16:01:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbg
16:01:02 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/07/16-pbg-irc
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16:01:38 <tzviya> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Weekly Call
16:01:38 <laudrain> I don’t know the setup commands, sorry
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16:01:45 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbg
16:01:46 <liisamk> present+
16:01:48 <tzviya> Date: 2019-07-16
16:01:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:02:00 <tzviya> Chair: Luc
16:02:25 <tzviya> present+
16:02:27 <dauwhe> Luc: documentation on starting meetings: https://github.com/w3c/publ-bg/wiki/Using-IRC-for-Meetings
16:02:29 <Karen> present+
16:02:41 <dauwhe> present+
16:02:49 <laudrain> present+
16:02:54 <wendyreid> present+
16:03:18 <Rachel> present+
16:03:32 <Karen> scribenick: Karen
16:03:59 <garth> garth has joined #pbg
16:04:04 <garth> present+ Garth
16:04:08 <mateus> mateus has joined #pbg
16:04:16 <Avneesh> present+
16:04:21 <mateus> present+
16:04:36 <Karen> Luc: we had a few regrets for today
16:05:01 <Julie_Blair> Julie_Blair has joined #pbg
16:05:03 <Karen> Luc: we sent out an agenda
16:05:06 <tzviya> regrets+ ivan
16:05:09 <Karen> ...a bit late, so sorry for that
16:05:20 <Julie_Blair> present +
16:05:27 <Karen> Luc: We have information updates
16:05:32 <mateus_> mateus_ has joined #pbg
16:05:38 <Karen> Topic: Vote in PBG about Avneesh to be member of Steering Committee
16:05:46 <Karen> Luc: Lissa, you launched the vote
16:05:51 <Karen> ...you received only +1
16:06:01 <Karen> Liisa: yes, we received only plus ones
16:06:16 <Avneesh> Thank you to all
16:06:25 <Karen> Luc: So we can resolve that Avneesh is a member of the Publishing Steering Committee
16:06:41 <Karen> Topic: Publishing F2F meeting at TPAC
16:06:47 <Karen> ...Daihei, where are we on the agenda?
16:06:57 <Karen> Daihei: The proposed agenda is sorted out lightly
16:07:47 <Karen> *EPUB3.2
16:07:51 <Karen> *@
16:07:53 <Karen> *@
16:07:58 <Karen> *@
16:08:06 <Karen> ...and gaming to be discussed in Japanese and English
16:08:12 <Karen> ...I will send out the program committee members
16:08:19 <Karen> ...tomorrow to ask for meeting next week
16:08:25 <Rachel> q+
16:08:26 <Karen> ...and then we will discuss further and report back to you
16:08:48 <Karen> ...for logistics, I have requested from W3C, and Naomi Yoshizowa
16:09:02 <laudrain> q?
16:09:06 <Karen> ...to prepare for simulataneous translations from Japanese to English and English to Japanese
16:09:14 <tzviya> q+
16:09:17 <Karen> ...the meeting will be Thursday, 9:00am to 12:00pm; it's on track
16:09:26 <Karen> Luc: i understand there will be a PC call next week
16:09:27 <laudrain> ack Rachel
16:09:29 <Karen> ack Rachel
16:09:43 <Karen> Rachel: Is the draft agenda available for the PBG SC to review and comment on?
16:09:55 <Karen> Luc: Probably not yet; we will have to work on the draft
16:10:00 <Karen> ...but we will share once it's ready
16:10:00 <laudrain> q?
16:10:05 <Karen> ack Tzviya
16:10:05 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:10:12 <Karen> Tzviya: I was wondering on two areas of focus
16:10:20 <Karen> ...Accessibility and Gaming
16:10:28 <Karen> ...is this of interest to the rest of the W3C?
16:10:41 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/2018/12/games-workshop/
16:10:43 <Karen> ...especially Accessibility, very broadly of interest to W3C
16:10:56 <Karen> ...and Gaming likely broader interest as well. There was recently a Workshop on Web Games
16:11:03 <Karen> Daihei: regarding Gaming
16:11:14 <Karen> ...as it relates to Web Publications
16:11:27 <Karen> ...might be enough of new perspectives to put into discussion
16:11:43 <Karen> ...in Japan, some Japanese entertainment companies are providers, such as Anime
16:11:50 <Karen> ...this is still a proposed agenda to be discussed by the PC
16:11:58 <Karen> ...and then after we will finalize with you
16:12:09 <Karen> ...there is interest to have non-traditional publishing people
16:12:12 <Karen> ...that is where that is
16:12:18 <laudrain> q?
16:12:27 <Karen> ...I mentioned probably other people could be invited into the discussion
16:12:47 <Karen> ...also I will ask Makoto to coordinate with Daisy Japan to participate
16:12:52 <Karen> ...to have a global point of view
16:12:57 <Karen> ...also Accessibility issue
16:13:05 <Karen> ...to discuss Japanese people's interests
16:13:08 <wendyreid> q+
16:13:11 <Karen> Luc: Thank you, Daihei
16:13:21 <Karen> Topic: EPUB3 CG Resolution
16:13:24 <Karen> ack Wendy
16:13:25 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:13:32 <Karen> Wendy: I have a quick question
16:13:35 <Karen> ...about meeting in Japan
16:13:41 <Karen> ...I hear about Gaming
16:13:50 <Karen> ...but also wondered about the chapterization of books
16:14:07 <Karen> ...our Rakuten colleagues say Japanese offer a service chapter by chapter
16:14:10 <Karen> ...and you see ads
16:14:24 <Karen> ...I think it's something quite pertinent to what we are doing; wonder if we would see something there?
16:14:30 <Karen> Daihei: yes, this could be interesting
16:14:43 <Karen> ...the chapter by chapter has been an established practice, especially for Manga
16:14:53 <Karen> ...several ways to provide and review content
16:14:57 <Karen> ...readership increaded
16:15:02 <Karen> ...with chapter reading
16:15:11 <Karen> ...and large audiences help to secure the advertising income
16:15:19 <Karen> ...I will share that topic with the program committee
16:15:27 <Karen> ...Speaking of new business model on ebooks in Japan
16:15:33 <Karen> ...there are several others outside of Manga
16:15:38 <Karen> ...the business case, or business model
16:15:48 <Karen> ...that we should bring into a publication discussion
16:15:53 <Karen> ...we will discuss in PC and report back
16:15:58 <Karen> Wendy: Sounds good, thank you
16:16:02 <Karen> Luc: Thank you, Daihei
16:16:04 <Karen> ...more comments?
16:16:18 <Karen> Tzviya: If we can master that, that would be huge; not just for Manga
16:16:22 <Karen> Luc: thank you, Tzviya
16:16:45 <Karen> ...Dave, may I ask you if you can inform us about the last EPUB3 CG meeting; the resolution to downgrade this issue for navitation from error to @
16:16:50 <Karen> David: You did a good summary
16:17:11 <tzviya> s/@/warning
16:17:22 <Karen> ...faced with feedback, we advised EPUBCheck to change the error to a warning for when the order of links in the primary navigation file does not match the spine order
16:17:28 <Karen> ...we don't know enough to make a change at that point
16:17:43 <laudrain> q+
16:17:52 <Karen> ...not completely sure how much reading systems are using the doc structure exposed in the nav file
16:18:05 <Karen> ...plan to build some test books with nav out of order and see what impact that has on reading systems
16:18:07 <Karen> ack Luc
16:18:10 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:18:14 <Rachel> q+
16:18:14 <Karen> Luc: part of resolution was to work on it
16:18:24 <Karen> ...on the question of modifying or how to modify EPUB3.2 spec for the future
16:18:30 <Karen> ...after the test that Dave mentioned
16:18:37 <Karen> ...I am also aware that EPUBCheck is being modified these days
16:18:45 <Karen> ...and should be available in a new release this week
16:18:51 <Karen> ...that brings this error to warning
16:18:58 <Karen> ...will be settled for the Japanese market
16:19:03 <Karen> ...it will be an infomessage
16:19:11 <Karen> ...that clearly says it may change in the future
16:19:17 <laudrain> q?
16:19:22 <Karen> ...after further discussions about the specification
16:19:24 <Karen> ack Rachel
16:19:32 <Karen> Rachel: Just speaking about these maintenance updates
16:19:45 <Karen> ...do we have any updates on the funding of EPUBCheck? And the current state of fundraising?
16:19:56 <Karen> Luc: We are still able to finance the current development until the end of this year
16:20:05 <Karen> ...We had a management call with Daisy Consortium last week
16:20:16 <Karen> ...but there is a need for an additional $51KUSD to complete the plan
16:20:19 <Karen> ...we plan to relaunch
16:20:27 <Karen> ...a fundraising call at the end of summer
16:20:50 <Karen> ...like September based on clear tasks that will be accomplished in the next six months or next year, 2020
16:21:07 <Karen> ...The tasks will be listed in a friendly document, not too technical
16:21:14 <Karen> ...and ask for funding for the additional $50K
16:21:21 <Karen> ...that is the plan. Anyone can contribute right now
16:21:25 <Karen> Rachel: Thank you
16:21:37 <Karen> Luc: Before we have this discussion about objectives
16:21:45 <Karen> ...we propose to cancel the calls on 23 and 30 July
16:21:50 <Karen> ...to have a small break for summer
16:21:54 <Karen> ...and reconvene in August
16:22:01 <Karen> ...I know the PubWG is also having a break
16:22:07 <Karen> ...thank you for PubWG members being here today
16:22:22 <Karen> Garth: specifically, what meetings will be cancelled?
16:22:42 <Karen> Luc: The next one is Asian friendly time on next Tuesday, 23rd/Wednesday Japan
16:22:50 <Karen> ...next one is European friendly on Tuesday, 30th
16:22:57 <Karen> Garth: I have cancelled both of those now
16:23:06 <Karen> Luc: thank you, Garth; always so efficient
16:23:20 <Karen> ...there is a meeting next week, remote, on the Publishing strategy and W3C
16:23:31 <Karen> ...the PubSC has invited Avneesh to come and be a member
16:23:35 <Karen> ...there were many +1s
16:23:43 <Karen> ...we discussed for plans for strategy for 2020
16:23:51 <Karen> ...Avneesh had useful comments
16:24:01 <Karen> ...without objectives it is difficult to plan for strategies
16:24:10 <Karen> ...as co-chairs we have prepared a list of objectives
16:24:21 <Karen> ...which we discussed around some kind of model
16:24:29 <Karen> s/model/moto
16:24:37 <Karen> ...idea to put objectives
16:24:43 <Karen> ...a list of five bullet points in the agenda
16:24:49 <Karen> ...what we could call objectives
16:24:56 <Karen> ...what we expect Pub at W3C to do
16:25:01 <Karen> ...for the publishing community
16:25:14 <Karen> ...these five bullets are about existing standards like EPUB that are operational today
16:25:25 <Karen> ...we rely on EPUB3 already
16:25:38 <Karen> ...that was a big achievement from EPUB3 CG and the EPUBCHeck being modified
16:25:47 <Karen> ...by the PubBG, and development of this new release
16:25:59 <Karen> ...So this is first real objective, to maintain EPUB3 and EPUBCHeck
16:26:09 <Karen> ...Let me present all the points before taking quesitons
16:26:28 <Karen> ...Second one is Publications on the web
16:26:39 <Karen> ...We have a place to think about Web Publications
16:26:44 <Karen> ...two years in the WG, a huge effort
16:26:53 <Karen> ...expect a deliverable in the first semester of 2020
16:26:58 <Karen> ...Web Publication for Audio Books
16:27:15 <Karen> ...other discussions in this area that would bring specializations, depending upon needs of industry
16:27:25 <Karen> ...what is not clear is what the PubWG will do after the publication of Audio Books
16:27:38 <Karen> ...One objective is to identify needs from the publishing industry for publishing on the web
16:27:49 <Karen> ...on higher level, we think different kind of books may have different needs
16:28:01 <Karen> ...and something could help to define the needs of the publishing industry
16:28:06 <Karen> ...and to collect needs by sectors
16:28:16 <Bill_Kasdorf> I would suggest changing "books" to "publications"
16:28:22 <Karen> ...we had this idea that STEM would need web publications; but we have not seen this result today
16:28:33 <Karen> ...PubBG would be place to identify needs of the whole industry
16:28:52 <Karen> ...also identify needs...what we do in publishing with web tech needs to be improved, rendering content
16:28:59 <Karen> ...rendering content on web with web tech we have issues
16:29:17 <Karen> ...there we have understood that CSS is place we should contribute to fulfill this objective
16:29:27 <Karen> ...there are some difficulties because we need resources to contribute here
16:29:41 <Karen> ...thanks to some of you, like Dave, there are huge efforts
16:29:52 <Karen> ...We can also expect new features could be incubated and tried
16:29:59 <Karen> ...between web people and publishing industry
16:30:06 <Karen> ...where we have a new PubCG in place
16:30:13 <Karen> ...they started recently
16:30:26 <Karen> ...and the visual narratives CG
16:30:33 <Karen> ...to bring new narrations to the web
16:30:43 <Karen> ...places where these [ideas] can be incubated
16:30:46 <laudrain> q?
16:30:55 <tzviya> q+
16:30:55 <Karen> ...these are the five areas of the bullet points. Now invite your comments
16:30:58 <Karen> ack Tzviya
16:30:59 <dauwhe> q+
16:31:00 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to the five bullets and their sub-bullets. Great work from the chairs!
16:31:06 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:31:08 <Karen> Tzviya: I just want to say first of all
16:31:16 <Karen> ...the objectives here are just a draft and we do need feedback
16:31:25 <Karen> ...I had envisioned the objectives being a bit broader
16:31:35 <Karen> ...In some ways, this reminds me of the charters we already have
16:31:45 <Karen> ...so the current charters may have not worked out as well as we hoped
16:31:57 <Karen> ...we have had issues getting feedback from all the sectors we need
16:32:10 <Karen> ...would be nice to get feedback from scholarly community, but our approach to date has not worked
16:32:22 <Karen> ...our needs are not reflected yet
16:32:34 <Karen> ...The objective should be to assess the needs and do a gap analysis
16:32:40 <Karen> ...to see what the web and publishing are lacking
16:32:46 <Karen> ...maybe we need to refine this a bit
16:32:55 <Karen> ...to assess where our previous actions have not worked as well as hoped
16:33:03 <Karen> ...and where we got caught up in vision before needs
16:33:15 <Karen> ...I would hope we would have more clear documentation of business needs
16:33:31 <Karen> ...We are all aware of business needs, but if they are not documented, we cannot actually work on them
16:33:33 <Karen> ack Dave
16:33:40 <Karen> Dave: a couple of things
16:33:43 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:33:48 <Karen> ...on the smaller scale, I think we need some clarity
16:33:55 <Avneesh> q+
16:34:00 <Karen> ...we need to figure out what we are talking about when we say 'web publications'
16:34:07 <Karen> ...there are already publications on the web
16:34:12 <Karen> ...Moby Dick as blog post
16:34:20 <Karen> ...read scholarly content online
16:34:37 <Karen> ...in some sense the problems of publications on the web are business problems, not technical problems
16:34:48 <Karen> ...careful not to solve business problems by creating new technologies
16:34:57 <Karen> ...I agree with Tzviya it would be good to have a higher level layer
16:35:02 <Karen> ...to answer questions of what our mission is
16:35:09 <Karen> ...what sort of world are we trying to get to
16:35:11 <Karen> ...and things
16:35:21 <Karen> ...the gaps in the web platform; what we want to do but cannot
16:35:30 <Karen> ...are those technical; can those problems be solved by W3C
16:35:34 <dauwhe> https://twitter.com/dauwhe/status/1149681148957745152
16:35:37 <Karen> ...what makes EPUB, EPUB
16:35:54 <Karen> ...posting one of my Twitter rants which touches on some of these points
16:36:03 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:36:04 <Karen> Luc: thank you; that has been ready by many people
16:36:19 <Karen> Avneesh: coming to same things but from different directions
16:36:34 <Karen> ...two questions I asked were our target audience, our target beneficiaries
16:36:41 <Karen> ...and what will compell them to come to this work
16:36:52 <Karen> ...if we do not have answers to these questions, then we are shooting in the dark
16:36:57 <Karen> ...it answers some questions
16:37:03 <Karen> ...EPUB3 has a short-term plan
16:37:11 <Karen> ...to push this ecosystem effectively
16:37:23 <Karen> ...Beyond this, in SC, it also indicates another thing
16:37:33 <Karen> ...is our target only IDPF audiences, or beyond?
16:37:38 <Karen> ...to reset our mindset about EPUB3
16:37:52 <Karen> ...when I saw the initial agenda in the publishing strategy document, it is highly focused on EPUB3
16:38:01 <Karen> ,...I would like to suggest we remove this anchor from our minds
16:38:07 <Karen> ...not everyone is from the EPUB world
16:38:12 <Karen> ...and they want solutions
16:38:19 <Karen> ...maybe how to capitalize on EPUB
16:38:32 <Karen> ...maybe the right question is what format are you using and what do you need
16:38:42 <Karen> ...maybe some distance from EPUB3, we will get new answers
16:38:50 <Karen> ...also George was talking about other docs
16:38:57 <Karen> ...why these cannot be on HTML page publications
16:39:05 <Karen> ...where we talk about the future
16:39:11 <garth> q?
16:39:17 <Karen> ...with a reset I think we can get to a solution in a better way
16:39:22 <Karen> ...maybe reset from EPUB3
16:39:26 <garth> q+
16:39:31 <Karen> .,..and see where we want to go collectively
16:39:33 <Karen> ack Garth
16:39:45 <Karen> Garth: i agree with much of what Avneesh said, but think we need to be careful
16:39:58 <Karen> ...the whole Publishing@W3C was initiated by a merger of the IDPF into W3C
16:40:07 <Karen> ...and EPUB was the lifeblood of the industry
16:40:15 <Karen> ...be careful not to be pejorative to EPUB
16:40:24 <Karen> ...it is an important animal to be nurtured going forward
16:40:29 <liisamk> +1 to feeding and nurturing EPUB
16:40:35 <Karen> ...we got to WP because we tried to make a clean break from EPUB
16:40:40 <Avneesh> q+
16:40:44 <Karen> ...think of EPUB as a fine sailing ship, not an anchor
16:40:46 <Karen> ack Avneesh
16:40:53 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:40:56 <Karen> Avneesh: Just to clarify, Garth
16:41:06 <Karen> ...what I am saying there is a strong constituency of IDPF members
16:41:20 <Karen> ...what i am saying is to look to a broader constituency beyond EPUB
16:41:31 <Karen> ...talk about future in web oriented world
16:41:36 <tzviya> q+
16:41:42 <Karen> ...another part of constituency is not totally satisfied with EPUB
16:41:47 <Karen> ...maybe scholarly is example
16:41:59 <Karen> ...these are people who can provide us some strong business cases
16:42:09 <Karen> ...who can help us to make publishing on the web more successful
16:42:12 <laudrain> ack tzviya
16:42:21 <Karen> Tzviya: I wanted to reiterate what Avneesh said
16:42:28 <Karen> ...we are not killing EPUB; it's strong and good
16:42:35 <Karen> ...but maybe consider what to add in the future
16:42:39 <Rachel> q+
16:42:41 <Karen> Luc: More comments from others?
16:42:43 <Karen> ack Rachel
16:42:55 <Karen> Rachel: going forward as we prepare for this meeting for next week
16:42:59 <Karen> ...a couple things to keep in mind
16:43:04 <Karen> ...make sure that we are collaborating
16:43:07 <Karen> ...in a single location
16:43:10 <Karen> ...in a single group
16:43:22 <Karen> ..to establish these objectives and keep our proposed agendas and details in mind
16:43:30 <Karen> ...keep these conversations moving foward
16:43:33 <liisamk> q+
16:43:44 <Karen> ...propose we try to keep all of this in the Google doc that Wendy had started
16:43:54 <Karen> ...keep all of that commentary and conversation together in one place
16:44:02 <Karen> ...Getting the conversation started
16:44:15 <Karen> ...next week is to start by talking about the things we all agree upon, what we know to be true
16:44:24 <laudrain> q?
16:44:30 <Karen> ...EPUB is not something that is going away, and not something we want to go away
16:44:39 <Karen> ...and some other truths we want to perpetuate as a group
16:44:55 <Karen> ...putting those out there in writing may help us to not revisit those conversations and lose time in going through them over and over again
16:45:06 <Karen> ...I will with Wendy's permission add a section to the agenda
16:45:12 <Karen> ...these are the things we know to be true
16:45:19 <laudrain> +1 to Rachel
16:45:23 <Karen> ...we can have that as our strong starting point going into the conversation
16:45:29 <Karen> ...I see a strong support on irc
16:45:31 <Karen> ack Liisa
16:45:46 <Karen> Liisa: I wanted to note that having this conversation here today
16:45:54 <Karen> ...was to help us in thinking about what these objectives are
16:46:02 <Karen> ...that document is not a public doc and will not be a public do
16:46:05 <Karen> c
16:46:14 <Karen> ...we will take solicitation of ideas
16:46:26 <Rachel> q+
16:46:27 <Karen> ...there is a tiny proprietary piece of SC business that we cannot share with everyone
16:46:32 <Karen> Luc: Thank you, Liisa
16:46:34 <Karen> ack Rachel
16:46:45 <Karen> Rachel: I definitely appreciate that and thank you for sharing that
16:46:59 <Karen> ...I was surprised to see PWG work may be adjourned until publishing sectors pushes reveal
16:47:05 <Karen> ...I was a bit panicky
16:47:28 <Karen> ...pushing a message that PWG might retire or stop working seemed like an extreme message to throw out in a public draft
16:47:29 <Karen> Luc: Ok
16:47:43 <Karen> ...It's not an affirmation, just a question
16:47:54 <Karen> ...I understand the @ is questioning the post charter
16:48:06 <Avneesh> better to say. Further work on PWG will continue after collecting strong business cases from industry
16:48:14 <Karen> ...I understand that PubWG charter will end; there is a big question for the working group
16:48:30 <Karen> ...what do you mean by mis-interpreting, Tzviya?
16:48:34 <Karen> Tzviya: Some of tweets
16:48:49 <Karen> ...when people see 'suspending' does not necessarily mean 'ending'
16:48:53 <liisamk> q+
16:48:59 <Karen> ...concerned that people think that we are ending the PubWG
16:49:10 <Karen> ...the charter will end, but not decisions have been made
16:49:16 <Karen> ...ending the charter is not under discussion
16:49:22 <Karen> ...let's be careful what we put in public
16:49:33 <Karen> ...tweet, 'since web publications is dead, here is my proposal'
16:49:37 <Karen> ...in the past week or so
16:49:42 <Karen> Luc: not just now; that is a big issue
16:49:45 <Karen> ack Liisa
16:49:49 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:50:02 <Karen> Liisa: Tzviya, that is a great lesson to take now and in our conversations next week
16:50:08 <Karen> ...it is easy to be misinterpreted
16:50:25 <Karen> ...one objective is to show on-going work to support publishing both on and off the web
16:50:27 <Karen> Luc: ok
16:50:37 <Karen> ...more comments from people who did not express their thoughts until now?
16:50:54 <Karen> ...I understand that there is a need for a higher level of something
16:50:57 <Karen> ...of objectives
16:51:09 <Karen> ...I don't know how and who could work on that for the meeting next week
16:51:22 <Karen> ...or it's something we try to extract from this draft of objectives?
16:51:26 <Karen> Dave: I can help work on it
16:51:42 <Karen> Rachel: I am happy to help as well since we need to shape an agenda
16:51:52 <Karen> Action: Dave and Rachel to work on agenda refinement
16:52:09 <Karen> Luc: Also speak about publishing industry, inside W3C, we are very few
16:52:12 <Karen> ...on a personal view
16:52:22 <Karen> ...I think it's very positive to see how many people are in the EPUB3 CG
16:52:33 <Karen> ...there were more than 250 people who have registered for this CG
16:52:42 <Karen> ...I understand they are not always there or on calls or irc
16:52:55 <Karen> ...but it's a huge group, which means people receive information, agendas on the mailing lists
16:53:08 <Karen> ...but by the way, other groups are not so populated with publishers
16:53:19 <Karen> ...we know it's difficult for publishing orgs to be full members of W3C
16:53:26 <Karen> ...after merger of IDPF and W3C
16:53:47 <Karen> ...we understood there was a TPI period of two years, but it's not being continued by many publishers
16:54:00 <Karen> ...even if we have @ we are not adding so many people
16:54:05 <Karen> ...the audience is not easy
16:54:15 <Karen> ...as co-chairs we think the PubBG can be a hub
16:54:30 <Karen> ...to collect news from publishing industry, to look at things being done without standards in the business
16:54:42 <Karen> ...some digital publications like web tunes
16:54:55 <laudrain> q?
16:54:59 <Karen> ...question of audience and target is not an easy one; I would like to push on that discussion
16:55:07 <Karen> ...I see no one on the queue
16:55:10 <wendyreid> s/tunes/toons/
16:55:28 <Karen> Luc: Thank you for your help and comments
16:55:50 <Karen> ...in the agenda we had one more technical point about metadata needs and best practices
16:55:55 <Karen> ...I don't think there is time
16:56:01 <Karen> Liisa: I think not
16:56:12 <Karen> Luc: Liisa, can you speak to that?
16:56:21 <Karen> Luc: we think the BG should work more efficiently
16:56:42 <Karen> ...with your help we should identify business cases and business issues and we should work on them until we get some kind of resolution
16:56:47 <Karen> ...we should work on a proposal basis
16:56:54 <Karen> ...one or more people work on these points
16:57:03 <Karen> ...bring proposals and then we have resolutoins
16:57:09 <Karen> ...and we explain these resolutions
16:57:19 <Karen> ...we think we should work more on a point by point basis
16:57:22 <Karen> ...as proposals
16:57:30 <Karen> ...this means we cannot have a call every week
16:57:35 <Karen> ...we would have two calls per month
16:57:43 <Karen> ...one for European and one for Asian times
16:57:59 <Karen> ...these people would agree to take these business points and have time to work onit
16:58:11 <Karen> ..on their own by discussions by calls outside the PubBG calls
16:58:16 <Karen> ...we would have two calls per month
16:58:22 <Karen> ...but have a list of business points that would be
16:58:27 <Karen> ....taken by one or two people
16:58:33 <Karen> ...and it could also be a month later
16:58:44 <Karen> ...could be a European or Asian business case
16:58:55 <Karen> ...if we don't agree, we have discussions, but in the end we have a resolution
16:58:57 <laudrain> q?
16:59:00 <Karen> ...that is the plan for the end of summer
16:59:04 <Karen> ...any comments or questions?
16:59:07 <Avneesh> q+
16:59:11 <Karen> ack Avneesh
16:59:16 <laudrain> ack Avneesh
16:59:28 <Karen> Avneesh: I think the business group has a very important role to play in W3C
16:59:36 <Karen> ...W3C does standards for web development
17:00:00 <Karen> ...where publishing has important role to explore business cases and put them in front of the technical community
17:00:04 <Karen> ...I like this plan
17:00:08 <Karen> Luc: Thank you, Avneesh
17:00:18 <Karen> ...We are at top of the hour
17:00:23 <Karen> ...thank you all for your contributions
17:00:27 <Karen> [adjourned]
17:00:52 <Karen> rrsagent, draft minutes v2
17:00:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/07/16-pbg-minutes.html Karen
17:01:35 <dauwhe> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:01:44 <dauwhe> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:02:21 <dauwhe> Karen: does v2 invoke the much fancier design? !!
17:04:55 <Karen> yes
17:06:35 <dauwhe> that's so cool!
17:07:39 <Karen> hope you like it!
17:37:27 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #pbg
17:52:45 <Karen> Karen has joined #pbg
18:05:35 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #pbg
19:17:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
19:19:37 <dauwhe> rrsagent, by
19:19:37 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'by', dauwhe.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:19:41 <dauwhe> rrsagent, bye
19:19:41 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2019/07/16-pbg-actions.rdf :
19:19:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Dave and Rachel to work on agenda refinement [1]
19:19:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2019/07/16-pbg-irc#T16-51-52