't match...  Leaving as much to the content is a good thing - just makes me nervous...
16:37:02 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q8PUjzMY04peuYZdTkA6A0BBoFea_BSK4ygJlphkzh8/edit#
16:37:12 <ivan> topic: TPAC agenda
16:37:43 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: TPAC agenda - I'm working on a rough agenda.  You'll see it fill out more this week.  If you're going to be there, please RSVP for dinner so we can figure that out.  We'll flesh out the schedule more this week, so keep an eye out there.
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16:38:09 <NickRuffilo> Wendy: I believe that is everything for today - unless anyone has other matters they want to talk about.
16:38:40 <Avneesh> How much time to polish for working draft after TPAC?
16:39:25 <garth> q?
16:39:33 <ivan> q+
16:39:38 <wendyreid> ack ivan
16:40:15 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: the end of the charter is July - so we have to finish all the testing, which is part of the CR - sometime in may.  The question is how much time we'll need for testing...
16:40:22 <NickRuffilo> ... how we will do testing and what's our plan
16:40:42 <NickRuffilo> ... and then we will have a very hard deadline to get the documents out after TPAC.  I would hope to get them out 1-2 weeks after TPAC...
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16:41:18 <George> vBYE
16:41:18 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:41:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/08/26-pwg-minutes.html ivan
16:41:18 <ivan> zakim, bye
16:41:18 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:41:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:41:18 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been wendyreid, gpellegrino, dauwhe, Teenya, ivan, dkaplan, NickRuffilo, Avneesh, George, Bill_Kasdorf, CharlesL, romain, Garth, duga,
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